DR Hall: You missed the point. It may sound nice to say government should pay
for all of the health care needs of the poor, but that is not a morally superior
position as you and others seem to assert. It is easy to be generous when
someone else pays for it. In the current system the "someone else"
will be our grandchildren when they are hit with the huge debt we are passing
If he goes with the voucher plan for medicare that should mean that those who
have $100+ taken out of their social security check every month to cover the
cost of the medicare premium will then have that money in their pockets.It will not be fair/right for the older citizens to have to pay twice
for medical coverage and the government in my opinion will be double-dipping
into the less fortunate citizens' pockets.
most of those commenting are making huge assumptions and do not know the
specifics...I trust that Romney's plan will be a good one.there must
be responsible people who understand turning around this nations economic
situation will take some sacrifice and a new approach to many things.
Why do Republicans want to cut programs that help people but refuse to let the
George W. Bush "tax cuts for the rich" to expire?Warren
Buffet says they should expire. Why do people believe the Tea Party instead of a
well known very rich man?Why did the railroads cease rail passenger
service? Is it because free enterprise will do something ONLY if there is a big
Wow! Another Romney article=another Pagan remark.
@Shaun - if you think we can just bag our entire system on the spot, let
government just create free money out of nothing for every possible national
need, and that banks should either give away free money to people or operate as
government institutions for free loans, you are really in desperate need of
economics education. I'm sure even a Jr. High School course could set you
straight on some of your most fundamental economic delusions.
@LetsDebate. Banks create money when they loan money. It is called fractional
reserve lending. All the federal reserve does is increase bank reserves by
buying US treasury's. This allows banks to create more money out of thin air.If banks do not create money as you think then where does the so called
money come from? Its not depositors money because those are demand accounts.
Besides I have never had a bank manager tell me i can not have my money because
they lent it out to somebody else.Also a quick look at any bank's
balance sheet and income statement would show banks do create money.My entire point is our money system is flawed which causes us to have to pay
taxes. I am not uneducated, in fact I feel pretty good because I actually know
how our money system works.
I had a knee replacement in Canada. It took 18 months from the day of
application to the surgery. That is a long wait. SO much for socialized
I have, and have had, many aging relatives that I had to assist in caring for
and I am all too familiar with how Medicare works. By law, upon reaching age 65,
Medicare is the primary insurance whether it is desired or not. Many of these
relatives already had insurance coverage that they considered satisfactory and
were not only shocked to be forced to give this up, but how many fewer treatment
options were available under Medicare. This is even worse when a specialist is
needed, so many times care wasnt covered until as a last resort, off we went to
the ER. Then we got a massive bill from the hospital because little if any of
the care was covered. The government is the reason for out of control costs and
sorely needs to vacate the healthcare business.
@Shaun - yes, and if unicorns existed and we could find the end of the rainbow
for the pot of gold...You realize we're $15 million dollars in debt
right now, right? And, merely paying the debt on our national debt is a
tremendous drain on our economy. Your suggestion sounds like a
start-from-scratch idea, and a highly naive one at that. Since we can't start
from scratch, your simple idea has no practical value whatsoever.Also, banks don't create money, the Federal Reserve does. Also, if you loan
me $100, shouldn't I be doing something, such as creating and selling a product,
that returns more than $110 to me, thereby allowing me to pay back the principle
and interest? If I have no way to make more than the principle plus interest,
why am I borrowing money from you, and why are you lending me money? If I'm
borrowing $100 against next week's $200 paycheck, how am I having to borrow the
interest? What in the world are you talking about?You might want to
take an economics class. There are real-world reasons why simple solutions from
uneducated people don't successfully drive an economy.
@letsdebate. The solution is to have the government spend money into the economy
debt free and interest free.Why does a sovereign nation like the
United States ever need to borrow money? It can simply create the money it needs
to facilitate commerce. What would happen if the United States
didn't borrow money and didn't tax its citizens to build bridges or provide
services? What if it simply created the money and spent it into the economy?Money is just an idea to facilitate trade. Why do bankers have the right
to create money and charge interest on it? The bankers money system enriches
themselves at the expense of everyone. A better system is for the
government to spend money into the economy debt free and interest free. No taxes
and more freedom it sounds simple to me.
@LetsDebate. The solution is simple. Change our monetary system from a debt
based system to a system where money is introduced into the economy debt free
and interest free.Most people do not realize our money supply is
debt. The loans people get for cars, homes, credit cards, etc is created out of
thin air. Banks do not have money. Since our money supply is based
on debt, new money in the form of loans constantly has to be created so the
interest of older loans can be paid. For example if it was just you and me in
the economy and I was the bank and you need a loan for a 100 dollars at ten
percent interest then I can give you the loan. There is one problem where are
you going to get the ten dollars for the interest? You will have to borrow it.
The banks through the federal reserve act have built the best mouse
trap in the world. We will always have to borrow money they created out of thin
air for our economy to survive.
I'm all for balancing the budget, but killing AMTRAK and gutting educational
institutions like the Endowments for the Arts and the Corporation for Public
broad casting isn't the way to do it.Why is it that many times,
those in the GOP's answer to balance the budget is always to hurt things that
help educate the masses? Why does it feel like they never do like wise to their
own pet projects, like the military?
Mitt will trim 100 million from foreign aid...oh be still my beating heart.
Mitt is going to trim what equates to 3.5 days of foreign aid. Come
on Mr. Romney get serious, the financial situation is serious.
Good grief Mitt, what are you thinking? How can you ever hope to change things
if you start talking details now? Just pick a couple of words at random from my
last sentence for your theme and don't give any details whatever you do.
Icee-Maybe your responsibility should be to help your 91 year old
father with his medical decisions and paperwork. Don't rush to a conclusion
that no one would help the elderly, that is simply not true.Competition in the market would help a great deal. Right now people don't
have to "shop around". In fact most people have no idea how much
their doctor's visit, medical procedure or medicine costs. They just know they
don't have to pay for it if they have insurance.Drugs are the same
way. You think all pharmacies are the same. Not true. Try this yourself.
Call several different pharmacies in your area and compare prices. You will be
shocked to find the differnce. Walmart has 5 dollar perscriptions on a few
drugs, but the rest of their drugs, especially antibiotics, are 5-10 times more
expensive than say Costco. They get you in the door with the 5 dollar
perscription. But most people don't know because they have insurance and never
ask the cash price. Personal responsibility and "shopping around"
would do a lot to decrease price. Not the only thing we should do, but it would
l.cee | 12:18 a.m. Nov. 5, 2011your father would not be homeless if
he lived with you.Isn't that the real issue with social security and
medicare?children do not want to care for their own parents.They
want society and the government to do so.And then they want to swoop in
and collect their inheritance when the parent dies.many elderly people
have significant assetts: house, saving, ect. that could be used to pay the
medical cost.but instead of having to sale those things first before they
receive public assistance: aka medicare. they get to keep the assetts. which
are then passed on to the children.And before someone pipes in how they
paid taxes and are entitled: the only group that is entitled to free medical
care is veterans.no one has paid anywhere near enough into medicare to
justify the huge amounts that are later spent on them.the elderly need to
step up and pay a larger portion of the cost of their medical care.I am
fine helping those who do not have money or assetts to pay for it.
truthseeker-Please give your reference for "surgeons making
more and more". That is is an untrue statement. It is the hospitals that
are making more and more. The surgeons reimbursments are being cut. That is
why there is becoming a "lack" of Doctors in this country. Why would
you want to take out at least 250,000 dollars in student loans, go to school for
8-10 years after a bachelors degree, and run the risk of being sued at the drop
of a hat, only to not be reimbursed enough to run your office. Remember MD's
have overhead and office operating costs before they get to take home a
paycheck. If you had to wait 10 days to see an orthopedic surgeon
for your son's broken arm you simply didn't call around to see who was open. In
our office we have PA's and MD's working together. The average wait to see
someone with a broken arm is 1-3 days. I think your 10 days is a slight
exageration or you just wanted to see who you wanted to see, and yes you would
have to wait if you are that picky.
Income earned by surgeons of all types are among the fastest growing salaries in
the U.S. Re:TheRockJapan, France, Australia, Canada and other
countries have comparable cancer survival rates to the U. S. Sometimes survival
rates differ not because of the healthcare delivery system, but because of
different treatment approaches. People die in the U.S. due to lack of
access to Drs and Dentists. People in the U.S. have to wait for treatment
too. For example, my son had to wait 10 days before he could get into see an
orthopedist for a broken arm.Amtrak is used by a lot of people
traveling between New York, Philadelphia and D.C
If the voucher system was in effect today, I cannot picture my 91 year old dad
figuring out how to use his voucher. And if his medical bills go higher than
the voucher amount, then what? He is on a very limited income and would not be
able to pay for medical bills. Does he end up homeless paying for those ever
increasing medical costs?And just why do health costs keep rising
and rising rapidly? Because the companies can do what they want. There are no
measures to reign in those costs. The free market system doesn't hold costs
down through competition. Does Romney's plan do anything to cut
back the rising costs of health not just to the government coffers but to the
people paying their share? That's what we need in our leaders--a way to help
those paying the bills!
@Shaun - and yet, despite the simplicity of the solution, you've still left us
in the dark.Let's start here - do you think the solution lies more
with:1) Unleashing free market capitalism with lower taxes and less
regulation, or2) Increased taxation, government spending and financial
redistribution to stimulate spending and generate product demand.It's not as simple as each party blaming the other - each party has a
sincerely held, mutually opposing philosophy about economics. There are many
arguments to be made for either approach, as well as many criticisms. Neither
is "fairly simple" when you get into considering the right balance of
these two approaches, the details of implementation, and the known and
unintended consequences of either economic philosophy.Anyone who
claims the solution is simple really doesn't have a clue about his own level of
@Lets Debate. It was so nice of you to insinuate that I was dumb. Our nations
financial problems can be fixed fairly simply. I was simply pointing out that
both parties solution is to blame the other party and they are both in the
pockets of the banks.As long as our nations money supply is
controlled by banks and introduced by the banks we will always have financial
issues as a nation.Fail.
Don't worry about what Mitt wants to do. You have already been duped to the
tunes out of billions by Obama, Pelosi, and Reed. Obama will have the legacy of
the most corrupt president in history. Remember he promised to be open and
transparent and most everything has been behind closed doors with his crony
Pagan-A lot of doctors do take medicare, but they don't have to. I
work for knee replacement surgeons and their reimbursment has been cut so much
they are considering not taking medicare anymore. There are several of the best
surgeons across the country doing this. If you want the best MD's to do your
surgery, you pay cash and then get what reimbursment you can back from medicare.
Not a bad idea. You can shop for the cheapest MD, or the best, depending on
what your budget allows. Imagine that. A patient taking personal
responsibility. By the way. Knee replacements are about $40,000. The MD
makes about $1200 of that. Health care costs are too high! We have got to find
a way to make a competative market in the health care field. Right now the only
fields in health care that are decreasing in price are plastic surgery and lasix
eye surgery. That is because they are cash for service and patients shop
around. Imagine that. The free market at work!
Hey, settle down. This is Mitt Romney talking here. He'll change his mind 3 or 4
more times before the GoP Convention. Flip flop... Don't get excited yet.
A few years ago, I was paying Blue Cross $82 a month for Part D prescription
Medicare. It was due to jump to $92 the next year. Then I heard of a plan
endorsed by AARP with a monthly premium of ZERO. People at the meeting asked
how this could be. The answer was shocking.We were told that the
government already paid our monthly premium. We had paid for it all our lives
and now it was returning to us. The fees we had been paying were
"Administrative Fees." In English that means "Pure
Profit."For other seniors out there, I strongly suggest you get
online at AARP's website to learn about the Secure Horizons program from Select
Care. Open enrollment ends December 7. You will be glad you did.I
have been with them for four years and their service has been excellent. They
say they still earn a good profit by making their operation very efficient.
They also do not have a flock of stockholders or a CEO earning millions.I hope DN's censors will allow this to post.
About two years ago I was visiting Utah and had lunch with five other men; all
of us Medicare aged. My host and I were the only ones who had not had some joint
replaced to make life (read tennis, golf, and bowling) better. Between those
four men who had surgery there were four knee replacements, two shoulder
replacements, and two hip replacements. That is why Medicare costs are
sky-rocketing out of control.
" The USA needs someone who will break wind with their chest held
high." oh my! That's hilarious!
I will vote for the guy who has the guts to give us our medicine, even if it
tastes like crap! Mitt just won my vote today. I have had enough of the
pandering, spineless, push-overs that bow down to every whoosh of political
wind. The USA needs someone who will break wind with their chest held high.
"but another 1-2 terms of financial slavery is not something I look forward
to"Doug10: Then don't vote for Obama.
Obama inherited a tough economic situation. Then he (Obama) proceeded to make it
exponentially worse, and it will continue to get worse day by day until he is
OUT. He ran in '08 on "hope & change". Now he is running on
"I just need more time". What don't you bleeding heart
liberals not understand about, "we have no more money"?? Do you run
your own households by staying in denial, and writing checks that bounce?
The one thing we can not do is continue with the medicare program the way it is.
There simply is not enough money to fund it, and more baby boomers are retiring
each year.We can not buy everyone a "jazzy" who does not want to
walk?Why should we take money from young workers to buy grandpa viagra?do we really have $1 million dollars to keep someone alive for one more
month?Why should we ask society to pay for medical cost, if the patient
has large and significant assets that could be sold?As more people come
into the system, the system has to start spending less per person, or the
program will not exist at all.
Mitt is a great candidate but he has math issues.By treating
everyone fairly (excepting his old employees) he will friendlize everyone in the
country. The party system will take a backseat as they find out what a great
guy he is. Both parties will allow him to gut Obamacare even though it will add
to the debt.He has left big money out of his budget balancing act.
He can easily balance the budget on the backs of the seniors.The
military that overspends and has for decades is void of Romneycuts. The cost
over runs in the military are like the GM of old only on steroids. If there is
a problem throw more money at it, listen to the big money folks who want more
contracts and they want to increase the size of the military, sadly so does
Mitt.Big contracts big money, balance the budget on the backs of the
elderly.I would vote for Mitt in a minute if he would embrace the
economics of Ron Paul, but another 1-2 terms of financial slavery is not
something I look forward to.
@Shaun - "Our money problems is a simply fix..."I'm sorry
to break the news to you, but our money problems are even more complicated than
the English language, and based on your slaughter of that, I have great doubts
that you have some "simply fix" that would correct our national
financial crisis. As Buzzards said above, at least Romney is proposing
something. I daresay not a single one of the Romney detractors here could
graduate from Harvard with both an MBA and a Juris Doctorate, or make Bain
Capital profitable, or turn a profit on an Olympics event, or govern the
financial turnaround of any state of this union.But clearly, after
having the Midas touch with everything he leads, all of a sudden he now can't
think his way out of a coin purse. And, you all are so much better qualified,
and have much more intelligent ideas than someone who could accomplish all that
Romney has done.
Rock...there is a reason for that may procedures in a day...the more he
performs, the more he can bill...just like a lawyer it all about maximizing
billable hours or in this case billable procedures. It does not make the
medicine better or worse, in fact I would not want to be at the patient at the
end of his long day...I would volunteer to be first and on a Monday, thank you
very much. By the way in terms of "proving your case"
neither does one example...for all we know it could be isolated, it is
undocumented or could be a fabrication...it cannot be refuted because it is part
of no real study, not published, ..it is an antidotal and maybe heresay...if medicare equals no care as you so brazenly assert why then are Ranch
Hand's statistics about life expectancy lengthening under Medicare than under
private insurance. Splain that one Lucy!
'Most doctors will not treat medicare patients. (Medicare = No Care)' - The Rock
| 1:07 p.m. Nov. 4, 2011 I work in an Organ Tranpslant center in
Utah. I am required to go over the patient's insurance
information. Over 90% of the records I am required to review are
funded by medicare. I will now ask who the source is, for your
information. I think it's ironic that Romney is now against
Medicare.... when he supported healthcare reform in MA.
As for healthcare: Romney care support was up 10% to 63% in
Massachusetts. -The Boston Globe by Kay Lazar - 06/05/11
Romney is not to bright. Our money problems is a simply fix but neither
Democrats or Republicans want to do anything about it because they will lose
their biggest donors. The Banks.
There is fraud in any insurance program that exists. People go to prison every
day for scamming Aetna, Blue Cross/Blue Shield, Cigna, etc. Privatizing
medicare will not get rid of fraud. It will get rid of Medicare. Ask people
who are currently on medicare why they don't just get rid of it and buy private
insurance. They can't afford to. And if the government is going to pay private
companies with vouchers, it will lead to even more fraud and corruption. This
isn't a plan to reform medicare. It is a plan to destroy it. And if we can't
afford to take care of our elderly, we certainly can't afford another $100
billion to upgrade our current nuclear arsenal.
Health care, especially for seniors, is on an unsustainable path. At least
Romney is proposing SOMETHING. Because the two other options are Greece and/or
Europe level taxation. The latter is a political non-starter, the first is
scary beyond comprehension.I have this sneaky suspicion that if the
dollars avaiable for health care suddenly became finite, insurance companies
would actually find a way to make them go further. And yes, it would mean that
maybe Grandma couldn't get her knees replaced on the government dime, but again,
what are the alternatives?
See ya in La Jolla, Mitt,I do believe you just lost a great deal of your
Stuff like this will cause romney the election. He is taking a needed social
program and just creating a welfare state within the capital system. He is not a
very consistent person and that will be his downfall.
There are a lot of comments bashing Romney's views on making medicare private.
I don't know if I am totally hooked yet, but I must ask what would you people do
to bring down the cost, and the fraud that goes on with medicare?
@The Rock"Countries with socialized medicine (other western
countries) have waiting lists that are months long. "I had to
wait 2 months for an appointment to see a specialist for a condition that needed
surgery in this nation.@fred44"If these politicians don't
realize that vouchers are in effect a cut in health benefits, then they are
dumber than I think they are which is almost not possible. They use vouchers,
because they lack the courage to use the word CUT, which is what they really
want and are really doing with vouchers. "The politicians
realize it, that's why they use vouchers instead of the word cut. It's up to the
people to pay attention, but even the tea party insists that polticians should
"get their gov't hands off my medicare".I remember when
Democrats picked up a seat in the house in New York that was so conservative it
voted for Paladino despite Paladino losing by about 15-20 points statewide.
Kathy Hochul (D) ran primarily on attacking the Paul Ryan medicare vouchers.
Sixteen trillion dollar debt? Government control ain't cutting it!That's five hundred thousand dollars per second for a whole year. Thank you
government, for high medical costs.
As a Democrat, I love the idea of Romney getting behind this voucher thing on
medicare. The idea is hated so much that a Democrat won a Republican district in
New York that is so far to the right it actually voted for Paladino by running
on medicare. The only sad thing is knowing that three weeks from now Romney will
have a different position on the matter.
Mitts,Got to move his way over to the tea party or his candidacy is
over. Nice try with the voucher idea of Ryan's. If these politicians don't
realize that vouchers are in effect a cut in health benefits, then they are
dumber than I think they are which is almost not possible. They use vouchers,
because they lack the courage to use the word CUT, which is what they really
want and are really doing with vouchers. I was also impressed to see the list
of places he is going to cut, again right out of the tea party playbook. I was
trying to find the cut in the taxpayer subsidies for the oil companies and I
missed that. I am sure it is in the fine print of the plan though. After
reading this it still amazes me that republicans can say they are for the middle
class with a straight face, and what is even more amazing is that anyone
These days are indeed the last days when even the "very elete are
deceived". Freedom of Religion in this country was one of the core values
of the immigrants when they came to this new land. One of the main core values
of politicians for the last ten years has be to pretend to believe in some
religion, but in fact do not follow any but put in attendance once in a blue
moon. Lose what ever moral values you once were taught as they have NO place in
current day life. Mitt Romney is wealthy so he does not need medicare nor does
his family. His neighbors are definitely not his concern. So privatize every
thing and outsource all jobs to China so all America is on the streets begging
for everything and America goes to China and Russia and we all lose all.
Congratulations Republicans, you are truely for communism in all aspects. This
will not get printed as it is against DN good buddies.
@ RanchHandFigures don't lie but lyers sure do figure, as the saying
goes...I have a friend who is a world renowned ophthalmologist
(former head resident at the Mayo Clinic). He visited an eye clinic in London
and discovered that they start work at 9:00 AM (my friend starts at 7:00 AM) the
three surgeons performed a total of three procedures before lunch, came back and
performed two more after lunch and were on the golf course by 3:00 PM. Three eye
surgeons performed a total of five surgeries in one day. My friend performs
between 32 and 35 surgeries each Tuesday by himself. There are two other
surgeons on staff who also perform a similar number.The doctors in
London are on salary and get paid the same regardless of how many surgeries the
do.Countries with socialized medicine (other western countries) have
waiting lists that are months long. In some countries you have to bribe the
doctors to get in. You could die (and many do) waiting for chemo.Most doctors will not treat medicare patients. (Medicare = No Care)Sorry but the entire argument fails to hold water.
If privatizing medicare was a viable option... why haven't we done
it before...? *'Wellpoint Drops Coverage For Some Women With Breast
Cancer' - By Mary Ellen Egan - Forbes Magazine - 04/23/10
'Yesterday, an investigation by Reuters revealed that Wellpoint routinely drops
coverage of women with breast cancer. According to the report, Wellpoint used a
computer algorithm that automatically targeted...' Because we have
example, after example that business, typically, do NOT answer to the people. The answer, to the board. Which is why, I support my
So, Romney wants to throw medicare recipients into the shark tank (insurance
market) with "vouchers".Statistics show that the life
expectancy in the US is lower in all groups on Private Insurance, compared to
other Western countries, UNTIL they reach an age to be eligible for Medicare, at
which point, the life expectancy and health stats meet those of other
countries.Summary: You have a lower life expectancy on Private
Insurance than Medicare.Good job, Mitt. You're suggesting a means
of reducing the Senior population. I'm completely surprised you haven't added
Soylent Green into your plan as a means to reduce the cost of feeding those on
Welfare and Food Stamps too.