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Mike Sorensen: BYU, Utah only teams representing for the West in bowl games

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  • Proud Ute ,
    Jan. 4, 2012 6:47 p.m.

    #1 Most undeserving "National Champion" BYU, 1984

    Give the Cougars credit for going undefeated because there is not much else they did in 1984 to deserve national championship consideration. Several teams since, like Boise State in 2006, Utah in 2004, and Tulane in 1998, have gone undefeated only to miss out on any serious national title consideration.

    The Cougars defeated only one bowl team during the regular season (Air Force), and did not play anyone who finished the season ranked in the top 20. BYU's most impressive road win was at Pittsburgh, who finished the season 3-7-1.

    Lavell Edwards' squad clinched the national championship by playing in the Holiday Bowl against a 6-5 Michigan team, easily Bo Schembechler's worst squad in his 21 years in Ann Arbor. It is still the only Michigan team to finish without a winning record since 1967.

    Also, the Holiday Bowl has not played host to another game with national title implications before or since 1984.

    The AP probably should've awarded their No. 1 ranking to Washington, a team that went 11-1 and won the Orange Bowl over No. 2 Oklahoma. Instead, the Huskies finished second in the final poll behind a BYU team that had not truly been tested all season.

  • sportsfanforlife salt lake city, UT
    Jan. 4, 2012 6:13 p.m.

    @duckhunter "The 1944 NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Tournament involved 8 schools playing in single-elimination play to determine the national champion of men's NCAA Division I college basketball. It began on March 24, 1944, and ended with the championship game on March 28 in New York City. A total of 9 games were played, including a third place game in each region.

    Utah, coached by Vadal Peterson, won the national title with a 42-40 victory in the final game over Dartmouth, coached by Earl Brown. Arnie Ferrin of Utah was named the tournament's Most Outstanding Player. Utah became the first team to play in both the NIT and NCAA tournament in the same season. Utah was given a second chance to play in the NCAA Tournament after an accident injured the University of Arkansas team"

    hmm thats weird all i did was type 1944 nat. champ and utahs name continuously came up with no mention of army ever. hmmmm weird

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 4, 2012 6:09 p.m.

    "How classy of you to denigrate Apo's accomplishments."

    I never denigrated any player's accomplishments, in fact I said "This is no discredit to Apo, I think he's a fine receiver." I already told you what I was challenging, and that was your denied, but very obvious bias. He may very well end up becoming a pro, and I'd be happy for him, but so many of your claims are exaggerated and unrealistic they make you appear to have no sound reasoning. I think you're better than that, and think you should show it.

  • sportsfanforlife salt lake city, UT
    Jan. 4, 2012 5:52 p.m.

    @duckhunter hahahha once again made yourself look foolish. just cause it says honorable mention does not make you a freshman all-american if you did not make the first or second team YOU DIDNT MAKE IT! point blank period, end of story. keep dreamin

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Jan. 4, 2012 2:37 p.m.

    @out of balance

    "The fact is this, Utah is recognized as the 1944 National Champion in basketball"

    No they aren't. Army is. utah is the 1944 ncaa tournament champion. Not the same thing.

  • JustTheTruthMan bountiful, ut
    Jan. 4, 2012 10:57 a.m.

    Just because the tournament of roses is the oldest doesn't mean it is the best..... So, you can continue being the grand daddy of them all facing off the sisters of the BCS elite housed in the SEC.

  • Jake2010 bountiful, ut
    Jan. 4, 2012 10:55 a.m.

    While losing the drum and feather please also change the name from Utes to something a lot more palate pleasing.... There ain't many Eagles in the college ranks and I think the University of Utah Eagles would be a lot more pleasing to the eyes ears and tongue than Utes..... Plus, it would be politically correct until all the people on earth are dead.... Now, as for USC in the bowl picture.... Had USC been in the bowl games would that not have placed the should be Eagles in the Vegas bowl again? Yes, I think the Utes can thank their lucky stars that their first season, the way it turned out once the games were played, came during a probation year for the Trojans... The elite of the conference until proven otherwise. For if it had been as 2012 will be for the whacky 12 the bowl picture would look a lot different.... USC might have even been ranked higher and in better than the rose bowl.

  • I AM THE BALANCE Syracuse, UT
    Jan. 4, 2012 10:55 a.m.

    Duhky,

    Feel free to place an "*" next to the University of Utah's National Championship, it may help "balance" your hatred and envy. The fact is this, Utah is recognized as the 1944 National Champion in basketball just as byu is recognized as the 1984 National Champion in football. You can't change the facts, they both are in the record books as the NC.

    Feel free to search the web to help support your lame attempts at tearing the University of Utah down but at the end of the day, Utah is still champions in 1944 and byu, dispite playing the #7 team from the Big 10 in a mid-tier bowl game, is still the champion in 1984.

    Remember, I am the balance.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Jan. 4, 2012 9:56 a.m.

    @mlh

    "Nothing like being "honorable mention", it's kind of like "other's receiving votes"."

    I cannot beleive that a grown man would sit at a computer and try to run down the accomplishment of a young athlete. Nobody from the BYU side is trying to pound it down your throat they are just stating facts.

    You guys really are a classy bunch of "fans".

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Jan. 4, 2012 9:51 a.m.

    @stgtoslc

    How classy of you to denigrate Apo's accomplishments. You see "All American" means "All American" regardless of whether it is 1st team, 2nd team, or honorable mention. All I said was Apo was named freshman All American. That's it. That would certainly equate to possible NFL talent. But hey if it makes you feel better to run the kid down for it then have at it. Maybe you could head on down to Provo and stand across the street, a safe distance, and yell:

    "Hey Apo! All you are is Honorable Mention All American! Everyone knows that isn't even an honor! Everyone knows if you aren't 1st team then you aren't anything!"

    That would be an even classier utah "fan" thing to do. Let us know how it goes.

  • crowntown1 Corona, CA
    Jan. 4, 2012 9:19 a.m.

    If you BELONG to a conference that's motto is "Conference of Champions" then yes! you can say you belong in the Conf. of Champions.

  • 2BCSWINS West of I15, UT
    Jan. 4, 2012 9:12 a.m.

    @DUCKY

    No matter what you try to spin the U still dominated the Y by 44 on their home field. The U has still won 7 of the last 10, the U still has two undefeated seasons and two BCS bowl wins in the last 7 years. The U still has a far better bowl record then the Y. You still haven't played a down of football in your life.

    How was the bowl game? Did you thank your parents for taking you?

  • BYUalum South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 9:05 p.m.

    It's nice to see Duck Hunter on the attack for all of us BYU Cougar fans.

    One, two, punch! One, two, punch!

    Go Cougars!

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 4:38 p.m.

    Thanks for clarifying. Honorable mention freshman all-american is not quite the same as a freshman all-american, so sorry for my confusion. Typically when someone tells me of someone being named a freshman all-american, I think of them being widely considered as one of the top two freshman players at their position in the country, such as Utah safety Eric Rowe, not one out of 20 other individuals who are considered somewhere on the same level behind 4 other freshmen at their position in the country. My mistake.

    So when we say that a certain team is "loaded with NFL talent," and we use an honorable mention freshman all-american to try and support that, who appears to have a tinted and myopic viewpoint? Your opinion is valued about on the same level as Naval Vet's, and only slightly higher than hedgehog or Chris B's, that's not what I consider "balance."

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 3:45 p.m.

    @mlh

    Thank you for comfirming every single thing I wrote. You are completely incapable of seeing the things naval lint, hedgehog, failstorm, howie s, christina b, or any of the other utah "fans" for what they are. You simply see me. Let me tell you something, that means I am the balance. I am one to their many. But like all myopic utah "fans" you only see me.

    I love that.

    LOL!

  • MLH SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 1:18 p.m.

    @Duckhunter

    Nothing like being "honarable mention", it's kind of like "others recieving votes".

    You tell me that you are the balance, you are as blue as they get. I cannot believe that a grown man would sit at his computer and argue who was NC in 1944. Nobody from the U side is trying to pound it down your throat they are just stating fact just like you guys can about 1984 football team. It wasn't the best team in the land but it's a done deal you guys were NC in 1984.

    Dude, you are not the balance and far from it, there is no one that comments more than you and your comments are always one sided that is not balance.

    "When you can look outside of your insular and myopic crimson colored viewpoint then we can begin to have more constructive and civil discussions".

    Insert (blue) to the statement you made. Because there is nobody on this rag that does it as good as you. blue blue blue

    And by the way the U of U offically changed it's colors- RED, WHITE, BLACK no more crimson.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 10:41 a.m.

    @StGtoLC

    Rockwell has now told you multiple times who was college basketball national champion in 1944 and who the entity was that decided it. It is a matter of historical record despite your personal refusal to accept it. If you cannot accept what was considered official at the time then there is nothing any of us can do for you. It simply is what it is. Learn to live with it.

    As far as Apo is concerned,

    College Football News, which is FOX Sports/Scout.com has Apo as honorable mention freshman All American.

    Google is your friend.

  • niners SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 10:39 a.m.

    Also, duckhunter

    Go to the Utah basketball home page on ESPN and look who ESPN recognizes as the 1944 national champion. Yes, I do find ESPN a more credible source than you...

  • niners SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 10:22 a.m.

    duckhunter

    If you are a true utah fan then fine. But that is a rare breed indeed. They do exist. Several of them even post here. But most of those that claim to be on here are not. They are utah "fans".

    ======

    And who are you to tell somebody they are not a "fan" of any team?? If for some crazy reason you decided to be a Utah fan tomorrow, there is nothing anyone could do about that. You would be a Utah fan. I guess Duckhunter lives in a place where someone else gets to dictate who is a fan of what team.
    Welcome to the USA Duckhunter, we have a choice here.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 10:21 a.m.

    @mlh

    So when I point out the fallacies and inconsistences in utah "fans" statements and arguments it is hate, but when utah "fans" make similar arguments against BYU fans it passes without statement from you. I have told you guys many times I am the balance. When you can look outside of your insular and myopic crimson colored viewpoint then we can begin to have more constructive and civil discussions. But just as long as all you can see is "hate" from one side and ignore what comes from your own then this will continue. Remember I am the balance.

  • alternate Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 8:19 a.m.

    Children, children, you are arguing about stuff that happened before most of you were even born!! Silliness!!

    The football season is over. The Utah schools had good and bad moments, overall good seasons, and exciting bowl games, but know what, it is over now. It's time to move on. Time to start saving money for next year's tickets.

    Time to get excited about basketball. We have our teams to support. Some better than others, but none the less we still should support our schools. Win or lose the areas should be packed each game. If not, then all the crowing about is just that crowing. You are not Utah fans or BYU fans, you are football fans. Shouldn't wear red or blue if you won't support all the teams at your school.

    If you must "talk big and strong" try supporting gymnastics. Utah has a greate team and Utah State and BYU are pretty good. Another great eveing can be had in Provo watching men's volleyball. The volleycats?? should give their fans much to cheer about this season.

    So children, stop it, be true fans, not a one sport fan who disappears every New Year's day.

  • JapanCougar Apo, AP
    Jan. 3, 2012 6:30 a.m.

    @Ute 66
    "They had a term for the football National Championship in those days, namely, the "Mythical" National Championship, because that's what it is. As long as there is no playoff in college football, it is more of a beauty pageant than a championship. That takes nothing away from the 1984 Cougars, but the 2008 Utes accomplished just as much. They,like the 1984 Cougars, won every game on their schedule,and like the 1984 Cougars, they were the only undefeated team in the nation. On the field, they were every bit as good as the '84 Cougars."

    This is an interesting, yet very irrelevant argument.
    Using your logic, you could say that the Utah Jazz won an NBA Championship because their 1997 team was better than then 1995 Rockets (the Jazz had the better record and a much higher seed.) Perhaps Jack Nicklaus would have been 2nd fiddle to Tiger Woods. Probably any NFL team today would have beaten the first 20 NFL champions head to head.

    Regardless, BYU won the 1984 NCAA Championship with an excellent team (who, I believe, would have beaten your 2008 Utes........irrelevant, nonetheless.)

  • MLH SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 11:55 p.m.

    @Duckhunter

    as a national championship for their conference then it puts the legitimacy all of those other 442 "national championships" in doubt.

    I'm sure coach Wooden, would not agree with you logic. Dude you're scaring the heck out of all these people. The past is the past let everyone rest in peace. Somebody brings up our 2008 football team, and every byu fan follows you by bringing up our 1944 BB team. NO NC, give it up already. Most of us Ute fans wern't around in 1944, we have a banner in the JMC that says 1944 NCAA Champions our history is what we have to go by. Have you ever read anything about that 1944 team, one of the stars was a Japanese American can you just emagine what those kids had to go through in 1944. Every single one of them served either before or after basketball. Give it a break, I personally will never say anything about that 1984 FB Team. It's all a part of our history being Utahns. I cannot believe the hate you have, and how you always need the final word.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 11:47 p.m.

    Rockwell, if we're talking about how ridiculous the tournaments were in those days, the Helms Foundation is every bit as ridiculous, if not more. It was started in 1936 to name the number one team since there was no tournament, and then retroactively named champions back to 1901. Yes, Army was named number one by Helms, but they didn't play any tournament, which is why they themselves do not claim it as a national championship. If they did choose to, I wouldn't blame them or dispute it, they had an undefeated season. The NCAA, however, recognizes Utah as the national champion because they played in and won the tournament, and there is also no disputing that, regardless of the events surrounding them getting there.

  • MLH SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 11:19 p.m.

    @Lonestarrunner

    Thanks, I really didn't know-good luck this year

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Jan. 2, 2012 10:40 p.m.

    StGtoSLC

    Google: Helms Athletic Foundation National Champions

    and then check the team listed as the national basketball champion for 1944

    btw, it's poor logic to claim a basketball championship for beating the NIT champion, when you were beaten soundly in the opening round of the same tournament; sorry, consulation bracket championships are meaningless.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 10:16 p.m.

    BYUalum, his article is in reference to games played between western teams and non-western teams. A western team was going to win that game either way, so it's pointless to bring up. And Boise didn't play Utah or BYU this year, so you make no sense.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 9:53 p.m.

    Duckhunter, I'm failing to find any source to your claim of Army's 1944 national championship. Their own media brochure recognizes it as their only undefeated season (15-0 with no postseason tournament), but makes no mention of being named national champions. It's much easier to find every source that states Utah was the national champion that year, however.

    I also failed to find any sources backing up your claim a week or two ago that Apo was named a Freshman All-American. Every source I've found states that Sammy Watkins from Clemson and Marqise Lee from USC were. This is no discredit to Apo, I think he's a fine receiver, but he's nowhere near the level of Watkins or Lee. My point is that just because Duckhunter says it doesn't make it so. Hope you had fun in Dallas, the game was exciting enough at least.

  • BYUalum South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 9:16 p.m.

    To: Mike (Ute) Sorenson:

    I'm happy you included BYU as well as Utah in your article. Good of you!

    To tap your memory, Boise State is in the west. Your concluding statement left them out. FYI, Boise State trounced both the Utes and BYU, so they should have been placed at the front of your list of winners in the west. Boise State, BYU, Utah, and now Oregon. Please study the sports' history books before you write your blog.

    Go Cougars!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 8:28 p.m.

    @bleed crimson

    Uh....no they don't. If they weren't declared national champions by the entities that made that decision then how are they national champions?

    I can see you're very desperate for it to be the case but it just isn't. Sorry.

  • Bleed Crimson Sandy, Utah
    Jan. 2, 2012 7:47 p.m.

    @ Rockwell

    Utah ended up beating the NIT Champion St. John's 3 days after winning the NCAA tournament in Madison Square Garden 1944.

    Utah won the NIT in 1947 so the Utes have a National Championship in basketball no matter how much you don't want them to have one.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 7:38 p.m.

    @ute66

    If you are a true utah fan then fine. But that is a rare breed indeed. They do exist. Several of them even post here. But most of those that claim to be on here are not. They are utah "fans".

    @bleed crimson

    It is neither. In thse days winning the tournaments was not automatically a declaration of winning the National Championship. Simply do a little research and you will see that utah is not the National Champions in either of those years. Yes in 1944 it was Army, declared by the entities that awarded it in those days as National Champions.

    I have never declared either of BYU's NIT championship teams to be National Champions either although in the case of one of them they were declared National Chmapions by one of the organizations that voted for that distinction at that time.

    And if the pac12 is now claiming a non existant national championship by a team that wasn't in their conference and wasn't even declared national champions as a national championship for their conference then it puts the legitimacy all of those other 442 "national championships" in doubt.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Jan. 2, 2012 7:26 p.m.

    Bleed Crimson

    Utah's 1944 NCAA tournament championship doesn't count as a national championship because the Helms Foundation named undefeated Army (15-0) rather than four-loss Utah (22-4) as the 1944 National Champion.

    The Helms Foundation named national champions from 1901 until 1982.

    From 1939, when the NCAA Tournament started, the Helms and NCAA Division I champions were the same, EXCEPT for 1939-40-44-54 when Oregon, Indiana, Utah, and La Salle respectively won the NCAA tournament.

    Utah only won three legimate college games against two teams in 1944:

    Idaho State 54-43
    @Colorado College 48-34
    @Idaho State 52-40

    and LOST just as many pickup games:

    Fort Warren L 59-61
    Salt Lake Air Base L 39-54
    Dow Chemical L 36-46

    Utah, by its own actions in accepting an invitation to the NIT instead of to the NCAA demonstrated which tournament even the Utes considered the more prestigious tournament of the day. Utah lost to Kentucky in the opening round of the NIT and only played in the NCAA because the NCAA couldn't find another team to fill in for Arkansas after their team bus crashed.

  • Bleed Crimson Sandy, Utah
    Jan. 2, 2012 5:25 p.m.

    @ Duckhunter

    "That is great advice. To bad for you that you don't follow it".

    "utah has 1 men's basketball National Title."

    I have one for you Duckhunter, if our 1944 NCAA Men's basketball National Championship doesn't count because it wasn't the premier tournament back in the day, then our 1947 NIT National Championship does count because the NIT was the premier tournament back then. Which is Duckhunter? Either way, Utah has a men's basketball National Championship and the Pac-12 recognizes it as one of their 442 National Championships.

  • Bleed Crimson Sandy, Utah
    Jan. 2, 2012 5:24 p.m.

    @ Duckhunter

    "That is great advice. To bad for you that you don't follow it".

    "utah has 1 men's basketball National Title."

    I have one for you Duckhunter, if our 1944 NCAA Men's basketball National Championship doesn't count because it wasn't the premier tournament back in the day, then our 1947 NIT National Championship does count because the NIT was the premier tournament back then. Which is Duckhunter? Either way, Utah has a men's basketball National Championship and the Pac-12 recognizes it.

    I follow my own advice just fine. Our 1944 men's basketball national title has been included to the Pac-12's 442 total National Championships. Obviously the "Conference of Champions" recognize it as a legit National Championship.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    Jan. 2, 2012 5:02 p.m.

    Although I can't stand them, why are we leaving Boise State out?

  • Ute66 Centerville, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 4:49 p.m.

    To Duckhunter:

    You constantly refer to Utah fans as "fans". I am assuming that you don't think we are actually fans of our team and love our school. You are on here talking about hypocrisy, which is never a good idea, because you might be guilty of the same. I graduated from the University of Utah. I am proud of it. I am also an active Latter-Day Saint. I am proud of that as well. I think there are some really awful things said by fans on both sides of the rivalry. I don't excuse my fellow Utah fans who say some misguided things, and I don't appreciate some of the misguided things that BYU fans say, either. Utah won the NCAA tournament in 1944, and then beat the NIT champion, St. John's a few days later in New York. When posting on a previous article, you stated that Army won a National Championship in basketball in 1944. Not true. Army has only been to the postseason 8 times in its history, all to the NIT, with the earliest appearance being in 1961. It is true that BYU was voted the National Champion in football in 1984, and I acknowledge that. They had a term for the football National Championship in those days, namely, the "Mythical" National Championship, because that's what it is. As long as there is no playoff in college football, it is more of a beauty pageant than a championship. That takes nothing away from the 1984 Cougars, but the 2008 Utes accomplished just as much. They,like the 1984 Cougars, won every game on their schedule,and like the 1984 Cougars, they were the only undefeated team in the nation. On the field, they were every bit as good as the '84 Cougars. One final thought. It is OK to be a true Ute fan and a Latter-Day Saint. I count myself among thousands who do both, most notably the late Elder Joseph B. Wirthlin, who played for the Utes and traveled with the Utah football team near the end of his life. Are you going to call him a "fan", too, or do you think he was sincerely a fan? What do you say?

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 4:24 p.m.

    Oh and scott182 "BYU fans really get to" you because you are a utah "fan". Like all utah "fans" you aren't bothered in the least by the lame and classless utah "fans" and their comments. It's just the BYU fans comments that "really get to" you.

    I'll tell you what ought to "get to" you. Hypocrisy. That should "get to" you. But being a utah "fan" apparently makes it easy to overlook hypocrisy, and for that matter to engage in hypocrisy.

    Get back to us next time utah "fans" "get to" you. Then we can talk.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 3:12 p.m.

    @scott182

    So you denigrate BYU's undisputed, unanimous, College Football National Championship, while claiming how much some ski championships matter? LOL!

    Also the BCS had nothing to do with utah not winning the National Championship in 2004 or 2008. The voters in all of the other polls beside the BCS could have voted utah the National Champions if they had thought they were worthy of it. The AP voted USC the National Champions despite the BCS the previous year. What that means is that no one thought utah was worthy of being National Champions either of those years. No one.

    You claim you don't like the "smug" attitude of BYU fans yet here you are denigrating BYU's Football National Championship, trying to convince us of how great utah's skiing national championships are, and I'll give you that they are real national championships, and then trying to tell us utah would have won the national chapmionships in 2004 and 2008 when absolutely no one, not one voting arganization, agrees with you. They could have voted utah #1 if they wanted to. They didn't.

  • A1994 Centerville, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 3:01 p.m.

    Good job to both BYU and Utah. Wish USU could have eeked one out against Ohio. It is pretty telling that Utah is the ONLY PAC 12 team with a win so far. Credit Larry Scott for positioning his conference so well, but a few of those PAC 12 teams did not deserve a bowl game this year. With the exception of Oregon and USC (Stanford is kind of a flash in the pan) the PAC 12 isn't all that strong.

  • Duh west jordan, ut
    Jan. 2, 2012 3:00 p.m.

    @StGtoSLC

    Sure is good to have intelligent converstations, thanks.

  • Cougar Claws Lindon, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 2:19 p.m.

    Not to be antagonistic, but if you are just talking about football, the PAC-12 does not have the most national championships. As a conference they have 21 football national championships. Both the Big 10 and SEC have more with 31 and 36, respectively.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 1:26 p.m.

    runsrealfast, that game doesn't apply because a western team was going to win that game either way.

  • Canyontreker TAYLORSVILLE, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 1:22 p.m.

    The article is about Div 1 football. So, why did Harvard's record have to be included to discredit the PAC-12?

    When Utah wins a conference game the conference is weak. When the strength of the conference is defended, Utah is not really part of the conference. There is no more logic in this argument.

  • Dennis Harwich, MA
    Jan. 2, 2012 1:20 p.m.

    History in sports is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what happens now. Utes and Cougs won. Fabulous. Let the dead lie in peace.

  • runsrealfast POCATELLO, ID
    Jan. 2, 2012 1:11 p.m.

    hold on a second. Utah and BYU are west teams but Boise isn't? Shoot I must need a new map. My geography teacher was wrong!

  • scott182 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 1:07 p.m.

    I like both Utah and BYU, but it is just funny to me when people brag about BYU's 1984 title against a team with a .500 record. And for people who hate the BCS, Utah would have won the title in 2008 and possibly 2004 if there wasn't a BCS and would be far more deserving of it (especially in 2008). Utah's ski titles DO MATTER! You can't pick and chose which NCAA titles you acknowledge. I gotta say both teams are great teams but BYU fans really get to me sometimes (my friends and family aren't bad), what is with the smug attitude?

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 12:50 p.m.

    @bleed crimson

    "Always check your facts before you make a fool out of yourself."

    That is great advice. To bad for you that you don't follow it.

    "utah has 1 men's basketball National Title."

    No they don't. You cannot find that acknowledged anywhere in any capacity by any sanctioning body. utah as an ncaa tournament championship and it is a weak one at that. It is not a "National Title" by any measurement. In the future you should follow your own advice.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 12:46 p.m.

    @all of the utah "fans" reveling in the refracted glory of the other schools in the pac12. Over the last several months many of you that are now so quick to claim utah has somehow accomplished something because of the past accomplishments of the schools they are now in a conference with, have denigrated BYU's MWC and WAC dominance in all championships of all sports.

    Yes many of you exact utah "fans" currently bragging about "the conference of champions" as if utah has anything at all to do with it, have denigrated BYU's championships because they came in "other" sports. But now, and despite the fact utah contributed exactly none of those championships, you all claim the greatness of the PAC12 because they have won championships in thos other sports.

    Now I think all of those PAC12 championships are a great accomplishment, no matter the sport winning is the goal, but utah has contributed nothing to them and utah "fans" have denigrated them when BYU is the one winning championships in them.

    Yes you are hypocrites and no you have nothing to personally brag about.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 12:37 p.m.

    "When talking about football, lets leave it at that."
    I'm happy to do that, but when people continually mock the conference's moniker, I'm also happy to set them straight. Only 8 months til the start of the next season with some good in-state games to kick it off!

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 12:35 p.m.

    Bleed Crimson

    Get your facts straight.

    Utah won the 1944 NCAA tournament, but Army won the 1944 National Championship.

    Women's gymnastic has always been good, but it's been fifteen years since the Utes won a national championship and the Utes are now only the 2nd best team in their own conference.

    As for skiing, it is technically an NCAA sport, but when the only schools you have to compete against are Denver, Colorado, Vermont, Dartmouth, Wyoming, and New Mexico, winning the championship is little more than the equivalent of winning a MWC championship in rowing. Tiny Denver has won TWICE as many NCAA Skiing Championships as Utah.

    BYU has won national championships in Football, Track & Field, Golf, Cross-Country, and Volleyball.

  • manaen Buena Park, CA
    Jan. 2, 2012 12:31 p.m.

    Cut that by half: BYU does not represent the West; it's sponsored by a global organization and has fans around the world.

  • Duh west jordan, ut
    Jan. 2, 2012 12:28 p.m.

    StGtoSLC | 11:26 a.m. Jan. 2, 2012
    SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    "I think my criteria is pretty straightforward: as of the end of the 2010-2011 school year, the Pac-12 conference holds 442 team NCAA national titles.....These do not include football, as the NCAA does not take part in naming the national football champions"

    So I didn't do the research for the total championships, sounds good to me, good job PAC 12 in all other sports. However you make my point when you state these do not include football as the NCAA does not take part in naming the champion. So, again for this article if you are going to make a statement on a football article, I am going to assume it is about football, not all sports. But hey, whatever makes a Ute football fan feel good about themselves, feel free to do so. I mean I think Ute football is pretty good and glad to see that both BYU and Utah represented well in their respective games. When talking about football, lets leave it at that.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 12:20 p.m.

    MLH

    "Several NC-what in and what in this year are they going to win. I'm curious"

    National Championships this Century

    BYU Mens' Volleyball - 2001 and 2004

    BYU Mens' Volleyball is ranked #1 in this season's preseason polls

  • Bleed Crimson Sandy, Utah
    Jan. 2, 2012 12:08 p.m.

    @ Swoopy

    "There are more sports than just football. "Conference of Champions" includes all sports, not just football.

    And Utah hasn't won a national championship in any sport since last century. So what exactly is Utah contributing to the 'Conference of Champions'?"

    Utah is contributing 21 National Championships to the Pac-12. Which is more than half of our fellow conference members.

    Utah has 10 gymnastics National Titles.
    Utah has 10 Skiing National Titles (Yes those count because skiing is an NCAA sponsored sport)
    Utah has 1 men's basketball National Title.

    Your comment about us not winning a title since last century is ludicrous. Only a jealous fool has to use selective stats to favor your argument.

    Always check your facts before you make a fool out of yourself.

  • News For U Sandy, Utah
    Jan. 2, 2012 11:49 a.m.

    @ Duh

    "I know that as well but this article is about football, not all sports".

    Then why are you even discrediting our "Conference of Champions" title to only football? That's what you said at 10:47 am.

    "Unfortunately I don't have the time to research all sports related championships but I will bet that the PAC 12 doesn't lead in all sports either".

    Actually you are wrong! The Pac-12 leads all conferences in National Championships. The Pac-12 has 442 total National Championships. The next closest conference is the Big Ten with 258 National Championships. It is quite clear that the Pac-12 is a superior all-around conference and is given the name "Conference of Champions". It's not just about football!

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 11:26 a.m.

    Duh, I think my criteria is pretty straightforward: as of the end of the 2010-2011 school year, the Pac-12 conference holds 442 team NCAA national titles. I don't know what the number is up to now, but it is higher with Colorado winning national championships in men's and women's cross country, and I believe Stanford has won at least 1 this year. This is more than any other collegiate conference. These do not include football, as the NCAA does not take part in naming the national football champions, however, the conference claims 20 recognized national football championship teams, and that includes the vacated USC 2004 season.

  • Duh west jordan, ut
    Jan. 2, 2012 11:23 a.m.

    @Jared | 10:57 a.m. Jan. 2, 2012
    Average, SE

    Uh yeah Jared, I know that as well but this article is about football, not all sports. Unfortunately I don't have the time to research all sports related championships but I will bet that the PAC 12 doesn't lead in all sports either. It is just a slogan that the PAC 10 (at the time) came up with, nothing more. So using the criteria of current conferences and sticking to football, The BIG 10 has 25 championships, the SEC has 21 and the independents (who are recognized nationally as a conference) has 15, all thanks to Notre Dame. That leaves the PAC 12 with 15 (I missed CAL in 1920). The last time the PAC 12 won a national championship was in 2003. Before that 1991. And thanks to Colorado being added, 1990. Before that 1978 with USC.

  • MLH SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 11:18 a.m.

    @Duh

    Try looking on the internet and check your facts. As of today there is still more than football being played in the NCAA. In fact UCLA won championship this year in Volleyball.

    @Anti BCS

    Several NC-what in and what in this year are they going to win. I'm curious

    @Sports Fan

    Not another ten win season, Who's going to win the Presidential race next year? Your crystal ball would be more helpful predicting things like that.

    @Duh

    Are you twelve I just can't get over your statement-Way to go Harvard

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 11:17 a.m.

    Jared

    "There are more sports than just football. "Conference of Champions" includes all sports, not just football."

    And Utah hasn't won a national championship in any sport since last century. So what exactly is Utah contributing to the "Conference of Champions"?

    Skiing - that only a handful of schools in the entire even know about

    Women's Gymnastics - in which Utah will now play 2nd fiddle to UCLA which has won SIX national championships since Utah's last championship

    Basketball - and Utah's nearly 70-year-old championship in the 2nd tier tournament of the day

    Sorry to burst your crimson bubble, but Utah hasn't done anything this century to even be considered a contributing member of the so-called "conference of champions".

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    Jan. 2, 2012 11:06 a.m.

    StGtoSLC

    Since you pretend to know so much about college football history, who has won more concensus national championships (#1 AP and #1 Coaches)?

    BYU

    or

    the 11 teams in the "conference of champions" not named USC

    In reality, the "conference of champions" is really just the "conference of A champion".

    Spin away, but be sure to cite year and final ranking in both the AP and Coaches polls with your rebuttal.

  • Jared Average, SE
    Jan. 2, 2012 10:57 a.m.

    Re: Duh

    There are more sports than just football. "Conference of Champions" includes all sports, not just football.

  • Bleed Crimson Sandy, Utah
    Jan. 2, 2012 10:48 a.m.

    @ Striker

    Wow dude, you woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. Hatred is developed by jealousy and envy. Your spewing a lot of hatred! Commandment #10 says "Thou shalt not covet".

    I thought you Y fans claim that you stand for something higher. I guess you were wrong!

  • Duh west jordan, ut
    Jan. 2, 2012 10:47 a.m.

    StGtoSLC | 10:10 p.m. Jan. 1, 2012
    SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    "And do you know why the PAC-12 is called the "Conference of Champions"? It's because we have more national championships than any other conference"

    Before you tout your superiority, do you check your facts? Why don't you use the internet and get your facts straight. You have to go all the way back to the dawn of time to allow all of USC's championships to almost be a correct statement. Since we are going back to the dawn of time, than the IVY league has the most championships. That would be Yale with 17 championships, Princeton with 14 championships and Harvard with 8. The teams of the now PAC 12 altogether along with shared championships has 14 total with 10 of those from USC(because Reggie screwed it for one of them). Sure it was a long time ago but hey, thought you should know the REAL facts. So from what date are you counting? And yes I know they are no longer D1. So what? Do you want to come up with some better criteria for your statement?

  • Bleed Crimson Sandy, Utah
    Jan. 2, 2012 10:46 a.m.

    @ Striker

    Wow dude, you woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. Hatred is developed by jealousy and envy. Your spewing a lot of hatred! Commandment #10 says "Thou shalt not covet".

    I thought you Y fans claim that you stand for something higher. I guess you were wrong!

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 10:38 a.m.

    Canyontreker

    Technically, Utah may be "in the running" for a major bowl, but in reality, if the Utes couldn't win the pathetically weak PAC 12 South this year, they have no better chance of getting into a major bowl than Arizona, which has been in the PAC 10/12 more than 30 years and still hasn't played in the Rose Bowl.

    Despite what the red koolaid drinkers may believe, Utah will be lucky to ever have another 10-win season, let alone play in another major bowl.

  • Canyontreker TAYLORSVILLE, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 10:22 a.m.

    anti BCS
    "...the BCS championship game will be the only "BCS bowl" after 2013"

    This won't change the big bowls affiliations with the conferences. As much as I hate the BCS system, when they go away the elite 4 conferences will just squeeze the Big East and ACC out.

    Until a playoff is in place things will just get worse for college football.

    Luckily, Utah is still in the running for the major bowls either way.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 10:06 a.m.

    Good wins for the State. Too bad USU let is slip. Boise deserved another BCS bowl. Hopefully that state teams keep winning all their bowls.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    Jan. 2, 2012 9:59 a.m.

    GoRed

    Odds are probably better we'll call you first. Not that it matters much to either team this year. Whole lotta "wait till next year!" goin' on, for both teams.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 9:58 a.m.

    Sorry Razzle, Tulsa is third best in CUSA. Houston and Southern Miss are better. But still nice job to Utah's BYU's teams.

  • Canyontreker TAYLORSVILLE, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 9:55 a.m.

    anti BCS
    "...the BCS championship game will be the only "BCS bowl" after 2013"

    This won't change the big bowls affiliations with the conferences. As much as I hate the BCS system, when they go away the elite 4 conferences will just squeeze the Big East and ACC out.

    Until a playoff is in place things will just get worse for college football.

    Luckily, Utah is still in the running for the major bowls either way.

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 9:44 a.m.

    Utah and BYU both met their match...very close games. Congrats!

    Tulsa is the best team in Conf-USA, so this is a Big win for the West.

    Georgia Tech beat Clemson, Clemson is in the Orange Bowl. Utah's win is a Big win for the West.

    AZ State beat Utah and USC, a good team, but Boise State still deserved better.

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    Jan. 2, 2012 9:25 a.m.

    GoRed

    "...call us the first time BYU wins its BCS bowl game."

    Since the BCS championship game will be the only "BCS bowl" after 2013, Utah can also forget ever winning another "BCS bowl."

    It's funny how the new kids in the so-called "conference of champions" haven't won a national championship in any sport since last century, while BYU has already won several national championships this century and has a decent chance to win another national championship this year.

  • Cowboy Dude SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 9:11 a.m.

    Forget my comment above. I forgot the AF loss.

    Still, weird how the article split the East and West. Austin, Waco, Norman, Tulsa, and Stillwater would never consider themselves as the East.

    Congrats to Utah, BYU, AND Boise State!

  • OHBU Columbus, OH
    Jan. 2, 2012 8:51 a.m.

    I can assure you that nobody in the East, Midwest, or South cares about the West as a category of football teams. What an arbitrary grouping of teams to care about their bowl record. We care about the MWC record, the PAC, Big 12, Big Ten, SEC, Independents, etc. You could maybe argue that there's interest in how certain states do, as it could be seen as a reflection of the quality of recruiting talent there...hence the state of Utah's teams could be grouped together. But what does Air Force have to do with Cal's bowl performance?

  • GoRed WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 8:46 a.m.

    @sportsfan

    Don't worry, we will. And you can call us the first time BYU wins its BCS bowl game.

  • Cowboy Dude SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 8:44 a.m.

    Strange idea of what is East and West. However, the Mountain States are 2-1-1 in bowl games. USU and Boise State played in the same region so I give them a tie.

    Congrats to BYU, Utah, AND Boise State!

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 8:15 a.m.

    StGtoSLC

    Call us the first time Utah wins a national championship as a member of the "conference of champions".

  • DEW Cougars Sandy, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 8:03 a.m.

    What kind of bowling league we have here? Only one strike for BYU & utah got a spare when they had to go over time? And all others missed those pins. Come on guys, better luck next year. So much for bowling jokes. And a big SPLIT with Bama and lsu in the way.

  • Striker Omaha, NE
    Jan. 2, 2012 6:46 a.m.

    Yes, the West is very good. Check out that 6-8 representative of the PAC South. Wow, what a championship conference that is. Two rivals-one has a major losing season and actually won a championship, the other breaks rules and can't even play in bowl games. Conference of Losers.

    It's also hilarious usu has only one bowl win ever. Now THAT'S a pathetic program!

  • Honor Code Denver, Colorado
    Jan. 2, 2012 6:03 a.m.

    Goodness gracious.......just when I tip my Stetson to both BYU and Utah you have to come up with an article "had it not been for Utah teams"......nothing has changed in Utah!! Ego's and being pompous are still running rampant!!

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 3:38 a.m.

    So much for the PAC 12.

  • GoGetter Sandy, UT
    Jan. 2, 2012 2:31 a.m.

    Way to go Utes and Cougars to represent!

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 1, 2012 10:33 p.m.

    Bronco, you're right, ASU was strong early in the season. But Jazz is more right, ASU limped through the end of their season and were in disarray when they played Boise. They would have been a better matchup for Utah State in a bowl game. Boise deserved to play somebody better.

  • UtahBronco Lehi, UT
    Jan. 1, 2012 10:14 p.m.

    @ AZJazzFan

    asu did cream the Utes @ res and also beat (now #5) usc by 3 tds.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 1, 2012 10:10 p.m.

    MWC and CUSA each had only 2 teams that stood a chance at becoming bowl eligible in the PAC, ACC or even Big East. And do you know why the PAC-12 is called the "Conference of Champions"? It's because we have more national championships than any other conference, and until another one passes us up (not likely in this century), we can keep saying it no matter how tired it gets.

  • sportsfanforlife salt lake city, UT
    Jan. 1, 2012 9:38 p.m.

    @hellooo its obvious you have no idea what your talkin about. better than the acc but worse than the mwc and c-usa??? dude are you serious? et off the boards with ignorant comments like that.

    congrats to byu and utah for being victorious in their bowl games.

  • Hellooo Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 1, 2012 8:47 p.m.

    The poor performance of the PAC-12 in the bowls further shows how average the conference was this season. Even if Stanford and Oregon win, the conference still finishes at less than .500. Please can this be the end of the media's constant, PR for the "Conference of Champions". Of the BCS, qualifying conferences, the PAC-12 this season was at the best only better than the Big East and maybe the ACC. They are probably no better than the MWC and CUSA. And, please since when has Oklahoma State been considered an "eastern" team?

  • Leahcim Lehi, UT
    Jan. 1, 2012 8:39 p.m.

    And though the Aggies couldn't quite pull out their bowl game win, college football fans in the Beehive State can't help but be excited about what's going on with the program up in Logan. Congrats to Coach Andersen and the fellas.

  • Decatur Staleys Lehi, UT
    Jan. 1, 2012 8:35 p.m.

    Great games both, Cougs and Utes. As for Monday, go BADGERS! As for the U. reportedly losing its drum and feather logo, that bites. I love their logo and I'm not even a fan. Whatever replaces it will be a watered-down sell-out.

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Jan. 1, 2012 8:29 p.m.

    Congratulations to th Utes and Cougars. Too bad Air Force bobbled their pitch when they went for 2 points after, trying to win instead of tie. I'm certainly glad those types of players are the ones flying military aircraft and defending our country.

  • bluecoug89 Highland, UT
    Jan. 1, 2012 8:16 p.m.

    Way to go BYU and Utah. Way to represent!!!! Proud to be a student at the Y, a die hard Cougar fan, and a resident of the state of Utah.

  • wwookie Payson, UT
    Jan. 1, 2012 8:06 p.m.

    Bad year for the west. Had USC been eligible, it would have made a huge difference. UCLA would not have been invited to a bowl and better teams would have been playing the tougher competition.

    Utes and coughs represented well. Congrats to both teams.

  • AZJazzFan Gold Canyon, az
    Jan. 1, 2012 7:57 p.m.

    Boise St again got a raw deal playing ASU. ASU would have lost to anyone. BSU would have represented the West well, beating most teams like they usually do.