Comments about ‘Journalists urged to allow Mormons to define themselves’

Return to article »

Published: Thursday, Dec. 8 2011 5:07 p.m. MST

Comments
  • Oldest first
  • Newest first
  • Most recommended
ClarkKent
Bountiful, Utah

"Define us by who we are and by our central beliefs rather than who we are not or by obscure or irrelevant beliefs," Michael R. Otterson, managing director of public affairs for the LDS Church, said during a Thursday morning session of a conference called, "Politics and Religion: Getting it Right in 2012."

Why? What does this even mean? Who gets to decide if a belief is obscure or irrelevant? Heck if it is a BELIEF, how could it be irrelevant? Does it go both ways ... that Mormons won't focus on "obscure or irrelevant beliefs" of others, particularly political candidates, but instead focus on their central beliefs? If I was Mormon, do I get to ignore the church's irrelevant beliefs? And do I get to decide if a belief is irrelevant, such as alcohol consumption? You really cannot have your cake and eat it too here.

iron&clay
RIVERTON, UT

Look at the governments of the nations of the earth. When Marxists dictatorships rule, freedom to worship is stopped, penalized and restricted.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

If you want to bring religion to the table, if you want the moment to be a 'mormon moment', then suck it up. Journalists will do what they do. Otherwise, leave religion out of it, and you can define yourselves. It's not pretty, but that's the crowd you're looking to run with.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

"Define us by who we are and by our central beliefs rather than who we are not or by obscure or irrelevant beliefs," - Article

Ok.

*'LDS Church's in-kind donations to Prop. 8 total $190K' - By Lynn Arave - By Dsnews - 02/03/09

'Proposition 8 was a ballot measure in California last November that changed the state constitution to restrict the definition of marriage to opposite-sex couples and eliminated same-sex couples' right to marry.'

But...I thought Mormons were Christian?

While they were spreading the 'I am Mormon' campaign?

A voice of Reason
Salt Lake City, UT

Everyone is capable of understanding this basic principle- that our personal feelings, beliefs, motivations, and comprehensions are our own. The idea that any of these characteristics can be defined or even understood by someone else other than ourselves or our creator is false.

As this is such a basic human principle, something we understand even in childhood, the distinguishing factor between those who choose to adhere to this truth and those who do not is ignorance. This now leads us away from the principle and to how it is applied.

Those who define anyone identifying as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or the membership as a whole, or the church itself- other than how the Church or its membership would want to be defined, are doing us a disservice; according to the most basic principle I previously outlined, such persons are doing so knowingly. Is this less than hostility? Is this not an intentional attack on other human beings and what is most valuable and precious, even our own beliefs and conscious thoughts?

The Articles of Faith and Book of Mormon offer an accurate understanding of what we maintain as our beliefs.

toosmartforyou
Farmington, UT

Hopefully voters will do a little homework and not just trust whatever any particular journalist expresses as "fact." None of us are perfect, yet some would be better at politics and running the country than others, just like some are better at being doctors, carpenters, car salesmen or policemen. Vote for the person you feel would do the best job for the country, as well as for you, not just who might be thrust upon you by others.

Jonathan Eddy
Payson, UT

@Pagan

The LDS church has no reason to apologize for those values that it holds sacred and defends. You disagree. That's your prerogative. The LDS church also spends millions giving aid to those throughout the world that are suffering from the effects of natural and man made calamities. You may disagree with that too. But that is the LDS church's prerogative and I'm sure they make no apologies for that either.

Mormons seem to be pretty Christian to me.

The Caravan Moves On
Enid, OK

@ Pagan | 5:33 p.m. Dec. 8, 2011

Pagan, there will soon come a day when you will see that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints encouraging it's members to work with all their might, as well as their money, to support Proposition 8 was indeed the most Christ-like thing to do.

Yes, you will see....

Dan Maloy
Enid, OK

@ Hutterite | 5:29 p.m. Dec. 8, 2011

Hutterite -

1st of all, neither the LDS church, nor any of it's members, asked the mainstream media to turn anything into a "Mormon moment". That is what the liberal, generally anti-religion mainstream media has chosen to call the large quantity of stories they write/highlight in today's culture due to the number of high-profile Latter-day Saints (Mormons) currently involved in American politics. If you want to blame anyone for this on-going "Mormon moment", blame the media since they're the ones responsible for it.

2nd, get a clue. There is absolutely nothing wrong with an individual, or an organization of any kind, even a church, wanting to be correctly understood.

Would YOU like it if I constantly mischaracterized you and your family to the whole world and refused to allow you the opportunity to refute the falsehoods I would say?

Didn't think so....

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@The Caravan Moves On
"Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints encouraging it's members to work with all their might, as well as their money, to support Proposition 8 was indeed the most Christ-like thing to do."

If I understand LDS belief correctly, the Constitution is supposed to be upheld by its American members. Considering that Prop 8 is unconstitutional, that would seem to put things at cross-purposes. Prop 8 caused a lot of my friends to go from neutral views of the church to strongly negative. It was a contributing factor (along with members just outright condemning my political views, whether it be institute instructors, home teaching companions, home teachers, or others) to my eventually leaving the church. I don't believe violating the Constitution by attacking a group of people who actually want to make a hopefully lifelong commitment to each other helps anything. It certainly doesn't help protect marriage. I'm really not sure how it's even Christ-like since honestly I don't think Jesus was in the business of forcing people to do things a certain way; he tended to prefer showing what was right.

A voice of Reason
Salt Lake City, UT

atl134,

"the Constitution is supposed to be upheld by its American members."

The constitution isn't supposed to do anything, it's a document. This statement is best phrased as this... "Americans are supposed to uphold their constitution". I disagree with this statement. I believe that we MAKE our constitution. In fact, that isn't a belief. That's a fact. And so far, the vast majority of this country seem to believe that the words 'gay marriage' aren't found within the constitution. Oh wait, that one isn't a belief either. It's a fact.

Now, the equality premise and supreme court precedents have been argued as well and I have several arguments regarding these points also. The point is, we all have opinions on the interpretation of the document that WE ordain. But ultimately, we can amend that constitution right and left, all at once, or piece by piece. And until someone restrains my arms, silences my voice, and abuses my freedom- I am within my rights not to RECOGNIZE something.

Courts invalidating any votes based on conservative interpretation of the constitution is NOT democratic. Eventually people will stop this entitlement/Marxist equality to protect freedom. Tyranny can only survive so long.

Ms Molli
Bountiful, Utah

Jonathan Eddy | 6:25 p.m. Dec. 8, 2011
"The LDS church also spends millions giving aid to those throughout the world that are suffering from the effects of natural and man made calamities. You may disagree with that too. But that is the LDS church's prerogative and I'm sure they make no apologies for that either.
Mormons seem to be pretty Christian to me."

@Jonathan Eddy, why do you attribue giving to Christianity. Christians don't have a corner on this market. As a matter of fact, Christians are in the minority in this world. There are billions of people in this world who give to others during calamities.

Angie dolline
Salt Lake City, UT

Well, looks like a slow news day today. If you haven't noticed, someone spoke about this at the fall General conference. Someone didn't listen.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@a voice of reason
"Courts invalidating any votes based on conservative interpretation of the constitution is NOT democratic"

Establishing something unconstitutional even with majority rule is something the courts have a duty of striking down.

"And so far, the vast majority of this country seem to believe that the words 'gay marriage' aren't found within the constitution."

Marriage isn't even in the constitution, but an equal protections clause is.

xscribe
Colorado Springs, CO

I've got to think that the Mormon heirarchy is loving this. No matter what you think about the LDS Church, they are getting more press than their own ad campaign. Free advertising; you can't beat that!

Ranch
Here, UT

@VoR;

Neither is the word "marriage" found in the Constitution. Here are some words that ARE found though:

Article. IV.
Section. 1.

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. ...

Section. 2.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

---

This CLEARLY states that ALL Citizens are entitled to ALL Privileges of Citizens of this Country. It also clearly states that Public Documents from ANY state are to be recognized in EVERY state (i.e. marriage licenses; including those for glbt couples).

These words ARE found in our Constitution.

The thing is, Mormons want to define themselves, and they want to write their own history. Sadly, they want to write only the pretty pieces and leave out all the ugly step-sisters that are part and parcel to their history.

And those "obscure" beliefs are a part of the doctrines and therefore ARE worth using in the definition of what Mormonism is about. Absolutely. Own it or decannonize it.

A voice of Reason
Salt Lake City, UT

atl134,

The constitution does not state anything about protecting equality.

"Nor shall any State deprive... any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Equal protection OF THE LAWS does not mean "government treats everyone and every act as equal". If it did, there wouldn't be a minimum wage, there would be one wage for every person. We would all have to get the same exact thing from the government. This is the marxist equality I refer to. This is what liberals are pushing. And quite literally, I have just shown how it is NOT found in our constitution.

Equal protection OF THE LAW means that whatever law we write applies to everyone. Being that the constitution doesn't define marriage, recognize marriage, or anything of the like... a state may pass a law that defines marriage however it wants, and that law must apply to everyone. Right now, I can't marry a man all the same as every other man in my state. I have no more freedoms protected the state of Utah than any other male. This means that the State of Utah has satisfied our national constitution and every last right it lists for protection.

JO2
Wetumpka, AL

The argument that journalists should refer to Mormons as "Christian" is based on how wide we should draw the circle of inclusiveness around the term "Christian." For journalists, this circle should be fairly wide and include just about any group that identifies itself with Jesus Christ.
For religious groups, this argument is a bit different... Many religious groups draw a much smaller circle of inclusiveness. Many Baptists for instance do no consider Catholics to be truly "Christian" because they draw their circle of inclusiveness based on a certain idea of the basis for individual salvation. To expect these groups to define Mormons, and many others, as "Christian" is a no-win scenario.

Jonathan Eddy
Payson, UT

@ Ms Molli

"Jonathan Eddy, why do you attribue giving to Christianity. Christians don't have a corner on this market."

and.......your point?

"As a matter of fact, Christians are in the minority in this world. There are billions of people in this world who give to others during calamities."

again......your point?

You are somehow twisting words and completely going off track. Someone questioned the spending habits of the Mormon church (Prop 8)and somehow intimated that the church was spending money on non Christian-like causes. I never said "only Christians are giving and nobody else does". Let's please try to stay on subject.

skeptic
Phoenix, AZ

The problem with asking Mormons to define themselves is that Mormonism and the LDS church is in constant change. What was preached yesterday is not what is preached today and it will still be different tomorrow, what history and scripture is not changed is down played or not acknowledged. It is not easy to define or understand; and if one has a fair understanding of its entirety then it is hard to believe.

to comment

DeseretNews.com encourages a civil dialogue among its readers. We welcome your thoughtful comments.
About comments