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Comments about ‘In our opinion: Save more, spend less’

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Published: Tuesday, Dec. 27 2011 12:00 a.m. MST

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Roland Kayser
Cottonwood Heights, UT

This editorial leaves out the underlying cause of increasing debt, and that is diminished economic opportunity for working people. Even during the so called boom years of 2003-2007, median household income was declining. People borrow to maintain a middle class lifestyle, a lifestyle that is no longer possible with an income in the middle ranges of the income distribution. What we think of as a middle class lifestyle is really only possible when income gets into the 80th percentile range and over.

Although living within our means is certainly wise advice for all, accepting declining living standards is tough for a lot of people to bear.

  • 12:15 a.m. Dec. 27, 2011
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Tekakaromatagi
Dammam, Saudi Arabia

I read the Department of Justice is not going to resist internet gambling so the states can now tax it. The mentality promoted by gambling is that if you are lucky then you be rich. The federal and various state governments have promoted this mentality so that they can tax it. They never learn.

patriot
Cedar Hills, UT

"The Great Recession was driven, to a large extent, by runaway consumer spending."

The Obama presidency has been bases upon what? Runaway GOVERNMENT borrowing and spending. Is it any wonder then that we are worse off today than in 2009? 2012 will hopefully bring sanity back to government by first flushing out the swamp starting with the White House and then doing the same in congress. Liberal ideology is a failure. Pure and simple. It was the same liberals that ran both houses of congress from 2006 - 2010 that created the insane easy lending scam and oversaw the banking committee (Frank and Dodd)who gave rosy projections on Fanny and Fredie Mac which cost investors billions. Facts are facts!!!

John Charity Spring
Back Home in Davis County, UT

This editorial is correct. Our society should be condemned for its greedy, materialistic ways. If we do not return to the values of the past, we will have no future.

Past generations knew about the importance of saving and buying only what they already had money set aside for. These generations practiced moderation, prudence, and self-control.

Now, the younger generation only practices immediate gratification, without regard for the consequences. These folks will take on debt at the drop of a hat to buy such unnecessary items as video games, Ipods, and televisions. They enslave themselves to debt for years for a few hours of pleasure.

These financially unresponsible freely spend more than they can ever repay because they think the government will bail them out. They fail to realize that the government no longer has the funds to do so.

Dektol
Powell, OH

Just the opposite of what President George W. Bush told us to do. He told us it was patriotic to spend more.

Mike in Cedar City
Cedar City, Utah

I would be the last to disagree with the News that we need to reign in credit spending, but the editorial seems to blame the "great recession" mostly on the consumer. For example, it blames consumers that bought more house than they needed or could afford. This argument ignores Wall Street excesses, run away government spending and borrowing to fund two simultaneous long wars, and an ill advised tax cut that eliminated the budget surplus existing at the end of the Clinton Administration. The economy is bad today, not so much because of inappropriate consumer credit spending but more because so many had no choice but to use credit because their jobs went to India, China, Mexico, and India. Finally, consider the increasing disparity in wealth between the rich and the poor and those of moderate means over the last 40 years or so. What role has that played in the health of our economy?

Liberal Ted
Salt Lake City, UT

Debt is debt. Simple as that.

I'm not sure why we could say that the US is the richest country in the world. That's like saying the guy with the biggest home loan, car loan, boat loan, maxed out credit cards; is the richest man on the block. When compared to the neighbor with the paid off old car, paid off small home and yard, paid off canoe, and has money in savings....to me that is the richest man on the block.

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

Not saying we shouldn't be personally fiscally responsible..however if we were in fact to increase our savings to say a 10% level which many advisors preach, in order to withstand the next great recession (DN)..it would cause the next great recession. Our economy is absolutely dependent on continued consumer spending at increasing rates. Every corporation is obsessed with growth, and all of their business plans are based on growth. Growth can only occur if spending grows.

John Charity, you absolutley need to see Woody Allens Midnight in Paris. Previous generations....Woody will put that in perspective for you.

Patriot, Liberal philosopy is a failure, pure and simple. What is liberal philosophy? Here's another fact. Bush deficit '08 500billion, Bush deficit '09 1.9 trillion..difference great recession. Recession instigated debt 1.9 trillion per year times three years and walla 6 trillion dollar debt. It's economic reality, not some liberal conspiracy.

Midvaliean
MIDVALE, UT

@John Charity Spring
Last time I checked it wasn't the younger generation running the show. Its the older generation, YOUR generation. Your generation has spent us into oblivion. The Right and the Left seem to have no shortage of old men willing to spend us into the ground.

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

Blame Main Steet for Wall Street's errors?

Yeah, sounds about right for a conservative newspaper. Lets just ignore what wall street, the banks, and deregulation did and blame everything on the average joe.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

I lived a prudent Middle-class.
Unlike the Stock market, speculative investments, and other get-rich-quick gimmicks ---

We listened and obeyed and and Investing EVERYTHING into our house, and avoiding all credit card debt.

We were "debt-free", including our vehilces.

My entire life's savings (i.e., our home - Real Estate)
Which has been for generations in America
the ONE secure investment completely vaporized by the economy.

This letter is not entirely true since it only accounts for credit card debt -- a loss of perhaps $10,000 - $20,000.

Meanwhile, the lion's share of personal losses come from those like myself, who've lost $200,000 - $300,000 in equity by those same banks who got Government bail-outs.

Play by the rules, and you loose.

Who's paying for it?
I am.
In taxes AND in losses.

This is the number reason I despise Capitalism and Republicans.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "LDS Liberal | 8:53 a.m. " did you buy a home as an investment or for a place to live?

Also FYI, the only people who have lost equity in their homes are people who have purchased large homes that are difficult to sell regardless of the current market. Those who have purchased modest homes lost little to no equity.

What is your solution? Do you want more government intervention? How would you have handled the mortgage crisis that was precipitated by the failures of Freddie and Fannie (the government owned lending institutions)?

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

RedShirt | 9:36 a.m. Dec. 27, 2011
USS Enterprise, UT
To "LDS Liberal | 8:53 a.m. " did you buy a home as an investment or for a place to live?

Also FYI, the only people who have lost equity in their homes are people who have purchased large homes that are difficult to sell regardless of the current market. Those who have purchased modest homes lost little to no equity.

===================

1. Your premise that the ONLY people who lost equity is false.
Everyone lost equity RedShirt -- Everyone, even you.

Our "modest" house lost over 1/3 of it's total value.
And we stayed ahead because we bought 18 years ago, and sank every penney we had into remodeling and paying down the principle....not paying for Disneyland vacations and driving a new SUV.

1. We have never owned a new home.
2. We have never owned a new car.
3. Our children never all had their own bedrooms.

We did what the Prophet asked, Pride and GREED of Capitalism failed.

Only the Banks, Oil and WallStreet got bailed out, and are making huge record profits again.

The 1% just got richer.
The middle class paid for it.

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

Just one quick question Red Shirt..how would purpose to create 30 year mortages without freddie and fannie? 30 year mortages are the backbone of the american home building industry. Take away 30 year mortages and poof one of americas major job creators disapears.

marxist
Salt Lake City, UT

"The Great Recession was driven, to a large extent, by runaway consumer spending." First, you should not be using the past tense. Second, consumer debt was driven by working class people trying to maintain a standard of living they had come to expect in the face of 30 years of stagnant real wages (what money will buy) and rising prices. This they tried to support by working more and more hours, hardly irresponsible. This, as always, is the song at the Deseret News - the evils of society are always created by individuals - especially the working class, not organizations. You can't be taken seriously. You are too ideologically anchored.

threedegreecougar
Kaysville, UT

If the LDS church and its business interests (Deseret News) are so concerned about consumer debt, why did it give American Express's CFO, Gary Crittenden, the BYU Marriott School of Management's Distinguished Alumni award a few years ago? And why is he currently an LDS Area Authority?

Crittenden later left American Express for his "dream job" (his words) as CFO of Citigroup in February 2007. During that time, when Citigroup was using every scientifically known method to influence consumer behavior to take on more and more debt, Crittenden took in more than 30 million dollars in compensation for just over two years of work. He is the only individual known to have been fined by the SEC for providing false statements to the SEC regarding an institution's false reporting of financials during the mortgage fraud criss.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "LDS Liberal | 10:33 a.m." the prophets have also warned againt Socialism and Communism, or any system that uses force rather than leaving it up to the individual.

Another thing taht you fail to recognize is the simple fact that the economic boom/bust was a direct result of Government intervention in the market. It was not the "Pride and GREED of Capitalism" that failed. It was the attempt of governments to control and manipulate something that they don't understand.

You support a system that would compel people and nations. According to Gordon B. Hinkley "[Opposition] has been felt in the undying efforts of many, both within and without the Church, to destroy faith, to belittle, to demean, to bear false witness, to tempt and allure and induce our people to practices inconsistent with the teachings and standards of this work of God...The war goes on. It is waged across the world over the issues of agency and compulsion."

The other problem that you have is that you are relying on a group of millionaires with little to no business sense to make things better.

Irony Guy
Bountiful, Utah

I played by the rules. I'm debt free, maxed out on 401K. Because of Wall Street shenanigans, lost half my net worth in the 2008 debacle. And when President Romney takes away my Social Security and medicare because I'm an "entitlement freeloader" (even though I've paid for it for 40 years), I guess I can just be happy I did 'THE RIGHT THING' all those years.

Mike in Cedar City
Cedar City, Utah

Hey, Redshirt. If capitalism is so good (and Godly) why did Joseph Smith introduce the United Order? Socialist ideas are never compulsary when the people decide to implement them based upon democratic consent. We socialize many things, consider roads and highways, police forces, fire departments, public schools, our Army, Navy, Air Force, and Coast Guard, just to name a few.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "You can't be taken seriously. You are too ideologically anchored."

Pot, meet kettle.

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