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Comments about ‘Readers' forum: Legislative prayer’

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Published: Friday, Jan. 13 2012 12:00 a.m. MST

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Esquire
Springville, UT

I don't think the concept of separation of Church and state is understood in Utah.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

If the letter writer wants to offer a prayer for the legislature, he can call the appropriate clerk and offer his services; otherwise, why should he decide for the Legislature who should pray?

As far as separation of Church and State, please tell us all, Esquire, how offering a prayer before each Supreme Court session, each US Congress session, or even each Utah State Legislature session violates the ACTUAL intend words of the 1st Amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

No matter what people "read into" those words, there is NO separation of Church and State - except in their own minds.

Lowonoil
Clearfield, UT

Utah politicians understand that the prayer is a necessary part of reassuring your collegues and constituents that you are a member of the proper faith, just as is the campaign postcard you send out showing you posing with your full quiver.

ugottabkidn
Sandy, UT

Ah Mr Richards, another one sided interpetation according totally out of context. I guess I should not comment because you are a Constituional scholar and attorney. There is no protection for the minority in your world.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'With roughly 40 percent of the state non-LDS, having 100 percent of opening session prayers offered by Mormon leaders may elicit frowns.' - Article

The majority dosen't care.

Because they continue to ignore that Utah is a theocracy...

**'Federal judge dismisses Summum suit against Pleasant Grove' - By Dennis Romboy - DSNews - 06/04/10

"A federal judge has dismissed a lawsuit against the city that claim it violated the establishment clause of the US consitution by allowing a Ten Commandments monument by rejecting one showing the the Salt Lake-based religious sects beliefs. The clause in the First Amendment prohibits government from adopting a national religion."

While at the SAME TIME, try to claim their religious views are being 'oppressed.'

You cannot be the victim AND the oppressor, at the same time.

You cannot FORCE legislature to pray (strongly encourage)...and then claim you 'religious freedom' is being removed from you.

Uncle Charles
Where freedom and liberty reign, utah

Ah ugottabkidn, another attack on someone without any facts to support the attack.

You have 3 more posts allowed. Use all of them to detail for us how what Mike said is taking what the 1st Amendments says out of context. The floor is yours. Convince us that you are correct. And please, you shouldn't use the phrase separation of church and state to make your argument since those words aren't in the Constitution, anywhere.

Again, the floor is yours.

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

Why not invite those of other faiths to offer prayers? I don't see any issue with that.

Esquire
Springville, UT

Wow, Uncle Charles, if you knew the Constitution and the judicial decisions that have interpreted it over the course of our history, you would know there are a lot of terms and concepts that we use, rely on and revere that are not specifically stated in the Constitution. Where are your facts? You, our friend Mike Richards and others may prefer government and church combined, but it violates the Constitution and our traditions in this country. And for you, Mike, don't distort the principle. This is about the legislative session that is always opened by leaders of one church, not a variety of faiths. I do not oppose opening the session with prayer, though my observations are that it is more a ceremony and the words are not taken to heart by those in attendance. This is about representation by other faiths as well.

Irony Guy
Bountiful, Utah

As an LDS person, I believe in my Doctrine and Covenants that says "it is unjust to mingle religious influence with government." Why don't my Republican co-religionists believe that?

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@Mike Richards
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

They sure have established the LDS as the official prayer service of the state legislature.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

Oh how the left loves to howl.

They first tell us that there must be a separation of Church and State and then they demand that we worship their god on their terms and that the State be instructed to make rules or laws concerning religion.

Do they understand the word, "irony"?

Do they understood the word, "hypocrite"?

If any poster wants to offer a prayer before a legislative session, just tell me when YOU want to pray and I will make the call for you.

This issue is not about separation, it is about control. They want to dictate how we pray and to whom we pray. The Constitution means nothing to them. They think that a judge has the right to overturn the Supreme Law of the Land to restrict the right of the people to worship God without Government intervention. They stand for everything contrary to the 1st Amendment and then they have the gall to tell us that "we just don't understand".

At another time, they would have been called, "king men", but that is politically incorrect in our day; but one thing is certain, they have no use for God. He hinders them.

joe5
South Jordan, UT

When I say I am offended by a TV show or a billboard or an adult store near a school, the lefties get all up in arms and tell me to quit trying to control their right to filth. I should just ignore it.

I would now like to return your own advice. If you are offended by a roadside cross or a prayer in the legislature, just ignore it.

Are you okay with that or does it offend your sense of hypocrisy?

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

The Real Maverick | 11:05 a.m. Jan. 13, 2012
Orem, UT
Why not invite those of other faiths to offer prayers? I don't see any issue with that.

====================

Say, I like that idea!

I'll ask several of my friends --
a Baptist, an Episcopalian, a Muslim, a Buhdahist, and a Wiccan.

Thanks Mike Richards for letting us know who and how to call to set that up!

In order to avoid the "establishment" of "A" Religion, you gotta have more than just one.

Either Everyone gets a chance, or no one gets the chance.
That's only fair.

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

I dont think that anyone is harmed by public prayer.

However,

Religious people need it and non-religious people view it as an unfair commercial advertisement, posted in a place where commercial advertising if prohibited.

I think the religious people create religious enemies by their insistence on special rules for themselves and the apparent war against the non-religious. Its debatable whether or not their actions help or hinder religion.

J Thompson
SPRINGVILLE, UT

re: LDS Liberal,

Let us know how your next recommend interview goes. Inquiring minds want to know.

Do you think you can thrash the Church because you hide behind a fictitious name? Is it easy to strut around in a pretend world where you hide behind anonymity? Try it in the real world where real men use their names.

If you believe in Satan, then worship him. If you believe in Mohamand, then worship him. The same goes for Buddha. But, if you worship the Son of God, then stop encouraging people to worship false gods.

While you're thinking about things, why not study what "an" means. You used the definite article "A". The correct usage is "an establishment". Although literacy has been abandoned by the left, most of us know the difference between "A" and "An", just as we know the difference between "the" and "an".

Ranting and using non-sequiturs may be amusing, but this is not the comedy section of the Deseret News.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'If you believe in Satan, then worship him. If you believe in Mohamand, then worship him. The same goes for Buddha. But, if you worship the Son of God, then stop encouraging people to worship false gods.' - J Thompson | 1:53 p.m. Jan. 13, 2012

So....every other religion should show tolerance...EXCEPT any Christian based faith??

This line of reasoning, is the problem with many forms of christianity.

While scripture cites 'put me before any other God' I don't think that reads...

'Attack, any other God.'

You can believe in God...and TOLERATE other beliefs!

Zero tolerance can only lead to violence.

Jihad
Crusades
Oaklahoma bombing
9/11

These are ALL examples of 'zero tolerance' in regards to something that should be...

personal.

i.e. if you are Christian and you must be FORCED to be tolerant of other people and beliefs...?

You are, neither.

one old man
Ogden, UT

Our legislators need all the prayers they can get. But it still probably won't do much good. They will still churn out the same old extremist nonsense.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

J Thompson | 1:53 p.m. Jan. 13, 2012
SPRINGVILLE, UT
re: LDS Liberal,

Let us know how your next recommend interview goes. Inquiring minds want to know.

Do you think you can thrash the Church because you hide behind a fictitious name?

If you believe in Satan, then worship him. If you believe in Mohamand, then worship him. The same goes for Buddha. But, if you worship the Son of God, then stop encouraging people to worship false gods.

====================

1. My "Interviews" [like everyone else's] are none of you business, They between me and my Bishops. But since you've asked; I've been consistantly "card carrying" for nearly 40 years.

2. By my inviting my Non-LDS friends and neighbors to pray in THEIR State Legislature (yes, they live here too) -- how does that make me "trashing" the LDS church?
This is a State Legislature issue -- NOT a Sacrament Meeting.

3. I "Invite" all to come unto Christ, and allow others to worship Who, Where or What they may.

I will fight for freedom of Worship - even opposing my fellow Latter-Day Saints who seek to deny others their rights.

Intolerance and Bigoty is NOT part of the Gospel.

joe5
South Jordan, UT

LDS Liberal: "Intolerance and Bigoty is NOT part of the Gospel."

I find it interesting for you to say that since I see a continual stream of intolerance from you toward your fellow saints. I've seldom seen so much judging, often based on stereotypes or prejudices you have in your own mind, from one person toward a group of people as you have shown toward members of the LDS church.

J Thompson
SPRINGVILLE, UT

Re: LDS Liberal,

Most of us who post know exactly what takes place inside the confines of the "interview". We know that that no one who "proclaims" what you proclaim everyday could pass those "interviews". Words such as "honesty" are part of those interviews. Can anyone who has proclaimed to the world that he is a disciple of Christ tell people to pray in the name of Buddha or Mohamed or someone else? Honesty doesn't come in "shades of gray". Honesty is an absolute. It is black or white.

You've advocating worshiping other gods, gods which have nothing to do with the religion that you profess.

You can hide behind your moniker, but you can't hide who you are - inside. That is the character that you develop each day of your life.

Read your posts. You seldom stand for the Church which you claim membership, but you are the first in line to tell people to thumb their noses at that Church.

To some of us, your act has become boring.

Prayer is between man and God. If you are unwilling to help mankind know which God rules, then you are left to worship the other "gods".

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