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Published: Wednesday, Jan. 11 2012 12:00 a.m. MST

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Midvaliean
MIDVALE, UT

When there are laws that fall into a "grey" area (such as drug laws) that not everyone agrees one, you will have those who break "the law." But at what point to we say we have created to many laws in the interests of others, that now the government no longer holds the moral authority.
If we just stuck to the basics (dont' kill don't steal etc) I doubt that crime would ever be at a high.
Lets get rid of laws that are in the grey. I don't want a Nanny state, and if anyone says they do, I don't think they have thought of the consequences.

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Lest we forget, not all law enforcement officers wear uniforms.

The law enforcement officers that enforce the regulations, that protect our food, water, air, health, air travel, job safety and even those in the IRS are every bit as important to us as the traffic cop.

While not all jobs in the service of our society carry the same weight of personal risk, all have the unpleasant job of forcing reluctant people to be good.

And all of these jobs, even the traffic cop, are voluntary and often sought after for both money and personal aggrandizement.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Great!

Start by obeying the Speed Limits, and Stop Lights.

We should be a Free Society, with Self Governing people.
i.e., no need for Law Enforcement.

If you expect Government Officers to Enforce laws, you are aking for a Police State.

It all begins with self control.
Start with your driving.

Owl
Salt Lake City, UT

We are a democratic nation under law, not a police state. Disagree with the laws? Elect someone to change them, but don't act as a law unto yourself. That is anarchy. Our laws and enforcement officers are far from perfect. Perhaps someone who is perfect could bring us a better alternative.

VIDAR
Murray, UT

I wish that I could respect the police; unfortunately the conduct of some keeps getting in the way. And the failure for the police to police themselves and remove the bad ones; disappoints me even more. There are always going to be bad apples, but the police blue code ( a cop does not arrest, or turn in another officer) seems to me to protect them, this does not create respect for their profession. It makes the public feel; that police think they are above the law.
Police officers should conduct themselves with the highest degree of honor and honesty.
The police could improve their reputation by holding themselves to a higher moral code; any officer that violates the code or law, should be turned in, and shunned by other officers.
Police will receive a greater degree of respect, when they also follow the same traffic laws, they expect the public to obey.

Rifleman
Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: Midvaliean | 5:42 a.m. Jan. 11, 2012
"When there are laws that fall into a "grey" area (such as drug laws) that not everyone agrees one"

Whether or not you agree with specific laws our society has established is moot. You are free to try and get them changed but until you do police officers are empowered to enforce them. This tragic shooting in Ogden will only stiffen our resolve to enforce laws against illegal drug usage.

VIDAR
Murray, UT

Rifleman | 11:02 a.m. Jan. 11, 2012

In my opinion, the tragedy in Ogden has more to do with use letting down our vets, then drugs.
We send them to war, they witness inhuman and immoral things, when they come back, we need to take better care of them; both physically and mentally.

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

LDS Liberal.

We live in a police state, nation, world.

Every organized group of human beings has rules. Rules without enforcement are not real rules, not everyone will abide by them.

Enforcement requires consequences

ugottabkidn
Sandy, UT

Thanks Janice for the insight. I will try to curtail my lawlessness. After all, laws are made for you and me and not for those that wrote them. One other point, before you draw and quarter the perp in the Ogden case, try to have a fair trial and give him his day in court. The preceeding is for the Prosecuter since nothing is ever black and white.

Midvaliean
MIDVALE, UT

@Rifleman:

There are a LOT of "grey area" laws. Anytime a special intrest group gets a law passed its going to be something that helps one group but hurts another.
You say
"This tragic shooting in Ogden will only stiffen our resolve to enforce laws against illegal drug usage."
To that I say lets stop beating the dead horse. Our surrounding neighbor states all recognize the futility in criminalizing all marijuana. So does a lot of the nation. We will all never agree on this, but that is in fact the point. It is a grey moral issue that is disagreed on, so government should NOT be legislating it. If the government didn't legislate morality out society would be a lot happier.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

VIDAR | 11:24 a.m. Jan. 11, 2012
Murray, UT
Rifleman | 11:02 a.m. Jan. 11, 2012

In my opinion, the tragedy in Ogden has more to do with use letting down our vets, then drugs.
.
.
Agreed. WWI, WWII, Vietnam, all vets then suffered PTSD (called Shell-shock back in those days) and turned to whatever they could to self-medicate. Some were legal, most were not. I remember Walter Conkite reporting Vietnam vets and their ruined lives of guns, drugs, alcohol and anti-establishment. Society did not treat them very well.

==============

Ultra Bob | 11:39 a.m. Jan. 11, 2012
Cottonwood Heights, UT
LDS Liberal.

We live in a police state, nation, world.
.
.
.
Agreed.
I just think enforcing laws that kill 400 innocent people each and every year (speeding) should be a higher priorty than sending in 6 armed cops in the middle of the night to bust a punk pothead.

And if prople would simply obey the laws themselves, we (as a Society) wouldn't have to turn to or depend on law enforcement to do it for us.

Drive 65, and don't be a hypocrite, hit the brakes and obey only when "Big Brother" is watching.

casual observer
Salt Lake City, UT

Shell shock, PTSD or battle fatigue are seldom manifest in those who have not been in harms way. The shooters service record would make it difficult to equate his time in the military with killing a police officer. He had personal problems, but don't blame a desk job in the military for the inability to distinguish right from wrong before you blame cannabinoids.

Fitz
Murray, UT

This letter is cute but, ideological and naive. What happened in Ogden last week was tragic. What happened in Washington County to the Cardalls was even more so. I do not trust law enforcement today. When I was a kid, I was told that a cop is your friend. Today some of the biggest bullies on the street wear a badge and carry a gun. I worked with law enforcement for many years. Some of the cops are diligent and conscientious, but there are many that believe there badges make them judge, jury and executioner. Before I can get on board of giving law enforcement the respect this letter suggests, law enforcement needs to relearn how to respect the public.

one old man
Ogden, UT

Everyone needs to remember that this man was not a combat vet. I fail to understand how he could have come to have PTSD from his work far from any combat.

The real question is how can we finally find the national courage and wisdom necessary to find reasonable limits on possession of high-powered, high-capacity weapons. Why do we continue to completely ignore the first phrase of the Second Amendment?

There was another tragic funeral in Washington state today where a young mother -- a national park ranger -- was buried after having been killed by a man who bore remarkable resemblance to the Ogden shooter.

There HAVE to be reasonable balances out there. But because we kowtow to extremists like Wayne LaPierre of the NRA, our Congressional "leaders" are afraid to even try.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

Respect, but not enable, ignore or over empower.

VIDAR
Murray, UT

casual observer | 1:59 p.m. Jan. 11, 2012
one old man | 6:58 p.m. Jan. 11, 2012

What I know is he is a returned veteran. whether he served in the field, or in a support position, does not matter to me; he still served our country, and went to war; we still need to take better care of our returning vets: both physically and mentally. It seems this man was having a crisis.
What he did in iraq and afganistan; I do not know for sure; And no one else does either. It is nieve to think the military reports everything the troops do.
There is no way for you to know for sure what he did in the war. Many things are classified.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

' I fail to understand how he could have come to have PTSD from his work far from any combat.' - one old man | 6:58 p.m. Jan. 11, 2012

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PTSD is not, restrictive to military combat, overseas.

Police, in my opinion, have MORE restrictions placed upon them because they often are authorized to use violent and sometimes leathal force...

but are sometimes punished for it, when this force is used in regards to American citizens.

It is a hard balance. And one I do not envy.

I agree with majority of posters here. Respect police, but keep in mind, they ARE THERE, to enforce the laws. Even the one's we disagree with.

They are NOT there, to CHANGE, the laws. That, is up to our lawmakers.

This may sound strange, but I also do not support blindly following the law. Civil disobedience has it's place.

My examples are:

Rosa Parks.

Trooper55
Williams, AZ

I am a retired Law Enforcement Officer from the south, and I agree with this letter that was written. I furture believe that alot of the law enforcement officers are being held to higher standard then what alot of you believe. I was there to enforce the laws that were on the books and I was also Internal Affairs and had the job of policing the officers and they don't get away with as much as some people think, not were I was.

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