Comments about ‘Liquor suit seeks to muzzle LDS Church’

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Published: Wednesday, Nov. 2 2011 7:50 a.m. MDT

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CougarBlue
Heber City, UT

DeltaFoxtrot and ouisc what planet are you living on? 62% of this state is LDS. They are speaking for the majority of the people in this state. I would daresay that the Catholics are for limiting alcohol also, as I would assume the Baptismts, the Lutherans, etc. Are you ignorant of the rights of people or organizations to lobby for thing? Are you totally ignorant of the facts behind alcoholic use? Do you advocate that more alcohol should be available so we can have more drunks driving and more families being put through the horrors of alcoholic parents or their children becoming alcoholics. This lawsuit should be thrown and the group bringing it should be billed for any court costs for frivolous lawsuits. To say that a group should not be afforded their constitutional rights is ludicrous and undemocratic.

No where in our constitution does it say separation of Church and state. That was the wording in a Supreme Court members opinion and is not fact, not is it law. You and other of your stance need to study the constitution before you make such silly irrational statements.

CougarBlue
Heber City, UT

I feel we should quit eating at restaurants that belong to this organization and let them know how we feel about their ridiculous lawsuit. That would be as insane as what this group is trying accomplish. Insanity breeds insanity.

Those that claim that we have stupid rules need to study facts before spouting off.

aumacoma
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

Ya know, I just can't see how so many faithful don't seem to grasp the concept of separtion of church and state when the whole point is to keep government from dictating how to worship or what to believe. This is to the benefit of all religions. Commonsense and logic tells you that it is also just as logical, and benficial to ALL of us, to not have religion dictate to government. Can you say 'Middle East'? We are first and foremost Americans. Country first. Not religion first. That would be a Theocracy, not a Democracy. I don't seem to ever have seen any government entity dictating to any religious group what they can choose to believe or prevent them from doing so. Nothing or no one can make anyone change their beliefs except a personal evolution. Yet the faithful seem to think that their religious freedom is being taken away because they can't dictate to government to pass laws on what to believe or how to worship. Completely illogical.

Lane Myer
Salt Lake City, UT

Cougar Blue: "No where in our constitution does it say separation of Church and state. That was the wording in a Supreme Court members opinion and is not fact, not is it law. You and other of your stance need to study the constitution before you make such silly irrational statements. "

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Actually, YOU need to read about it. It was written by Thomas Jefferson when he explained the first amendment.

(BTW, who was the instigator behind the first ten amendments to the constitution, or bill of rights? Go find out.)

Lane Myer
Salt Lake City, UT

Article 1 Section 4 (of the Utah State Constitution):

"... There shall be no union of Church and State, nor shall any church dominate the State or interfere with its functions..."

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The constitution of Utah is much stronger than the US constitution as regards to the separation of church and state.

Do you think that the control of liquor is a state function? Does the church have a right to interfere with that function per our state constitution?

I say no.

BobP
Port Alice, B.C.

The LDS people settled in the Salt Lake Valley when it was still part of Mexico. They irrigated it, farmed it and built it up. The fought the Utah war. To this day they are the majority of the population.

It's ours, we built it and we still own most it. If the booze lobby doesn't like it let them whine, and ignore them.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'@ Pagan 12:29am

I was waiting for you to make this a gay marriage debate.' - georgeman | 9:18 a.m. Nov. 2, 2011

And since I have not, what does that make you look like?

The LDS church has every right to dictate to it's followers.

I am not a member of the LDS church.

Please, stay out of my life.

I am over 21, I have served in the US military, and I don't think a religion I do not belong too should have a say over what I do with my life.

The facts, do not support the doctorine.

*'Utah DUI arrests DECLINE despite looser liquor law' - By BROCK VERGAKIS - AP - Published by SL Tribune - 10/11/10

'Opening Utahs bars to the public didnt result in an increase in drunk driving arrests.'

And moderator,

I was not the one who resorted to directed personal attacks instead of the story.

Kami
Bountiful, Utah

CougarBlue | 10:11 a.m. Nov. 2, 2011
Heber City, UT
DeltaFoxtrot and ouisc what planet are you living on? 62% of this state is LDS. They are speaking for the majority of the people in this state.

@CougarBlue. That statistic includes inactives and you should well know about the high percentage of inactives in this State, many of whom do not agree with the church's position on many issues. So .. I think it is reasonable to state that less than 50% of the people in this State are active LDS.

Evets
Eagle Mountain, UT

For a long time I was somewhat sympathetic to the Utah Hospitality Association's quest to allow more liquer licenses because I wanted businesses to be free to grow and prosper with minimal government interference. With this attempt to muzzle the LDS church on liquer laws I have the feeling that the Association is getting out of hand. Therefore, I am going to encourage my representatives to go slow on allowing any expansion of liquer licenses.

Am I being reasonable? Probably not! BUT I don't like the Associations attitude or the way it wants to "play ball". UHA don't ever try to limit my speech or anyone elses speach.

ksampow
Farr West, Utah

@ClarkKent: Even if tthe percentage of active LDS members is or will be below 50%, it is still more than any other group in the state. To ignore the beliefs of a large portion of the population would be irresponsible. And, by the way, many who are not LDS choose to live in Utah for the family-friendly environment and want to keep it that way.

Richie
Saint George, UT

This is all about greed. The tavern owners don't care what happens to the people. A very good friend of mine was hit by a drunken driver and killed. No matter how hard his wife tried to keep the family together she had real problems with the children. The people that fed the other driver booze didn't step forward to help the family. The LDS church did render assistance. A few years before that I was a heavy drinker at times and to this day I cannot understand why I never got a ticket for DUI and I never hit anyone. Someone was watching over me.

firstamendment
Lehi, UT

Seems some are saying: "cant legislate morality, can't tell us what to smoke, not to hit, who to sleep with or marry (how many, what age, what gender), or how fast to drive, or not to steal, lie, or murder (ten commandments are religious, so religious persons cant speak on this, violates our right of separation) but...since we're not religious!! Wellll ; ) we CAN tell you, who to marry and to tax Churches (but Churches cant buy public property) and you may scream hatred at Mormons and disrupt weddings on Temple square but Mormons cant speak freely on issues, or even read from pioneer journals on the Mormon trail (because the journals dont contain the sanitized Agnostic version of history); and no crosses for public servants (Arlington cemetery next?)actually, religious people should stop speaking entirely and let us get on with the 'important issues' (like? : ) : ))...pipe down or we'll tax you more (take provisions you give to the poor and donate to foreign banks, CEO bonuses, and our big controlling government (so they can use it for just causes, such as promoting homosexuality, etc)) it's OUR right, right?"

Because we reject the Founders' Christian principles...: ): )

justaguy
Out There in, WI

Sounds like the UHA is having a hard time accepting that they are not the only pebble on the beach. They are looking for advantage in the market place by trying to stifle a legitimate player in the process. I fully understand that they may feel their business is hampered by the particular public that makes up their market place. But seeking unfair advantage by excluding a rightful player is not the answer. Are they going to seek to single out and exclude every member of the public that opposes drinking? As has been pointed out, the church is not the only ones in opposition. This in no way is a seperation of church and state issue. Underhanded business practices is what this smacks of. I hope this effort gets laughed out of court. That's what it deserves.

raybies
Layton, UT

I don't drink, never have, but I've had to pay quite a bit to support the habit in others. Whether it's due to the unsightly beer canisters and bottles that one can find all over the "wild" outdoors from inebriated hikers who have no qualms about littering, or from the busted out windshield that I once discovered on my own car, because some kids were drinking in a parking lot and decided to throw their containers at my car, I would say the more we can limit and enforce responsible drinking the better.

The problem with those entangled in the misuse of this legal drug is that the consequences come with a high price: Abuse, drunk driving, promiscuity due to the weakening of sensible inhibitions, and just the wanton disregard for civic decency, broken homes... we'd be best suited to avoid it altogether.

Joggle
Clearfield, UT

@BobP

Perhaps Utah via the LDS Church should secede from the U.S. That way they can have the theocracy they seem to prefer in this state and control everything. However, Utah wanted to receive the benefits the federal government has to offer so it gave up the right to be a theocracy and is instead a democratic republic. Perhaps Utah should isolate itself from the rest of the U.S., but that would mean giving up federal government perks, huh? The LDS church may be dominant, but it doesn't represent all the people. Unfortunately, many people's voices get drowned out here because of the power and influence the church wields and because its practically impossible to separate the Church from the State even when the state constitution says it must. Considering the state constitution says there should be a separation of Church and State....I think this association has good reason and standing to pursue this. Tough or stupid liquor laws only give the church and its members a false feeling they are preventing something when in actuality it changes nothing.

Joan Watson
TWIN FALLS, ID

One must hope that the time never comes when religious denominations "butt out" or their good influence nuetered and their advise muzzled.

georgeman
Kearns, UT

Pagan 12:29 AM

...If I am not a member of the LDS church...
why is my marriage a 'moral' issue to someone who is not in said, marriage?

You did make it an issue!

I appreciate the diversity you bring, I respect that you have a different view than I. I applaud your service to this country.

The LDS Church is not trying to say what you have to do with your life. They are merely taking a stance on issues that they have strong beliefs about. No different than anyone else who takes a stance about their own beliefs.

Every church in this country has that right, every citizen in this country has that right.

This is also not a case of separation of church & state as others are saying.

No laws are being run through church leaders before being passed, that is just not happening. Legislators may be influenced as by any other lobbyist, but the stamp of approval does not come from the LDS Church before a law is enacted. The majority community values are being expressed in the laws, there is a difference.

skeptic
Phoenix, AZ

On the table or under the table, the church will have a strong voice in this matter.

Trooper55
Williams, AZ

It seems to me that the churches in Utah have been getting involed in more issues that they shouldn't be. I believe that they need to keep to the business of spreading the world of the Lord and less in the politic. If they keep getting involed in some isssues, then they should be held accountable.

JP71
Ogden, UT

Lets go to Rome and complain about the Catholic influence, or to the south and complain about the Baptist influence, or Saudi Arabia and the Muslim influence. If you want to drink go live in Wyoming or Nevada. They will let you drink yourself to death if you want too. But dont complain about the Mormon influence in the Mormon capital of the world.

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