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Comments about ‘Some truths are 'most worth knowing,' Pres. Boyd K. Packer tells students’

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Published: Sunday, Nov. 6 2011 10:13 p.m. MST

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Joey D
WEST VALLEY CITY, UT

Neanderthal | 10:20 a.m. Nov. 7, 2011

Good question, maybe you're ready for the LDS Missionaries to visit.

JNA
Layton, UT

I read these comments and how there are arguments going back and forth on what is truth, what isn't truth, religion bad, religion good blah blah blah. Bottom line, those who don't want religion don't want relgion, so quit pushing it on them and those who want religion and a testimony have the right to have that testimony without the anti relgion crowd trying to denegrate the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I am an active member of that church, I love the Church, I have a testimony of the truths of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. If after we all die it turns out to be wrong then so be it, I was wrong and if it turns out to be true then so be it. I won't knock the anti religious views of athiests but I expect the athiests and those who dislike the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to give me the same respect and I don't need to read the research of those who are bent on ruining the Church. What credibility to they have on being subjective in the matter.

very concerned
Sandy, UT

This life is for all the marbles. Our potential is far beyond playing harps on clouds. We have the potential for unending joy in the presence of our Father. The debt we owe is for our disobedience to the truths He reveals. The debt we owe is to justice, or perhaps to the people we have hurt. Or to their Heavenly Father. Or to all of the above?

You say that justice is higher than God. I respectfully disagree. Would you have a God Who denied justice? Or would you have One Who did not apply mercy? Or would you not want a loving God who meets justice and also applies mercy?

We are not perfect. We cannot make ourselves perfect. Not without the grace and mercy of God. He will extend that mercy if we do all we can to follow His Son and accept His Son's essential role in our eternal lives.

So we leave off where we began. We have the potential for a great, unimaginable, and joyful future that we do not deserve on our own. I'm extremely greatful for a beautiful plan which provides that opportunity through such a perfect Mediator as Jesus Christ.

Miss Piggie
Salt Lake, UTah

@Mick:

"Christ didn't pay for the sins of mankind on the cross.:

Wait a minute. If He, for some reason, were to have avoided death on the cross and died a natural death in His old age, would sins have been paid for?

"It happened in the Garden of Gethsemane."

What happened in the Garden? All we know from writings of the incident is that he agonized and sweat alot.

"All I know is that it happened. The willingness to give his life on the cross was the sealing of his mission and life with his own blood."

There, you have it. Giving up His life is the operative phrase.

ThinksIThink
SEATTLE, WA

Wow, some amazing comments here. I think a real important distinction between the two camps is this: If you are told the answer, and then told to pray for confirmation, you' may get that confirmation. But if you just seek truth, without being told the answer you should arrive at, well, you'll come up with something else.

For those who receive confirmation the book of mormon is true, they really aren't making a historical judgment (in my opinion). I think they look at the value system and it feels like a good thing - and it may well be for them. For those that seek to know whether the BOM is historically true, they will most likely arrive at a different conclusion.

I think its reasonable for folks on both sides to talk about the conclusions they reached in their individual quests for truth. I try to respect both approaches.

higv
Dietrich, ID

What makes an apostate like Grant Palmers opiniions more valuble than a living apostles. Are there commandments some dissenters don't want to keep? The best source of truth is God himself. And since he is not the author of confusion or a respector of persons he won't say one thing to one person on how to worship and another to someone else. The best source of truth is the Lord through his servants themself.

Full-on double rainbow
Bluffdale, UT

I have always assumed that "some truths aren't very useful" meant that if a truth comes in opposition to your faith then it isn't a useful truth. For example, it is not a useful truth how Joseph translated the BOM, just that it was done by the power of God. It doesn't matter that he put his face in a hat and used a seer stone he found at the bottom of a well, and that the golden plates often times weren't even used. I would respectfuly disagree, all faith based truth claims are important when evaluating the whole.

bluecoug89
Highland, UT

So many people in this world are trying to tell me how wrong my religion is. They tell me that the Book of Mormon isn't true because there isn't archaeological evidence. First of all, if you go to places like Guatemala and other places in southern mexico, the archaeologists know that there are still hundreds if not thousands of sites that they haven't even dug up yet. Second of all, people rely too much on their own understanding and not the Lord's. They say, "if I can't see it, it's not true". Have you seen Jesus Christ? Have you seen the Holy Ghost? If you haven't seen them, how do you know they are there? People will say, "the bible told me so." Not everyone believes in the bible. So you are basing your belief on a book that over half the world doesn't believe. I can tell you that many times in our lives, feeling is much more important than seeing. If we only look with our eyes and search with our eyes, we will be limited to what we can only see and find here on earth. I search with my heart and I have found truth.

bluecoug89
Highland, UT

Full-on double rainbow,

Thank you for bringing that up. It's important to know how Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon. Oh no! He stuck his face in a hat with a seer stone inside? Now my church isn't true! You really think that because Joseph Smith stuck his face in a hat that is in opposition to my faith? Really? You obviously don't know us very well. Anyone who knows anything about the history of the church knows that he did that yet most of them seem to stick around. How is him sticking his face in a hat going to rock me to the core and make me question my faith? And you're wrong, there are many truths that aren't useful. The sky is blue, the ocean is salty, there are 7 continents, etc. How do those help me with my salvation? How about important ones like Jesus Christ suffered for our sins and died for us, Jesus Christ gave us a perfect example of how to live, we need to love one another, etc. I think there are some truths that "aren't very useful" in relation to others.

Brahmabull
sandy, ut

bluecoug89 - that is great that you believe the Book of Mormon is true. But unfortunately that doesn't MAKE it true. The Book of Mormon has good teachings, but because some people believe it doesn't actually make it true. People of other religions swear they have the truth, they KNOW it is true, and still, it doesn't make it so.

bluecoug89
Highland, UT

Look, I don't want to start an argument, I just wanted to let you all know what I believe. I respect everyone's opinions and if I came across differently, I apologize. You are right Brahmabull, just because I believe it's true doesn't make it true. What makes it true is its origins but I can't force that on anyone. People have to come to their own educated conclusions about the book. That's done by reading it and asking in prayer if it's true or not. If we believe in the same God and we believe in prayer, don't we believe that he'll answer us and guide us to what is correct? He wants us all to come unto him and have joy. Why would he lead us astray? I want to make an invitation to everyone. Read the Book of Mormon. Don't do it with a bias but approach it with the mentality to know if it's true or not. Then ask Heavenly Father, in sincere prayer, if it's true. He will answer you and he won't lie to you. Come to know for YOURSELF if it's true.

ClarkKent
Bountiful, Utah

I wonder about any religion that believes they need to have something special .. something above and beyond what any other church has ... in order to prove its truthfulness. Somehow I don't think that God works that way. Why would He create literally billions of people without affording all of them the opportunity during their mortal lifetime to know the right way back to him. If there is such a map, He would give it to everyone. Just seems like a ridiculous notion to me.

Brahmabull
sandy, ut

bluecoug89 - Thank you for the response, clearly you do believe in the church and that is great. However I disagree with you on something. It is not that god is leading people astray. Obviously many many people have read the book of mormon and didn't get a confirmation that it was true. If that is the case, why are they getting a different answer than you got? You may say they weren't sincere, or humble, or many other things. We don't know their heart. May I propose that we get the answer that we desire, those who believe with their mind that it is true get a "spiritual confirmation" that it is true and those who don't believe it don't get that witness. That is why the spirit is so unreliable. I have asked during prayer many times and it simply isn't there. Does that mean something is wrong with me, or just that it isn't true. Because I feel just as strongly that it ISN'T true as you do that it IS true. So truth is subjective, one persons truth isn't anothers. Why would god only allow 1/10 of 1 percent to have the truth??

Jeff
Temple City, CA

@ ClarkKent: You use a number of rhetorical devices that I think deserve comment. First, you ask, "Why would [God] create literally billions of people without affording all of them the opportunity during their mortal lifetime to know the right way back to him[?]"

You treat this as a rhetorical question, but in order to be such, it must have an obvious answer, and there is no obvious answer. The answers my faith provide satisfy me.

You continue, "If there is such a map..." You apparently mean to cast doubt on the existence of the "map," since you are not providing more premises for a syllogism.

"He would give it to everyone." Your presumption here is vague. It cannot be the conclusion of a simple syllogism because you only have one premise; you provide no evidence that God behaves according to your expectations or that He hasn't made "it" available to everyone.

"Just seems like a ridiculous notion to me." Granted.

@ Brahmabull: You, too, ask a number of rhetorical questions for which is there is no simple, universal answer, or, for which you seem to be begging for a certain inference. For example, "no answer" does not mean "not true."

Robbie512
PROVO, UT

There are indeed some things in Mormon doctrine that dont make sense. Ive heard my own leaders admit this many times. However, none of that matters, if an omniscient, omnipotent and loving being confirms that they are true. The entire matter rests on this.

Personally, however, I don't think that one can identify the source of such feelings with confidence. They could indeed come from God, that is certainly a possibility, but they could just as easily come from within myself (as do many other feelings). I dont think you can know for sure and, given the uncertainty, I see no problem with evaluating the doctrine on its own merits. That being said, it is interesting that this idea fits very well with church doctrine: this life is a test of faith, and a sure knowledge of God would defeat that purpose.

ClarkKent
Bountiful, Utah

@Jeff, and the answers my faith provide me also provide the answers.

Mizzica
Orem, UT

Jeff: " For example, "no answer" does not mean "not true.""

It also does not mean "true," yet you would expect anyone asking to remain in a state of "expecting truth" rather than a neutral state.

Using the model set in Alma 32, after one plants, nurtures, and feeds the seed, it is then required to a wait within the season for the seed to germinate and grow to determine if it is good. If one were to plant a seed, water and fertilize, then wait, say, 20 years and nothing sprouted, it could be assumed that the test had failed and the seed was not good. In fact, a month would be more than sufficient. If the tester were to wait longer, watering and fertilizing, it would be difficult to know, when something sprouted, whether it was the seed, a volunteer, or a weed.

There must be a limit, and a time when one says, "I've waited long enough. If God wants me to know this is true, he hasn't said. I'll look deeper and try other seeds to see if they produce results."

OnlytheCross
Bakersfield, CA

Mick in Murray- your version of "truth" makes a mockery of what the Bible claims is Truth re: Where and How Jesus Christ paid for man's sins. God's Word cannot be twisted and reclaimed without His truth being subjective and compromised. Elder Packer made that clear with his unequivocal repudiation of pornography. But his agreeing with God on that one subject alone does not make all of his beliefs on what constitutes truth all-inclusive any more than Muslim and Jewish anti-porneo teachings would render the rest of their beliefs consensual with the New Testament, would it?

According to the Bible, false teachers can espouse some truth mixed with their own apostate teachings. God outlines explicilty how to handle them.

Your different version about the Garden of Gethsemane nullifies what Christ's eyewitnesses wrote about our Savior and died for ultimately. Satan challenged God's words in the Garden of Eden and deceived Eve. He misquoted the Word to Jesus following his 40-day fast. Every time Satan is mentioned in God's Word, He is portrayed as a deceiver and distorter of truth. Christ repeatedly told the crowds, "You have heard it said, but it is written...".

Truth will reign.

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

Independent Liberal
The grace is intrinsic in the fact that the mediator owes nothing to the debtor. He does what he does out of love, not obligation. As you say, in return he only asks that we accept and follow Him.

Vanka
There is no bureaucracy of mediators. Rather, they are judges (as in the time of Christ and immediately afterward) to look over his kingdom and administer the ordinances with authority. There is only one mediator.

Do you owe a spiritual debt? I leave that to you and the Lord. Based on what you do know, have you never failed, never done wrong, never hurt anyone, never been anything less than perfect? I wish I could say anything remotely close.

Thinkman
I do feel stronger. You can rest at ease. I searched the claims and had absolutely no desire for them to be true (quite the opposite). But here I am.

Mizzica
I can only say that in my own experience and those whom I have taught, honest inquiry elicits an answer. I know that may not be your situation. It is simply what I have observed. Sorry if it has not worked out for you that way.

Filo Doughboy
Bakersfield, CA

Thank you, fellow Backo neighbor (OTCross). Well said: There cannot be many "truths" that contradict each other essentially. The Bible never states that Christ's transaction for our sins was partially made in the Garden. It doesn't state the LDS version either, that the "atonement" was accomplished in the Garden and finalized on the Cross. That is another 'truth', another gospel, no where found in the Holy Bible or the JST.

I would ask Elder Packer how many truths there are, and which ones are of lesser importance. I ask friends to choose which side of the Biblical divide they are on. It's either what it claims it is as God's Truth, or it has been compromised. I am also on the side of Only the Cross for Christ's transaction as the most important truth. Adding works, ordinances, new visions and Biblical revisions nullifies your trust in the Bible as God's Word.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God." You don't have to believe or understand it. But you cannot redefine it 1,910 years later and claim your revision as the truth. Only One Way, Truth and Life exists.

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