Comments about ‘Book remembers BYU's forgotten 1951 NIT champions’

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Published: Wednesday, Dec. 14 2011 8:21 p.m. MST

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Jake2010
bountiful, ut

Oh trolls..... Will you ever learn?

So. Cal Reader
San Diego, CA

Mr. Harmon, I'm not a fan of too many of your articles, but I have to admit- I really enjoyed reading this one! Thanks for pulling back the curtains to a very awe-inspiring team and players!

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Wow! That 60-yr old NIT title must have been pretty important to that geographically challenged Spokane, WA resident "cougarinboston", for him to post about its "prestige" 3 consecutive times within a 40-min. window. How desperate of him. I only wonder if he knows about ANOTHER one of the cougars' notable achievements: Most NCAA tournament appearances without a Final Four presence.

guitarboy
South Jordan, UT

Uncle Rico, your post contains some facts and is missing others.

True that the 1951 final AP poll ranked BYU no. 11 (and the final coaches poll ranked BYU no. 10). Did you bother to look at the date of those polls? March 6, 1951. Did you bother to note the date of the 1951 NIT championship game? March 18, 1951. In those days, final polls were released before the tournaments were played to determine the champion.

Other facts: The Cougars defeated, among others, AP #10 St. Louis and AP #13 Dayton to win the 1951 NIT and national title. Notable players on that team include: Mel Hutchins, taken #2 in the 1951 NBA draft and named the 1951-52 NBA co-rookie of the year, became a 5-time NBA All-Star with the Pistons and the Knicks.

New York Times reported March 18, 1951, "The BYU Cougars have won the 1951 National Championship."
See (Google) BYU News Net for documentation.

The New York Times certainly was not (and never has been) biased in favor of BYU.

A more complete view of history than Uncle Rico's reveals BYU was the 1951 national champion in basketball.

Carnak
Salt Lake City, UT

Congratulations to this team for winning the NIT and to the Utah team for their victory approximately 50 years ago.

Some of the people commenting on these boards really need to get a life and a perspective of what is important and what isn't. I am sure the relationships between the players that has lasted for decades and their personal experiences on the court together is the most critical aspect of their basketball experience. The level of competition, who won the most prestigeous tournament and whose school has more banners than the other is left to those fans who have lost the perspective that the players who played those games still have.

guitarboy
South Jordan, UT

vN wonders many things. vN doesn't seem interested in PAC12 basketball, or in the quality of basketball played in the Huntsman. vN seems interested in what BYU fans are saying about BYU basketball. vN seems concerned that BYU fans are talking about a 60-yr old NIT title.

Okay vN, let's talk current basketball.

61-42, last Saturday.

At the Huntsman Center, BYU "[took] a 61-42 win in front of 10,327 evenly split fans wearing blue and red, but even the Cougars werent crowing about their sixth straight win over the Utes."
--Salt Lake Tribune, December 10, 2011.

"Utah basketball: The nations worst team? Utes looking like a good fit"
--Salt Lake Tribune, December 9, 2011.

Interesting how the vN-infected among us can criticize anything basketball related when vN's own team might lose to Lone Peak High if such a game were played. vN's team has absolutely no chance against BYU, or Cal State Fullerton for that matter. You'd have to go back a few years to find a Utah team capable of beating BYU. But that would be living in the past, and that isn't valid. Right, vN?

JustTheTruthMan
bountiful, ut

I will have to point out that the NIT is only the oldest post season tournament by one year...... NCAA.com will verify that if you are present enough to know how to find it!

Bleed Crimson
Sandy, Utah

@ royalblue and cougarinboston

I'm getting different responses from you two on who was crowned National Champions back in the 40's and 50's between Utah and BYU.

cougarinboston said:
"Even though Ute fans insist on pretending otherwise, the simple truth is Utah has won three national tournaments, but NO national championships in basketball".

royalblue said:
"The nit was a National Tournament in 1951, therefore, its winner is a national champion. End of story".

Utah has won the 1947 NIT Tournament, but cougarinboston is claiming Utah has no National Championships in basketball. So here royalblue is proclaiming BYU is National Chmapions in 1951 for winning the NIT 4 years after Utah won the NIT. Either both Utah and BYU have won National Championships in basketball for winning the NIT back in the old days, or neither of the two schools do and the NCAA Tournament crowns National Champions which Utah won in 1944. Take your pick!

As I said before Utah won a National Championship back in 1916 for winning the National AAU Tournament. National AAU Tournament was the most prestigious basketball tournament in those days long before the NIT and NCAA tournaments came about.

giantfan
Farmington, UT

Typical Naval Vet, criticizing the poster without one shred of ability to criticize the post(s).

MJB
Tooele, UT

I think I'll have to get a copy of the book. My uncle was student body President at BYU in 1951, the year he was married (in Sept) and the year before me and my twin cousins were born. Hopefully it will be good reading.

USAlover
Salt Lake City, UT

When an article like this spawns a comments like these, you know it is time for the rivalry to go away.

Enough already! Obviously both sides of the rivalry are a bit insecure.

#1 SLC Sports Fan
Salt Lake City, UT

I find this article full of nonsense, particularly that the NIT champion was more prestigious even in those days as the NCAA. Not true to say the least!

If BYU continues college athletics it should only be to the scope and offering of the WCC, which at the very least means droping a football program that has become contradictory to the mission of the LDS Church rather than exposing it...it merely exposes future potential LDS Church converts to LDS athletes playing on Sunday if they make the NFL. Basketball doesn't need the big huge carnivorous Marriott Center any more. Baylor might bring in 22,000+ fans but typically 10,000-15,000 is all even a winning BYU team can attract. If BYU has a pile of money they can rebuild the Smith Field-house and demolish the Marriott Center and instead build a 20,000 seaauditoriumum for devotionals.

All BYU does is cheapen the mission of state schools like Utah State University, whom they pushed aside back in 1961 when the original WAC was formed. With this more recent alignmentment BYU is now a surplus school that should further be reduced in relevance.

Riddles in the Dark
Olympus Cove, Utah

Bleed Crimson

Two words: READING COMPREHENSION

What you posted:
royalblue said: "The nit was a National Tournament in 1951, therefore, its winner is a national champion. End of story".

What royalblue really posted:
"Even though Ute fans insist on pretending otherwise, the simple truth is Utah has won three national tournaments, but NO national championships in basketball."

The NIT and NCAA were competing national tournaments in 1944, 1947, and 1951, with the NIT generally accepted as the more prestigious tournament, but neither tournament winner was automatically recognized as the national champion.

From 1939, when the NCAA Tournament started, the Helms Athletic Foundation and NCAA Division I champions were the same, except for 1939-40-44-54 when Oregon, Indiana, Utah, and La Salle respectively won the tournament.

Utah won three national tournaments in 1916, 1944 and 1947, but NO national championships.

Basketball National Champions - Helms Athletic Foundation
1916 Wisconsin (20-1) (Utah 11-0)
1944 Army (15-0) (Utah 22-4)
1947 Holy Cross (27-3) (Utah 19-5)

As you can see, Utah had a significantly worse record in all three seasons than the team that was actually named the national champion.

Tom in CA
Vallejo, CA

"I find this article full of nonsense, particularly that the NIT champion was more prestigious even in those days as the NCAA. Not true to say the least"

Sorry #1 - your "opinion" is with a very small minority.

TrollPolice
Salt Lake City, UT

SLC Sports Fan

Sorry jealous Utah troll, but your pipe dream of BYU dropping sports will never happen. It is laughable that you whine about BYU "typically" only getting 10,000 to 15,000 fans to games, when even your low-end prediction (grossly underestimated) is well above the average of every team in the PAC 12.

Get over your self-righteous whining and stop hating.

TheSportsAuthority
Arlington, VA

Naval Vet

"Wow! That 60-yr old NIT title must have been pretty important..."

Certainly more important than that even older 1944 NCAA title won playing an entire season of pickup games while most of the country was off fighting a world war.

Solomon the Wise
Alpine, UT

Why are the trolls so bothered to learn that BYU has a long history of success in both football and basketball?

NightOwlAmerica
SALEM, OR

TJ said:

"unclerico and snowman;
I can just hear your squeaky little voices cracking in protest over another article about a superior BYU athletic team.
desperately trolling BYU articles is no way to go through life. Move on and learn to appreciate the truth."

Would you like a little green jello with your rhodes roll?
The same goes for BYU fans trolling articles about Utah belonging to the Pac 12. They are in, BYU is not.
Move on and learn to appreciate the truth.

Cougars - Wise Older Brothers
Anaheim, CA

NOA

"They are in, BYU is not."

And yet the insecurity of our little brothers makes it impossible for them to stop obsessing about BYU. Every major conference has its bottom dwellers; the Utes are settling in nicely to their new role.

PAC 12 loves U
Sandy, Utah

@ Cougars - Foolish Little Brothers

"And yet the insecurity of our little brothers makes it impossible for them to stop obsessing about BYU. Every major conference has its bottom dwellers; the Utes are settling in nicely to their new role".

Aww....Isn't it cute seeing our little brother beating his chest acting all superior?.........Thump! 54-10; Big brother from the hill goes down to Provo and puts little brother in his place of the pecking order.

We are enjoying our new "elite" role now, thank you very much! Who are you referencing as "bottom dwellers"? Obviously that can't be Utah considering they finished in the middle the Pac-12 this year. Who are you talking about little brother?

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