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Comments about ‘Journalists urged to allow Mormons to define themselves’

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Published: Thursday, Dec. 8 2011 5:07 p.m. MST

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mightymite
DRAPER, UT

I am not a mormon and dang proud about that. It does not define me as a person but wanted everyone to to know....

sharrona
layton, UT

Re:Freedom-In-Danger, " Let Us make man in Our Image image and our likeness (Genesis 1:26)So God created man in his Own(spiritual) Image of God created he him Male and Female(Genesis 1:27). If there were more than one God it would read in Their image. The Trinity in the O.T..

Psalm 82:1 "God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. ",Psalm 82:6 "Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.", John 10:34 "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, *Ye are gods?"
Answered by James Talmage . Divinely Appointed judges Called gods, Psalm 82:6, judges(Men) invested by appointment are called gods. Jesus the Christ p. 501. * Ye are gods, present tense not even Mormons believe they are gods right, now.

Acts 17:29 "we are the offspring of God" Acts 17:28, for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, For we are also His offspring. Creation is dependant on God for its very existence.

Michigander
Westland, MI

"Define us by who we are and by our central beliefs rather than who we are not or by obscure or irrelevant beliefs,"

These obscure and irrelevant beliefs are just as important as the central beliefs, because as it is written in 2nd John 1:9: "whosoever transgresseth and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ hath not God." These obscure and irrelevant beliefs are heresies, and more and more people throughout this nation are finding this out.

Bill in Nebraska
Maryville, MO

Sharrona: I hate to say this to you but OUR is plural meaning more than one. If it was to read the way you want it to read it would say MY. Their, our and them, GODS are plural. This is plain and simple english. Therefore, when it says in our image refers to more than one individual. Taken by the LDS meaning this would be God the Father, and then the Son. Did you know that Jesus means Jehovah.

Again image is exactly that. Image. It is the same as me or you looking in the mirror. We see our image. Notice how I used we (plural) and our (plural).

In your reasoning, Christ has given up his resurrected body which he showed to the twelve apostles after he was resurrected. Therefore, it is safe to say that we too will be resurrected where our SPIRIT will be rejoined with our body.

In another reasoning, you stated God spoke and showed himself to Paul on the road to Damascus. This too is incorrect because Paul upon seeing the light requested who are you. He was answered by I am Jesus Christ who thou prosecutest.

skeptic
Phoenix, AZ

@WTZ

Has the Mormon church changed its doctrine on who is a gentile. I had read that the Mormon believe was that all non-Mormons are gentiles, and of course this would include the Jews who are non-Mormon. But now other Mormon posters are stating that is not true. So we know who are the Mormons, but who are the gentiles. I hope you can explain, I would like to know the correct answer. THX.

wrz
Salt Lake, UTah

@ClarkKent:

"Who gets to decide if a belief is obscure or irrelevant? Heck if it is a BELIEF, how could it be irrelevant?"

Some beliefs carry much more weight than others. For example, the church's prohibition against adultery is very serious. Yet obeying the LDS's 'Word of Wisdom' about imbibing probably carries way less weight in terms of relevancy.

"And do I get to decide if a belief is irrelevant, such as alcohol consumption?"

You can... and I doubt the church would notice. An ecclesiastical leader may suggest you may wish to abstain, and for a number of reasons including, keeping your family intact.

@Utter Nonsense 5:25 p.m.:

"The Mormon church is the only one that claims to be led by a prophet that speaks to God."

I think almost all churches have leaders (prophets, etc.) that speak to God.

"Therefore, the doctrine should not change unless God was wrong in the first place."

The Bible message changed from the Old to the New Testament. Was the God of the OT wrong?

@skeptic:

"Has the Mormon church changed its doctrine on who is a gentile."

How should I know what a Gentile is?

kevlaur
APO, AE

Freedom from danger,
You 'worship' in the vain hope that someday a whole planet of people will worship you.
Genesis states 'image.' The 'our' is referring to the tri-une God. Read the entire chapter of Psalm 82 and tell me what you think is meant by 'gods' in this chapter.
Remove the veil from your eyes - Christ is the one true God; there are no others.

Gramajane
OAKLEY, ID

Maybe this will help -- a basic diet belief would be to eat more fruits n veggies in season, whole grains and to eat meat sparingly. But a peripheral diet belief might be that chewing gum is not part of a healthy diet.
--- will it make any huge difference if one chews gum even quite often? Not likely - right? But what if one refruses to eat any veggies but eats all overprocessed products like Twinkes, white balloon bread and mega meat-- I sure think so!

sharrona
layton, UT

Re: Bill in Nebraska, Did you know that Jesus means Jehovah?

The spelling Jehovah appeared first during the 1762-1769 editing of the KJV Bible. The transcription Jehovah is nothing but a misunderstanding by Christian translators of Jewish reading traditions." JS saw the KJV not Jesus. Google Tetragrammaton. YHWH Before Abraham, I(Ego) Am(eimi).

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.(John 1:1,14). God became man, not man became God. See (Mosiah 7:27)explains the pre- incarnation of Jesus(Virgin Birth).

God[is]spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.(John 4:24) And The Holy Ghost/Spirit,same Greek word(Pneuma) .
So prior to the incarnation all 3 persons of the Trinity were spirit. Therefore,Image (Eikon G. 1504)1. used of the Moral likeness of renewed men to God.
(Paul)My companions saw the light, but they did not understand the voice of him who was speaking to me(Acts 22:9 NIV) You need a modern translation.

A voice of Reason
Salt Lake City, UT

kevlaur,

You stated, "You 'worship' in the vain hope that..."

1) That's a pretty wild claim, isn't it? To say that another human being believes something out of pure selfish motivation. I know without any doubt that God has commanded us not to judge each other.

2) Joseph Smith so well outlined in the Lectures on Faith- that thing which is most desirable to the righteous- even what is the very root of all faith is to know that we are clean, righteous, and ultimately most accepted (my wording) to our Father in Heaven. That He is pleased with us.

3) The truth is that God has an eternal plan for us. We are indeed His children. We are His family. The body's of the righteous will be made like His someday. The righteous will return to Him, to be like Him. ALL of this is in the Bible. Our belief in those exact words is not a lie. Rejecting the word of God is the only lie here, which is a lie to ones self.

4) The ACTUAL doctrine outlined in the King Follett Discourse is that we only glory IN ORDER to eternally glorify our God.

skeptic
Phoenix, AZ

In Mormon related literature there are references to the modern use of Mormons viewing non-Mormons as gentiles. It seems there is a difference of interprtation of what a gentile is in Mormon speak. It appears not everyone understands the church's religious believes in the same way when explaining them to others. One expained that for Mormons a gentile is everyone who is not a Mormon and that is why Jesus was baptisted by proxy in the Mormon temple. Is this correct.

Jeff
Temple City, CA

@ skeptic: Where do you get this stuff? Calling non-Mormons "Gentiles" is an old slang convention. It is not and never was a doctrine. Mormons themselves often laugh at the irony of calling Jews "Gentiles." As slang, it probably still exists in some heavily Mormon places, but it is hardly universal. The baptism of Jesus Christ was well documented; if He were ever baptized for the dead in a Mormon temple it would have to be regarded as a silly mistake.

@ kevlaur: Of course Latter-day Saints believe that through the atonement of Christ they can become gods. It's in the Doctrine and Covenants for the whole world to see. We believe that the doctrine is present in the Bible. You clearly disagree with us about it. You probably wouldn't be comfortable being a Mormon. We prefer to define those doctrines ourselves, however. If you grew up to be like your Daddy, would that negate him or validate him? We think it validates Him and brings glory to His name.

We believe in the divinity of Christ. Someone must have misinformed you on that one.

@Michigander: Our core belief is Christ as Savior. I don't think that's heresy.

Bill in Nebraska
Maryville, MO

Sharrona: First off you didn't answer my question. You bypassed it entirely in dismissing Joseph Smith. Again the question: Did you know that Jesus in Hebrew means Jehovah?

Skeptic: Whoever told you that someone was proxy for Jesus in a LDS Temple is a liar. You will find that the LDS Church teaches that Jesus went in search of John the Baptist as he was the only righteous High Priest of the Aaronic Priesthood that could baptize him. John the Baptist was a Levi. This is well documented in the Bible of his baptism. This is well taught in every single Gospel Doctrine discussion I have ever attended in the past 50 years.

Gentiles refers to all that are not Jews. Most members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints were at one time Gentiles themselves. Once baptized into the LDS Church that are adopted into the House of Israel which is the twelve tribes of Israel. You will find that the tribe of Judah and part of the tribe of Benjamin are know as the Jews. All the other tribes are Hebrews but NOT Jews. In another thread I explained this as best I could.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan
Ypsilanti, MI

Otterson is right. The coverage of the Church by the media should give members of the Church a chance to explain what they believe. This is generally done. There are exceptions, such as Bloom's piece that used a quote from Orson Pratt as somewhow representing Church policy. I am not convinced the quote was meant to apply to politics, but I had never heard it before, so it is clearly not the teaching of the Church on the matter.

The Church has made thousands of statements on its view on how members should involve in politics, and these are what the media should turn to.

Reading the Book of Mormon is the best way to get to the truth.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan
Ypsilanti, MI

JO2,
Yet any journalist who denied the Christianity of Catholics would be denounced for a long time.

Part of the problem is that the Evangelical Christians have decided to use "Christian" as the specific denominator of their own sub-group of Christianity.

The problem is more complexed because The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints worships Christ, emphasizes bringing all to him and doing all things in his name.

Robbie512
PROVO, UT

"Define us by who we are and by our central beliefs rather than who we are not or by obscure or irrelevant beliefs."

This makes no sense to me. Ive always heard that we shouldnt judge the Church by its members, because people arent perfect, so why define us by who we are? Isn't the true mark of the Church the doctrine. And if the doctrine is perfect, why are we apologizing for it? Arent obscure or irrelevant beliefs just as true as the rest? It reminds me of the Mormonad with the ice cream and the bug: if part of its bad, throw it all out. Apologizing for some of our beliefs is sending the same message, and we shouldn't do it.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan
Ypsilanti, MI

The notion that God ordained the establishment of the constitution in no way implies he endorsed all its contents of that changing it is wrong. Any person who has seriously studied the US constitution will argue that its strongest point is the amedment system, which is both diffifult yet doable.

That said, it is also beyond reasonable to try to argue that Latter-day Saints should hold to a view of the constitution that has been rejected by the Supreme Court on the very rare occasions when it has specifically ruled on the matter. This becomes more true since many supreme court decision have directly contradicted themselves.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan
Ypsilanti, MI

God speaks to man in his own language. This means that the ritual used to convey teachs has to change as the culture of the people recieving the ritual changes.

On the totally unrelated issue of marriages, the argument that at one point marriage was limited by race is over-broad. The earliest marriage laws did not include race. Limits on marriage by race were imposed at specific times in the 1670s or so. Beyond this I live in a state that never limited marriage by race, and there are many other states like this.

Also while sex is clearly definable, race is not. The complexity and different standards by race in the laws in the states that did ban inter-racial marriage show this. Also, sex relates to the central purposes of marriage and the proper raising of children. They are best raised by their own biological parents, and the state has an interest in creating a climate that encorages that. Race, as a made up thing does not have such a helpful effect on matters or any relevance to marriage.

junkgeek
Agua Dulce, TX

Are we now allowing, then, the fundamentalist LDS churches the right to define themselves as Mormon?

awsomeron
Waianae, HI

I agree with Clark Kent.

A Mormon in Hawaii is vastly different then a Mormon in Utah. However that said the beliefs and the system are the same.

We do have a system and we do things a certain way and because of that we are organized, and we Network with one another, perhaps like no other faith group does.

Some of our differences are as mormons we don't go or not go to Church because we like or didlike the the Preacher.

We go to Church by area and at the same time and share the building with perhaps 3 other groups. Then we change meeting times each year so everyone gets a turn.

I can find my Church just be putting my address in the Worship with us section of the Church Web Site. Along with Maps, Directions, and Phone Numbers.

We are not a Cult, but we do somethings that are somewhat cult like.

The reason things are different in Hawaii is that most of the members a Not White, and we say Aloha. Some of the leaders where White Shirts, Ties, Lava Lav's and Suit Coats and Sandels. Tourist tend to get over it.

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