Comments about ‘Santaquin LDS Church meetinghouse special to community’

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Published: Sunday, Dec. 18 2011 10:44 p.m. MST

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Red Headed Stranger
Billy Bobs, TX

Wow. Seven dollars? During my stint as the Ward Clerk (and as probably the worst Ward Clerk our ward had ever seen) we were repeatedly instructed to never leave cash overnight at the church and to always deposit tithing and other funds at the bank that day. We followed procedures to escort the person carrying the money to the bank to drop it off. In a sense, I'm surprised they found that they even found seven dollars.

Liberal Ted
Salt Lake City, UT

Following up on a tip, police arrested to juveniles ages 16 and 17 in connection with the fire.

I know I'm being picky but you should use 'two' and not 'to'.

Liberal Ted
Salt Lake City, UT

So why did the kids spray 666 on the walls and work really hard with multiple start points of the fires to burn the building down?

Either way it should go down as a hate crime and they should face justice and serve their time and work to pay off the damages they have inflicted.

On a side note:

What is wrong with kids? Has anyone else run into the entitled mentality that so many kids have? They watch the news and learn to cry victim on everything. When I have kicked kids off of private property, they claim their rights are being violated, then they give 50,000 practiced excuses, then they throw a tantrum, then they claim they have a right to be on private property....I can't number the times they said they're going home to get a weapon to come back and harm me. Which then gets the police involved. To whom they disrespect and use their trespass notice as tp as they're leaving. The parents should start spanking their kids or disciplining them. The kids of zero repsect for adults or authority or private property. My guess is their parents have the same mentality

Kalindra
Salt Lake City, Utah

@ Liberal Ted: Where in the story does it say anything about graffiti or multiple attempts to start fires?

BH
Tremonton, UT

Kalindra:

These are details that, while not in this news artcile, have been shared in several other news reports on this arson.

Liberal Ted
Salt Lake City, UT

You can check abc. They won't let me post the link. But just do a google search.

Either way the vandalism and the fire is too extreme and violent. These youths should be charged and have to pay back the cost of the damage they caused.

Society has gone too far the other way, where we are afraid to punish criminals. What is the first thing just about every criminal does when they get caught? They start the same list of excuses, then they claim how brutal and rude everyone else is, then they blame the victim, then they plead temporary insanity etc.

Why have criminals become patients? Why is the welfare system supporting 50% of this country? There needs to be a changed mindset. Try driving through SLC and see how many J-Walkers flip you off and try and kick your car as you drive on the road. Try talking to dog owners that refuse to pick up after their animal, they don't care if their dog leaves piles in your yard to pick up. So much for civilization, when courtesy goes out the window.

Rifleman
Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: Kalindra | 9:51 a.m. Dec. 19, 2011
"Where in the story does it say anything about graffiti or multiple attempts to start fires?"

Try Fox 13 for additional details.

These men set out to destroy an area of the building prepared for a community fundraiser for a local man battling cancer. That pretty much defines "cold hearted" in my book. These suspects should be certified as adults and charged with a hate crime.

Bill in Nebraska
Maryville, MO

We are instructed not to leave any cash in the Church. However, Bishop's receive tithing sometimes at odd times other than on a Sunday. Instead of taking it home, they generally will place it in the center drawer of their desks in the Bishop's office. This was probably one envelope given to the Bishop after or just before Sunday services. He just locked it in his desk. This is a common practice amoung Bishop's through out the Church. Possibly since it is so much of a common practice, Bishop's will now be instructed to take it home. All of the tithing envelopes have the Bishop's home address on them. He has a box at home that is just for tithing envelopes. The where abouts is known to almost every member of the Bishop's Family.

I've read most of the articles on this and no where have I been able to find the 666 information. I have found where they set fire to several areas of the Church. The police have stated that they do not believe a hate crime was committed, just a burglary gone wrong.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'Either way it should go down as a hate crime...' - Liberal Ted | 8:03 a.m. Dec. 19, 2011

Can someone please cite the story, date and author?

Also, you have to prove the teens set the fire to create an atmosphere of fear for, specifically, LDS members.

I have not seen anything in comments about the teens in this regard. I have seen ZERO quotes from the teens themselves that they were targeting the LDS church, or it's members.

That said, I am glad they were caught.

I disagree with the LDS church about many things. Rifleman will most likely continue to obsess about this statemnt.

However, I would like to point out that resorting to ARSON about any disagreements, is WRONG.

It is NOT accpetable to work to CREATE that atmosphere of fear and intimidation when you disagree with a group, or person.

Change their hearts and minds.

Resorting to crime, is NOT ok.

Rifleman
Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: Bill in Nebraska | 12:17 p.m. Dec. 19, 2011
"The police have stated that ...... just a burglary gone wrong"

According to ABC Channel 4 detectives found multiple" points of combustion. I submit that this was much much more that just a burglary gone wrong. The primary similarity between burglary and arson is that they are both found in the Utah Criminal Code.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

To be clear, if evidence is found that the teens were TARGETING the lds church for some reason, I would actually SUPPORT that they be charged with Hate Crime legislation.

However, 'watch ABC/Fox' is not specific enough to easily get more details on this story.

Writting '666' on wall does not target anyone specifically with exception of the New Testiment.

This, is a hate crime:

*'US teen sentenced for killing gay student' - By Greg Risling - AP - Published by DSNews - 12/19/11

'VENTURA, California A California teenager was sentenced on Monday to 21 years in state prison for killing a gay student during a computer lab class...'

Brandon McInerney shot Larry King in the back of the head.

Twice.

So, while I can understand the desire to see justice done, a few points:

1) The descriptions are so vauge, and supporting evidence so few that I cannot say this was TARGETING lds members, with exception to their dollars.

and 2) People are dying.

AlinOz
Bathurst, NSW

Bishop Sorenson, that5 is a nice Christian attitude to have re forgiveness. Sorry, Bish, no go. These kids - so-called young adults did the crime and now they should pay the penalty.
Ms Yi did not indicate whether or not the perps were LDS; If they were somewhere along the way, there has been a breakdown. If not, there is another problem that needs addressing. Forgiveness is like banging a nail into a piece of wood, extracting it, filling it and painting over it. Whatever cosmetic surgery is done to that piece of wood, the hole (like the crime) still remains. I hope the County judge gets tough - sorry, too many people have suffered over these two clowns.

Flying Finn
Murray, UT

Pagan writes: "US teen sentenced for killing gay student"

I am have trouble associating the murder of a gay student with the torching of an LDS church house. Is Pagan trying to infer that these two accused arsonists are gay and therefore had some perceived axe to grind?

Rifleman
Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: Pagan | 4:58 p.m. Dec. 19, 2011
"However, I would like to point out that resorting to ARSON about any disagreements, is WRONG."

I'm glad we can all agree with your disingenuous observation that burning a church is wrong. Actually it is a second degree felony here in Utah - U.C.A. 76-6-103.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'I am have trouble associating the murder of a gay student with the torching of an LDS church house. Is Pagan trying to infer that these two accused arsonists are gay and therefore had some perceived axe to grind?' - Flying Finn | 6:14 p.m. Dec. 19, 2011

No.

That's...probably why you should ask...me.

My point, was that everyone where is eager to lable this as a Hate Crime (Liberal Ted | 8:03 a.m. Dec. 19, 2011) without:

1) Any evidence. aka, not in the article.

2) These same persons also advocate to EXCEMPT hate crimes...

done for orientation.

Or is shooting a child in a computer class just more 'expressions of love?'

For the sinner?

Of course Rifleman points out that I am disingenuous.

Because he knows me, so well. (Sarcasm)

Flying Finn
Murray, UT

Pagan writes: "My point, was that everyone where is eager to lable this as a Hate Crime"

Arson or hate crime? Who cares which it is as long as the perpetrators are punished? For the man sitting behind bars for 10 years it really doesn't make any difference to him if it is because he burned down a church for kicks or whether he did it because he doesn't like the fact that they believe in marriage between one man and one woman.

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