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Comments about ‘Christian colleges hurting for students’

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Published: Tuesday, Nov. 29 2011 10:41 a.m. MST

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Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'CNNMoney says these religious schools closed because there are less religious young people to recruit...'

If examples like this are some of the examples of religion:

'In 1991, WBC began conducting peaceful demonstrations opposing the (sic) lifestyle of soul-damning, nation-destroying filth.'
- Westboro Baptist Church

Then I would see no benifit to following such intolerant teachings as well.

DeltaFoxtrot
West Valley, UT

The up and coming generation embraces a much wider perspective of life in the world. In a global society where each of us is more closely connected every day the theme of living should be acceptance, not judgment, of those who differ from you in lifestyle or opinion.

Perhaps organized religion should examine itself and revert to preaching a few core precepts.

Judge not. Love thy neighbor. Treat others as you wish to be treated. Help those less fortunate than yourself. Be responsible. Be humble, not boastful.

Anonymous Infinity
American Fork, UT

Tuition increases across the board in higher education is outrageous. This is an item that ought to be on the news constantly. What also ought to be on the news is the fact that many of these institutions are PC in their views on social issues and have many curriculums that are totally irrelevant to the real world and are not providing employable degrees. The other aspect to this debacle is the U.S. Department of Education and the advocacy groups that foster students getting in debt with student loan programs along with the grant programs that are a total drain on the U.S. Budget. Many universities have created empires for themselves and their cronies with over the top salaries for people that do not teach classes. Why don't news media provide some information on the institutional hierarchy of these elitist educational organizations along with their budgets? This is just the tip of the iceberg.

IMAN
Marlborough, MA

In a related note, 63 million years ago, after roaming the earth for ~175 million years, dinosaurs went extinct.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

My kid fought in Iraq while your kid partied at a non religious college!

ClarkHippo
Tooele, UT

@Pagan 10:49

Your comment suggests the WBC reflects the opinion and behavior of all individuals who attend or have attended Christian affiliated colleges.

No doubt you would gladly shout down and attack anyone who judged all members of the LGBT community based on the worst behavior of a few within that group, yet it's okay for you to do this?

@DeltaFoxtrot 10:59

Some may argue state universities should do the same thing. Sorry, I forgot, state universities follow the rule of political correctness which teaches:

-All opinions are welcome, just so long as we agree with those opinions.

-If we disagree with what you think, we may attack you as a racist, homophobic, neocon fascist.

-Have the pies ready to throw when any conservatives show up.

-We don't want to offend anyone by our words or actions, unless that person deserves to be offended.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'@Pagan 10:49

Your comment suggests the WBC reflects the opinion and behavior of all individuals who attend or have attended Christian affiliated colleges.
No doubt you would gladly shout down and attack anyone who judged all members of the LGBT community based on the worst behavior of a few within that group, yet it's okay for you to do this?' - ClarkHippo | 1:36 p.m. Nov. 29, 2011

I'm sorry.

Are you under the impression villification of LGBT persons does not happen?

*'Utah Pride Center vandalized' - KSL - 08/20/10
*'Silent LGBT protest sparks crude comment' - By Mohammad Allam - The Daily Utah Chronicle - 02/16/10

I can't even REPEAT what Rick Votaw said.

And now I 'shout down' opposition?

Really?

Give me an example.

Moving on.

I have made public statements against 'glittering' Gingrich and Bachman. I have defended Mormons from comparisons of 'zombies.' So 'yes' I in fact DO defend both sides.

But Westboro, with it's 'God Hates....' signs do not REFLECT the lgbt community, does it.

It reflects a christian religion.

Baptist's.

If you don't like me bringing up their actions.

Condemn THEIR factual, actions.

Not, me.

I didn't make those signs.

Owl
Salt Lake City, UT

Westboro represent Westboro, nothing else. You cannot generalize anything that transpires there.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'Westboro represent Westboro, nothing else.' - Owl | 4:53 p.m. Nov. 29, 2011

You can't say 'God Hates...'...

without saying 'God.'

The demographics may be different, but both claim to adhere to a Judeo Christian God.

Mormons themselves, consider themselves a Christian faith, correct?

Now, suddenly, when presented with a bad example, it's 'different?'

How about another?

*'Ga. counseling student in court over view on gays' - By Greg Bluestein - AP - Published by DSNews - 11/29/11

'Correia said Keeton also told her professors she would tell any clients who said they were gay that homosexuality is morally wrong.'

I won't even GET into Nigeria wanting to make it legal to stone a homosexual to death.

This may be pushing association, but ALL these groups claim to represent 'God.'

Not Hindu,
Not Gahnesh,
Not Odin.

But Jehova, father of Christ.

If you don't like it, then you need to get your house in order, and PROMOTE the message of Christ's love and compasssion that we KNOW is out there...

and stop wondering why there is a decline in Christian colleges when there is so much vitrol and hatred spouted in His name.

Munk
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Christian colleges hurting for students? Hmmm.. I have also heard that the quality of education is also a factor. Let us look at BYU.. why has BYU not had to cut it's tuition? Attendance rates remain high... ok, so yes it partly has to do with the fact that it is in Utah and the LDS attendance and so forth. The bottom line is that BYU has an excellent curriculum, excellent faculty and the eduction you get there is outstanding. The same can be said for others such as Notre Dame... etc. etc.

HotGlobe
SAN RAFAEL, CA

Darwin killed God. It is taking a while for people to notice, but given how long God lived, that is not too surprising. Religion for most people now is this thing their parents did, so why not do it too and just try not to think about it very much. Bible is obviously in contradiction to science, beliefs are irrational and fit to a different shape of mind that has long since morphed into something new. Evolution has won and religion is slowly fading away, or collecting into hot-pockets of extreme faith. We can't unsee evolution and return to the old way. The writing is on the wall, for those who care to read it.

hapticz
New York, NY

must agree with others, Westboro is like a defect in the 'data stream of love', there's lots of love hovering, but tidbits of irrational hate scattered about.

how to interpret the messages of a kind and truly loving overseer, often hinges on how astute the one doing it is. too often, some of them are unhinged, without the full capacity to know true love.

teaching and preserving knowledge that sustains, rather than destroys, has more value than any tuition known. the true cost ought not be measured in dollars, but in the time spent, in earnest devotion to the cause of goodness and love.

we all have known those few teachers who had that exceptional quality, to teach and convey, that left us with awe and utter respect. it was something that could not be valued, as it was inherent to them.

(and they often walked in the street, unaffiliated and free by their very nature!)

KC Mormon
Edgerton, KS

Pagan
You said
"But Westboro, with it's 'God Hates....' signs do not REFLECT the lgbt community, does it.

It reflects a christian religion.

Baptist's"
The only thing Fred Phelps and his group "reflects" is his and his families hatred of his gay son. I used to live in Topeka Kansas were they are based. The simple fact is that his group is in reality very small, just his family and a few friends. Before 9/11 people outside of Topeka had never even heard of him yet people including religious people (yes many baptists) tried regularly to shut him down. Some have even gone as far as shooting at his house.
To say that he or his family reflect religion is intentionally misleading and shows a bias against all religion.

The Atheist
Provo, UT

Religious colleges were formed in order to provide a "sanitized" education to religious people who wanted to isolate themselves and their children from the "evils of the world".

It has taken some time, but eventually such protectionist attitudes fail, along with the institutions that try to maintain them.

"Only if you are not afraid of truth can you find it."
So says a classic LDS proselyting filmstrip.
A famous political theorist once said religion is an opiate.
A famous psychologist once said religion is a defense mechanism against fear of death.

If the idea that there is no god SCARES you, what does that tell you?

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

Pagan,

There is no doubt that the LGBT community is sometimes treated very poorly. But your logic reference religion is seriously flawed.

To say that because Westboro invokes the name of the Christian God, all Christianity can be condemned with them is simply beyond the pale,

Can the actions of Jeffrey Dahmer be used to categorize and then criticize all gay men? Of course not. The mere fact that they share one characteristic does not mean they share others.

Owl is correct. Westboro represents Westboro and nothing else.

As to the hatred spewed in the name of Christ. That is a true problem. But disagreement reference the acceptability of gay life (or any other hot button issue) is not the same as hate. Folks can disagree even on significant issues and still maintain a respectful, even loving relationship.

If the deal is that you and I cannot disagree without one of us being labeled as a hater then there is a significant problem with how we approach both definitions and each other.

Vanka
Provo, UT

Twin Lights,

I love how believers will play this to their advantage.

If a Mormon does something good, Mormons are the first to publish it and parade it around saying "See what Mormons are all about! See, I am famous and successful, and I am a Mormon!"

The implicit (and often explicit) message is clear: DO judge Mormonism by this GOOD Mormon!

But when a Mormon does something bad, you all say "You can't judge the whole group by the actions of one person!"

How convenient.

Westboro Baptist Church claims to represent Jesus Christ. So do Mormons. Westboro does what it does "in the name of Jesus Christ". So do Mormons.

If you are going to act "in the name of Jesus Christ", we have every right to judge you - the LOT of you - based on the actions of those of you who claim to represent Jesus Christ.

DeltaFoxtrot
West Valley, UT

Organized religion, the #1 cause of suffering, death and destruction in the history of mankind.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'If the deal is that you and I cannot disagree without one of us being labeled as a hater then there is a significant problem with how we approach both definitions and each other.' - Twin Lights | 7:25 a.m. Nov. 30, 2011

But I did not actually CALL you, a 'hater.'

In fact, I have not called ANYONE a 'hater.'

I DID point out the actions of the Westboro Baptist church, but I did not associate that with Bapsit's, or yourself.

I associated their actions, with THEIR belief, in God. A Judeo Christian God. Not associated with other faiths.

So, please. Stop trying to MAKE yourself the victim by claiming, and without evidence or fact, that someone ELSE is calling you a 'hater'...

when the Westboro Baptist church is sending out a message that includes, but is not limited too....

'God Hates....'

Instead of CONDEMING this action, you try to victimize, yourself.

ClarkHippo
Tooele, UT

@Vanka 8:02

You said - "If you are going to act "in the name of Jesus Christ", we have every right to judge you - the LOT of you - based on the actions of those of you who claim to represent Jesus Christ."

I feel sorry for you, Vanka. Your attitude will choke away many opportunities for you to find the good in people different from yourself. Rather than disavow the hatred and ignorance of the world, it sounds as though you've embraced it with open arms. How truly sad.

There are many people throughout the world who claim to do things either in the name of God or in the name of Jesus Christ. Some of these acts are very good, some are evil, but to lump them all together in one is tragic.

This way of thinking is what starts war and conflict. It is the root of genocide and ethnic cleansing, where men, women and children are killed for no other reason than they belong to the wrong tribe or the wrong religion.

Ignoring the good in others while seeking only the bad might make you feel superior Vanka, but it won't uplift anyone else.

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

Vanka,

So all who follow Jesus Christ are locked in with Westboro and can be painted with the same brush?

By that logic, then the actions of the 911 hijackers are transmitted to all Muslims. After all, they did what they did in the name of Allah, correct?

Atheists do not escape either. Since Stalin was an atheist, all atheists are at least partially complicit in his genocide, right?

For that matter we can extend this to the whole human race. Since there are bad humans, then all humans are part of their evil, okay?

No. The logic simply does not work. The evil acts of a few stand out bad actors does not mean the whole is polluted.

Agreed that the opposite is also true. The positive actions of the one does not mean that the whole group is good.

I would add however, that in many religions (certainly not just the LDS) there are multiple examples of goodness. Some never seen.

Pagan,

No self-victimization. Your 5:10 post clearly lumps all Christians together with Westboro. Just challenging your logic.

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