Comments about ‘Some truths are 'most worth knowing,' Pres. Boyd K. Packer tells students’

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Published: Sunday, Nov. 6 2011 10:13 p.m. MST

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Full-on double rainbow
Bluffdale, UT

"Some truths are more useful..." Is that equivalent to Some things that are true are not very useful.?

zeba
North Ogden, UT

If "all truth is worth knowing", then I highly recommend reading Grant Palmer's book, "An Insider's View of Mormon Origins". This book was sold at Deseret Books and is very interesting. Read it, then you can decide which truths are "most worth knowing".

Brahmabull
sandy, ut

"all truth is worth knowing"... Unless it is truth against the teachings or credibility of the church... then it is not worth knowing.

ipr
Spanish Fork, UT

I love this talk. President Packer has a way of stating things exactly the way they are.

open minded
Lehi, UT

I only hope that more LDS members follow the message of this story: it is the mediator/redeemer who will dole out justice not the people of this earth. It is our job to show mercy and allow Christ to judge what form of justice people receive. Too many people in Utah, especially Utah county, feel they must be the ones to make sure justice is dealt for any sinner or debtor. True believers in Christ understand that the afterlife is the place of judgment and our job on this earth is to live in a way where we work towards our own judgement. If we are so worried about making sure others have consequences we feel they should have instead of worrying about the consequences of our own actions, we will be judged for that.
It is our job to try and live like Christ did- with unconditional love and mercy in our hearts every day. We must live in a way that only helps our fellow man. If love is in our hearts and we are striving toward perfect love, we are following Christ. If we are worried about giving justice to others- that is not love.

  • 9:22 a.m. Nov. 7, 2011
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Thinkman
Provo, UT

Truth never changes unless of course a truth isn't convenient to your view or doesn't help to advance your agenda.

I've learned so many truths about religion that the one truth I've learned that is indisputable is that NO religion has a corner on all truth and ALL religions are founded on errors mixed with truths.

Elder Packer recommends that we find the truths most worth knowing. Since Mormons are expected to spend a minimum of 3 hours a week at church and also give to the LDS church at least 10% of their income, I strongly recommend they know the FULL truth of the LDS church. I suggest that every Mormon research the truth of the LDS church from all sources both inside and outside of the church. Search truths about the LDS church that are positive, negative and neutral. I recommend that you watch "The Mormons" that PBS aired in 2007. You can find that on their website. It provided a balanced snapshot of the LDS Church. Other very useful, neutral websites are available that help you think through and find truths about the LDS Church.

In your search for truth, THINK with your full mind.

Summer
Salt Lake City, UT

@Thinkman

Yes search the full truth and become educated. I did that and am currently doing that. Testimony stronger because of it. Sorry that my conclusion is not what you probably wanted.

Neanderthal
Salt Lake, UTah

Wait a minute!

Just why is a 'Mediator' a necessity? It didn't seem necessary for folks in the old Testament. They seemed to do OK without One. For example, Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden and apparently got retrieve. This being centuries before the 'Mediator' even showed up on the scene to explain the program or pay the debt.

Why not just work out an agreement for repayment of the obligation direct with the 'Creditor?' And don't say it won't work. One has to obtain 'perfection' to enter the 'Creditor's' kingdom whether there's a 'Mediator' or not. That should be payment enough.

Furthermore, since the debt is between man and the 'Creditor,' it would seem only fair that He'd show up more often to clear up concerns about debt payment options. Don't we read in the Old Testament where the 'Creditor' walked daily with His people? Plus, the world is full of so-called non Christians who don't even believe in the 'mediator' or the 'Creditor.' It would help to get some degree of face time for them.

On the whole, there seems to be too much secrecy and arbitrariness about the whole affair. So, go figure.

IndependentLiberal
Salt Lake City, UT

APOV,
It is interesting that BP Packer left out of his talk in dealing with Gods righteousness and Christs redemption, another of Christs nature which is Grace.

Justice, getting what we deserve
Mercy, not getting what we deserve
Grace, getting what we dont deserve

He totally leaves out grace. In his parable, he describes Christ as a debt consolidation mediator, when in fact when Jesus uttered on the cross, it is finished, he PAYED THE DEBT (sin) in full. He gave us what we didnt deserve, and asked only that we accept and follow Him. Another theological omission that helps create the divide.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

When you bring a religious perspective to it, 'truth' becomes an almost entirely subjective commodity. Anything can be truth, nothing can be truth, and the medium itself, to quote Marshall MacLuhan, becomes the message. There are truths worth knowing. Mine may be different than yours.

The Vanka
Provo, UT

I met Elder Packer once. Very interesting man. He sure is looking old. I haven't always agreed with what he preaches, but you can't fault him for mincing words. He tells it how he sees it.

I agree with Neanderthal, but take it a bit further. IF I owed a "spiritual debt" (what does that even mean?), why would I need to go through a huge bureaucracy of mediators: local Bishop to get baptized and confirmed, Stake President for temple recommend, various layers of Church hierarchy up through the Quorum of the 12 Apostles and the First Presidency - I have to go through them to get the word of god in order to obey it so that I can be cleansed from sin. Only then do I get access to Jesus Christ, but that is done ONLY through yet another "mediator": the Holy Ghost.

It seems a just and righteous god would have been able to create something much more efficient and effective than this MLM-like model.

But I would have to be convinced that I owed a "spiritual debt" in the first place. What exactly is this "spiritual debt"? I don't believe in it. Why should I?

dalefarr
South Jordan, Utah

I don't think our relationship with God or his son is a debtor/creditor relationship. We are God's creation. Christ is our brother. Lastly, mercy does not rob justice. It is a gift.

The Vanka
Provo, UT

This is a serious question. I am not "trolling" to make "anti-" comments. I really want to know.

The article paraphrases Packer as saying: "All people live on spiritual credit."

I don't.

I never borrowed anything from god or Jesus, much less anything "spiritual".

If a stranger (or two strangers in shirts and ties) come to your door telling you you owe a debt, are you just going to accept that? "Oh, OK, you guys look honest. How much do I owe you?"

This is the crux of religion's thesis, upon which everything else depends: what is the nature of this so-called "spiritual debt" all humans are supposed to have incurred? And how, exactly, does/did Roman soldiers' killing Jesus somehow "pay" that debt? To whom was the debt owed? God the Father? How did killing His own Son "pay" that strange debt? What was the nature of God's loss such that Jesus' blood being spilt re-compensated God?

Moreover, I understood LDS doctrine to deny the notion of "original sin", AND to base "sin" on knowledge: one cannot be guilty of sin if one never knew the "law". Since you can't know what I know: John8:46.

Thinkman
Provo, UT

I'm very happy for those whose testimonies are stronger.

Have you researched why Joseph used a rock in a hat to translate the Book of Mormon. Did you find out that the Book of Abraham papyrus was actually funeral proceedings and not a history of Abraham, his life, and the Creation?

In your search for the full truth, did you discover that the temple ordinances have changed multiple times from the time that Joseph Smith revealed them? In your search for the full truth did you also read the Nauvoo Expositor text and how it actually pleaded with love and respect to Joseph Smith to change his ways? Did you also know that Joseph Smith married other men's wives who were still married?

I want all Mormons (I'm a Mormon) to search the full truth no matter how hard it may be to read and then think through your decision on how much you want the LDS Church to be part of your life. If the LDS Church is the center of your life and you have made it so after searching the full truth of it then I applaud you and wish you all happiness.

Cats
Somewhere in Time, UT

I just always think it is so sad that all these unhappy people keep trying to solve their problems and justify their unfortunate choices by attacking those who teach truth. You don't have to be this unhappy, you know. You can repent and change. I promise you it will be worth it. You will find joy in your life and have a great burden lifted off your shoulders.

President Packer's talk was AWSOME!

Franjeado
Lambare, Paraguay

Dalefarr, the opportunity to repent is the gift, given by Christ; if we do not repent, we are alone to face justice by ourselves.

Thinkman
Provo, UT

When I searched the truth of the LDS church from sources positive towards the church, neutral to it and even negative towards it and then thought through all the claims from each of these sides, I came to the undeniable conclusion that the LDS church has no more authority or truth than any other religion or church, Christian or otherwise.

I did take Moroni's challenge and even taught multitudes of people on my Mormon mission to do the same. I came to the conclusion that the Book of Mormon and the LDS church were what they claimed to be. I came to that conclusion because I wanted them to be true even after studying the gospel, teaching it and fasting and praying about and attending the temple faithfully for over 2 decades. However, after thinking it through, seriously studying the claims of the LDS church, I found it it wasn't in fact true.

I've never been happier than I am today. Why? Because my happiness depends on me and no one else - not my membership or status in a church, not God, not my wife, not my children, not my friends. I am happy because I choose to be.

kiaoraguy
Provo, UT

wow, didn't know there so many people out there so much smarter than President Packer- he will be surprised that he is so wrong on things and I am sure he will come around to all of your 'enlightened' thinking

ADN
Weiser, ID

It sounds like a lot of people are trying to convince themselves of thier own truths. Just because we believe something strong enough doesn't make it a truth.

Bastiatarian
TUCSON, AZ

>Some things that are true are not very useful.

That's an obvious truth, and a very useful one itself.
For example, I know that Kim Kardashian and her husband filed for divorce after a bit over two months of marriage. That's a truth that is not useful to me to any degree or for any purpose other than its use in this example. Fortunately, I spent no real time or effort discovering that truth about Ms. Kardashian and her husband, so I haven't really lost out on the deal too terribly much.

On the other hand, knowing that people who mock, etc., the observation that not all truths were created equal are typically intellectually slothful and more often than not lacking in character is very useful, since I am committed to associating only with a better class of people, and that knowledge helps me avoid the gutter class.

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