Quantcast

Comments about ‘Rabbi, scholar challenge religious bigotry in presidential politics’

Return to article »

Published: Thursday, Dec. 1 2011 11:41 a.m. MST

Comments
  • Oldest first
  • Newest first
  • Most recommended
Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'Rabbi Shmuley Boteach doesn't believe in the same religious teachings and principles espoused by presidential candidates Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman.
"Nor should it matter," he writes in the Jerusalem Post. "It is what a person does, rather than what they believe, that counts." - Article


*'President Obama's purported 'weird'-Mormon strategy against Mitt Romney will backfire, pundits say' - By Hal Boyd, Deseret News - 08/10/11

And yet:

*'Fox News host: Romney not Christian' - By Hal Boyd, Deseret News - 07/17/11

*'Rick Perry backer decries Mitt Romney, Mormons' - By Jamshid Ghazi Askar, Deseret News - 10/08/11

"(Robert) Jeffress described Romney's Mormon faith as a 'cult,' and said evangelicals had only one real option in the 2012 primaries. ... Asked by Politico if he believed Romney is a Christian, Jeffress answered: 'No.' "

*'Trump on Obama's Birth Certificate: 'Maybe It Says He's a Muslim' - Fox Nation - 03/30/11

*'Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows' - By Lauren Green - 08/19/10 - Fox News

Even though in 2009 reports came out that Obama went to...

Easter Sunday.

It should NOT matter.

But to some, it apparently does.

Neuron
Average, SE

Pagan: "It should NOT matter. But to some, it apparently does."

That's exactly what the point of this article is - to state that it (religious beliefs) should not matter. It looks like Pagan is not only agreeing with the Rabbi but also this article (which is what the LDS Church and many Mormons state). How weird is that? Usually Pagan attacks the LDS Church and the Deseret News. Thanks for your support Pagan, even if it was unintentional. If it was intentional, I doubly thank you.

Kramer's Corner
Penryn, CA

This is a great article! I do support Mitt Romney and contributed $50 to his campaign. It's time to stand up for what is right and good. We need a president that can lead not a dictator like our current president who makes condescending statements ( 'weird'-Mormon ). Anti-Romney statements are getting boring. Seems like some anti-Romney-Mormon contributors need a job because they seem to have plenty of time to lurk and comment on anything that pertains to or has a Mormon connection. Not much of a life.

t702
Las Vegas, NV

The Black Liberation Theology was what Rev Wright taught his student, the Havard grad Obama for 20 years. No one sits in such church for 20 years if he/she doesn't share the same beliefs. Oprah left the church a lot sooner than Obama did, why?

To the media Obama and Rev Wright was tabu, but mormon and Mitt are fair game...double standard? One thing is for sure you will never see a Mormon trash America as did THE REV while Obama was praising and taking notes from his mentor.

Kramer's Corner
Penryn, CA

I have supported Mitt Romney and contributed $50 to his campaign. The Rabbi stands up for what is right and good. We need a president that can lead, not the current president who makes condescending statements ( 'weird'-Mormon ). Anti-Romney statements are getting boring and frequent. Seems like some anti-Romney-Mormon contributors have plenty of time to lurk and comment on anything that pertains to or has a Mormon connection. The Rabbi's article is just and thoughtful.

Cats
Somewhere in Time, UT

This is really strange. I don't get it. Harold Bloom has actually written and stated how much he admires Joseph Smith and also other LDS leaders. He has stated in the past that if he hadn't been born Jewish, he would probably be a Mormon. I can't imagine that he really intended to put forward a position of religious bigotry against Mormons. He has been one of our biggest defenders in the past. I don't get this. I wonder if it has somehow been misinterpreted.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'Usually Pagan attacks the LDS Church and the Deseret News. Thanks for your support Pagan, even if it was unintentional. If it was intentional, I doubly thank you.' - Neuron | 12:27 p.m. Dec. 1, 2011

You are welcome.

I love my Mormon friends.

I did try to point out that people attacked the Christianity...

of BOTH Romney and Obama.

The only time I will care about a persons' faith...

is when they use it to factually INFRINGE those belief's, factaully INTO my life.

I could give examples, but rather than focus on the negative, let us verify...

I do not CARE about a persons faith, until it is used to get INTO and AFFECT, my life.

skeptic
Phoenix, AZ

"It is what a person does, rather than what they believe, that counts." - Article

If Mormons agree with the Rabbi on this, then why do Mormons send out missionaries to change what a person believes.

Vanka
Provo, UT

Rabbi Shmuley Boteach insists Romney's religion should not matter. "It is what a person does, rather than what they believe, that counts."

Are religious believers sure you want to take this path in the argument? You are essentially saying a person's religion does not matter.

Well that is what we atheists have been saying for a long time. We have been saying that religion should be meaningless in society - it should not matter!

But if religion does not matter, then why all the fuss to get everyone to join your religion (that does not matter)?

Why judge and condemn those of us who have NO belief in god as being immoral, unworthy, and inferior human beings if it "doesn't matter"?

I think we have found something on which we agree, IF and only IF you take it seriously: religion does not and should not matter!

vermillion
Salt Lake City, UT

@Pagan - more cut-n-paste, non sequitur boilerplate. Like 24/7. All this action is coming to us live from whose basement? You need a new schtick.

I'm still not sure Romney is the guy because of some of conservative credentials are questionable. But let's face it, he is heads, shoulders, and hair above Obama. I thought Carter set an all time low standard of performance while in office, but Obama has eclipsed that easily.

Bottom line is that there are those who are more prepared and qualified to be president than others, and religious affiliation is not and never should be the main qualifier in and of itself.

vermillion
Salt Lake City, UT

@skeptic:

Action is an extension of true belief. I won't put words into the good Rabbi's mouth, but there is a difference between professed belief (just talk) and practiced belief (walking the walk). I'm guessing what he's saying that if belief has any value, you see what that is through the amount of real good that comes from it. Interesting that he is paraphrasing the Christ to make his point.

"By their fruits ye shall know them" - Matthew 7:16

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

' I thought Carter set an all time low standard of performance while in office, but Obama has eclipsed that easily.' - vermillion | 1:41 p.m. Dec. 1, 2011

*'Obama Approval Rating Hits All-Time Low in Gallup Poll' - By Devin Dwyer - ABC News - 08/15/11

'ABC News Devin Dwyer (@devindwyer) reports: President Obamas approval rating has sunk to 39 percent in the latest Gallup daily tracking poll, the lowest point of his presidency.'

*'Historical Presidential Approval Ratings - End of Term ratings:

Jimmy Carter: 34%.

- Source? ABC Historical Archive and Gallup Polls.

*'Bush's Final Approval Rating: 22 Percent' - CBS news - 02/11/09


So:

Obama: 39
Carter: 34
George W. Bush: 22.

Why didn't you bring this up vermillion?

How did you say it?

"By their fruits ye shall know them" - Matthew 7:16

Neuron
Average, SE

skeptic: "If Mormons agree with the Rabbi on this, then why do Mormons send out missionaries to change what a person believes."

The Rabbi was talking about religious beliefs in a political context - the religious beliefs of a candidate should not matter; what should matter is what the person does [politically].

In any case, Mormons accept all truth, regardless the source. LDS missionaries do not go out to change people's beliefs (okay, some do) but rather to offer something to others that hopefully adds to what other people already have. Only a person can change what he or she believes, LDS missionaries cannot change beliefs for others. They offer teachings and authority and hope that others accept.

Vanka, "You [religious believers] are essentially saying a person's religion does not matter. Well that is what we atheists have been saying for a long time. We have been saying that religion should be meaningless in society - it should not matter!"

You distorted what the Rabbi stated (using the rhetoric technique and logical fallacy of equivocation). The Rabbi did not say that religion should not matter in society. You are projecting your own beliefs into the words of others.

donn
layton, UT

@Kramer, The right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness should be grounded in a Christians essential beliefs as well as a Mormons. Bible believing Catholics and Evangelicals agree,no flip flopping here(Romney).

For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mothers womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that well. Psalm 139:13-14 NIV.

(Judgment) Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least(elachistos*1646) of these, ye did it not to me.(MT 25:45). Applicable to* least, in size,(abortion).

RE; Rabbi Shmuley's article also explores the notion of religious fanaticism and the difference between worshipping God and worshipping religion. True
and what doth the LORD(YHWH) require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?(Micah 6:8)
love Him with all the heart, with all the understanding, with all the soul, with all the strength, to love ones neighbor as oneself, is more than all the burnt offerings and sacrifices.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@Kramer's Corner
"like our current president who makes condescending statements ( 'weird'-Mormon )."

When did Obama ever call Mormonism weird?

@Neuron

"LDS missionaries do not go out to change people's beliefs (okay, some do) but rather to offer something to others that hopefully adds to what other people already have. Only a person can change what he or she believes, LDS missionaries cannot change beliefs for others."

Isn't that just a semantics difference? Obviously LDS missionaries can't literally change someone's beliefs but having someone go from not-LDS to LDS is a goal of missionaries and they would like to help a person change their view from not knowing who Joseph Smith is (or any other variant of non-belief that he was a prophet) to believing he was a prophet. I'm pretty sure when people say that LDS missionaries go out to change people's beliefs it's meant in that sense and not "missionaries are implanting datachips in people's brains that make them suddenly really really want to play Settlers of Catan".

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'@Kramer's Corner
"like our current president who makes condescending statements ( 'weird'-Mormon )."

When did Obama ever call Mormonism weird?' - atl134 | 5:13 p.m. Dec. 1, 2011

Obama, did not.

But Kramer fell for it.

Choosing to believe in the worst in a person...

instead of checking what ACTUALLY happened.

The Vanka
Provo, UT

vermillion wrote:

"Action is an extension of true belief..."

So if I do good works, but I am an atheist, what do my good works tell you about my "beliefs"?

And if I do works that are just as good as a believers' works (or even better), how can you say that I am somehow deficient for not believing in god?

Neuron wrote:

"You distorted what the Rabbi stated (using the rhetoric technique and logical fallacy of equivocation). The Rabbi did not say that religion should not matter in society."

If I am not mistaken, politics, the Presidency of the United States, and related issues ARE part of "society", are they not?

So if religion should matter "in society", why wouldn't that include in our votes for POTUS?

My error was not one of "equivocation", but your error was certainly one of failure to extrapolate (deductively) the implications of the Rabbi's obvious meaning. And in so doing you have given us a classic Romneyism: a "flip-flop" that on the one hand says "religion should not matter" and on the other hand "religion should matter".

Good luck with that.

Mizzica
Orem, UT

I think the good Rabbi is calling us all out. Many here laud his thoughts as being fair and unbiased, and I agree. But what does it really mean. Unless I'm mistaken, Romney's poll numbers are strongest in Utah. Is that because his politics match so well with those in the state, or is it because he is LDS and so are most voters in Utah. Granted, we tend to vote for the person we most identify with, but currently that seems to stop at religious identity and not progress to the deeper issues that face our country. Unfortunately, the current Republican debate has degenerated to which candidate is Christian enough to run our country rather than which candidate has the leadership skills to bring the parties together to rationally discuss policies to fix the economy and lead us into a prosperous future.

Mormons who vote for Romney because he is a Mormon are no more inspired and no less bigoted than than the Evangelical right who refuse to vote for him on the same basis.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan
Ypsilanti, MI

Romney polling better in Utah is not provably because Mormons support him. Romney has deep connections with Utah. Also considering how many people oppose him just because he is Mormon, it is impossible to prove that this is not the main factor.

I hasten to add I do not support Romney, but that is a different issue.

I M LDS 2
Provo, UT

Mr. Lambert,

That is baloney and you know it.

to comment

DeseretNews.com encourages a civil dialogue among its readers. We welcome your thoughtful comments.
About comments