Comments about ‘At BYU, Pres. Thomas Monson relates how Harvard's Clayton Christensen got Book of Mormon testimony’

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Published: Wednesday, Nov. 2 2011 9:42 a.m. MDT

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BYU Girl
West Valley City, UT

President Thomas S. Monson is a true prophet of God. The Book of Mormon is another testament that Jesus is the Christ, for I feel that warm spirit testify to me each night as I read this true book of scripture. Joseph Smith was an instrument in restoring the true gospel of Jesus Christ. So glad I have the gospel in my life. Those who doubt, haven't read it with a sincere heart. Take the Book of Mormon challenge!!!

VocalLocal
Salt Lake, UT

This was a very nice story to share and I enjoy learning of other's spiritual experiences. However, I think it is a testament to how if you want a divine manifestation badly enough you will get one and the most reasonable explanation for those experiences is that they are manufactured by the human brain.

rogerdpack2
Orem, UT

wow. shivers up my spine :)

MapleDon
Springville, UT

What is the reason for the obsession with Clayton Christensen? My ward's sacrament mtg two weeks ago was devoted to adoration of Bro Christensen. It was as if the speakers had met the Messiah himself.

And I just got notice from the ward I'm assigned to that all ward council members were to read an article by Bro Christensen.

We LDS have a tendency to worship individuals. I believe it's a bad habit.

I think at times we ought to be reminded that the Church is Christ's. Further, it might be a good reminder to follow Nephi's declaration: "And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins." (2 Nephi 25:26)

Bill in Nebraska
Maryville, MO

To MapleDon: I think sometimes we misunderstand the intentions of our Bishop and those who have been assigned to those positions. We don't worship anyone except Jesus Christ. I've been assigned at times to talk on specific talks by General Authorities and others. Why do you think that is? It isn't that we worship them but what they are saying. We need to understand that it is the same as each of us standing up and bearing our testimonies. It all is the same. Look beyond the meaning and stop trying to read between the lines. Many times I've learned something that I didn't know originally from those talks or what a particular person stated. Also, when a Bishop gives us an assignment he does so for a reason. Maybe asking him why would be good for the soul. Prayer is always a good answer and asking why and then doing the answer comes more freely.

His story is not unlike others in the Church and after reading what he has to say maybe that will answer many of your questions. This is especially true of what Nephi said. After all he reflected on the prophets and his father.

justaguy
Out There in, WI

@Vocal Local

Not so. Because the human body is the mechanism of the spirit as science learns more and more about how the body works it is easy to say that a spiritual experience is manufactured in the brain. But the body, including brain chemistry, is only the mechanism through which the spirit is experienced. It would be a mistake to conclude Christensen or anyone else wanted it so bad he somehow created the confirmation he was looking for. Or that anyone experiencing a manifestation of the spirit only imagined it in their mind. Sure, some are the result of that kind of thing but it would be wrong to sumarily dismiss them all as that. That simply is not the case.

deseret pete
robertson, Wy

It's pretty difficult for those who have not experienced the promptings of the Spirit to understand those who have and actually tend to discredit those individuals.I have felt that Spirit many times some of which have come unexpectadely,but certainly welcome.Those who seek the truth must authorize the Spirit to teach them by having a real desire to know truth and be willing to accept it. Truth does not come easily, or without great effot on the part of the learner.As the Book of Mormon states: "With real intent,Having faith in Christ'.Otherwise spiritual things seem like foolishness to them.Only those who have felt that witness of the Spirit can really know what it is like.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@BYU Girl

"Those who doubt, haven't read it with a sincere heart. "

A word of advice to LDS members from someone who converted to and later left the church... never use this phrase, it's terribly insulting.

The Vanka
Provo, UT

"He told God how desperate he was to find out if this was a true book, and he told Him that if He would reveal to him that it was true, then he intended to dedicate his life to building this kingdom. And he told God that if it wasn't true he needed to know that for certain, too, because then he would dedicate his life to finding out what was true."

This is almost verbatim how I would describe what I did for YEARS!

And I got nothing.

When I tell LDS people this, what do they say?

Just what @BYU Girl said:

"Those who doubt, haven't read it with a sincere heart".

And you know my heart HOW?

atl134 is almost right about such statements being "terribly insulting". I find such statement to be even WORSE than terribly insulting!

And I will continue to fight against such unrighteous judgment and the wholesale condemnation of those of us who DID try Moroni's promise - repeatedly! - and got nothing!

We are NOT insincere.
We are NOT unworthy.
We are NOT lacking in "real intent".
We are NOT lesser creatures in god's eyes.
We are NOT inferior to you!

danby
SOUTH SALT LAKE, UT

Wait a moment.. on wikipedia I found out Mr Christensen attended Oxford in 1977, thus well AFTER his mission in Korea! Does it mean..he went on his mission because he "trusted" his parents? No personal testimony of the BoM? Today he would be very much discouraged to embark on a mission. I can not understand why this case is being taken as an example. I am confused.

Brahmabull
sandy, ut

Atl134 - unfortunately if you do not agree with LDS teachings people want to say that you have not acted sincerely, or that you simply ignored the answer. If you took the Book of Mormon challenge and didn't get the "right" answer then you did it wrong. I know that train of thought doesn't make sense to you or I, but some LDS like to take shots or stabs at people who don't believe. The sad thing is that LDS claim to know that it is the ONLY true church, and the the rest of the 99.9 percent of the world is wrong for not believing. The .001 percent of the earths population that is mormon is right. The catholics also know that they are right. So do the muslims. So do the methodists. They have all had spiritual experiences that have led them to believe as such. So how come there can be so much confusion? Please don't take shots from people like BYU girl seriously, as most people who would say that have no idea about their church's history and are very niave.

Tom in CA
Vallejo, CA

"We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, to worship how, where, or what they may." Joseph Smith - Articles of Faith.

A declaration of tolerance. Period - end of story.

Anthracite
Salt Lake City, UT

I can only speak for myself, but I also denounce BYU Girl's comment. It's not appropriate to tell people why they didn't get an answer (and Vocal Local, same goes for you regarding those who say they did get an answer). You don't know people's hearts, minds and experiences.

I believe I did get an answer, but again, I can only speak for myself. And I appreciate atl134, Vanka and Brahmabull for pointing this out.

Fellow Mormons, these people are not attacking the teachings of the Church. They are condemning a cultural attitude that should go away. Let's be kind and understanding.

Timp
South Jordan, UT

ha ha.. love how Clayton Christenson has become a mormon celebrity..

full disclosure
Providence, UT

This subject is being broached not just by Thomas Monson but also ward councils because many people are leaving the church over the Book of Mormon, The Book of Abraham. Polygamy, church history etc.
I went to see my Stake President a few months back concerning a lot of the above, and he sent me home with the Clayton Christensen story that Thomas Monson tells. This is the churches defense. Find someone super intelligent and tell people to pray and people will go back to believing again.

sharrona
layton, UT

@ Bill in Nebraska; We don't worship anyone except Jesus Christ,
A popular song sung by Mormons in conference is "Praise to the Man" written by W.W. Phelps. I used to sing this song.

every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are --Journal of Discourses 7:289).Brigham Young

Michigander
Westland, MI

@Vanka: You have received an answer! And that answer is that the Utah LDS Church are NOT the true representatives of the BOM. The only church on the face of the earth that correctly interprets ALL of the BOM has its international headquarters in Monongahela, Pennsylvania. The greatest fallacy of praying about the BOM has always been that accepting the BOM means accepting the Utah LDS Church. This has not been true since 1845.

sharrona
layton, UT

@Bill in Nebraska; We don't worship anyone except Jesus Christ,
Brigham Young said, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are --Journal of Discourses 7:289).

A popular song sung by Mormons in conference is "Praise to the Man" written by W.W. Phelps. I used to sing this song.

JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt
Beverly Hills, CA

I chose to join the CHurch and it was thorough thought and prayer that I came to this decision. I respect those who do not believe what I do. Believe me, I have been there, I have been on the other side and I do my utmost to help spread what I have found but not shove it in the faces of those who do not want to hear it. Everybody needs to chill out, to each his own.

the truth
Holladay, UT

RE: atl134
RE: Vanka
RE: Brahmabull

It is not enough to be sincere,
it is not enough to have real intent,

but you MUST have Faith in Christ, in fact, it is the most important of the three, a foundational principle.

NO one here is judging, they simply have a true desire to help you get that testimony.

People talk about sincerity and intent, but forget the requirement of faith in Christ.

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