Mr. Riley, hang onto this article, you will be able to recycle it for the next
few years...just the title needs to change.For instances: 2nd.
Pac-12 season was educational...again.or...3rd. Pac-12
season...lessons not learned.or...4th. Pac-12 season...Hello, is
there anyone up there on the Hill?or...5th. Pac-12 season...Oh,
Referring to Arizona (#81), Washington State (#92), Oregon State (#96) and
Colorado (#100) as the Big Boys is worrisome. Utah State (#74) is
ranked higher than any of them. As it turns out, the teams BYU played from the
WAC are ranked about the same as the bottom five teams Utah played from the
PAC12.Just think how the Utes would have done if they would have
played the Big Boys - Oregon and Stanford instead of Oregon State and Washington
State. I'm pretty sure U would have been 5 - 7, instead of 7 - 5.Oregon is a 30 point favorite over the Southern Division Champs - UCLA.
Oregon, Stanford and USC are the PAC3. Every other team was bottom of the PAC
this year. Utah has a lot to improve to compete with the top teams in the PAC.
But U were right there and able to compete with the 4 schools who fired their
coaches this year.
Utah has alot to improve...The Utes have been offensively atrocious,
ranking 99th in passing offense (171 YPG), 81st in rushing offense (137 YPG),
110th in total offense (308 YPG) and 78th in scoring offense (24.5 PPG)...yes
they have been educated this year.
Riley lesson #3 is false. You, and other pac12 apologists make this claim in an
attempt to try and perpetuate the myth that simply because a school is in the
pac12, or bcs, that they somehow have superior athletes and because of that any
of them can beat any of the others.The reason that is a false
assertion is because it is no different than any other conference. Do you want
proof? Ok I'll give it to you.Utah lost to every single mtn west
conference team since whittingham became coach including the crappy ones. Want
the list? Colorado St? 2005 L17-21Wyoming? 2006 L15-31New Mexico? 2005 L27-31 2006 L31-34UNLV? 2007 L 0-27SDSU? 2005
L28-19It doesn't seem to me that being in the pac12 is one bit
different for utah in that regard than being in the mtn west was. utah can, and
did, lose to every crappy team in the mtn west. So much for the theory that
being capable of being beaten by anyone in the conference is only true now in
hey remember when TEAM WEAK SOUTH DIVISION was suppose to win it all in the new
to Cougar Fan in TXSagarin Ratings as of today - Arizona #63 (not
81), WSU #79 (not 93), OSU #81 (not 96), you were close on Colorado 396 (not
100).Teams you fail to mention include Idaho State # 208, Idaho
#134, New Mexico State #130Utah strength of schedule - 40 BYU strength of schedule - 95Big difference in the schedules this
year when you look at accurate numbers.
Compare the two teams head to head:Red team. 54Blue team 10Blue team quit.
@ nunya"hey remember when Team Weak Wouth Division was suppose
to win it all in the new pac10.2?"Hey remember when "Team
Notre Dame Wannabe" was supposed to win the National Championship this
year? Well that all ended when "Team weak south division" thumped them
54-10 in Happy Valley. hahaha
11:45 p.m apologistCompare the ratingsBYU 74.58Utah 75.79To make predictions for upcoming games, simply compare
the RATINGS ofthe teams in question and allow an ADDITIONAL 3 points for
the hometeam. Thus, a HOME team with a rating of 74.58 would befavored by 2 points over a VISITING team having a rating of 75.79.Despite Utah's 44-point win in September, Sagarin would rate BYU a 2-point
favorite over Utah if BYU and Utah were playing at LES this week.Basically, Sagarin considers Utah's win in September insignificant, when
comparing the two teams today.
Compare two teams head to head:Red team. 14Black and Gold.
17One team wasn't going to win the South Division, play in the
PAC10.2 Championship, or play in the Rose Bowl.The other wasn't
CougFaninTX and Duckhunter,Here are how Utah and BYU compare,
according to Sagarin. SOS, toughest to weakest, top to bottom, Utah on left,
BYU on right:09 USC -14 Texas30 Cal -21 TCU35 ASU -38
Utah40 UW -74 USU45 BYU -81 OSU52 UCLA-83 UCF59 PITT -
93 Hawaii63 Ariz - 95 SJSU79 WSU - 108 Ole Miss81 OSU - 130
NMSU91 MSU - 134 Idaho96 Colo - 208 ISUUtah played 4 top
40 teams, BYU played 3.Utah played 5 teams in the 41-80 range, BYU played
1.Utah played 3 teams ranked 81 or lower, BYU played 8.Utah's
SOS: 40.BYU's SOS: 95.According to Scout, here is how the two
team's opponents' 2011 recruiting classes rank. Utah on left, BYU on right:04 USC - 03 Texas15 CAL - 27 Ole Miss21 UW - 28 TCU43
OSU - 43 OSU47 Pitt - 54 Utah56 UCLA-57 UCF61 WSU - 88
Hawaii62 Colo - 106 SJSU63 BYU - 116 Idaho65 ASU - 117
USU96 Ariz - 120 NMSUBoth teams faced 3 teams in the to
40.Utah faced 7 41-80 teams. BYU played 3.To be continued:
CougFaninTX and Duckhunter,Comparing Utah's and BYU's opponents'
2011 recruiting classes, according to Scout, by rank of average athlete's
rating:11 USC - 1 Texas12 CAL - 19 Ole Miss23 UW - 37
TCU42 UCLA - 40 Utah45 Pitt - 49 OSU49 OSU - 65 UCF50
ASU - 82 USU59 Ariz - 91 Hawaii60 BYU - 103 SJSU61 Colo - 111
Idaho70 WSU - 120 NMSUUtah played 3 top 40 teams. BYU played
4.Utah played 8 41-80 teams. BYU played 2.Utah played 0 teams
ranked below 81. BYU played 5 (Montana State and Idaho State not included since
Scout didn't rank them).Remember, these numbers come from Sagarin
and Scout. They are not mine. They strongly suggest that Utah faced better
athletes/teams this year.Like you, I don't believe Utah would have
beaten Oregon or Stanford this year. But what's your point? If BYU had played
Mississippi State and Florida State instead of Ole Miss and UCF, they would
probably be 6-5 and not 8-3 right now....It's a shame you guys
didn't attend a "research university." If you had been, then you
probably wouldn't draw as many ridiculous conclusions in your posts!
I find it amusing that an article on the Utes brings out the cougars. It seems
their preoccupation with big brother can't be put to rest. Riley didn't mention
the cougars once in this article, but the first page of posts came from the
cougar nation. Nice!One thing that could be mentioned today, but was
left out, hopefully not on purpose, is BYU can win the outright wac championship
today if they hold on against Hawaii. They can run the table in the wac this
year for the first time in school history. And, it looks to get better next year
as most of the top teams in the wac are leaving, so the coogs have a realistic
chance at winning 2 straight wac championships. Visions of the 70's dancing in
our heads. Yea!
Utah '95Does anyone really care about the 'resurch skool' stuff? You guys lost to the Buffs, a program that had lost every road game for
4 years.Thanks Buffs and here, have a Kleenex whiney Ute fans.
@Utah '95Thanks? But I do wonder what any of that had to do with my
post?Riley's claim was that lesson #3 for utah this year is that in
this new conference (pac12) that every team is capable of beating every other
team supposedly because this new conference is different than others' It is a
bcs conference.Well I showed perfectly that riley is false. Not that
every team can't beat every other team, that is obvious, but that this is
something new that only occurs in conferences like the pac12 because they are
somehow so loaded down with superior athletes, etc.The fact is utah
lost to every single team in the mtn west under whittingham's tenure. In
otherwords every single team was capable of beating utah in the mtn west, they
all did it. It seems utah should have learned that lesson a long time ago and it
also seem like that isn't just the case in the pac12.
I love how much BYU fans like to comment on Utah stories. BYU fans are the most
insecure and jealous fans in the nation.
U can say what u want but the pac12 has athletes all over the field. QB is the
number 1 position. Utah has to get better on offense period. If u think a
freshmen is going to start or JW is the answer your wrong. Again this is on
Whitt and poor recruiting at the QB position. START getting some people on the
offensive side of the ball instead of 12 D-linemen
haha yep out comes the Sagarin comments. Instead of looking at reality lets look
at computer numbers.Then how did the Utes who i assume had a higher
"sagarin" than the Buffs. Lose at home?!?!Sagarin means
nothing I'll go make up a bunch of algorithms and stats and be back with my
"sagarin"Pac south division is pathetic. No way anyone can
spin it. The only legit team is USC.Proof was the throttling the
Ducks put on Ucla last night. USC would have made it a game. Anyone else would
have been 30 point underdogs or more.WAC PAC, really no difference.
@17-14I sure hope you are a Buffs fan. If not, there is nothing more
pathetic than using another team besides your own to prove a point. Just like
when BYU football fans use screen names with the TCU-Utah score and now the
CU-Utah score. It seems like you have three big brothers now: TCU, Utah, and
Colorado. You might as well throw in Notre Dame since you guys aspire to be like
them too. Other teams beat Utah while your team couldn't. Can't wait until next
year so Utah can beat the Y again. But it still won't keep BYU fans from running
There are no ridiculous conclusions in my polls. My rankings were taken from
CBSSPORTS Ranking, not Sagarin SOS.Or if you want to look at AP
Rankings, BYU is #32 and U are nowhere to be found.Wins over Hawaii
and Bowl Opponent will likely put BYU in Top 25.An unlikely win for
U against Georgia Tech (if Sun Bowl) or TCU (if Vegas Bowl) will still not put U
in the Top 25.Good luck next year.
Duckhunter,What I took exception with was, "..the myth that
simply because a school is in the pac12, or bcs, that they somehow have superior
athletes..."ESPN, Rivals, and Scout annually publish that the
Pac-12 has more talent than the MWC and WAC (BYU's and Utah's previous
conferences, and in the case of the Cougars, 7 of their 12 2011 opponents). If
my (and their) opinion on this isn't good enough, then float your statement by
some buddies that aren't emotionally invested in the Utah-BYU rivalry and see
what they think of your "myth theory."You did bring up a
good point about Utah having a habit of losing games they should win. The
infamous UNLV game, and Utah's recent faceplant at home to Colorado are
excellent examples. I have long respected BYU's habit of winning the games they
are supposed to, and wished the Utes did better in this category.--------------phoenix and jarka-rus,Sagarin's ratings
don't always predict the outcome. Utah's 44 point win is in the record books.
It matters more than a prediction on a 2011 Utah-BYU rematch that won't be
played."WAC PAC, really no difference." You're really
going with that?
Head to head was 54-10 a LES.Excuses continue from Cougar
Gosh all of you guys are just childish, throwing out dumb "stats" like
that to try and prove a point, who has time to do that? First off, both Utah and
Byu played bellow expectations so get over each other. Second, Utah beat BYU (2
years in a row now) so BYU fans should not start baggin on the Utes. That makes
your team even look more awful (you do realize this right?). In regards to the
article, I think that the Utes did just fine this year for the position they
were put in with injuries and for it being their first year in a premier
conference. It is D-I football people, anyone can beat anyone. They will be
fine, they just need a couple of recruiting classes under their belts. This year
was a lot more fun to watch just because every game meant something. So much
better than the MWC, and a hell of a lot better than boring independence.I love my Utes. John White for President.
"Referring to Arizona (#81), Washington State (#92), Oregon State (#96) and
Colorado (#100) as the Big Boys is worrisome. Utah State (#74) is
ranked higher than any of them. As it turns out, the teams BYU played from the
WAC are ranked about the same as the bottom five teams Utah played from the
PAC12."--CougFaninTxOf course you would choose CBS, as
they have the Cougars rated higher than the Utes. Of course Utah'95 would use
Sagarin, as Sagarin currently has the Utes at 38, BYU 45. So which is the better
team remains debatable. I would argue that a 10-3 Cougar team would
be as stetchy as last year's Ute 10-3 team to make the Top-25. Remembering that
last year 2 of the 3 Ute losses happened vs top-10 teams, both had blow-out
losses (40 to TCU, 44 to Utah) and a cupcake laden schedule. The Utes landed on
the final coaches but not the AP.Also, CBS Sports does not include
FCS teams in their rankings. Sagarin rankings include those teams (i.e Sagarin
has Montana State at 91, which is higher than Hawaii, SJSU, NMSU, Idaho, and
Idaho State). Witnesses.
Cougar fans are hilarious. Head to head, the Utes beat you 54-10. Enough said.
Big Daddy UtahAnd the Utes are Colorado's BFF (Best Friends Forever)
for 2011! And remember the only thing worse than Buffs football
these past 4 years on the road is, uh... losing to them.On behalf of
all Buffs, thank you Utah. That trumps a 54-10 loss to Utah anyday!It's great to be both a Cougar and Buff fan.
Hey utesies?So how did a team with a Sagarin of #37 just wallop a
team with a Sag of #10? hmmm how is this possible? And do any of
you realize that a football team plays more than one game? Love how even you ute
"fans" don't even recognize that your team beat any other teams, just
your big brothers at the Y(which was a fluke). But I can understand, it means
nothing to beat OSU, Zona, Wazzoooo and the buffs(oops lol). 54-10,
well I got one for ya as well. 1984 National champions!!
Utah'95Also in the record books17-14 to a 2 win team.
@Utah'95But it is a myth. Read what I wrote again."the myth that simply because a school is in the pac12, or bcs, they
somehow have superior athletes"Boise st is not on the pac12 or
the bcs. TCU is not in the pac12 or the bcs. Houston is not in the pac12 or the
bcs. Tell me do you believe that duke, kentucky, colorado, vanderbilt, ole miss,
pittsburgh, etc. have "superior" athletes to those non pac12 non bcs
schools?No they don't. But those schools are bcs schools. So it
would seem that "simly being in the pac12, or bcs" does not mean that
school automatically has superior athletes. It is a myth.Now if you
want to claim that pac12, or bcs, schools 'generally' have superior athletes I
might agree, might. There is a reason those schools and conferences are
'generally' considered to be better. But a simple claim that they all have
superior athletes cannot be substantiated and can actually be shown to be
dubious much easier than it can be proven.Lesson #3 is false.
@duckhunterYou did nothing to "prove" that Riley's #3
assertion that in the Pac-12 you have no weeks off, is false. What he was
saying is true. The level of competition is solid from top to bottom, and on
any given week even the teams at the bottom of the conference are capable of
pulling off an upset. The same cannot be said for teams in the MWC, and if you
truly follow that conference, you know that on any given year, there are at
least 3 or 4 teams that will not have a chance of beating the better teams. The list that you provided covered MWC teams over a 6 year period. That
is not the same as it happening every year. And all you have to do is follow
such teams as UNLV this year (2-10), Colorado State (3-9), and New Mexico (1-10)
to see how in a typical year, the bottom 1/3 of the MWC has no chance whatsoever
of beating the upper half of the teams in the conference.Lesson #3
is absolutely true.
I'll admit Utah had a disappointing, but I'm surpised they did as well as they
did after Wynn went down and they had to go with a QB who had no experience.
Utah didn't have any good quality wins however.Utah did beat 3
teams that ended up bowl eligible (BYU, Pitt, and UCLA).BYU fans,
you have no room to talk. BYU beat 1 bowl eligible team all season (USU).When you lose to your rival by 44 points and the only bowl eligible team you
beat is going to "The Famous Idaho Potato Bowl", you can't say you
have a better team, sorry.
@goredAll I listed were the ones that beat utah, not the ones that
upset any of the other top MWC teams. But you know what? You might be partially
correct. Those bottom teams in the MWC were incapable of beating BYU, Bronco
never lost to any of them beside SDSU. I'm not sure if TCU ever lost to any of
them either. Only utah, of the supposedly 'top' mwc team lost to all of the
bottom feeders.But if you want to include everyone in the pac12
please tell me the last time the bottom feeders beat either usc or oregon? But one thing that has never been satisfactorily explained by pac12
apologists is how a bottom feeding team like colorado, beating a mediocre team
like utah, proves that the pac12 is so tough and loaded with talent? Neither of
those teams is particularly good so all it proves to me is that a really bad
team can beat a pretty average team no matter what conference they are members
of.Lesson #3 is a joke.LOL!
@goredIf colorado beat usc or oregon then lesson #3 might be true.
But of course they didn't. None of the bottom feeders beat either of those
teams. Beating a mediocre utah team proves exactly nothing.
After 1 year of PAC-12 recruiting Utah was 2 missed field goals from finishing
4th in the PAC-12 with a D2 QB.As far as I am concerned that is a
bat start. But, losing to Colorado was embarrassing, as embarrassing as BYU
fans now pretending to be Buffs.
Look...54-10...nuff said. We coulda con 1-11 this year but we'd still have
54-10. It means id have to take a lotta heat from fans of the other 11 teams
but not from cougars cause i'd still have enjoyed a 54-10 beatdown on byu.Great season utes.(and not just cause we beat byu) And all
things considered, it was a great season.
Duckhunter | 9:19 p.m. Dec. 3, 2011But one thing that has never been
satisfactorily explained by pac12 apologists is how a bottom feeding team like
colorado, beating a mediocre team like utah, proves that the pac12 is so tough
and loaded with talent?-----------------Oh Ducky. How
about you do your own homework. Go look at the NFL draft. Colorado
has the same talent as BYU, the difference one plays a WAC-lite schedule the
Utah95Dude...you did all of that research and added up all those figures
and your boys still didn't leave their matches and gasoline at home like they
should have. They didn't learn from last year. They were too caught up in
planning for the big celabratory bonfire. Instead they left their game at
home... but not thier matches and extra cans of gasoline. Unfortunately...the
lights went out early so instead of supposedly lighting the fire they planned
for at the end of the season... what to them and in the mindset of their fans
seemed to be an obvious. them being the "Big Success of the
West"... they ended up trying to see thier way out of a major crash site
and wound up setting only themselves on fire. Keep running those figures along
with the others who still don't get it yet...that Utah is nothing but Great
Pretenders...and really can't fly with Eagles
Uteology"Go look at the NFL draft."IDAHO has
players playing in the NFL.Great individual talent doesn't translate
into great teams.If you're going strictly on great recruiting
classes and NFL draftees, Utah should just pack it in now and accept perennial
mediocrity because the Utes will NEVER be able to match the teams in the upper
half of the the PAC 12 conference in talent - USC, Oregon, UCLA, Stanford,
Washington, Cal, and ASU will always have higher ranked recruiting classes than
CougFaninTXIf you hate the Utes sooo much, why do you dedicate your
time to them? Have considered getting your own life?
The Utes did have a somewhat disappointing season. Certainly, the loss to
Colorado was inexcusable. But if you look at the facts, the only game they lost
with their #1 QB was the down-to-the-wire game against USC in the Coliseum. You
remember USC? They same team that put a licking on "invincible"
Oregon? In any case, no matter how bad their season was, they still managed to
"get by" BYU by a mere 44 points.....
@Mr Reality...and what did it get them...a share of money that
someone else earned and whose coattails Utah rode into town on...Big Deal!!!
Injuries like every other facet are part of the game...your analogy still
carries little merit. Heaps had a horrible day....the utes won the game because
they had a better day... just simply another facet...and unfortunately it too
was part of the game. You win some and you lose some...but this year BYU at
least didn't have to depend on someone else to reap it's rewards... which are no
small potatoes compared to what they and Utah earned in the years they dominated
the MWC. The good part is that those days and the self destructive ego of
Craig Thompson are in the past.
Just the FAX-Utah has had two undefeated seasons and two BCS wins
(combined score 66-24) in the last 7 years. You don't to that without recruiting
talent. And they recruited all that talent while playing in the Mountain West.
With the upgrade to the Pac 12, it is hard to imagine there won't be an upgrade
@mr"reality""In any case, no matter how bad their
season was, they still managed to "get by" BYU by a mere 44
points...."That will always be the most important and
meaningfull thing for utah "fans".Plus que les choses
changent plus ils restent les memes.LOL!
@Just the FAX | 10:41 a.m. Dec. 4, 2011True, you need great coaching
to go with the talent. Utah has the coaching, according to Tennessee.True, Idaho has players in the NFL but since 2005, KW and Bronco's first
seasons, does Idaho have:21 players drafted like Utah?Or over
the same period like Oregon with 24 NFL players?Or 16 players like UCLA
from the biggest recruiting market in LA.Or do they have 11 players like
BYU and Colorado?But I seriously doubt they have 40+ NFL players like
USC.I even doubt they had 9 players like the other WAC team from Idaho
Boise.So, you are wrong Utah has the talent they just lack the
depth. For example, just look at our 2nd String D2 QB yet we had 3 first team
PAC-12 players; I think only behind USC, Oregon, Stanford.