The skinny on a supposed jeans ban at BYU-Idaho


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  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    Dec. 10, 2011 3:44 p.m.

    That is BYU, not BYU-Idaho. You need to pay closer attention, this rule is at BYU-Idaho. On the other hand, neither school makes people wear clothing to the knees and covering the arms while swimming. Rules are clearly activity specific.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    Dec. 10, 2011 3:15 p.m.

    BYU-Idaho has every right to enforce rules that require daily shaving. Refusing people tests on this ground is reasonable.

    On the other hand it is unwise for employees of the university to seek to enforce policies ahead of the university.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    Dec. 10, 2011 2:44 p.m.

    I know this will cause some negative reactions, but I want to say I think skinny jeans are a bad idea. People should avoid wearing clothes that fit too tightly. I think too often church members figure if there is clothing there they are modest, when in fact some clothing is so tight that it actually makes things worse by leaving nothing to the imagination.

  • K Mchenry, IL
    Dec. 9, 2011 9:44 p.m.

    "The 'keep off the grass' campaign was due to students cutting corners off the sidewalks and leaving well-worn paths during fall and spring, then especially during those sub-zero mornings on the Rexburg hill. Those little snow trails were more fun than salted concrete.

    Imagine that, students wanting to take the straightest path possible to get to class in the 10 minutes alloted..."

    University planners should place sidewalks where they see people making them in the grass.

    Why are flip flops immodest? What about sandals that look flip floppy? What about a shoe with wedge bottom and a flip floppy top? A person could go crazy looking at their closet trying to figure it out.

  • K Mchenry, IL
    Dec. 9, 2011 8:31 p.m.

    It's not about standards but made up standards.

    Are they adults or kids? A person isn't turned away from business meeting if their skirt is above the knee. This is not the world of work. Sounds more like a high school.

    Have those turned away show up at a dean to back up or be critical of the staff sending the student away.

  • Ms.W South Jordan, UT
    Dec. 9, 2011 5:15 p.m.

    There's a double standard here. BYU cheerleaders can wear super short mini skirts during a football game in front of thousands of people, and BYU has no problem with it. I don't want to hear the excuse, it's for sports only. If they're going to set a standard, set it for the entire school, including cheerleaders. This skinny pant ban idea is ridiculous.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Dec. 9, 2011 2:52 p.m.

    When I went to Ricks in the late 70's, girls were just allowed to wear denim pants. I recall those Ditto jeans that made women's curves look good. When I worked in the testing Center in 1980/81 the only people we even looked at were the males that had hair way too long. One guy went in the bathroom, wet his down, combed it back and took his test. No problem. The problem with these testing center folks are that they are to anal retentive and should be fired. What's the difference between tight pants and the gym outfits the girls wear? None. They need an attitude adjustment. This type of myopic rule interpretation is made by those following Satan's plan (remember D&C 121). Not Jesus' plan.

  • ennayr Papillion, NE
    Dec. 9, 2011 1:34 p.m.

    To go to any of BYU's colleges you need to sign to agree to the honor code. If you can't abide by it then choose another school. I went to BYU and visited the testing center many times and was never turned away so it can be done. I did have a friend get turned away for their 5 o'clock shadow though. Perhaps they should hand out disposable razors.

  • Softball Dad Woods Cross, UT
    Dec. 9, 2011 1:00 p.m.

    No skinny jeans? But wearing a skirt to your knees, showing off your legs would be okay?

    The thing that has always bothered me since my days at BYU, is the way that the Honor Code has changed. (Note: I never had an honor code violation that kept me out of the testing ctr.) The grooming portion of the honor was initiated by a student council in the 60s when beards were a symbol of the rebellious "flower child" era. They wanted to stand apart from this and said they wanted the grooming standard. Now my problem, what was brought on by students is no longer under control of the students. Beards no longer are symbols of rebellion yet to get that standard changed is impossible. Why not return control of these items to the students? (Contrary to what many think college age adults are capable of being reasonable.)

  • Sarah B SLC, UT
    Dec. 9, 2011 12:56 p.m.

    Since when does the Strength of Youth say capris are immodest? This ridiculous attitude is making them the laughing stock of the world. They have a very self righteous attitude there, like they're morally superior to everyone else. Sad fact is they have a culture not unlike the polygamous cults. They also follow a "higher" standard than the rest of the church. They isolate them and demand strict obedience to ridiculous rules. Something needs to be done, seriously. If it's okay to wear at BYU, Temple Square etc. it's okay to wear in Rexburg.

  • ClarkKent Bountiful, Utah
    Dec. 9, 2011 12:36 p.m.

    Does this skinny jeans ban fall under the notion in the other article today, "Define us by who we are and by our central beliefs rather than who we are not or by obscure or irrelevant beliefs," Michael R. Otterson, managing director of public affairs for the LDS Church, said" ..

  • RevK Glenwood, UT
    Dec. 9, 2011 11:17 a.m.

    Just buy your own jeans, and quit wearing your girlfriends. They dont fit you!

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Dec. 9, 2011 9:22 a.m.

    This LDS obsession with clothes, hair etc is now reflected in what color of shirt many/most men wear to church. A white shirt is deemed the preferred uniform. Most of my life in the Church facial hair or longer hair was acceptable. Now it is not permitted for men in leadership positions or for those administering the sacrament.

    Seriously, this is getting ridiculous, a result of simpletons looking for a superficial measure of "obedience."

  • BalancedFulfilledLife MISSOURI CITY, TX
    Dec. 9, 2011 8:46 a.m.

    I had a great experience at BYU-Provo, as did five of my siblings. One of my sisters attended both BYU-I (then Ricks) and BYU-Provo, and she loved both. People are not perfect. Some might overstep their bounds (whether that means the testing center employee or the student is for you to decide), but those experiences for me paled in scope and frequency to the amazing opportunity of learning at an institution that harmonizes faith and academics. When something controversial arises, you have a choice. You can be offended and spread venom (as the employee or the student) or you can open your heart to God and see if HE has something to teach you.

  • oldschool Farmington, UT
    Dec. 9, 2011 8:28 a.m.

    John Dexter sounds like the sort of guy who drives exactly the speed limit in the fast lane in order to enforce the letter of the law. Stick to your job, brother, and let others abide by Satan's plan, which was to force others to do good.

  • Zoniezoobie Mesa, AZ
    Dec. 9, 2011 8:27 a.m.

    ps - The 'keep off the grass' campaign was due to students cutting corners off the sidewalks and leaving well-worn paths during fall and spring, then especially during those sub-zero mornings on the Rexburg hill. Those little snow trails were more fun than salted concrete.

    Imagine that, students wanting to take the straightest path possible to get to class in the 10 minutes alloted...

  • Zoniezoobie Mesa, AZ
    Dec. 9, 2011 8:20 a.m.

    JohninSLC great post, how to enforce free agency? lol!!!

    When I was at Ricks, we did have a campaign complete with lawn signs and buttons to wear "I keep off the grass and I'm glad I do!"

    I loved it for the double-meaning.

    I would add, isn't the honor code, like 'the honor system'? You put out a box of apples, post a sign 25-cents each, and expect folks to deal honestly with you...

  • Mikhail ALPINE, UT
    Dec. 9, 2011 7:42 a.m.

    One of my all time favorite testing center stories occurred back in the early eighties, while I was at BYU. At the time, jeans were prohibited for girls. One girl showed up in jeans at the testing center and was refused. She promptly went into the bathroom and removed her jean, taking the test without pants, but with a long coat to cover her. She reported this in the Daily Universe.

    I find the "Spirit of Ricks College" to be contrary to the expressed desire to teach people correct principles and to let them govern themselves. I support standards. I reject arbitrary interpretation of standards. Banning capri length shorts in Rexburg and accepting them at the campuses of the Universities with the same written standards is an example of the arbitrary selection of standards. Being from Idaho, I understand how Idahoans feel superior in their spiritual commitment. Think about it a little more, brethren and sisters.

  • Madden Herriman, UT
    Dec. 9, 2011 7:35 a.m.

    "Go pray about it - and if you don't get the same response as I did, then you didn't pray about it!"

    That is the worst, most insincere form of hypocrisy. I'm very concerned about the testing center director.

  • cpafred SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 11:06 p.m.

    If you desire or need a militaristic environment with lots of rules and where many decisions about what to wear, etc. are made for you, then I suggest you attend a school like the Citadel or a CES school. If you dont enjoy that type of environment or feel you may learn more elsewhere, then go elsewhere.
    The members of my family have attended 7 universities (BYU and six others). As to the quality of education received, I think the higher-ranked (i.e., first-tier) institutions provide a better education. As to overall college experience, BYU is near the bottom of the list (according to my family members).
    No reason to fret though, you can have your cake and eat it too. Schools like UC Berkeley, for example, will provide an exceptional educational experience in every aspect and there is an excellent thriving institute program less than a block off-campus. In fact, there are thriving institute programs full of exceptional Mormon students at most top-rated universities.
    CES school provide a relatively good, cheap education, but you can get a great education and surround yourself with Mormon kids (outside of class) elsewhere.

  • Bob Pomeroy Bisbee, AZ
    Dec. 8, 2011 10:42 p.m.

    This is a formal public representation of essential values? How embarrassing that must be. ...when I was a child .... "Excluding" doesn't seem a Gospel doctrine.

  • SS MiddleofNowhere, Utah
    Dec. 8, 2011 10:39 p.m.

    While I appreciate modest clothing and high standards, I think it is in the best interest of the students to let them learn a little on their own. College is supposed to be a maturing, learning, and growing experience. When things are this strict there is no room for strengthening a testimony, or learning for ones self. If you slip up and where flip flops you are punished, wow?! Teenagers will learn nothing of the world if they are shipped from the watchful eye of their parents to the watchful eye of BYU-I with someone breathing down their neck all of the time. A kids gotta grow up and make his/her own decision sometime and the longer you prevent them from doing so you are just crippling them for the future when mommy and daddy and even their school won't be there to tell them what to do.

  • trekker Salt Lake, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 10:19 p.m.

    by byu-i code with facial hair alone Brigham Young wouldn't be allowed to test there!

  • trekker Salt Lake, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 10:10 p.m.

    Go BYU - Spud!

  • Bebyebe UUU, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 9:56 p.m.

    The test center employees are allowed to judge students w/r to the honor code? Who else has the power to judge clothing?

  • Luv 2 Troll U Sandy, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 9:43 p.m.

    Skinny jeans are so ugly! I think BYU was right in enforcing this and banning them, now attractive/normal jeans will spike marriage rates again.

    I hope all BYU's enforce this as dress code, I don't care for them and many of my friends don't either.

  • mtgrantlass Camden Wyoming, DE
    Dec. 8, 2011 8:34 p.m.

    "Inbreeding can best be avoided by getting a degree from each school! LOL! :-)"
    - cute.

    "No, she was dressed in a manner that even her bishop didn't feel was necessary to comment on"
    - the idea probably occurred to him, he just didn't go with it.

    "Two groups who do not understand that people are sexual biological beings: economists and the administrators of BYU - Idaho."
    - which means that Marxists don't have to follow rules and how does that help anything or anyone?

  • mtgrantlass Camden Wyoming, DE
    Dec. 8, 2011 8:15 p.m.

    "Honor code or not - skinny jeans really don't look very good. I'll be glad when fashion moves onto other styles."
    Yeah, like mini-skirts (again) - ha!

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Dec. 8, 2011 8:14 p.m.

    I have known too many people wanting to attend this college, but couldn't get in because of the numbers. If someone has a problem with the dress code, just don't go and let someone else come. Why go somewhere and be unhappy? Doesn't make sense. Take your shorts, flip-flops, and tight clothing somewhere else where it's appreciated.

  • Arm of Orion Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 7:50 p.m.

    Oh dear so many people have missed the mark. The issue is not with BYU-I as an institution just that a single foolish person made an arbitrary and capricious snap judgement on someone wearing skinny jeans. There is no problem with the University in and of itself on this issue.

    However other people BYU-I can be fairly restrictive and that could be a large large large issue! Am I saying allow raucous parties? No what I am saying is let's look at the honor code and see what is best that allows for maximum freedom while supporting the church standards. We cannot become a stratified people!

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Dec. 8, 2011 7:15 p.m.


    I have three kids who graduated from BYU-I, as well as I did (Ricks College). It was a fantastic experience. The honer code was never a problem, and I'd rather have a school a little overboard than not. If it bothers you, don't send them.

    Maybe your kids will be better off at ASU or AU.

  • CougarWannaBe MESA, AZ
    Dec. 8, 2011 6:21 p.m.

    Oh BYU-I. My wife and I have spent the better part of our parenting lives telling our kids about the unique "Spirit of Ricks" and the wonderful opportunities that they can have. For the last 18 months we've prayed, discussed, and counciled our oldest that as she prepares to graduate that making the decision to attend the "North Campus" was the right choice. Unfortunately, I think with this type of silliness, you've lost a bright, talented, outgoing, beautiful, skinny jean wearing kind of girl to a state school, where now, my wife and I will be praying just as hard, or harder, that our daughter will avoid the strong influence that come with co-ed freshman dorms, parties of the lowest caliber, and a whole different kind of fun.

    Just makes me angry that with the direction that BYU-I has been going in over the last few years would/could/is lost because of this silliness. The best and brightest are smarter that this, and will choose to go elsewhere if this is the "best" that the "best" can give. Skinny jeans. Silly.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Dec. 8, 2011 6:02 p.m.

    Yes! A silly rule. Males don't notice or think anything of girls with tight blue jeans. After all, tight clothing is so comfortable. Those old people don't understand. Crazy! Let's boycott BYU-I and go somewhere else where common sense is abundant. Since God loves us, he'll be happy and except everything we do.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 5:52 p.m.

    Free-Agency, and how to enforce it!

    Is walking on the grass forbidden there, too?

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 8, 2011 5:41 p.m.

    Based on personal experiences I have had with brethren in the LDS building department I have asked myself, and one of them, how they are able to maintain a temple recommend. I don't judge the LDS Church but rather specific individuals for less than honest dealings with their fellow men.

    I view this questionable dress code issue similarly. Individuals that go overboard in law enforcement of the dress code don't represent the leadership of either the school or the LDS Church.

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    Dec. 8, 2011 5:31 p.m.

    The greater the power, the more likely it is that the powerless will be reminded of the fact. In today's society, there aren't too many things more powerful than the ability to grant, or WITHHOLD, a college degree. If post-teenagers are functioning (literally) as gatekeepers, and can disrupt this whole process, that's pretty scary. Let's hope they're having a good day.

  • Independent Mike Flower Mound, TX
    Dec. 8, 2011 4:53 p.m.

    Nothing screams of self-righteousness more than the vigilante actions of this renegade testing center employee. And, the sign that was put up after the incident was way over the top. These are the type of words and actions that make people want to turn away from the LDS Church. And over what?.... Was this young lady committing serious sin? Was she committing a crime? Was she even failing to live up to the honor code? No, she was dressed in a manner that even her bishop didn't feel was necessary to comment on and then confronted by a BYU-I employee who feels the need to show college kids that he is more powerful and more righteous than they are.

    This is truly an embarrassment to BYU-I, the LDS Church, and Mormons everywhere. I am not looking forward to explaining this to my non-Mormon friends in Texas if any of them get wind of this story.

    That young lady needs an apology and that testing center employee needs to be formally and publicly reprimanded.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 4:53 p.m.

    'What I said is that the Savior is asking students to dress modestly. Also, as I said in a previous post I am not judging anyone. I simply think people need to respect BYU's right to enforce their own rules which their students have agreed to.' - My Humble Opinion | 3:45 p.m. Dec. 8, 2011


    When did the Savior say this?

    I thought it was the administration.

    Also, criticism is not a sign of disrespect.

    It is the evidence OF respect.

    Because the code, that changes depending on who you talk too, is still being allowed.

    It has not, factually been DENIED.

    Just criticized.

  • SSBball MiddleofNowhere, Utah
    Dec. 8, 2011 4:44 p.m.

    Some interesting thoughts here. The Temples are privately owned by the church. I have to be interviewed by my Bishop and Stake President and then sign an "honor" code in the form of a temple recommend to enter the temple. I even make the most important covenants and do the most sacred and important work I can do on earth in these temples. And through all of this I can have long hair and facial hair, but show up to a BYU-I testing center with a five o'clock shadow and you are turned down? Hmmm, interesting how a college campus is perceied to be so important and how judgemental and self righteous people are.

  • cabrams Rexburg, ID
    Dec. 8, 2011 4:00 p.m.

    (eye roll)...As a student at BYU-I, I abide by the honor code because it's what I agreed to. I wish I could wear flip-flops in the summer, but I don't make a fuss out of it because I agreed to follow it. I think BYU-I is a wonderful institution. However, there are definitely some over-zealous, self-righteous (mostly student) employees at the Testing Center. I've seen young men with a 5:00 shadow at 5:00 pm be sent home to shave while young women in the next row have their cleavage hanging out. Definitely a double standard on the part of the employees. My only thing to say about the skinny jean debacle is--(snort) it doesn't surprise me a bit. I hope BYU-I uses this situation as an excuse to give the Testing Center employees a good talking to about letter of the law, spirit of the law, and double standards.

  • My Humble Opinion Sandy, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 3:45 p.m.

    @ DeltaFoxtrot: I'm not sure why you are directing that message to me. I never said a "loving" father would not accept you. What I said is that the Savior is asking students to dress modestly. Also, as I said in a previous post I am not judging anyone. I simply think people need to respect BYU's right to enforce their own rules which their students have agreed to. I don't know how you can argue against that. I don't like some of the rules at BYU either. I went to the University of Utah because that suited me better. Had I gone to BYU I would have conformed to their rules.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 3:45 p.m.

    Two groups who do not understand that people are sexual biological beings: economists and the administrators of BYU - Idaho.

  • jimmyjones Provo, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 3:32 p.m.

    Each BYU school is different. They have their own versions of the honor code and what is acceptable. Having attended both BYU-I and BYU-Provo I can tell you that what is acceptable in Provo would never fly in Idaho. I always tried to avoid the testing center. The one in Provo isn't nearly as strict. This whole situation is just ridiculous. I have never been turned away when I show up to take a test. But if they ever do I will go nuclear on that poor student. I'm already stressed as it is about the testing environment and many times I plan my whole day around that test and many times that is the last possible time I can take that particular exam. To send someone home at closing is simply not fair.

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    Dec. 8, 2011 3:25 p.m.

    I think I'll be in deep doo-doo if I get to the Pearly Gates and see a BYU standards enforcer with his arms folded, looking me up and down. Yikes!

  • DeltaFoxtrot West Valley, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 3:17 p.m.

    @My Humble Opinion: I have a problem with the idea of a "loving" father figure deity that would not accept me because of the clothes I am wearing.

    When I read scripture I see things about treating others with kindness, love and respect. I see things about helping the less fortunate. How to be a generally good person.

    Yet when I look at religious people I see hate, judgment and condemnation.

    I think the overall message is being lost somewhere between what is written in that book and what is done in our daily lives.

    It's a glaring problem that religious institutions all over should probably be a little more concerned with addressing... and you wonder why millenials are abandoning religion in record numbers.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Dec. 8, 2011 3:08 p.m.

    If you don't agree with the rules,---go somewhere else! If you agree, --stay! What's so hard about that? The school board of trustees is the First Presidency of the Church, therefore I take the rules as inspired. Others may not take it that way and that's fine. There's no mandate for your attendance. Many other colleges to choose from. It's just that simple.

  • Robert Rexburg, ID
    Dec. 8, 2011 3:06 p.m.

    Actually the issue here was tight, form-fitting jeans, not the "skinny" jeans that are popular. Form-fitting clothes have been on all church school honor codes since invented.

    The church schools have very slight differences in honor codes because the Board of Trustees approved them that way. BYU-Hawaii of necessity accommodates climate and culture.

  • radically_independent Orem, Utah
    Dec. 8, 2011 3:05 p.m.

    BYU silliness still lives on. I got kicked out of BYU Provo's testing center because I was wearing my Speary Top-Siders with no socks. Evidently my ankles were pretty provocative. I loved my time at BYU, learned lots, made life long friends, but some of the stuff they got all wound up about just cracked me up.

  • My Humble Opinion Sandy, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 2:02 p.m.

    @ Pagan: You're comparing apples and oranges. The Savior is asking BYU students to dress modestly by today's standards, not the standards of His time.

  • Zoniezoobie Mesa, AZ
    Dec. 8, 2011 1:56 p.m.

    I agree with GoUtes: No one is being forced to be good. You are able to quickly discern who really wants to live the church standards. Church schools do not have a monopoly on good people or good educations.

    I went to both Ricks and BYU-Provo, and although both share a similar Honor Code, the experience on both campuses was different, maybe due to the size and number of students attending.

    I feel that the BYU students should be given the respect and agency to interpret for themselves how they will display their honor. Unfortunately, everyone desires attention and usually this is shown through dress and appearance spurred by media and current trends, as students seek to show their own identity. Afterall, finding an eternal companion is a huge subliminal motive in BYU campus life.

    However, everyone has to do their part in assimilating into the honor code environment, otherwise individuality is too disruptive to others. The problem is, how to rein in those who are over the line? There has to be a more discreet way to counsel with love and concern.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    Dec. 8, 2011 1:34 p.m.


    "When you sign up for BYU, you know what you're picking up."

    The problem in this case is that nobody knew they were picking up this. When those students signed the honor code, it contained certain things...then one day they show up at the testing center and the rules have changed. Sure, rules change all the time, but where was their chance to recommit?

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 1:33 p.m.

    'Yes, Jesus would be upset with someone for not honoring rules they have agreed to obey.' - Robert | 11:46 a.m. Dec. 8, 2011

    The rules that Jesus himself...

    did not adhere too.

    *'Modeling as Savior helps man find his faith' - By Trent Toone, Deseret News - 12/07/11

    'For the past few days Miner, with trimmed beard and chocolate-brown, shoulder-length hair, had dressed as Jesus and interacted with African orphans as part of a photo and video shoot.'

    Love this man's work. He, and the person he represents are trying to help those in need.

    But it DOES point out, the 'chocolate-brown, shoulder-length hair...'

  • byufootballrocks Herndon, VA
    Dec. 8, 2011 1:23 p.m.

    I am disappointed that the Deseret News, which is owned by the Church, would pick up on this silly story from the BYU-Idaho campus newspaper, and thereby fuel the flames of a ridiculous controversy.

    If BYU-Idaho has a rule about no tight or overly form-fitting pants, that's their business.

    If your current objective in life is to rebel against things and persecute others who believe in the honor code and try to practice it, then I'm sure you'll be offended by whatever you choose. And there are those who are looking for any chance they can get to take a shot at BYU and the Church.

    If you don't like the program, don't attend school there.

    But don't come into the school, accept it's opportunities, sign the honor code, and then start fighting the rules. That puts a dent in one's character.

    We just visitied BYU-Idaho and it is a place with great people and a wonderful spirit. Go tour the campus and you'll find our for yourself. They are really building something special. One beautiful campus.

  • JRJ Pocatello, ID
    Dec. 8, 2011 1:23 p.m.

    Skinny jeans may not be immoral, but they are ugly.

  • Ahge DENVER, CO
    Dec. 8, 2011 12:54 p.m.

    What's amazing to me is that John Dexter was allowed by the administration to keep the sign up for 3 days.

  • jazzfan86 American Fork, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 12:51 p.m.

    If students pants fit good when they start the semester and the freshman 15 come along and then bam! you aren't allowed to take tests because you gained too much weight that semester then they should pray to the Lord to know if those form fitting pants are appropriate.
    Warning to all freshman!!! buy your pants 2-3 sizes too big in case they become form fitting by the end of the semester. They want pants so loose they barely stay on but tight enough that you don't sag.
    Option 2: obviously you aren't keeping the word of wisdom since you aren't eating in moderation and so that combined with your snug pants will disqualify you from worthily entering the hollowed grounds of the testing center. The testing center manager owns the weight loss center down the street and will recommend you use their facilities

  • A1994 Centerville, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 12:45 p.m.

    "...by BYU-Idaho testing center employees who stretched their interpretation of the university's dress and grooming standards too far."

    "We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose..."

    However, this comes with the territory. When you sign up for BYU, you know what you're picking up. Not MY idea of a good college experience. I went to USU and loved every minute of it. But to each his own. If you choose to go to BYU, you get everything that comes with it, the good and the absolutely, unbelievably absurd.

  • Go Utes Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 12:40 p.m.

    @ SLC BYU Fan 12:09 p.m.

    I am misinformed? Please point to a single incorrect statement that I made in my post. I said nothing about the number of eventual PhD students and nothing about rankings, etc. My post was solely addressing the issues raised by an earlier poster who wanted a good LDS experience for her student children and blindly dismissed the U as a non-viable option. They therefore ended up at BYU-I enduring, not enjoying, their education. What I was saying is that the U provides all of the benefits any LDS student could want. Any student at the U can go on to do graduate work (as I chose to) if they choose. Your statistics have nothing to do with the point of my post. If someone's highest goal is to graduate from a school that turns out more kids to go on to earn a PhD or from a program that is ranked nominally higher (example, the law schools' different rankings are virtually the same), then the Y it is. All I am saying is that the U provides a great LDS experience without a lot of the baggage that the article addresses.

  • Vanka Provo, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 12:40 p.m.

    It is presumptuous, at best, to think you have the right to judge another person's "worthiness". But it is downright damaging and unethical to use the logic "Brother" Dexter used:

    "If a student prays and they think that the tight, 'form-fitting' clothing is accepted by the Lord, they have not asked, or have not asked the right question, or they have chosen an answer for their own gratification," testing center manager John Dexter said."

    Many of you LDS recognize the blatant fallacy of such an argument.

    But do you recognize that this is the exact same form (and fallacy) of Moroni's Promise?

    You tell me to "ask God, the eternal Father, if the Book of Mormon/LDS Church is [not] true... ask with real intent, with faith in Christ, etc.

    But I have done so for over 20 years and have not gotten "the right" answer. And for this, I have been castigated, judged, and condemned as insincere, too proud, too intellectual, not intellectual enough, unworthy, selfish, and on and on, just as this testing center manager has done to students at BYU-I.

    Don't you see you are all kith and kin with your Brother Dexter?

  • DeltaFoxtrot West Valley, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 12:35 p.m.

    Next thing you know they'll want all the women in Burqas... is this America or Iran?

  • Arizona Reader Gilbert, AZ
    Dec. 8, 2011 12:30 p.m.

    People can make fun of BYU-Idaho all they want, but I went there and absolutely loved the experience. I appreciated Brother Myasaki clarifying the issue and the testing center is most likely a bit out of line on this one and probably ought to apologize. There are some students that might take the rules a little too far and miss the point of the honor code, that happens with all organizations that have rules. All I know is that when you keep the rules, there is a feeling on that campus that is on no other campus. I grew up in Orem and I feel there is even a distinct different between BYU and BYU-Idaho in the way they feel. I love both schools, but I am glad that I went to Rexburg.

    Most students who attend BYU-Idaho enjoy the environment there. The students who don't follow the honor code struggle because they find themselves always fighting against it. They ought to simply go somewhere else. No one is forcing them to attend the university. If they don't like it, then get a great education at another school, there is nothing wrong with that. However, there is something wrong with choosing to go there and then complaining about the rules you agreed to follow.

  • The Atheist Provo, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 12:27 p.m.

    I hope they had John Dexter do an "I'm a Mormon" video for YouTube!

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 12:20 p.m.


    Jesus would be more upset at those who "which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel." (Matt 23:24) and then forget the lessons and importance of Charity in Moroni 7. Too many in the Church "love" to enforce the letter of the law for pride's sake. I think the Lord isn't much interested in the outer appearance - it's the inside that matters. Of course modesty is important but extreme religion is also dangerous (Elder Bruce R McConkie).

  • IDC Boise, ID
    Dec. 8, 2011 12:20 p.m.

    Lots of people getting offended. I went to BYU for 41/2 years and never had a single issue with the testing center or with feeling "judged" for anything. I received a great education that has served me well. I loved the people I met there and the campus is beautiful. The worst part was all of those other smart people who made getting good grades so much harder.

  • Johnson72 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 12:19 p.m.

    What's next... skinny shirts, skinny socks, skinny hats?

  • Arizona Coug Queen Creek, Arizona
    Dec. 8, 2011 12:17 p.m.

    I went to Ricks and unfortunately this is not a unique situation. The school needs to get this under control. I don't see any reason why BYU and BYU-Idaho's standards should be different. The manager of the testing center, Dexter, needs to be replaced. He has shown zero discretion here. Those signs are truly outrageous. The media attention this is driving is bad for the church. It paints the church as a bunch of wierdos and cemements the "cult" idea in many minds. This is not about standing up for standards, this is just plain weird.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 12:09 p.m.

    The Savior was concerned when others elevated rules over doctrine. In Matthew 23:23 [Matt. 23:23] we read, Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

    (By Elder Quentin L. Cook)

    "Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel" [Matt. 23:24]

    I think there is great danger when people of all Christian faiths (including LDS) become too caught up in the letter of the law and then tend to forget the most important attribute of all - CHARITY! (Moroni 7).

    I remember a bishop who decided to embarrass some young ladies in Sac Mt. because their dresses were too short. The girls didn't return. There is the right way and the WRONG way to influence good behavior and I think all the above Scriptures from the Savior point that out.

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 12:09 p.m.

    @Go Utes: You're also somewhat misinformed since BYU produces many more undergraduates that go on to earn a PhD and continues to supply the graduate and medical schools at the University of Utah with an endless supply of highly qualified undergraduates. The undergraduate studentbody at BYU is the envy of the majority of most AAU affiliated universities (AAU...an organization the University of Utah highly aspires to be a part of). I also might add BYU has more highly ranked Law, Business and Accounting graduate level programs, BUT I'll admit Utah has the better hard science and art research graduate degrees (including over 70 doctoral level programs of which BYU has only 25). However this is no reason for Utah undergraduates to look down their noses at BYU undergraduates academcially speaking or vice-versa. Inbreeding can best be avoided by getting a degree from each school! LOL! :-)

    @Patriot: You hit the nail right on the head! I'm sick and tired of such radical "ultra-traditionalist" interpretations!

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 11:50 a.m.

    "The fact is the school is privately owned and operated by the church."

    Doesn't mean it can't be criticized.

    "I'm not perfect but, I learned that the Lords servants can see and understand a lot farther down the road then any of us PERIOD"

    Period? So you're sure about that. Well, I'm going to go ahead and ask for the evidence to back up your claim.

    "If you don't like it go to berkely were you pretty much wear whatever or you don't have to wear any clothes either most don't!"

    Now that isn't self-righteous at all...

    "I can't believe you can call yourselves disciples of Christ! You are the product of faithful pioneers who suffered a lot more then you did and all you can do is complain because you have never had to sacrifice for your testimony and now you do and guess what it doesn't look like your passing!"

    I'm starting to think you use "I'm not perfect" as an excuse to justify continuing with holier-than-thou ranting.

  • Robert Rexburg, ID
    Dec. 8, 2011 11:46 a.m.

    The point isn't what the honor code says, it's whether individuals will honor the rules they've signed on to.

    Dress and grooming standards exist in most businesses, each branch of the military, police and fire departments, and many universities. BYU-Idaho's honor code is preparation for careers after graduation. Recruiters love it.

    Yes, Jesus would be upset with someone for not honoring rules they have agreed to obey.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 11:41 a.m.

    "If your pants are tight enough to see the shape of your leg, your pants are too tight."

    This could also happen after finishing that second piece of pumpkin pie after Thanksgiving dinner!!

    I can see it now - BYU security on their little scooters chasing after those radical jean-wearing students!!

    Is it any wonder why many in the world mistake Mormons for Amish!! Geez, this is ridiculous. I remember playing baseball at UVU and playing at Arizona State. You want to see an eye opener as to what 99% of college kids wear - holy cow!! I thought I was at Lagoona Beach instead of a college campus. It's fine and good to have reasonable dress standards until things are taken to the extreme for the sole purpose of enforcing the letter of the law.

  • Go Utes Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 11:39 a.m.

    @ RoxyLynne 10:48 a.m.

    It is too bad you are letting some misinformed prejudice get in the way of having your children attend the Universit of Utah. The U provdes a great education in a laid back environment with tons of LDS kids and at a great price. You would achieve 4 for 4 on your list. As I noted in my earlier post, in my opinion, the U offers one of the best experiences for LDS kids in the country. At the same time, you don't have arrogant, pharisaic fellow students and administrators ever judging each other, etc. Everyone who lives church standards does so by their own conviction, not some artificial standard that forces it on you. There are religion classes, firesides, etc. You are really missing out on a gem of an institution, and all due to misguided, arrogant bias. Now you know the great secret: the U is an LDS student Mecca and produces some wonderful fathers and mothers, church leaders, employers and employees, etc. Church schools do not have a monopoly on good people or good educations.

    Dec. 8, 2011 11:17 a.m.

    John Dexter is a perfect example of why so many people dislike Mormons. I'm still trying to decide what my new nickname will be for BYU-Idaho: it's a toss-up between "Hildale High School" or "Colorado City College."

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 11:13 a.m.

    Don't you all know the Devil wears Wranglers?? This is pretty funny stuff. Maybe they should just change to have the girls wear long dresses with bonnets and the boys white shirts and ties. By the way, how do those BYU cheerleadrs get away with wearing those short skirts?? Last BYU football game I had to cover my kids eyes from seeing those bare legs. My goodness what is the world coming to?? What's next for boys.. side burns??

  • BobP Port Alice, B.C.
    Dec. 8, 2011 11:09 a.m.

    I went to BYU after 5 years in the Military. I was in a 300 level Religion class and the girl sitting next to me was knockout lovely and wearing a skirt that almost met BYU standard. The professor made a really snarky comment to her. She turned beet red and got up to leave.

    I stood up beside her and called him on it in in very harsh terms front of the class. I had to find another professor who would accept me in the class.

    [Got a few dates out of it but she married a football player.]

  • 3141 Columbus, Ohio
    Dec. 8, 2011 10:58 a.m.

    Honor code or not - skinny jeans really don't look very good. I'll be glad when fashion moves onto other styles.

  • Julesb LAYTON, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 10:57 a.m.

    fastgunrascon, c'mon. So, I am not a diciple of Christ if I wear perfectly modest shorts or capris in the summer? By the way, the apostles are men, too. They aren't perfect. They, too, have a human understaning, just like the rest of us.

  • RoxyLynne Madison, IN
    Dec. 8, 2011 10:48 a.m.

    I'm not happy about sending my kids to BYU-I, but it's a financial consideration. If we could have recieved in-state tuition at any other school in Utah (except University of Utah, blech), some of our kids would have loved to have attended. We were looking for a good education in a laid back setting with lots of LDS kids at a decent price. I guess 3 out of 4 is ok. We keep reminding our 2 BYU-I students that it's all about getting a good education. It's not forever. Stick it out and get a degree and you can go anywhere you want.

  • PA Rock Man Allentown, PA
    Dec. 8, 2011 10:40 a.m.

    Hugh Nibley recognized the underlying root of the problem at the BYUs in his talk "Zeal Without Knowledge." I recommend reading it. He said "that is pure zeal that tends to breed a race of insufferable, self-righteous prigs, and barren minds."

    I attended BYU and had an overall good experience, but I agree with many here who are concerned that the universities are beginning to produce a group of self righteous pharisees. I would love to see an administrator and church authority finally address this topic.

  • USAlover Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 10:39 a.m.

    For every mile of PR that "I'm a Mormon" has accomplished, incidences like this set us back two.

    Half the people I see in "I'm a Mormon" ads couldn't get into that Biblical Testing Center in Idaho.

  • Big R La Palma, CA
    Dec. 8, 2011 10:37 a.m.

    It is hard enough to convince kids to go to outer siberia to attend college. I love the school and what it teaches its students, but this is just ridiculous. It is thinking like this from "holier than thou" members that deprive kids who are struggling to find their own spiritual legs. So many parents know that if they can just get their kids to BYU or BYU-I they will grow spiritually, but they are being rebuffed in those efforts by judgmental members who forget the attitude the Savior had towards all men.

  • San Diego Chargers Fan San Diego, CA
    Dec. 8, 2011 10:34 a.m.

    I am totally in favor of the ban. Skinny jeans are just plain ugly, a fad, and will be out-of-style by next year.

    A few other ugly trends that should be banned on campus (or at least shunned):

    1) eyelash extensions
    2) Mitt Romney's hair
    3) acid wash jeans
    4) crocs
    5) shape-up shoes
    6) plaid shorts
    7) UGG boots
    8) track suits
    9) yoga pants at the grocery store
    10) comb-over hairstyles worn by overbearing testing center managers

  • Clarissa Layton, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 10:23 a.m.

    Glad to hear it. Those jeans look so awful and most people do not have the body type to even wear them. I think that wherever they sell such jeans should have a sign that says 'Skinny jeans do not make you look skinny.' Why anyone would want to stuff their bodies into such tight jeans so they can show off their bodies is beyond me. I agree that they are breaking the dress code. Good for BYU-Idaho, although I do think more notice should have been given. I hope BYU adopts this code soon.

  • Uncle Rico Sandy, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 10:22 a.m.

    So this guy that works at the testing center put up that sign? Please tell me he is not a product of a church who teaches love, compassion and tolerance. Individuals like him have zero right to go beyond the mark. His position of "Authority" me thinks went right to his head.

  • DeltaFoxtrot West Valley, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 10:18 a.m.

    Any extreme interpretation of religion is bad... doesn't matter what religion it is.

  • Provo4Life PROVO, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 10:12 a.m.

    The biggest problem I see is that they have a bunch of students enforcing the honor code. It's the same things here in Provo. You give someone a little power and watch out, they are gonna use it. Testing Center, Intramural referees, the gym or library. These students think they are doing some great service by ratting these people out, but truly are manifesting unrighteous dominion. Just listen to the "testing center manager" John Dexter, "If a student prays and they think that the tight, 'form-fitting' clothing is accepted by the Lord, they have not asked, or have not asked the right question, or they have chosen an answer for their own gratification." This is where it goes wrong. This kid already knows the answers the Lord gives to everyone when they pray and accusses them or praying incorrectly. Now when I need an answer to a prayer I know to go to John Dexter for the answer.

  • Millsap fan Taylorsville, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 10:09 a.m.

    Definitely ridiculous and when I hear these stories, I think how would any of the apostles or prophet respond? None of them would be as insensitive or self righteous. If they had to tell someone to go change or anything they would do so in a Christlike way.

    On my mission I was chastised all the time by self righteous missionaries telling me to shave, when I'd shaved that morning because I have a very thick beard. I hated it!

  • Truth Doctor Atlanta, GA
    Dec. 8, 2011 10:07 a.m.

    This is ridiculous. The occupants of the great and spacious building have always laughed at the LDS, but this gives them reason to. The value of my kid's BYU-I education will go down because of stuff like this.
    I am troubled that my own BYU-I attending daughter is being subjected to smug self-righteous pharisees. I am offended by the testing center director's attitude of, "Pray about it and, if you don't receive an answer that confirms my narrow policy interpretation, then you are unrighteous."!

  • Go Utes Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 9:56 a.m.

    Solution: Go to the U of U! There are thousands of great LDS people who dress modestly and are great people. I found my wife there, married in the temple, and am loving life as a Ute! I never wore a beard, although it is nice to know I would not have been kicked out of my test had I skipped shaving one morning. I took wonderful religion classes during my entire time on campus. You don't need the Honor Code to keep your testimony! All of the devotionals, etc., are available for anyone to see/read, not just those on church campuses. The U degree is no different. I work along side other U grads, Y grads, Ivy League grads, etc. and we all get paid the same. There are no self-righteous people administering tests. No one is being forced to be good. You are able to quickly discern who really want to live the church standards. The U has dances, firesides, and all of the LDS stuff you could want! No one forces you to drink or smoke or be immodest etc. My faith, family, and education all flourished there.

    In short, become a Ute!

  • Ms Molli Bountiful, Utah
    Dec. 8, 2011 9:53 a.m.

    "If a student prays and they think that the tight, 'form-fitting' clothing is accepted by the Lord, they have not asked, or have not asked the right question, or they have chosen an answer for their own gratification," testing center manager John Dexter said. "I don't believe the Lord would give approval to anyone to be disobedient to the CES Dress and Grooming Standards."

    This says it all. A religion that teaches everyone to use their agency, to pray and receive confirmation by the Lord in making important decisions. Yet the unrighteous judgment by other members in claiming that you weren't asking the right question or chosing the answer you wanted to hear. UNBELIEVABLE!

  • fastgunrascon RIGBY, ID
    Dec. 8, 2011 9:41 a.m.

    I'm sadden by all these comments I'm a student at Brigham Young University Idaho and it makes me sick how bad some of you want to justify your feelings. The fact is the school is privately owned and operated by the church. Your education is subsidized by the church you ARE GETTING A DEAL!!! Please take your bad attitudes back to where ever you came from! I'm not perfect but, I learned that the Lords servants can see and understand a lot farther down the road then any of us PERIOD If you don't like it go to berkely were you pretty much wear whatever or you don't have to wear any clothes either most don't! There are many quiet faithful who can't attend because you are taking up their place I can't believe you can call yourselves disciples of Christ! You are the product of faithful pioneers who suffered a lot more then you did and all you can do is complain because you have never had to sacrifice for your testimony and now you do and guess what it doesn't look like your passing! 2Nephi 1:13-20

  • eagle651 Chino Valley, AZ
    Dec. 8, 2011 9:39 a.m.

    I thought the General Authorities was in charge of all the Church Universities.
    A standardized Honor Code was developed by students and faculty years ago as a guide for all.

    It sounds like sub-management at the various schools are manipulating the Honor Code to use as a "Judge" for their own standards.

    For students who are trying to honor the Code only to realize that it still isn't good enough, you might consider looking for another school with less control.
    There are plenty of secular Universities out there where you can get a fine education.

    Also, there are many Christian schools that would love to accept discouraged Mormon students.

    Now that this University "code control" issue is world wide news again, it won't be long before we will see it on the Nightly News

    More damage control needed.

  • Kami Bountiful, Utah
    Dec. 8, 2011 9:38 a.m.

    Do they also turn females away when their shirts are tight -- asking because I see a lot of that in church by both the young women and some of the young mothers.

  • majmajor Layton, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 9:36 a.m.

    This is just the old manager of the Testing Center saying, "If your standards are not my standards, you don't follow the Lord." The fact is that the manager was over reaching and the one that wasn't in compliance with the standards. Maybe he (or she) needs to go home and "pray about it."

    This is funny. The old generation is always trying to keep the young from "pushing the standards." I do the same with my daughters, but the manager has less standing to make these decisions.

  • sally Kearns, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 9:33 a.m.

    Reading these comments is like my experience at BYU in the late 1960's. It was mini skirts back then. Girls were required to wear dresses, no pants. When one chooses to attend a particular school, then one should also accept the rules. Go somewhere else if you don't like it.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 9:29 a.m.

    I don't have a problem with the honor code or enforcing it. I'm just not sure how they can have a student judge another student. Since byu schools have the same code, but, vary in what is allowed. The same goes with student interpretations. The "police" student might be more or less strict than the student putting on clothes. The question is, how do you stay consistant on the judging part? A girl might wear jeans that she doesn't feel are form fitting, but, because she is in better shape than the girl at the desk; then she is judged more harshly since the boys seem to pursue her more.

    I'm just saying there doesn't seem to be a good way to judge items that come close to the line. Obviously if the girl walks in with a sports bra and running shorts, she will be turned away. If she comes in wearing a shirt that the girl at the desk feels is too tight for her own taste even though it adheres to the rules. That's another thing.

  • Julesb LAYTON, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 9:25 a.m.

    I am an active LDS church member, but I am disgusted with some of the self-righteous members. I am sorry, but dress standards do change with time. Women were required to wear dresses, but now pants are perfectly acceptable. Facial hair used to be perfectly fine. I could never go to BYU because of the strict, non-doctrine based rules. Being "clean cut" or wearing modest shorts doesn't automatically make you a better person or in better standing with the church. Premoting this ridiculous notion just confuses people. (This man has to be a good person because he doesn't have a beard and is clean cut. I can trust him!)

  • BigRich Orem, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 9:24 a.m.

    The fact is, employees of the testing center should not be making, or put in the position to have to make, decisions regarding a student's keeping the dress portion of the honor code. Employees should be administering tests and no more. Only university and church officials should be reviewing cases where there are violations. The "honor" code not only implies integrity, but also implies that students be allowed to be "on their honor," in determining how they will maintain the standards. In maintaining all these standards, we must also "honor" free agency.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    Dec. 8, 2011 9:10 a.m.

    All this "Honor Code" nonsense makes me laugh, whether it's skinny jeans, bare midriffs, beards, long hair, or whatever.

    Those of us who aren't affiliated with the BYU system have an honor code as well: It's called the scriptures and the words of the living prophets. Isn't that enough of an honor code?

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 9:02 a.m.

    I think this is about as hillarious as it can get, but more seriously what happens when radical "ultra-traditionalist Mullah's" decide to start interpreting the BYU Honor Code as to their own set of rules being guided by the "strictness of the law as opposed to the "spirit of the law." BYU-Idaho testing center manager John Dexter obviously needs a formal reprimend for going beyond the mark on this one. BYU-Idaho president Kim Clark should call him into his office and deliver it himself. President Clark like his counterpart in Provo Cecil Samuelson have the charge to encourage adhearence to the dress and grooming aspect of the Honor Code. Samuelson gave a great talk on the matter shortly after assuming office nearly 8 years ago.

    This reminds me in a more cynical way of an instance at BYU (Provo) 30 years ago where a female student removed her jeans and took a test wearing a long overcoat. That was the hillarious memory for me! You don't get ahead in the church or in life by trying to be hideously strict in such interpretations!

  • GoGetter Sandy, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 8:59 a.m.

    I can't believe this, I'm so glad I'm a Ute!!

  • DeltaFoxtrot West Valley, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 8:57 a.m.

    I understand the outrage, but BYU is a private university. If you don't want to abide by whatever code they have, don't go there... it really is that simple.

  • SpanishImmersed Mesa, AZ
    Dec. 8, 2011 8:56 a.m.

    There has to be a better way to 'enforce' the honor code. I once worked for an airline where employees and their families were allowed to fly standby for free and the airline established a dress code for such travelers. The policy turned our gate agents into what was known as the 'gestapo' of fashion police.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 8:49 a.m.

    'Several students recently were turned away for wearing the form-fitting jeans by BYU-Idaho testing center employees who stretched their interpretation of the university's dress and grooming standards too far.' - Article


    And, it appears, many of the posters on this story.

    First, let me clarify, it is NOT my place to tell BYU-Idaho what to do. I do not claim to be part of that faith, or demographic.

    That said, in my personal opinion, I think this is a waste of time. A futile excercise that only shows the things that make us different INSTEAD of focusing on what makes us alike.

    Instead of focusing on persons who wear little clothing, now the issue is how far away the clothing is from your skin?

    I've seen skinny jeans in the 70's and I see them today. You know what changed?


    We are all still here. Still trying to get by and we do NOT need this aggravation when factually COVERING all of our...parts.

    This is a waste of energy and resources to force people to adhere to rules that differ depending on who your talking too.

    And, everyone is free to do as they wish.

  • Civil Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 8:42 a.m.

    I was wondering how many "couldn't get in with my jeans so I took them off and just went in with my overcoat on" stories there would be.

    I always thought those were made up and apocryphal until my sister-in-law, a mission president's wife, told of doing so -- in the 60's. I think that approach has been taken by thousands of women over the years; almost as many women have done that as ridiculously immature people have upheld "their" version of the honor code at the Testing Center. Oops, let's just make that BYU, er, BYU-U, BYU-I, BYU-H.

  • My Humble Opinion Sandy, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 8:32 a.m.

    These types of rules are some of the reasons I would not go to byu. Many of the rules seem to go beyond the commandments the Lord has given us. Also, I subscribe to Joseph Smith's teaching of "Teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves". That said, some people do choose to go to byu knowing that they have a strict honor code. If you choose to go there, you choose to follow the rules, whether you agree with their interpretations or not. I know some people on here have given good arguments e.g. a pregnant woman not being able to afford maternity clothes. I certainly do not wish to judge anyone. My only thought on that is maybe that woman's ward could have helped her get some maternity clothes. The Book of Mormon teaches that the Lord will provide a way for us to obey.

  • Tokyo_Expat Tokyo, Japan
    Dec. 8, 2011 8:23 a.m.

    I loved my experience at BYU-Idaho, but am not surprised by this story unfortunately. I know too many people, myself included, who have had run-ins at the testing center there for exteremely trivial things. When I was there, the debate over capris pants was all the rage and they ended up being banned from campus too. Not sure if they're still banned or not.

    Needless to say, I agree that the church needs to standardize how the honor code and dress code are applied for all of the church-sponsored schools. It's embarrassing to see a story like this go viral and the self-righteous attidudes of a few make it seem like everyone at the university is the same way. The sign posted at the testing center and the manager's comments about praying over the matter (referring to those who wear skinny jeans) demonstrate this exact attitude unfortunately.

  • Mormonstudent Rexburg, ID
    Dec. 8, 2011 8:17 a.m.

    I attend BYU-Idaho. I just want repeat what this article already did: there is no ban on skinny jeans. There is only the ban on tight-fitting clothes which had already been in effect. Now, students here really need to strive to live the dress and grooming standards that they agreed to when they signed the honor code.

    That said, students working in the testing center have at times abused their authority... or rather, their perceived authority. Sorry, but the student working at the testing center is not a common judge in Israel.

    Still, students spend way too much time complaining. You are receiving a quality education for very little money. Is not wearing flip-flops really ruining your day?

  • runnerguy50 Virginia Beach, Va
    Dec. 8, 2011 8:15 a.m.

    BYU Idaho is laughable.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Dec. 8, 2011 8:14 a.m.

    It sound like somebody at the testing center was on a power trip. Too bad.

  • twelvestringsam Orem, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 8:13 a.m.

    Good for them. With almost no standards today, it is nice to see a University taking a stand on the critical nature of moral conduct.

  • SL Rexburg, ID
    Dec. 8, 2011 8:06 a.m.

    What happened to "I teach them correct principles and they govern themselves?-Joseph Smith." Why should there be ANY enforcement of the dress code? Why not just teach the standard and then the students choose? If a few grow beards and long hair, who cares? What is really at stake here? Sometimes small things really are just small things.

  • DEW Cougars Sandy, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 8:05 a.m.

    As former student at BYU never wear something that might offend testing center staffs but can get away from it at regular classes. Good grief, last year was about Brandon Davies and now BYU-I. Don't you love those outsiders medias! Lol!

  • washcomom Beaverton, OR
    Dec. 8, 2011 8:05 a.m.

    There's the letter of the law, and the spirit of the law. When people comply with the spirit of the law, the letter of the law will follow. Then there are those that are claiming to be the fashion police on campus. I'm sure there are worse fashion crimes than skinny jeans in the testing center.

    Look at it this way - there is no way of smuggling in notes to cheat with if they were wearing skinny jeans.

  • XelaDave Salem, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 8:05 a.m.

    So if the testing center already has the answer then why council someone to go and ask- oh right so they can get their own witness of something already decided- this is what we have come to- what a sad commentary- three days to remove the sign- some admin. was asleep I would say

  • Anita Sandy, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 8:04 a.m.

    My favorite BYU testing center story along these lines was my mom's roommate in the 1970s, back when women had to wear dresses--she showed up to take a test in pants and a long coat. The staff refused to let her in, so she went to a bathroom and removed the pants, and then she was allowed in to take the test in her coat alone. More modest, for sure.

  • a serious man Rexburg, ID
    Dec. 8, 2011 8:00 a.m.

    The Testing Center has caused more bad feelings and embarrassment over these issues than any entity on campus. I think the administration has liked it, in the past, that the Testing Center has done the "dirty work" of dress code enforcement, but now they are reaping the whirlwind of bad publicity. These silly issues do a lot of PR damage, for the school and the church. Testing Center management needs a good talking to, or perhaps a reassignment.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Dec. 8, 2011 7:55 a.m.

    Not surprised by this story.

    My son has extremely sensitive, fair skin and dark hair. He was turned away from the cafeteria on his first day of school as a freshman at BYU Provo being told he needed to go shave. He had shaved the evening before. Of course, he didn't have time to shave and eat so went without breakfast. Welcome to BYU!

    Having grown up in UT I chose not to attend BYU so as not to be subjected to the zealous "letter-of-the-law" people which seem to abound there.

  • Honor Code Denver, Colorado
    Dec. 8, 2011 7:53 a.m.

    If BYU is going to enforce their "Dress Code" and "Grooming Code" perhaps all LDS schools should adhere to the same rule?

    I get a chuckle when I see Riley Nelson (BYU's QB) with long hair and all the players that sport tattoo's these days. Just sayin!

  • Baron Scarpia Logan, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 6:58 a.m.


    Leviticus 19:27 clearly states that men should not cut their hair or trim their beards. I would have mentioned that at the Testing Center.

  • LookingatUtah Idaho Falls, ID
    Dec. 8, 2011 6:56 a.m.

    I operate a college testing center at a public school. I remember the day when I told a lady she would need to wait a few minutes to take her test until a computer opened up that would not place her in close proximity to another examinee. She had fragrance that was extremely strong and I felt that it could be a potential distraction to others nearby, especially if they had any level of allergies. She demanded to know who my supervisor was and that she had never had anybody tell her that she "smelled." I marched her right in to meet with him after I explained what had taken place. By the time she had filled his office with her aroma, a seat opened that I could place her at.

  • RBN Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 6:45 a.m.

    "We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion."

    Hopefully, the administration has had a chat with the testing center director.

  • Timp South Jordan, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 6:34 a.m.

    Wow. Just wow. Is BYU-I located in Colorado City?? Because that is definitely a form of religious fanaticism.

  • Aggielove Junction city, Oregon
    Dec. 8, 2011 6:25 a.m.

    Odd rule.
    But very ugly jeans also.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 6:13 a.m.

    There was a woman that was pregnant and didn't have much in maternity clothes. She went to the testing center with the one item of clothing that fit her. She was turned away, because she was told it didn't meet the standard. She is pregnant and uncomfortable already and couldn't afford to buy clothes. Seems ridiculous that some student at a desk has the ability to judge in the Saviors place, what is appropriate and what isn't.

    I wonder how anyone in a third world country could attend the school. Most people wear flip flops or go barefoot. Is God going to punish them for being poor? I doubt it.

  • TexasGirlAUte Draper, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 5:48 a.m.


    "Do you think the SAvior turns people away from the atonement because they have 5 o'clock shadows or wear tight fitting jeans. come on!"

    Amen Brother! I couldn't agree with you more.

  • bradleyc Layton, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 4:52 a.m.

    This is crazy! I love BYU and all that it stands for but come on people. Skinny Jeans. Really? What I want to know is did they elicit immoral thoughts for the person who was working at the testing center that day? IF they did then he/she had better watch his or her thoughts.

  • Chris from Rose Park PROVO, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 4:32 a.m.

    Does anybody know why the honor code at BYU-I and BYU-Provo are different? They are not vastly different but they are different and the enforcement, from this article, appears to be different. I don't think the testing center in Provo would be able to do this. The curfews are also different.

    Are the rules and their enforcement different because of different University Presidents? On a mission the rules and their interpretation are often left up to the mission presidents (i.e. what is Sacrament Meeting appropriate music. My two mission presidents allowed different music and had different ways of judging if it was appropriate)?

  • Johnny Moser Thayne, WY
    Dec. 8, 2011 1:52 a.m.

    I would, have, and do pay for my kids to attend all of the BYU affiliate locations. I have an EXTREMELY difficult time with the differences in the acceptable standards at these universities. What is OK at Provo is not OK in Rexburg and what is OK in Laie is absolutely not acceptable at Rexburg or Provo. The HONOR CODE and DRESS Code are based on the EXACT same documents. HOW can the acceptable standards for dress be so different? Is the shape of the legs in Provo any less shapely than they are in Rexburg? And in Laie there really isn't much doubt as to their shape as "long" shorts are acceptable. The Board of Directors should create a committee to standardize ALL LDS affiliated universities. Get control of these renegade employees. I HATED the Testing Center experience, I felt more violated there than anywhere on or off campus. Abolish the testing center. Let the folks that run it find someplace else to work; where they can force their version and meaning of the Honor Code and Dress Code onto the student body. I recommend either the snow removal teams or the swimsuit issue room.

  • MormonDem Provo, UT
    Dec. 8, 2011 1:12 a.m.

    You know, one talk from the conference center pulpit encouraging members of the Church to not be self-righteous and overzealous and Pharisaical would do more PR good than a million dollars worth of "I'm a Mormon" ads.

  • Jallgood SEATTLE, WA
    Dec. 8, 2011 12:20 a.m.

    I read about this on Gawker and was surprised at the number of people there who both understood the dress code and expressed surprise that the student would take exception to this enforcement. That said, now that I have read both the sign that was posted and read the testing center managers response, I am going to side on this "ban" being completly overboard and self righteous.

  • chubbuckidahocougfan Chubbuck, Idaho
    Dec. 7, 2011 11:28 p.m.

    This is just laughable. Part of the reason I chose to no longer attend BYU-I was this self-proclaimed self righteousness by the Testing Center at this university. The other main reason is because I wanted to be closer to home so I decided to attend Idaho State Univ. instead.

    There were two seperate incidents when I went into the testing center and got sent home. Both times were because I had a 5 o'clock shadow or so they said. I hadn't shaved in about 18 hours or so and I was refused the opportunity to take a test and had to return home. I don't hold any grudges and really could care less but sending people home for frivolous things and posting "stupid" signs in the testing center do more damage than any good it is supposed to do. Infact it's offensive to turn people away for having a 5 oclock shadow or wearing tight fitting jeans. Let them take the test and let the Savior judge. Do you think the SAvior turns people away from the atonement because they have 5 o'clock shadows or wear tight fitting jeans. come on!