So. Cal Reader,I agree that giantfan's post was well-written, but
before you fall all over yourself praising giantfan's
"cross-examination" of Elmer Fudd, might I point a few things out?-Elmer specified the Heisman and Outland Trophys. He made no mention of
the Sammy Baugh and Doak Walker awards, that was giantfan putting words into his
mouth.-Where is the evidence that Elmer is "lying?"
That's quite an accusation to make against someone, particularly when the
so-called evidence of the offense is at least partially fabricated by the
accusor.So not all of the points were "solid," as you
said. The cross-examination wouldn't hold up in the eyes of an objective judge
and jury.Oh, and by the way, it's "54-10 (not 52-10), and Pac12
(not Pac10+) vs. WAC teams" to you!
RE: giantfan- "Well, you're either lying or you're in way over your head
with a discussion with the big boys. Let the adults talk for a while!By the way,
how many of the above awards does Utah have in their trophy case? Certainly they
have at least one..." OK, I humbly vote for "Giantfan" as best
cross-examination ever! Loved it. Good, solid points all of them!! OK. So, I
think I can guess what the reply will be. Let's see .... something about 52-10,
Pac10+ vs. WAC teams. Blah, blah, blah!
Elmer said, "'Do you remember BYU's National Championship, 17
National Awards, including Heisman and Outlands?' No, I wasn't even
born"You weren't around in 1984 when BYU won their NC? Fine,
you're younger than 27.You weren't around in 1986 or 1989 when Buck
and Elowonibi won the Outland? Fine, you're younger than 22. You
weren't around in 1990 when Detmer won the Heisman? Or when he won the Davey
O'Brien that same year and in 1991, when he also won the Sammy Baugh? Fine,
you're younger than 20. You weren't around in 1996 when Sarkisian
won the Sammy Baugh? Now I'm starting to doubt your honesty.You
weren't around in 2001 when Staley won the Doak Walker? Well, you're either
lying or you're in way over your head with a discussion with the big boys. Let
the adults talk for a while!By the way, how many of the above awards
does Utah have in their trophy case? Certainly they have at least one...
A QB that had all the tools coming into BYU in the Fall of 88 was Chris Hoge,
out of Highland HS in Poky, Idaho.. The only tool he lacked though, was probably
most important, Mental toughness/maturity. You'd think he would redshirt and
bide his time for a shot after Detmer, but Chris, the youngest Hoge and brother
to Merrill, threw a fit and left to Ricks JC where he fizzled cuz he was a head
case.. This cat had all the ability in the world with his 6'4" frame. What
-Y Grad / Y Dad- brings up an interesting topic regarding O'Neil Chambers.
Chambers will most likely re-join the team next year. I am happy he is back.
If Jake were playing QB next year at BYU, Chambers would have received very few
touches as Jake would have most likely held a vendetta for the practical joke
and would have looked to other receivers first.Chambers has good
potential and I can't wait to see him in Cougar Uniform again scoring TDs.
Re: Utah'95 "Let's review where these quarterbacks ended their college
careers after they left BYU ...I wish you luck in your future, Jake, but
unfortunately history suggests that you will not have a memorable post-BYU
career. Work hard and beat the odds!" Very insightful post. I couldn't
agree with you any more. Amazing what athletes like Jake "perceive" in
themselves when they've been stroked their entire life.
Let's review where these quarterbacks ended their college careers after they
left BYU:Miller - MontanaMartini - San Jose StateMortgage - University of San DiegoDiva - HawaiiSorenson - Southern
UtahHartwig - Cal-LutheranOlsen - UCLASpencer - Montana
StateVye - San Jose StateCooper - Snow CollegeJensen - Utah
StateBower - McNeese StateKimball - Utah StateOnly one
of them, Ben Olsen, went to a comparable program (trust me, I'm not trying to
start a debate about how BYU compares to UCLA or other BCS programs). All of
the other athletes took a step (or two) down.While several found
success at lower division programs, most didn't have careers that most sports
fans can remember.A few played professional football at some level,
but most did not.A few were drafted by the NFL, but none had what
most of us would consider "NFL careers."I wish you luck in
your future, Jake, but unfortunately history suggests that you will not have a
memorable post-BYU career. Work hard and beat the odds!
Well it looks like BYU will join the Big 12 after all. Well kind of.Heaps
might be on is on his way to put on a Jayhawk uniform.
Earth to Bluto!"Do you remember BYU's National Championship, 17
National Awards, including Heisman and Outlands?"No, I wasn't even
born"Do you remember BYU's 23 Conference Championships in the
Modern Era?"What defines the modern era? Are you talking
post-industrial era? post Civil War era? What are you talking about? Sports
records shows that Utah has 24 conference titles which is greater than BYU's 23.
"Or BYU's Consensus National Championship?"No, I
wasn't born"Do you remember ESPN televising 11 BYU games, This
Year?"No, I don't watch mid-majors play WAC teams. Although I did
watch BYU getting run out of their own stadium by a Pac-12 opponent. "ESPN does, they know who the poser wannabee is in these parts. UTAH.2nd or 3rd fiddle, always will be".In case you forgotten, ESPN is
now best friends with the Pac-12 starting next year. ESPN will throw BYU on
Thursday and Friday nights and slot the big boys during prime time TV. "Now enjoy your bottomfeeder status in the Pac 10+, in All
Sports!"Now enjoy playing with yourselves and all those high
school gym schools in the WCC (Wannabe in the Conference of Champions)
@Bluto"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to
repeat it".Or better yet, those who don't even acknowledge the
past are certainly doomed to repeat it.54-10. 7 out of the last 10.
@crowntown1 I'll take that bet. Having watch Heaps under pressure,
I'd be willing to bet we never hear his name again.
After looking at some of those old photos...I think the bigger issue here is
that BYU needs to return to Royal Blue uniforms. If not, at least
add some gold lining to their current uniforms so that they aren't a complete
copy cat of Utah State.
Sad thing is I am willing to bet he goes and does well whereever he transfers
to. He will get coached up and have better receivers to throw to.
From what I've seen and heard from people in the program, Jake leaving was
something that they didn't mind see happening at all. He was an overly entitled
and high maintenance 'chick'. He didn't want to put in the work he needed for
him to transition his high school success to his play in college. I
wanted Jake to be everything that he was supposed to be...still do...but he
won't ever reach his potential until he realizes that talent alone will only get
him half way there. Hope his finds that in his red-shirt year!It's
NO wonder that Bronco has his little 'coach crush' on Riley since he busted his
tail to contribute. There was never any talk of him transferring when Heaps was
named the starter. Instead, he ran the scout team at quarterback and got on the
field by being on the punt team. He just wanted to get on the field and help the
team any way he could. ANY coach loves coaching kids that give them that type of
heart and effort. I hope that EVERY quarterback and every player coming to BYU
learns from this experience! GO COUGARS!
@ dlw7Heaps was not at BYU when Chow was at BYU. Heaps is a sophomore and
Anae was the OC during his freshman year.
How many articles need to be written on this? Holy cow.He is gone.
LIVE WITH IT. He was over hyped and people should be glad he is gone. (For those
who aren't... wow.)Now please, DNEWS, STOP writing these articles!!
And what about Adam hoover who left and ended up starting at UC
@Ute's R Gr8 (delusional)Do you remember BYU's National
Championship, 17 National Awards, including Heisman and Outlands?Do you
remember BYU's 23 Conference Championships in the Modern Era?Or BYU's
Consensus National Championship?Do you remember ESPN televising 11 BYU
games, This Year?ESPN does, they know who the poser wannabee is in
these parts. UTAH.2nd or 3rd fiddle, always will be.Now enjoy
your bottomfeeder status in the Pac 10+, in All Sports!
@So. Cal Reader"I agree. I haven't heard of half of these guys.
Looking forward to the list of Top 10 Long Snappers. Face it, those selfless
guys never get any credit!" You and I rarely agree on BYU vs
Utah articles, but dude, that comment was hilarious!Kudos!
Re: The_Kaiser "What a funny article." I agree. I haven't heard of
half of these guys. Looking forward to the list of Top 10 Long Snappers. Face
it, those selfless guys never get any credit!
What a funny article.
I'd rather watch Riley than Heaps any day. Glad the coaches stuck with Riley -
and I cant wait for next season!
@Bluto"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to
repeat it". Do you remember 54 -10?2012 Repeat!Band of Lil Brothers! Like shooting fish in a barrel.
The list seems somewhat incomplete without at least a mention of Bret Engemann.
I remember two sensational second half comeback games in 2000 (Utah State and
leading the team to 5 touchdowns in the second half against Virginia). He lost
his starting position to Doman after injury. He did not transfer to another
college, instead he declared early for the NFL because of playing time. Signed
with Oakland Raiders, played in NFL Europe and the AFL. Say what you want about
Crowton's other mistakes, I maintain not maximizing Engemann's potential in 2002
and 2003 is what sank BYU during that era.
dlw7: "Coaching is not just to win games, but to help these young men reach
their potential while playing Division 1"I beg to differ.
While the university experience in general is to help young people reach their
potential, a coach's job, and every player's job, is to win games. College
sports is not supposed to be a farm system for the pros, and it is a shame that
the NCAA has allowed that to be the focus. As a result, there is a lot of
inverted thinking among some fans about Jake. His job was to help the Cougars
win. In exchange, he gets a free education at the best university in the world.
Like countless unsung BYU athletes over the years have shown, you don't have to
be the star to do that. If it's all about Jake, then it's better that he go
I think his best shot is to go to a competitive d-II school and hope to start as
a big fish in a little pond. I believe that would deprive him of the one year
sitting in the corner requirement. It is interesting that a poster
reported here that O'Niel Chambers was the author of the
practical-joke-in-poor-taste of emptying Jake's locker. O'Niel fell on the
wrong side, paid his dues, and earned his way back onto the team. If the
problem for Jake really is lack of patience and a sense of entitlement, perhaps
a red shirt year and some hard work and soul searching here are a better
alternative than going there, wherever there is.
Heaps had his shot. He only had 2 good games where he produced higher than
average stats (Colorado State and Utep both in 2010). Jake was very average at
BYU over his 2 year career. If he is such an amazing QB he would have proven
it. We all waited patiently. I watched him over-throw receivers all year long
and found myself yelling at the Telivision Set during the Utah State game for
the Coaches to bench Jake. I know I'm not the only fan that was yelling that
day. After 5 lackluster games it was time for change. Enter Riley Nelson.
Best of Luck to Jake at his next school.Bring on Nelson, Hill and
If Jake saw a future at BYU he would be staying. Period. Jake has a big arm and
that arm is for hire right now. Somebody is going to get a heck of a good QB.
Big arms at QB don't matter at BYU anymore... just fast little legs!
.... and never heard of half of these guys. Can't wait for the DN to come out
with their Top 10 rankings of long snappers & team managers. These selfless
dudes never receive any recognition. Instead of these nonsense-type of articles
(how many "lists" can there be?), why not start a series of
"where are they now" and get the readers and Cougs fans caught up on
some of the BYU legends. DN could start with Eldon "The Phantom"
Fortie, from my neck of the woods. His name is on the ring of honor at the
stadium and his #40 has been retired, but few fans probably know much about him.
He's lived a fascinating life since his playing days, and was recently released
from the San Diego Temple Presidency. Let's get a Doug Robinson classic on the
life and times of Eldon Fortie!
Perhaps Heaps realized with the Brandon Doman type of offense he would never
reach his potential and likely not play unless Nelson was hurt. Coaching is not
just to win games, but to help these young men reach their potential while
playing Division 1. Sometime personalities do not mesh and maybe Heaps thought
playing for someone else would be better for his particular talent. He did well
enough when Chow was at still at BYU. It's hard to figure why readers would
throw rocks at Heaps and lavish praise on Nelson who bailed out on USU.
Jake Heaps leaves BYU for the same reason Riley Nelson left Utah State. However,
I seriously doubt Jake Heaps will have the success Riley Nelson is enjoying.Meanwhile, Jake Heaps was foolish to leave before the bowl game where he
could have been a good backup for Riley Nelson who just might get injured (if
history repeats).Was there another good reason Jake Heaps left
before the bowl game or was it just a bruised ego?
You have been measured and found wanting. Try elsewhere.
Competition is a wonderful thing. College QBs should win their spot on the basis
of achievement and should not be anointed. Some of the disappointment can be
traced to the athlete's parents and their efforts to promote their sons by
unrealistically shopping them around, hiring a press agent, etc. In general,
coaches are better than parents at deciding on who starts.
You forgot about Eric Krysmarsic (not sure of the spelling). Heaps is too
egotisical to stay at the Y.
My unscientific take on what I just read is that while many have gone on to nice
careers and stats at other schools and a handful have seen action beyond college
the simple truth is that none have gone on to greatness- the hall of famers and
NFL types have been at BYU and the coaches (not this group yet) have identified
them and had them on the field- who knows maybe they missed on a couple and one
of these guys would have been better but the overall picture says you have a
50-50 chance of doing much at all if you leave and a close to zero chance of
becoming anything special- maybe Jake can become the N=1 that changes all of
that- power to him if he does
If that is your pipeline of QB's that everyone is so excited about, better hang
your hat on Hill now and Mangum in the future. Since we haven't seen them in
meaningful action, let's hope they are up to the "hype". If Munns is
so good, is there a reason he has been 4th on the depth charts for the past
coule of years. Olsen and Kursea, really.............while good in HS, they are
not even the best this state has produced in recent years.
It is not too late to come back Jake but you must redshirt 2012. You will sit
one year with other Div I school but will have to battle other guys starting
2013 who are ahead of you - you know what I mean. Look at all those former BYU
guys who have traveled were not so successful and you don't want that. Jake made
a mistake leaving BYU but it is not too late. Is it you or someone else idea
about leaving BYU? I hope Jake was reading this article that will rethink of
what he is going to do. You think he is reading this, I don't know. Good luck
I think that leaving BYU is not a good idea for Jake Heap. He gained tremendous
experience while at BYU. If he stayed at BYU he would have red shirted next
year. By transferring he has to sit out next season anyway. Jake
has a clear path to starting at BYU in 2013 and 2014.As I understand
it Jake planned to play at BYU for two years and then go into the NFL. There
was no room for a mission. Jake was the big dog in high school. He had
unrealistic expectations. It appears that he also has no patience. Jim McMahon sat out his junior year after beating out Marc Wilson. Jim was
clearly the better QB. Doug Scovill turned both QB's into amazing players.I wish Jake nothing but the best. Perhaps he will learn many lessons
from this and future experiences.
It's not too late to change your mind. Mistakes happen.Time will
tell if this turns out to be a good decision but odds are, especially after
reading this article, it is not. Good luck to Jake. Time
to move on, after all, this was his choice to make.
Todd Mortensen and Brad Sorenson could not play on the D1 level. Mortensen had
no arm and had his shot. And saying Sorenson is a BYU transfer is a joke. He
walked on to BYU and played for the scout team for one season.
Who cares? It's basketball season.
Glad to see Jake leave. I can now watch a byu game and hope the quarterback does
well. Riley is fun to watch and his Favre-like style brings in more wins than a
straight drop back and pass routine brought in for Heaps. Funniest
thing...Nelson´s deep ball has been more accurate than Heaps.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it". Santayana
Poyman, I think Jake knows exactly what he is doing. I think he
knows that he will not play another down at BYU and this is why he is moving on.
He knew that he was not going to win the starting job even after redshirting a
year. He saw the writing on the wall. Quarterback is a unique position. Barring
injuries, only one guy gets to play. Jake wants to play and I respect him for
that. Sitting on the bench isn't what these guys are about.
@poyman,I doubt that "BYU would have made him famous in 2013
and 2014" because -- given Bronco's eagerness to start Nelson against
Hawai'i and the QB pipeline that CougFaninTX listed -- I don't see how Heaps
would have started another game at BYU. He fumbled his chance here as badly as
he fumbled the ball into the end zone during the Utah game. His history
obviates his future against the other QBs as a BYU starter.
I agree with omitting Heaps from this listing of "best of BYU quarterbacks
that left the program."
Jake, in my opinion is making a mistake by leaving BYU.... I
understand that he has to feel pretty beaten up by what has transpired this year
but I know that if he had the internal strength to weather a red shirt year next
year he would be the starter and a star at a school known for great QBs in his
last two years of Eligibility... He knows the BYU system, he knows and even
helped recruit the Receivers, and most of all he knows the coaches.... BYU would have made him famous in 2013 and 2014 and it probably would have
made him a high round NFL draft pick in 2015.... Now, he is going to have to sit
out a year and compete against a group of unknown recruits or existing roster
players and he is going to have to adapt to a new system with a new group of
coaches.... I wish him well but I really think that he has picked a
much tougher road.
I wish Jake Heaps nothing but the best with his transfer, but history is not on
his side. Most transfers have not come close to reaching their potential. But
many QB's who fought through adversity, and stayed put have achieve true
greatness - McMahon and Young for starters and Riley Nelson most recently.
Someething tells me that if Jake would have put his ego aside and stuck around
he would have had stellar Junior and Senior sesasons.Instead of
Heaps to look forward to, we have Munns, Hill, Olsen, Kuresa and Mangum - a
pretty strong pipeline of talent.