Comments about ‘Daniel C. Peterson: Gingrich is wrong; Palestinians are not 'invented'’

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Published: Wednesday, Dec. 14 2011 6:55 a.m. MST

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BobP
Port Alice, B.C.

Peterson is making a habit of getting it wrong. His pro Islamic sentiments are getting in the way of his historical accuracy.

1. Prior to the disintegration of the Ottoman Empire in WWI Palestine waas a province of the Empire. One of several that had Arabs in them. There was no distinction made for Arabs, Christian, Jews, Bedouin or anything else.

2. When the British took over in WWI they had already promised a national home for the Jews in Palestine, which at that time included Trans Jordan and the Golan Heights, part of Lebanon but not the Gaza strip (that was part of Egypt).

3. In the 1920s pan Arab nationalism arose and the British in a monumental error made one Haj Amin al Husseini Mufti of Jerusalem. al Hussein created the Palestinian idea. Throughout the 1920s and 1930s riots, insurrections and civil war was encouraged by al Husseini and his ilk.

4. In 1935 or 1936 The British ran him out of Palestine and he found a home and a cause in Nazi Germany. He aided and advised in the establishment of the Holocaust. He raised two divisions of Bosnian Muslims to serve the SS.

BobP
Port Alice, B.C.

By the way Dr. Peterson, Morrocco is not Arab it is Berber.

Jabra Ghneim
BOUNTIFUL, UT

Port Alice, your arguments just re-hash the cliches and arguments that pro-Israel, Anti-Arab, right wingers, dig out when confronted by truths and facts. These arguments not only fail to respond to Dan Petersen's arguments but they are intellectually dishonest as well as they fail to explain the historical background. As Dr. Petersen made a sufficient argument against Gingrich's miserable attempt at appeasing the Jewish lobby and AIPAC, I will proceed to put your points in proper historical perspective.

1. Your first point was answered adequately by Dr. Petersen. I will add though that Arabs, even under the Turks, always distinguished themselves by nationality. The area constituting Lebanon, Syria, Palestine and Jordan were always called Al Sham (if you were in those countries you were called a Shami), Saudi, the other Gulf emirates & Yemen were always called Al Hijaz (if you lived here you were a Hijazi), if you lived in Iraq you were called an Iraqi. Egypt was always Masr and the rest of the Arab North Africa was called Al Maghreb. There were other regional distinctions that I will not go into here due to lack of space.

(..Continued below)

Jabra Ghneim
BOUNTIFUL, UT

2. I cannot believe that you actually condone the fact that the British gifted a country they occupied and did not own to a people who already were citizens of Europe. I won't go into why that was so anti-semitic by the British but I will add that the British promised the Arabs of Hijaz and Al Sham that if they helped them defeat the Turks they will give them autonomy over all Arab lands. When the war was won the British and the French committed the ultimate act of dishonesty and treason by becoming the new occupiers of the Arab region.

3. Haj Amin. YES, Arabs supported Nazi Germany but it was not out of support for the Anti-Jewish propaganda. It was out of sympathy towards the Germans who the Arabs felt were betrayed by the British and other WWI allies in the treaty of Versailles. If you recall, the British split Germany in a similar manner to the manner by which they split the Arab region among themselves.

(Cont.)

Jabra Ghneim
BOUNTIFUL, UT

4. And finally, As far as Haj Amin's call for action against the British let us not forget that these were acts of a man whose country was occupied. Let me also remind you that the Arabs were helpless and were killed by the dozens by the British. The real killing of the British was caused by the Zionist Jews which culminated in the King David Hotel massacre committed by the Aragon gangs lead by the late Manchem Begen who was Prime Minister of Israel.

Jabra Ghneim
BOUNTIFUL, UT

One more thin. Please watch a video on YT called The General's Son by Miko Peled.

one old man
Ogden, UT

Italy had Berlisconi. America can have Gingerich.

If nothing else, it will be more entertaining than any cruddy "reality" TV show.

nick
Provo, UT

Dr. Peterson, as usual, is brilliant. He combines some very amazing qualities. He is a great speaker as well as a great writer. Quite often those talents do not reside in the same person. Finally, his intellectual firepower, and sound logic and reasoning are impeccable. Thanks.

Mike in Cedar City
Cedar City, Utah

Glad a real scholar cleared that up. Gingrich is the one that is newly being "invented".

AltaDog
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

Historically Arabs had no national identity. National identity is a western view. Arabs have always identified themselves by tribe. While I'm not much of a Newt supporter his comments about Palestinians is correct.

Verdad
Orem, UT

Historically, NOBODY had much of a national identity. Dr. Peterson points out in this very article that nationalism as we know it originated in Europe, basically in the nineteenth century. But it spread to the Middle East within a few decades.

The Germans used to identify themselves by tribe, too. That doesn't demonstrate that there are no Germans.

Ronnie W.
Layton, UT

It seems to me the Deseret News has been Mitt Romney's paper for a long time.
I encourage people not to blind themselves from any weaknesses in a candidate. Newt has many, as does Mitt. Romney is a flip flopper, nothing more. He isn't as bad as most liberal paint hin-but "not that bad" is no qualifier for being a president. There is one man with a consistent message in a republican party. Can you guess who?

Mad Hatter
Provo, UT

Re: Ronnie W. | 7:00 p.m. Dec. 13, 2011
Layton, UT

Jon Huntsman?

Esquire
Springville, UT

Gingrich has a habit of making things up. Nevertheless, it begs the point. The Palestinians now exist and have for quite a long time. They are a sizable group that is identifiable and has cohesiveness. To say that they are a made up nation or people is like saying the United States is a made up nation and should therefore not be recognized. It is nonsense, does not reflect reality, and evades dealing with the problem. If this is the way Gingrich evaluates issues and leads, he is unfit to lead the nation, let alone be a responsible teacher in the classroom.

Tekakaromatagi
Dammam, Saudi Arabia

Israel is an invented country. They should call themselves Judah because that is who their ancestors were. They are primarily from the tribe of Judah. Israel is the other 10 tribes who were lost, and will return if the Bible is correct.

Boy will they be upset when they find out what is being done in their name.

Whether or not the Palestinians are an invented people, they are the people whose houses and fields have been taken by 'Israel'. They are the ones whose grandmothers have keys to houses when they fled in 1948 when they were driven out.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "The Germans used to identify themselves by tribe, too. That doesn't demonstrate that there are no Germans."

True enough, but Arabs, in particular, and Muslims in general -- to this day -- are governed much more by tribal, religious, and familial politics than by any national identity. Legislative assemblies, to the extent they function at all in modern Islamic nations, are typically divided, either de jure or de facto, into departments or factions, open to and representative of a single tribe, family, or religious sect. Many Arab Bedu even serve proudly and well in the Israeli Defense Forces, since their tribal leaders command it.

The same is not true of modern Germany -- though one might argue Belgium, Bosnia, and even Canada suffer from modern forms of tribalism.

It's this concept that Mr. Gingrich's comment addresses. Arab nationalists, pan-Arabs, and Islamists have crafted a mythical "Palestinian" identity in a cynical attempt to create a victim about which they can unite disparate tribal interests and identities.

But, in reality, it boils down to hatred for Jews and Israel.

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

"But, in reality, it boils down to hatred for Jews and Israel"..as opposed to the Jews what?

History lessons aside..why would anyone interviewing for the job of the worlds chief peace promoter say something that only has one consequence..yes dear, those pants do make your butt look bigger..what? If you don't know the truth how are you ever going to deal with it..slam!..dear now open the door so we can talk about it, how am I ever going to help you from outside in the cold?

southmtnman
Provo, UT

No matter how Peterson tries to obscure it, he essentially just confirmed what Newt said. The Palestinian State is a fiction, making them an invented people.

Brian
Wasilla, AK

Thank you Jabra Ghneim for demonstrating that it is possible to post multiple comments while still only single spacing!

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

So, just to be sure I understand some of the arguments posted above. It is okay to take land from tribes that have lived in an area for centuries, but not from citizens of a nation that have lived there for much less time.

Is that the argument? Tribal means no property rights despite a relatively long history but nation means property rights despite a relatively short history?

Does this mean the size of the group or what we call it makes the difference?

Aren't tribes extended families? Do we not respect families?

What about Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Were not the promises to them made when they were still tribes?

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