Conservative | 12:17 p.m. Jan. 11, 2012Cedar City, UT"Obama has stabilized the economy, which was in freefall 36 months
ago".Obama has added to the free fall and can't negotiate a U
The housing crash, stock markets, financial, etc. was a problem with integrity
and honesty from all parties, government, banks, builders, home owners, etc.
They got a good deal on the process. The Fannie and Mac people were part of
that along with GM, Chrysler, etc. Tax payers bailed those people out. The
presidents of those companies haven't been punished directly but they probably
should be. The government isn't exempt from problems with integrity and
honesty, even though a lot of their core values list those two items.
Governments don't collapse from just money problems. Money problems happen
because someone doesn't monitor the store. Utah is a conservative state but
people still take money as campaign pledges after, during or before a contract
was let. Greed and lack of integrity are related. People do odd things when
greed is involved. Pride and integrity are related and the financial problems
also come with integrity and honesty issues. Money doesn't just cause problems
as problems come with what people do with money. We spend lots of money on
security for the Internet, homes, banks, businesses, stealing from the
government, including the IRS. Those are integrity problems causing money
problems. Money can bring problems
JWB: You said "A nation with Integrity and Honesty and other such values
can continue to prosper. The problem in our country, whether politicians,
generals, business/financial leaders and owners, workers and other opted out of
those values by their own choice. Moral values are important for survival of a
people, nation, and humanity."I must disagree with your
assessment that our dilimma is caused by lack of integrity or honesty.
Certainly there are always those factors. But the housing crash and the stock
market crash and the crash of GM and Chrysler (and all their suppliers) was
caused by much larger forces, even worldwide forces. Otherwise our problems
would have been limited to our country.Europe experienced the same.
China, Brazil and India have actually stayed stable and have gained financially.
Because they are poorer and are climbing structurally.The only
evidence I see lingering is the prevalance of large new SUV's in our
neighborhoods, you know the $50,000 variety. These suggest some people's values
are about the appearance of success. Rather than stuffing their money into
savings, like we're counseled.But dishonesty isn't the root. Maybe
greed, pride or naitivity that the economy would boom forever.
A nation with Integrity and Honesty and other such values can continue to
prosper. The problem in our country, whether politicians, generals,
business/financial leaders and owners, workers and other opted out of those
values by their own choice. Moral values are important for survival of a
people, nation, and humanity. We have an opportunity to change some of that but
leaders and elected officials in government and the community must not bend our
value system. We are getting to a point where people don't trust government and
even our financial system. A lot of people are not involved in the political
process where they vote. Voting can make a difference, even when the media
takes advantage of the process. Some stations are doing a lot of what I call
PSAs pushing government entitlement programs with an edge for the current
President using station people. They will get people out to vote that are part
of the 47 percent that don't pay taxes that vote so the will of the people
potentially is eroded. Highly paid Pundits have an extreme ability to influence
politics and it has only just begun with the current administration's efforts to
campaign on our tab
There is no doubt the wealthy and powerful (like Romney) can create jobs. They
must in order to build their own wealth, just as Bain Capital did. And in the
process they destroy some jobs as well.There is no doubt Government
can create jobs. Look around Utah at all the city, county, Stae and Federal
workers. Not to mention teachers and school employees. All of these are paid
by taxpayers, through publicly-approved programs.But neither Bain
nor Government can change the patterns before us: Huge Chinese and Indian
populations, educated and knowledgeable, willing to work for our minimum wage.
They will be supplying our needs, rather than American workers. We
have entered a new era, one where our First World position is being challenged.
Neither Democrat nor Republican can change a tide like that.
In Massachusetts, he worked with people on both sides of the "fence"
or hall. In business, he had similar experiences as no man is an island. It
takes a lot of good people to make a successful government and business. In
government, even the President doesn't always get what he wants and needs for
the country to be better as some in Congress or even the Court thwarts the
President, good, bad and ugly. For 3 years, I have seen and felt our President
talking down to us as a people. He acts as if we don't know what to do for our
country. He doesn't realize that we have been doing good things for our country
for years and centuries. I still can't get his wife's words out of my mind,
that during the campaign in 2008 whe she said, "For the first time in my
adult lifetime, Im really proud of my country, and not just because Barack has
done well, but because I think people are hungry for change." That is sort
of the way I feel after her husband has done his wheeling and dealing for the
past 3 years with rotating White House doors
The media typew don't like Romney because he might beat Obama .. and also
because they would rather see mixed redults in the primaries to keep the
contests interesting and sell more newspapers. A clear favorite emerging early
on might not be good for the media but will be good for the country - so he can
unseat Obama and stop the deficit spending.
Thank goodness for the DN's process of allowing frank and open discussion. To
see the pundits/journalists/reports within the variety of media outlets have
never questioned or put forward any difficult questions to the President for 4
years. The press derides Governor Romney for his values, belief system, his
business practices and just about anything he believes in and has done. The
voters in Massachusetts elected him. The City of Salt Lake City, Utah was so
glad that he decided to be in the process to be the leader of their process for
the Olympics in 2002. He was outstanding and very capable to run an
international group of people from the many countries around the world. He
recruited not only numbers of people from the area as volunteers to help in the
Olympics and included many people that lived, came from and spoke the languages
of the multitude of countries. He is a blender of people with a variety of
nationalities, languagues, culture and motivated others to be involved in an
exceptional winter Olympics at many venues within a large geographical area. He
knows how to bring in exceptional people and will do so for our nation/people
Obama has stabilized the economy, which was in freefall 36 months ago. Part of
that process was infrastucture improvements, such as I-15 reconstruction in Utah
and Washington Counties. We have all benefitted from those public works
projects.In some states and sectors, the economy is beginning to
grow.I realize us Republicans (yes, I'm registered) can't
acknowledge Obama's achievements. But we should be willing to express the
truth.The truth is we're better off than 36 months ago.Another truth is the World has changed in 36 months. India and China are
overtaking us in energy demands (oil) and industrial production. No Bain
strategy will change those dynamics.
SammyYour position is noted. Genius (noted in your original post)
magnifies itself in capitalism. So does evil. It was the genius of Marx to
identify, analyze and convey the form of evil known as repression. To advocate
violent overthrow (Lenin) and repress human rights (Soviet flavor of communism)
is evil as well. There are, however, forms of socialism that thrive quite
nicely...even today. It has been argued that economic strength (GDP) and
quality of life (HDI) can not be simultaneously maximized. Countries with the
highest GDPs rank low (I'm talking about developed countries here) when it comes
to HDI. HDI, by the way, is human development index...a comparatively recent
metric for measuring quality of life.But I digress. The article is
about Romney. I don't believe his plan will work and I don't believe he cares
about the middle class. I believe his position on the poor is "let them
get on with and reduce the surplus population." I will not vote for him in
the general election. I think we can agree to disagree agreeably (Covey). I
respect your position and appreciate your debate to issues rather than resorting
to personal attacks
Peter, you said " If so, you are either one of these so called rich elite,
or you're on government dole."I am one of those who is better
off... my income/personal wealth has gone up - and I am not one th dole. But I
wonder how you figure that those on the government dole are better off? Do you
have anything that backs that statement up? You are obviously not
talking about those receiving social security as they have seen next to no cost
of living increases over the last three years.You aren't talking
about the long term unemployeed becuase they have had their benefits capped and
many of them the benefits expired.And your not talking about
medicare or medicaid people, because those funds have actually been cut.So what group of freeloading "on the dole" people are you
referring to that have it better off now?
I too found it a bit odd that people attacked Romney for...what appears to be
being too capitalist? I thought republicans like capitalism...
If Gingrich makes this sort of a charge then when Obama does it, Obama is going
to look like Gingrich. Go Gingrich!
I'm impressed with the quality of this analysis. Great article.
Ex-pat of Zion,True, we do not have a monarchy, but the methods used
were the same; those born with a silver spoon in their mouth are bad and
separate from us. Seriously...same message.Romney's plan will do a
good job to take away regulations that stand in the way of new small businesses.
His plan will also make companies better able to keep jobs in America instead of
going off-shore to find tax breaks. He knows what to do. He created a lot more
jobs than were cut but even those cut helps me see that he will have the courage
to cut the governmental fat for the future good of this nation.
Peter:I think mikey is better now than he was three years ago as obama has
extended unemployment to 99 weeks. now that is the hope and change libs were
SammyI agree with you about the striking number of parallels
regarding the February Revolution. But (if you believe Maslow), the
Bolsheviks...Lenin excluded...were attacking the monarchy and the provisional
government that followed for survival, NOT political ideology. The stressor was
participation in an unwarranted war and the relief sought was land. Lenin
exploited the doctrine of Marx to seize power that his successor (Stalin) forged
into the totalitarian regime that was the Soviet Union.Now the
glaring differences with history repeating itself here in the US. The
"provisional" government that replaced the monarchy was comprised, for
lack of a better term, of big business an finance. The peasants wanted an
agrarian existence which a small parcel of land could supply. The "means
of production"...owned by those who held provisional power...would starve
without the resources (locked up in the land) or the labor of the
"proletariat" to effect production.Fast forward to 2011.
Record foreclosures and depressed wages. Mothers committing murder (their own
children)/suicide in welfare offices because they were desperate. In what
direction is wealth flowing? Business discourages competition by creating
barriers to entry. Free enterprise? Hard work for very limited opportunity.
Out here in my part of the world, the consensus is now it is Romney's to loose.
His biggest struggle will be our neighboring state where his beleifs will
unfortunately play a role. The Carolina's also have been hit hard in the rural
areas by factory closing that began to cascade into a avalanche shortly after
its signing. They see his religion and connection to what is being positioned
as head of a corporate raider company as his biggest liabilities in rural parts
of these states - which also happen to be the most hard core conservative. So
those voters are a wild card. In urban areas, he does much better as these
areas have benefited largely from buyouts ( Bank of America, Well Fargo, etc).
It will be fun, but the Charley Brown charectorization? Hardly! He
is the now man to beat now on the Republican side. A long way to go, but he is
absolutely the front runner.
This will be my last post in this venue. I'm very disappointed in DN for their
censorship. My time could be spent more wisely elsewhere. The family of my uncle
who became a multimillionaire dismissed every negative comment about them as
deriving from jealousy of their wealth. Pee Wee Reece once said to Jackie
Robinson, in essence, that not every negative comment about him was because of
his race. Sometimes he was just plain nasty. I do not like Romney's attitude
that those who do not support the Republicans are just jealous or envious. His
idea of what made America great were those principles of laissez fare that
preceded Teddy Roosevelt. America became greater during the administrations of
Teddy Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, FDR and other Progressives or Liberals. The
decline of America is due to the moral degeneration and greed. No mighty Army
can save us from that.
Mike in Sandy, are you better off now than you were three years ago? If so, you
are either one of these so called rich elite, or you're on government dole.
Obama will put up a fight, but the educated class will not fall for his rhetoric
anymore. The cause of freedom will ever stand in this country, and only those
who believe in this cause will remain standing with it.
Mike-How do you know he doesn't have empathy? Stop the envy. Thou
shalt not covet.My opinion from the middle class- Go Mitt Go! And
when you win the presidency, do your "favorite thing" and shrink this
big bloated uneffective wasteful government. (I can think of more adjectives if
Mike in Sandy: See SammyB's post and consider how that turned out for the USSR.
Didn't they Charlie Brown "Blockhead"?How apporpos...Mitt speaks
in 4 to 6 word sentences, i.e;"The President is out of
ideas!""I believe in America".Know what
Mitt?Even if you are the GOP nominee, and I hope you ARE, you will never
unseat President Obama.The nation has no time for a rich aristocrat,
with no empathy for the common man.The only thing Mitt will do for the
common man is make him pay his taxes.
If the conservatives consolidated their efforts into one or two candidates,
Romney would be in serious trouble. Note also that Romney's percentage was
lower than most all recent GOP winners in NH. He may have won, but I see very
little enthusiasm. His dreams are coming true because the ultra-conservative
crowd is so fractured.As for those of you who see Romney was the guy
who will turn around the economy, tell me how. He says government should get
out of the way, so how is his leadership of the government going to turn around
the economy? If he is a Herbert Hoover, hands-off guy, type of guy, tell us.
If he more proactive, how does that square with his pronouncements that
government is not the solution? He really can't have it both ways.
SammyB: Thank you for your historical perspective! Sadly, too many of us don't
even know history (and therefore why it is important) so they can't learn from
I want a smart president. I want someone who can turn economically troubled
institutions around and get them back on solid ground. I want a president with
the courage to be fiercely loyal to his spouse. I want a family man who has
raised more than one child with the same wife, and had all of them turn out OK
to be my president. I want a president who can win people over with his smile,
and a handshake. I want a president who is organized, and who doesn't need Rev
Wright to coax him along. So why not Romney? Actually, he should do nicely.
For all of his liberal detractors above, Romney is leading polls at 26% of the
vote in SC and 36% in FL.Not bad considering there are 6 candidates
to choose from.Using Liberal Logic (no fit) you could say that over
64% of voters are against the other candidates in FL and over 74% are against
the other candidates in SC.:)
With careful manipulation, in the early 20th century, the Bolsheviks turned the
masses against anyone with wealth. Those who had a genius to create jobs and
become successful were turned into enemies. This is the same method
being used today in the US. The common man is good, and anyone who becomes
successful is evil and are incapable of understanding us.What this
country needs is a leader who knows how to trim the fat and put in motion a turn
around in economics. The best person for this is one who has a genius for doing
this. Romney has the track record. Let's not hate him because he is good at
leading, at turning around failing businesses, Olympics, and soon a nation.
Let's not be Bolsheviks.
@no fit in SGYou left out flip-flopping, social issues, and Romneycare.
There's a lot that's making conservatives not terribly fond of him. It'll be
interesting how he manages deep conservative South Carolina and closed-primary
Florida but a lot of it will depend on whether or not the Gingrich-Santorum fans
can pick one and run. Otherwise Romney could be pulling 35% wins the next two
Something still appears to be "not quite right". Numerous voters are
not sure about Mitt. There is reluctance to jump on his train.Is it
religion, silver spoon money, Bain mysteries(South America), Romney
finances(overseas accounts)?Why the doubt?
It means a little less when New Hampshire is home field advantage and Iowa was
won by 8 or -12 votes against someone who polled 1% in November. If the field
would condense then Romney will lose South Carolina but he's getting lucky that
Santorum and Gingrich haven't condensed to one yet.
"And yet, doubt persists as to whether Romney has the cards."What cards does the commander in chief have?Give both these guys
an IQ test and let's compare.How about what schools do with our
children? Give a high school standardized test to both Mitt and BO, for us to