Comments about ‘Monument to Three Witnesses to the Book of Mormon has stood 100 years’

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A second monument unveiled to honor eight witnesses

Published: Sunday, Nov. 20 2011 10:48 p.m. MST

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voiceofreason1234
SANDY, TX

I would like to see a monument for the three Nephites

ThinksIThink
SEATTLE, WA

How many of the witnesses remained faithful members until the end of their lives? I've heard different accounts but I've never really known for sure. Anybody know?

skeptic
Phoenix, AZ

I would like to see the three Nephites, since they are supposably still roaming around earth.

voiceofreason1234
SANDY, TX

For sure!

Summer
Salt Lake City, UT

@Utter Nonsense
"no court in the land would allow someone to testify that they had seen something with their "spiritual eyes" only."

They didn't testify that they saw only with their "spiritual eyes" - they saw with their own natural eyes. The "spiritual eyes" claim keeps showing up on these discussion boards that doesn't hold up historically. Not to mention that the courts have nothing to do with this.

JoeBlow
Miami Area, Fl

Summer,

Are you saying that none of these witnesses used the term "spiritual eyes" when talking about seeing the plates?

ThinksIThink
SEATTLE, WA

I have read that most or all of the witnesses said they saw the plates with their "spiritual eyes" but why is that less meaningful than seeing them with your earthly eyes. There are 14 million members who have received a testimony without seeing the plates with their earthly eyes, so does it really matter that the witnesses saw with their spiritual eyes?

Marine Corps Vet
Tempe, AZ

I think the acid test regarding the "spiritual eyes" comments is this. Do you, any of you, believe in things spiritual? If the answer is yes then you probably don't have difficulty acknowledging the "spiritual eyes" bit. If the answer is no, then there is not a thing that can be said that would convince you otherwise and your postings on this board are not intended as conversation, but rather as contention.

Incidently, they claim to have not only seen the plates, but to have hefted them, traced the characters with their fingers and turned the pages. I imagine their testimonly would stand in any court except the court of spiteful
opinion.

Not one of the 11 plus 3 witnesses ever recanted that which they had seen and felt regardless of there standing in the church.

ThinksIThink
SEATTLE, WA

I've also read Joseph Smith used a seer stone and did not actually refer to the golden plates while translating. Is that accurate?

Bill in Nebraska
Maryville, MO

To the critics: The same arguments continue to be used. Fact is fact. None of the three or eight witnesses ever recanted their witness or testimony. Oliver Cowdery died as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in good standing. Martin Harris also died in good standing. David Whitmer the last of the three witnesses died last and restated his testimony to his family and the world. He also stated that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God on his death bed when he called his family together.

None of the eight witnesses ever recanted their testimony of the Book of Mormon. Many of the eight not only saw the gold plates, but handled them and turned the pages. Most of the eight witnesses died as members of the Church in good standing. Hyrum Smith died with his brother in Carthage Jail. Samuel would die several days later from pnuemonia that he picked up when running from the mob who killed Joseph Smith and Hyrum.

All of the propaganda produced by you the critics has been shown to be poor and old. Nothing you say can or will change the minds of true believers.

ThinksIThink
SEATTLE, WA

I understand none recanted their testimony, but I'm curious how many of the witnesses remained faithful members until the end of their lives? does anyone know?

Bill in Nebraska
Maryville, MO

ThinksIthink:

Oliver Cowdery - excommunicated in Missiouri. Would rejoin the LDS Church and prepare to leave for the Great Salt Lake when he would die of pneumonia. Buried in Richmond, Missouri. Never recanted his testimony.

David Whitmer - excommunicated. Never rejoined the Church. Testified at death that Joseph Smith was a prohphet of God.

Martin Harris - left the Church in Kirkland. Rejoined the Church and moved to the Great Salt Lake valley. Died as a member of the Church. Never recanted his testimony.

Christian Whitmer - Died a faithful member of the Church in the 1830s.
Jacob Whitmer - Died a faithful member of the Church in the 1830s.
Peter Whitmer - Died a faithful member of the CHurch in the 1830s.

John Whitmer - excommunicated. Never rejoined the Church but stated that Joseph Smith was a prophet, the Book of Mormon was true and that Brigham Young was doing right by the Lord. Didn't agree with polgamy.

Hiram Page - excommunicated with Oliver Cowdery. Never rejoined the Church.

Joseph Smith Sr, Hyrum Smith, and Samuel Smith would all die faithful members of the LDS Church.

It goes to say that even when one has proof put before him, that is not enough to remain faithfull.

Joggle
Clearfield, UT

Please stop perpetuating the myth that there are 14 million (LDS) members who have received a testimony without seeing the plates with their earthly eyes since the LDS Church counts inactive members, those that simply left the Church and no longer believe, but never officially resigned, and others such as children of record. Actual ACTIVE and believing membership is much lower. Many members either have weak testimonies or no testimonies. You see that on this board. Many don't leave because they would feel ostracized or a sense of loss despite their opposing feelings so they stay. Having a large number of believers proves nothing since there are millions of members of other religions who have different beliefs. All religions can't be right and it could be they all are wrong! Faith--firm belief in something for which there is no proof is a strong force to which believers will find any way possible to justify as truth even when there is strong evidence it's not. In the real world we have a human tendency to find meaningful patterns in meaningless noise. You have to believe angels actually exist to believe Joseph Smith's story in the first place! That's a stretch!

Joggle
Clearfield, UT

@Bill in Nebraska

Many of these witnesses left Smith and the organization that he started, believing at best that he was a fallen and false prophet. Smith himself, called into question the general character and reliability of several of these men. This, in spite of the fact that they were close friends and family of Joseph Smith. By 1847 not a single one of the surviving eleven witnesses (except those related to Joseph Smith) was part of the Mormon Church. The LDS Church wants an investigator to accept the testimony of these men as reliable; however, it does not want us to accept their later statements that the Church had lapsed into error and blindness.

To be totally objective, we would conclude that the witnesses neither prove nor disprove the Book of Mormon. However, circumstantial evidence doesn't prove truth. The simple story of the witnesses told by the Church is incomplete and there are some issues that make the story seem much less believable once the rest of the history is known. The testimonies of the witnesses do not appear to be the factual, unquestionably objective event the LDS Church often portrays. Besides, witnesses often have reasons to NOT admit_deception.

Bill in Nebraska
Maryville, MO

Joggle: The fact remains that none of these men ever recanted their testimonies. If you want to know the truth most critics do not consist of the total truth of what has been said.

There is much written about the witnesses to the Book of Mormon. If you care to look at what I have above you will notice exactly the truth. However, these men especially David Whitmer, Martin Harris never recanted their testimonies. In fact, David Whitmer went to great length to ensure that everyone knew that his testimony was still in tact. All he had to do was say it was a forgery and Mormonism would have ceased to exist. That did not nor has it ever happened.

Martin Harris is known to have stated the CHURCH left me, I didn't leave the Church. He moved to Utah where he died. He did rejoin the Church. One of his heirs is currently a member of the Quorum of the Twelve. Who knows more about this man than one of his heirs. None of the critics have ever found one of these men heirs that will say differently than what the Church has stated.

That is a fact.

Ben22jamin
KANSAS CITY, MO

I attended all of the activities this day and it was a special day. I thought the church did a very nice job with the monuments and programs prepared. I just wish my family could have attended this historical day with me. I am thankful for the testimonies bore years ago and on this day.

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