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Comments about ‘Mormon apostle Elder Quentin L. Cook urges 'restoration of morality'’

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Published: Friday, Dec. 16 2011 11:11 p.m. MST

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Munk
Cottonwood Heights, UT

I very much like what I have just read. This is not just good advice for those that are LDS but for all. Understanding and learning from others of different faiths, beliefs, etc. can only improve and strengthen bonds that will be needed to step forward to the future.

MyChildrensKeeper
Taylorsville, UT

I hope he is talking about and referring to his congregation of Mormons to give up their immoral ways of encouraging and harboring fugitive illegal foreign nationals to plunder and loot the taxpayers of Utah and the nation. I hope he is referring to the illegal Hispanics and Mexicans to return to their homeland and obey the laws of the United States. I hope he is referring to all church members to stop using sympathy as a weapon of deception to encourage foreign occuaption and subversion of our rule of law and law and order.

Yes, I do hope he is talking to his flock to be good and responsible Americans and not to support breaking our laws or disobeying law enforcement and declare the Utah Compact a criminal collaboration of oppression of the American people and their jobs. It is time we all put our country ahead of our religion and sympathy because if we don't preserve our country and laws we cannot practice our freedoms to be independent, self sufficient, and be honorable in our religious endeavors.

Esquire
Springville, UT

I support the thought of moral living, but restore to what point in time? When we had slavery and lynchings? Pre-civil rights? There have been some bad things done in this nation, many of which were covered up, glossed over or not open discussed. I really don't know if we are better, worse, the same or similar to the past. There are lots of good things about the world, and the need to exhort people to live better lives has always been there.

VocalLocal
Salt Lake, UT

While I think there is great value for many in the practice of their religion and I always certainly hope our society will allow the freedom to practice religion I don't see large groups of people threatening religious freedom. Secularists, though they may ridicule religion (and I would hope even religious people would want to preserve their right to do so) rarely if ever threaten to impose restrictions on religious expression.

Also while there are great Judeo-Christian values we have to recognize there is an evolution of values independent of the Bible. Moral ideals we all share came about in many areas of the world that never had access to the Bible. Also the Bible, though it contains great moral teachings also contains teachings we would find appalling today-such as encouraging slaughter of people who worship other gods(example: read Numbers 31).

Last Elder Cook seems to encourage the unified effort of religions in maintaining religious values. I find it ironic that he is concerned about preserving religious freedoms yet wants religious people to unite in defeating freedoms secularists would like to allow in our society.

Ernest T. Bass
Bountiful, UT

Humanity is better now than it's ever been. A higher percentage of humans live in societies with more liberties, freedoms and most important, civil rights, than ever before.
I simply do not understand or agree with the notion that society is getting worse. For a person to admit that is for that person to agree they've never actually studied any history.
I would like to hear one ancient culture who provide better and more human rights than our current one.

George
Bronx, NY

speaking of Secularist the Elder states "In their view, there is no 'objective moral order' and no reason to choose one goal over another," he said. "They believe no preference should be given to moral goals."

So apparently mischaracterizing those that disagree with you with one large brush stroke is know a civil and respectful way of conducting yourself in discourse.

Many Secularist people think there are reasons to choose certain goals for the betterment of the world and society based on logic and science. I know its hard to imagine but you can be an ethical person without religion. If religion helps you be a more ethical/moral person then great but don't mischaracterize those of us that do not believe as you do.

Kalindra
Salt Lake City, Utah

It is not so much that I believe no preference should be given to moral goals - I just don't think your moral goals should be given more preference than my moral goals.

I believe in order to maintain true freedom of religion, we cannot use the law to codify the beliefs of some religious groups over the beliefs of other religious groups - regardless of how popular or unpopular the various beliefs are.

I believe that overuse of religious symbols removes their sacredness and makes them mundane.

I believe that there is good in Judeo-Christian moral values, but I do not believe those values only belong to Judeo-Christian worshippers. Many of those values can be found in every religion and most of those values require absolutely no religion.

I don't need to fear punishment or crave rewards in order to respect others. I don't need punishment or rewards to respect myself.

I don't believe that claiming to be religious and have moral values is the same as being religious and having moral values. The world would be a much better place if religions worried about the beam in their own eye before worrying about the mote in mine.

lds4gaymarriage
Salt Lake City, UT

Speaking of Secularists, Elder Cook states, "In their view, there is no 'objective moral order' and no reason to choose one goal over another,". He said, "They believe no preference should be given to moral goals." Since we cannot offer objective proof that God exists, religion based morality is definitionally subjective. The only standard for objective moral order is the libertarian view of allowing all to do as they please as long as no OBJECTIVE harm against anothers person, property or rights occurs. This would outlaw murder, theft, fraud, etc...but still allow Sunday shopping, cussing, and penny ante poker (all of which have been/are illegal based on religious morality).

Religionists view laws being based on the "harm" standard rather than on God's alleged standard, as an attack on religion and on the freedom of religion. Not so. It is simply recognizing proper place in a pluralistic society with a secular government. Religion is losing the special rights it undeservedly had. Those special rights included having prayer and Bible reading in schools and, amongst others, banning those things mentioned previously.

When laws are based on religion, religion is no longer a beacon, but a "tractor beam".

CHS 85
Sandy, UT

Is Elder Cook aware that people of other than "Judeo-Christian" religions are in the United States? Is he also aware that their religious freedoms are just as protected as his own?

NeilT
Clearfield, UT

My childrens keeper. Does everything have to be about illegal immigration? Can't we talk about something else. The church does not support illegal immigration. The church understands that many people are leaving Mexico out of desperation. Why not reach out to those in distress instead of passing judgement on others. This issue is getting far more attention than it deserves. I don't care what some immigration status is they are still human beings and should be treated as such. Please get over it. Demonizing others is not the way to spread the spirit of Christmas.

TheWalker
Saratoga Springs, UT

Today over 40% of American children are born to unwed mothers, the divorce rate is close to 50%, and a large percentage of society, some of them who claim to believe in the Bible, advocate that same-sex marriage should be legal. Those that oppose these trends are derided as being antiquated and out of touch with society, and in many instances, have been fired, fined and jailed.

The morals of our society are in a swift decline, and Elder Cook is absolutely correct that unless we do something about it, those of us who have strong religious beliefs will be sanctioned in our efforts to exercise those beliefs.

I for one plan on doing whatever I can to stop this trend and preserve the freedoms for which our forefathers fought and died.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

Religion doesn't bring us any greater moral guidance than our inherent nature does. Indeed, what it does do is empower a lot of people to do things ranging from strange to inhumane based on an unquestionable authority they claim to have from god.

lds4gaymarriage
Salt Lake City, UT

TheWalker, The only people, in this country, that were fined were those who ignored their states' laws when they refused their companies' service to gay clients. No one has been jailed and I know of no one being fired. A few quit their jobs (like that theatre executive) once their donations to Prop.8 became known and they knew that most of their colleagues were very opposed to Prop.8. Firing people for their religious or political beliefs is clearly illegal.

The sky isn't falling. Criticism isn't persecution. Your religious rights are not in danger.

We LDS SHOULD try to encourage people to live righteously, but using our political might to pass laws promoting Gospel principles but which infringe upon the rights of others violates scripture (1 Cor. 10:29).

the truth
Holladay, UT

RE: VocalLocal

The seculaarists rarely if ever threaten to impose restrictions on religious expression?

Waht are you talking about?

They are trying to remove any and all religious expression from the public square.

From schools.

From public property.

From government.

From our founding documents.

From our founding fathers.

And they want all replaced with their philosophies and beliefs, all out of some misguided thinking that their ways are better, that they are elite and know better.

it is called progressivism (and it is in both parties) and it is has been destroying our country for a century, taking away freedoms (for security, for PC, for "science", for forced equalization, compelled charity, etc), and centralizing power and dependency in the federal government.

People need wake up to what's going on, rather than believe the lie that whatever the progressives do is good and right, that giving up a little here and a little there is all right,

it is not.

anti-liar
Salt Lake City, UT

NeilT -

"Does everything have to be about illegal immigration?"

Yes, it does. Not only is it is hugely important, since it effects everything else: the economy, jobs, education, security, etc., it also is hugely relevant to the article at hand -- especially given the recent, official Church statements which clearly and plainly oppose efforts to enforce immigration law. "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is concerned that any state legislation that only contains enforcement provisions is likely to fall short of the high moral standard of treating each other as children of God." So stated the Church on June 10th, 2011. In other words, enforcing the law is immoral and inhumane.

This is where those responsible for promulgating such false doctrine -- and that is exactly what that is: false doctrine -- ought to be taking Elder Cook's advice to heart, and repent.

People rob banks in desperation. That does not make it right. The notion that desperate bank robbers should be given a pass in the name of "compassion," is, again, a lie.

MyChildrensKeeper -

Thank you. You are absolutely right. The country is in jeopardy, for the reasons you named.

And God will clean His house first.

George
Bronx, NY

@TheWalker

perpetuating the same lies that have been proven time and agin to be false does nothing to establish your moral authority.

@the truth

your propaganda speaks for itself. no real need to comment beyond that.

Vanka
Provo, UT

The irrational, illogical, and fallacious nature of the religionists' rhetoric is becoming increasingly transparent and laughable. Meanwhile, nonbelievers continue to advance more humane and moral legal and social institutions, without having to wait over ten years for a so-called "revelation" from any god or his self-proclaimed "mouthpieces".

When religious hegemony is broken, nonbelievers in society do more in a few decades for the advancement of morality and improved quality of human life than a thousand religionists have provided in two millennia.

LetsDebate
PLEASANT GROVE, UT

@Vanka - talk about irrational, illogical, and laughably fallacious. Let's hear the long list of non-believers who have advanced civilization.

Do you mean those who founded our nation as a better system of government than anywhere else in the world at that time? Oh wait, Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, etc. were nearly all believers.

Do you mean the one who held our nation together and freed slaves? Oh wait, Lincoln was also a believer, as were those who operated the underground railroad.

Do you mean scientific advancement? Oh wait, Einstein was a believer.

Do you mean human rights? Oh wait, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, Gandhi, Mother Theresa, and their followers were believers.

I daresay that most reforms leading to more humane legal and social institutions have been led by believers with a more enlightened perception of human relationships than their believing and non-believing contemporaries.

I'm curious about all the advancements to civilization that were led by non-believers.

Bill in Nebraska
Maryville, MO

Iwas reading the other day and this is where things have changed.

There was a time when the morals of this country coincided with the standards of the Church of Jesus Christ. Today that is not true. Today as has been mentioned we have seen the decline of marriage because of the so called no-default divorce, unwed mothers, and of course to top it off same-sex marriage. We have seen an increase in children borne out of wed-lock though this has declined it is still prevelant amount those below the poverty line. We have seen where society approves of co-habitation and the birth of children with or without both parents. True some will say we now require an absent parent to pay child support but does that really help the child.

Same-sex marriage is a moral dilemma that some in the Church appear to approve without understanding the eternal perspective of it. The only thing is that it this moral decline will only continue to do so until it is at a point that a religious person will not only be persecuted but killed for their beliefs. How many are willing to suffer death?

Bill in Nebraska
Maryville, MO

We have fifteen men on Earth that are recognized as prophets, seers and revelators. They are the Lord's mouthpiece. Whether you want to believe this or disagree with it. IT IS STILL A FACT. As in the past the words of the Prophets were laughed at, mocked, pit upon and even killed for what they've said. The world has not changed in this regard. Yet, we still have the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ to look forward to when there will be no wickedness upon the earth, where all knees shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ. Until that happens the majority of the people will continue to call good bad and bad good. They will declare that the secluarists have done more good than any prophet. However, in the end their words will fall upon deaf years and be destroyed.

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