Published: Wednesday, Nov. 16 2011 12:00 a.m. MST
AAE is a front organization for the far-right Hume foundation. Membership in
AAE buys you nothing, while the Education Association is out there fighting for
a little more money and a little more respect from our hostile legislature. As
for "forced union membership," we don't have that in Utah. A
free-riding AAE teacher can sit back and watch while others battle the
legislature and pay their dues, contribute nothing and still reap the benefits
of others' labor. Nice little club...
So why do we compare a right to work state such as Utah to states such as Ohio
and Wisconsin when we want to rip on teacher unions? It is as if we are
comparing oranges to rutabagas. No comparison whatsoever. When I see articles
or letters written from former classroom teachers ripping on the Utah Education
Association, a special interests behemoth (that's a keeper line right there) my
only thought is "Are you kidding me?" If the UEA had as much power as
the author and people such as Senator Stephenson think we had then we would not
be the lowest funded (in terms of the education "beast) in the entire
country. What are these folks afraid of? Again, this is Utah where the sheep
usually follow the shepherd pretty easily. We don't have forced unionism here
and probably never will and that is a good thing. Free agency is a nice word
bandied about here in our great state. We have it. So tell me what scares you
all so much about the UEA? I ask you this question honestly. What scares you?
Union work like these United States -- United we stand, divided we
fall.Ask a Southern 150 years later if they feel "Forced"
into the Union and the answer will still be "yes".
Charity,Your op ed is filled with misconceptions and misrepresentations.
But, I have to give you credit, you are touting the rhetoric we are hearing from
those who do not care about the middle class quite well. The UEA is 18,000
teachers. Your organization does nothing to help students or teachers. I know
this because of teachers who could not be helped by your
"non-political" group. I have one question for you, "How is being
non-political in the world of education a good thing?" Everything done in
classrooms has been decided by a policymaker. Quite frankly, I think teachers
should be running scared from an organization which claims to advocate for
students and teachers while being non-political. Your thoughts do
not resonate in Utah as you are comparing agency fee states to a right-to-work
state. BTW, the citizens of Ohio clearly feel differently as this was defeated
with a resounding vote of the people. Citizens of this great country are tired
of the negative and spiteful rhetoric. We are ready for solutions not
This article is deliberately deceptive. The issue in Ohio was not about right
to work. It WAS union busting, because it prohibited collective bargaining. I
would have supported legislation to make Ohio a Right-To-Work state. Employees
ought to have the choice, as they do in Utah. But to prohibit public unions is
to take advantage of public employees.
Well yeah there's dues but if the size of the paycut and lost benefits people
want thrown at you is more than the amount of the dues is, then are you
surprised that teachers are just cool with the whole union thing?
The legacy of unions in America= made in China.
To "LDS Liberal | 7:04 a.m." since when it it ok to force somebody to
join something taht they don't want to join?The teachers do not
"feel" forced, they are forced.Imagine you were forced to
contribute $1000 each year to the Heritage Foundation. Would you like that, or
would you want to get rid of the law that forced you to contribute to the
Major flaw to this argument is that Capitalism says these teachers are not
"forced" to pay for those dues. The teachers in Ohio fully understand
they have dues taken from their checks, like in other states. If they choose to
teach in Ohio they accept these dues as part of working there. Teachers in Utah
understand they don't have to pay the dues and still receive all the benefits
the teachers union provides for them.They piggy back off the members of the
unions and don't have to pay a thing here for all the benefits they get. Ohio
makes all teacher spay since they all receive the same benefits from the union.
So Capitalism dictates that the best employees will go where they think
they get the greatest benefits. As Utah continues to destroy the teaching
profession, watch lots of teachers flee to states to like Ohio- where unions
still help the teachers.
Oh please.the repub Ohio government wasn't looking to help anyone.
Especially teachers. they were merely looking to punish teachers and win their
ideological war. They were looking to take away the CBA from unions and
teachers. Ridiculous.It's a shame we see so many like this letter
writer bashing teachers.Teachers in Utah put up with a lot of crap.
Terrible salaries, largest class sizes, and constant complaining from the far
right. Lets stop bashing teachers and unions and start supporting them. Whenever
I hear anyone complain about unions, I remember the poem:First they
came for the communists,and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a
communist.Then they came for the trade unionists,and I didn't
speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.Then they came for the
Jews,and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.Then they
came for meand there was no one left to speak out for me.Who
is going to stop big business? Who is going to stop our bought off government?
Who's going to protect the workers?
RedShirt | 8:00 a.m. Nov. 16, 2011 USS Enterprise, UT To "LDS
Liberal | 7:04 a.m." since when it it ok to force somebody to join
something taht they don't want to join?=============== If you don't want to join a Union, don't hire into a Union job.No one is
"forcing" you to do anything. It's really that simple.BTW - One doesn't not always "have" to join the Union.You can
always opt out, but if you sit in a Union represented position, you are still
required to pay an "Agency Fee".RedShirt, You would be the first
to acknowledge that in America, Nobody should ride for Free. Unions share fact
with you.In my experience - if you pay the fee - you might as well
enjoy all the rest of the benefits that Unions have to offer.i.e.,
Vacation, Sick Leave, Retirement, Seniority, Healthcare, 401K, 40 hr work week +
1.5 over-time, filing Grieveances, and free Legal counsel.You know -
everything that created MIDDLE America in the 1st place.FYI -- I
feel more exploited and taken advantaged of by having to pay for 2 Wars we
should never have been in in the 1st place.
The NLRB will lose their fight with Boeing over a new plant to assembly the 787
Dreamliner in South Carolina which is a right to work state.President Reagan had the right idea when the Air Traffic Controllers (PATCO)
got to big for their britches. He fired them, decertified their union, and
refused to rehire the repentant workers who belatedly saw the error of their
If I had a business and a union leader came in and said he was going to
organnize my company I would quit or take it overseas. Up to now $15 trillion
has gone that way.
After all that mud and hate for the workers unions for teacher, the writer
recommends the joining of a competing union. She probably thinks that because
it is labeled as an association it is not the same as a union. Mostly we are all part of the greatest union ever, called the United States of
America. It is a forced union for its members, they have to pay dues, called
taxes. It is also a totally voluntary union, no one is forced to be a citizen.
The important thing about the USA is that it has greatly benefited the members,
called citizens. And like the AAE, and the teachers union, it was created for
that purpose. Worker union bashing is a standard capitalistic
weapon in their never ending quest to have cheap labor. And they consider the
USA as their enemy just as much as the teachers union.
I'm surprised we haven't heard the scream yet --- In Utah it's NOT a union, it's
an Association!Unions are no different than a company -- it's all
about money. Unions are all about money; nothing more, nothing less. There is no
disputing it. Unions are just as bad as the companies they deplore.There should be absolutely no public unions since the public (the people
paying for it) are not represented at the table. Don't tell me that elected
officials are there for the public because we know that's not true. And here I thought LDS Lib was about choice. I want to be a teacher in Ohio
because that's what I love to do. I'm great at it and students love to be in my
class. You're telling me I should go do something else because I don't want to
be forced to join a union? UnbelievableAlso, why don't I get a vote
on where my forced-union dues go for political purposes? I'm not a
Commie/Socialist and would never contribute to their coffers. Why should my
union dues go to those causes without my permission? Why don't they go for
To "LDS Liberal | 9:41 a.m. " actually, you are wrong. The Unions are
a hotbed of corruption and highly questionable activities.Other than
the unions for miners, railroads, and and a few other high risk unions, the
unions are typically corrupt organizations that fight more for their own
existance than for their workers.Actually, unions believe in
"free rides", or at least rides that are as close to free as possible.
For example, the UAW has its rules set so tightly that they control the number
of parts that an employee can work on in a day. If that employee finishes their
parts in 3 hours, they get paid for 8 and go home. Nothing can be done to
change that job, nor can that employee be fired.Read the article
"UAW Members Expose Widespread Corruption" at Labornotes (Pro-Union
web site). They list the MANY corrupt practices of the modern UAW.You complain about the Gadiantons ruining things, but you continue to support
them in their various names. In this case, Unions are part of that problem.Also, you never answered the original question. Would you accept a law
that required you to contribute to the Heritage Foundation?
"UEA have grown into a behemoth special-interest group that funds an agenda
that is out of step with Utahns"I would ask Mrs. Smith what these
issues are. She doesn't appear to feel the need to actually back up her argument
with these crazy things called facts. But that's the way conservative media
works these days. Just throw out the scariest buzz word you can. Seriously, I
almost always disagree with the dude. But the commentor Redshirt includes more
facts in his comments than this entire editorial.
@RedShirt"Imagine you were forced to contribute $1000 each year to
the Heritage Foundation. Would you like that, or would you want to get rid of
the law that forced you to contribute to the Heritage Foundation? "That depends, did the Heritage Foundation get me better salary and
benefits like health insurance?
To "RedShirt | 10:35 a.m."If corruption and fighting for
existance is your measuring stick for eliminating organizations, then you
certainly must be for eliminating the federal government, and state and local
governments, too. Definitely political action committees. Oh, and don't forget
big business, and small business, for that matter. Oh, and let's eliminate
colleges and universities (especially sports programs!), special interest
groups, non-profit organizations...and churches!--probably should have listed
Really? UEA and it's local affiliates do promote a quality education for every
Utah public school child. Utah "unions" are not allowed by law to have
"forced dues." Educators in Utah join the "unionized"
professional organization of UEA because they want real representation,
solutions, professional development, and a say in their workplace and their
careers. Unlike AAE and Ms. Smith's postion, which are funded by pro-voucher and
anti-public education entities, our local NEA and UEA affiliates are dependent
on member dues.
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