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Comments about ‘Yale professor Harold Bloom warns of Romney and Mormon theocracy’

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Published: Monday, Nov. 14 2011 4:18 p.m. MST

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Weber State Graduate
Clearfield, UT

I have been plenty critical of the church, especially involving the church representing as truth many issues that are patently incorrect. However, this "conspiracy" nonsense is simply too much, the idea that an LDS candidate can't think for himself.

Silly comments like "Mormonism's allegiance to elite power and money" and the desire to perpetuate a Mormon theocracy is tantamount to seeing black helicopters over SLC controlled by the brethren with robotic foot soldiers created in the catacombs below the temple ready to be unleashed against the world as soon as Romney becomes president.

Sheesh...

Ranch
HUNTSVILLE, UT

Dadof5sons | 10:02 p.m. Nov. 14, 2011
Montesano, WA
@ Pegan,
It amazes me that you want nothing to do with The LDS faith in any way shape or form. I can respect that. What I don't understand is why you just don't leave it be? You want nothing to do with it but you are always harping on a church that you don't want to belong to. That is a oxymoron. I have no desider to belong to any other church and I never harp on them. Nor does any one else that I know of. seems to me your frustrated with something you just can't let go of.

====

Because your church has gone on the attack of people like Pagan and myself.

Why don't we leave your church alone? Because it won't leave US alone.

When the LDS Church and its members learn to mind their own business and let others live their lives without LDS interference, then we'll stop commenting on your organization.

Live and let live. Until then, don't expect to be allowed to attack others with impugnity.

Flashback
Kearns, UT

A classic example of, "Ever learning but never able to come to the truth."

Whos Life RU Living?
Ogden, UT

Power and money is ok as long as it is protected by the christian shield.

Hmm.. maybe I should play along and be a christian.

m.g. scott
LAYTON, UT

After reading all the posts, I think the third one from Counter-Intelligence said it best. "substitute the word Jews......"

I wonder if Mr. Bloom would be as worried if it were Harry Reid we were talking about?

christoph
Brigham City, UT

It is ironic that Bloom and many other university and media elites who see things in literature, science, culture and life that others of us don't see, are blind to the most important things that the poor and humble see so clearly. (Only poor, middle class and humble are being baptized into this church---rare for a rich person to convert) In his piece, he is critical of a quote by Orson Pratt, which quote might very well have been given by the Apostle Paul who was against living by 614 commandments and emphasized keeping the gospel simple and focused on faith; of course Paul and Peter obeyed Roman law as Pratt followed the constitution. It is true, however, that when it comes to redefining the institution of marriage and justifying it with language in the constitution, we will follow the Bible over the constitution.

abejones
SCOTT DEPOT, WV

I have read many of Professor Bloom's books. He has a way with words,is adept at "tagging" and collects information via the post card route. He has, for instance, his various contacts, expert who supply him with the general ideas and activities of any group. Many books about Mormonism have been written that way by scholars venturing outside their field. G.B.Shaw might also be regarded as a friend of the Church, but he too saw it, ultimately, as endandering itself with an ambition to replace secular authority.As we see, this attitude still remains. As one who views himself as a moderate liberal( i.e. I do not oppose new highways because of a frog pond or bird nest)I will vote for Gov Romney if he is nominated( The many conservatives in my Church are going to face the fact that this nomination will be opposed by Republican conservatives)

Dadof5sons
Montesano, WA

@ Ranch,

Really? so how has the church persononly targeted you! Did they come along and burn your home to the ground? Harrass you at work till you lost your job? Does the church tear down your personal Ideas publicly by naming you? What I see is a bitter person who might have once been a member of the church but could not abide the rules. That is fine if you don't like it please leave and leave the church alone. How ever from History those who leave the church are the most bitter and can never let go and are left to themselves to fight against the pricks. I really feel sorry for you. I hope and pray you can find peace in your heart. I real do.

skeptic
Phoenix, AZ

%Flashback, You state of others that they are: "Ever learning but never able to come to the truth." Is it possible that perhaps you maybe never learning and never recognizing the truth. Something to think about. Especially in esoteric matters of religion where no one knows. So is it better to just think you know and close your mind, or maybe keep an open mind concerning others and questions to which there are no true answers yet known to man.

KM
Cedar Hills, UT

So let me get this straight, The Mormons are to be feared, yet the members of Reverend Wrights church are to be elected? Sure!

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

In other words, Bloom thinks the church has betrayed the original vision of Joseph Smith....

============

Agreed--

Mormons in 1844:

Tolerance
Inclusion
Environmentalism
Socialism - United Order
Womens Right (prior to Womens Suffrage)
Universal Welfare Programs
Free Speech
Free Religion (who, where, what they may)
Sustaining Vote

Liberal concepts then -- Liberal concepts now.

Then drive through Herriman, Saratoga Springs or Alpine, and look at all the McMansions and Cadillac Escalades...

Utah Mormons have let go of the rod, and are turning more and more toward the
"Large and Spacious Building" and "fine appearal".

ThinksIThink
SEATTLE, WA

I've never heard an active member of the LDS Church accept criticism from someone regarding the truth of the Book of Mormon. The only time a person is willing to accept such criticism is when they no longer believe.

One of Vai's Cousins
DC, Washington

Professor Bloom loved the courage and originality of early LDS leaders and theology. I think he saw it as progressively losing it's courage and uniqueness following the manifesto.

He is right about the fact that today's LDS Church is VERY different from the early LDS Church of JS, BY and JT. For modern Mormons, that difference is a very good thing as we would not have a fraction of the membership we do today or very likely would long since have become extinct as a church had we not changed as drastically as we did.

But the fact remains that LDS doctrine, beliefs, practices, policies, and culture has changed a great deal. Most Mormons attribute that to the wisdom and inspiration of modern day Prophets. I personally have struggled with a "restoration" of truth that is actually dramatically different today than when it was originally restored under JS.

But I do agree with many comments that the Church is not money or power hungry. A 2 billion dollar mall and closed financial records do not help that argument but I see the Church as much more pragmatic, business savvy and modern than money and power hungry.

ClarkHippo
Tooele, UT

@Ranch 7:22

Speaking for myself, as a Latter-day Saint, I may not always agree with your opinion or the opinion of people like Pagan, but I do respect what you have to say.

Because the LDS Church has taken a position on certain issues, and because the vast majority of Utah lawmakers are LDS, I totally understand my faith is going to face some criticism and even some hostility.

I feel so grateful to live in a country where we can have discussions like this without killing each other in the street.

@LDS Liberal 9:30

You said - I know a few people who would take issue with some of your definitions.

Tolerance (Sorry, but the Democratic Party hardly has a monopoly on this one)

Inclusion (recent misleading attacks on the LDS Church by Lawrence O'Donnell and Bill Maher leave this one up in the air)

Socialism - United Order (Sorry, but two are different. In the United Order, people still own their own property)

Free Speech (Then why are some liberals wanting to regulate Fox News, conservative talk and what is said on college campuses?)

Free religion (As long as they shut up and stay invisible)

skeptic
Phoenix, AZ

ThinksIThink: Do you realize that the LDS church has critict the BOM and made changes to it, are you saying the church no longer believes.

SSMD
Silver Spring, MD

LDS Liberal:
Are judging the righteousness of the folks in Alpine, etc.? Worry about the beam in your own eye.
I live in a stake with many wealthy LDS (BTW, I'm not wealthy)in big houses (many with large families) and am in a position to see how often and generously they bless the lives of others, especially the less fortunate, with their wealth. It is very faith-promoting.
And, BTW, the United Order was not socialism. It was freely entered into and freely left, without the compulsion necessary to impose socialism.

radically_independent
Orem, Utah

I think we really get confused between Mormon Culture and Mormon Doctrine. They should be clearly seperate, but unfortunately manytimes they merge in unintended ways.

For example, how many times have we seen someone beleive that their calling is some kind of religious validation of how spiritual they are compared with their peers. Heck, how often do we see members beleive in self superiourity over their non-member counter parts simply by virtue in their membership in the church. That they are somehow the "elect".

Any yet some of the most spiritual people I know serve in the most humble of callings. And I haveequally seen those who actively try to promote themselves into desired or prestigous callings.

Personal pride and the need to self validate exist in every organization. It does not mean that is the organizations role or goal. People have a way of messing up even the most well intended of organizations.

CT98
Saint George, UT

I had the distinct priviledge of sitting in Dr. Bloom's New Haven home one day and sharing my testimony of Joseph Smith with the Yale Professor. My companion and I tracted into him one day in 1997 while serving as missionaries in New Haven, CT. I was completely shocked during our door-step introduction when Dr. Bloom told me he had met personally met with Thomas Monson in Salt Lake City in 1991. Dr. Bloom invited us into his living room and we had a very interesting 30-minute conversation. He told me he was convinced Joseph Smith could not have written the Book of Mormon; the book was too complex to have been written by a farm boy. I jumped at the opportunity to share my testimony of the boy Prophet and told him I knew the book to be divine. Dr. Bloom was very respectful of my beliefs. He thanked us for our visit and we went along our way. Maybe one day.....

skeptic
Phoenix, AZ

@Charles, It seems that recognizing many Mormons true god is the gold in their pocket has really hit a sore spot. But,it seems that the truth would be if Mormons really believed the teachings of JS and the BOM and really knew the things they say that they know to be true, then their lives would be much more about spiritual values and less about material well being. It is said that you can't take it with you; or is there some Mormon twist to that where indeed you can.

Peter Marlow
GRANADA HILLS, CA

When I see the wild and unsubstantiated derisions and accusations made against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that invariably appear in the readers comments of news and opinion articles about it, I can understand. To put it politely, the misinformed lead the misinformed. The same old anti-Mormon talking points that had their origins in the more than 100 year-old recruitment tracts of the Klu Klux Klan are still with us today.

But when intelligent people like Harold Bloom opine with comments on a similar level, those who know the facts are perplexed. If Bloom is going to pass judgment on the state of the LDS Church today, he should study it, not what others say about it.

His superficial view of the current leadership of the LDS Church is useless just biased speculation. Did Bloom bother to get to know any of them? Why the accusations of greed? Where is the substance to his arguments? Why doesnt he accompany President Thomas S. Monson at work for a week and then write about that? President Monson is well into his 80s. That should be easy, right?

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