Re:MikeRichardsYou are making a lot of assumptions about OWS protestors
based on what? According to a survey of Zucotti Park protesters by the
Baruch College School of Public Affairs published on October 19, of 1,619 web
respondents, 1/3 were older than 35, half were employed full-time, 13% were
unemployed and 13% earned over $75,000. 27.3% of the respondents called
themselves Democrats, 2.4% called themselves Republicans, while the rest, 70%,
called themselves independents.On Oct. 10 and 11, the polling firm
Penn, Schoen & Berland interviewed nearly 200 protesters. Half (52%) have
participated in a political movement before, 98% would support civil
disobedience to achieve their goals, and 31% would support violence to advance
their agenda. Most are employed; 15% are unemployed.
re: Dart,Have the OWS protesters actually got where they are based
on "merit"? Have any of them "earned" the right to lecture
anyone else on what constitutes the misuse of "wealth"? Have they
paid all of their student loans, or are they demanding that you and I pay those
bills for them? Have they prepared themselves for the workforce, or are they
demanding a job, regardless of ability that pays them a comfortable living,
without regard to the value of that job to society? We should all
be outraged. We should be outraged that people would camp in OUR public parks
and demand that WE pay their way through life because THEY think that someone
else who works hard should be penalized for being successful.We
should be outraged that our President is preaching class warfare and class envy
when he should be uniting the people. We should be outraged that
people would fall for anyone preaching "coveting" their neighbors'
possessions.It was wrong when Moses taught us. It was wrong when
Christ taught us. What makes it "right" today?
I AGREE that OWS is about people manipulating the system to get rich through
illicit means and the lack of oversight and punishment for these people.Utah "MUST-STOP" importing illegals. "Greed vs. their
ambition"There are ways to reduce federal health spending
without cutting short grandma's life. In addition to expanding Medicaid, and
contrary to the president's promise, the new law allocates billions of dollars
to expand services largely for illegal immigrants, including $11 billion for
community health centers serving those ineligible for Medicaid. Why should
grandma's care be cut to free up resources for lawbreakers?. Among those
calling for less care for seniors is H. Gilbert Welch of Dartmouth Medical
College. "If you were hoping to play the "death panel" card,
now's your chance," Welch says to his critics. "But don't play it and
then pretend you care about the budget." That brazen statement, pitting
grandma's well-being against the nation's fiscal health is a false choice.
Future federal healthcare spending can be significantly reduced by repealing the
expansion of Medicaid and the billions poured into medical and interpreter
services for illegal immigrants under the Obama health law before these
provisions go into effect. MY TRUTHFUL VIEWS.
OWS is about ill-gotten gains. No one wants to limit ambition or punish those
that have earned their pay by merit. OWS is about people manipulating the
system to get rich through illicit means and the lack of oversight and
punishment for these people. It is about Enron, not Huntsman or Buffett. When
you have Wall Street firms putting together a financial product, selling it and
then literally betting on its failure in the marketplace, that is where the
outrage comes from. All we need is old fashioned fiduciary responsibility with
transparency. Earn your money, you keep it. Steal it and you go to jail.
Which is worse, envy or greed? Few people will every "profit" from
"greed", but many people are listening to Mr. Obama as he preaches his
gospel of class envy, class warfaree and of coveting the riches of others.Few of us will ever have the opportunity to choose where to
"bestow" our wealth. We are too busy trying to pay the normal bills
of life. We feed our families. We provide for them as best we are able, but,
some divert their attention to the wealth of others. Some would stick their
noses into the bank accounts of others. Some would tell others what they should
do with the money that they have earned.Fine. If that's the way you
want to be, let ME decide for YOU how YOU will spend YOUR money.
KM: I wholeheartedly agree that some people should stay out of
other people's business. I wish the wealthy would stay out of my business.
They have a lot more influence on tax and regulatory policy than I do, and the
result over the last 30 years is that the income of the top 1% has risen 275%,
while the income of the rest of America has risen only 40%. "The audacity
of some people who think they have a right to anothers earned wealth"
applies more to the wealthy who have engineered this redistribution of
wealth--my wealth--into their hands. I doubt I have done anything to reverse
that flow of money. Frankly, I have sufficient for my needs, and I don't want
their money.I admire Jon Huntsman Sr. for a lot of things, but I am
reminded of how he made his billions every time I go to a restaurant and get
take-out food packed in one of Huntsman Chemical's styrofoam clam shell
containers, of which billions now occupy our land-fills. I
appreciate that you want to use any excuse to defend the wealthy, but next time
stay on topic, please.
Thank you for all your "Recommend" votes.I told you all, I
would tell you all the truth's.I didn't say you would like them or
even the truth in them.But the truth shall never be covered up.Not even by a DN moderator.With their own Greed to hide
anything one would say about their DN icon's of wannabe president hopefuls, or
any Utah law maker, vs. their ambition to get them elected, because of the
letter "R", after there name, for political faviors later on down the
road, and, for them to ignore the will of the people.Enjoy more of
my truth's.While you can still get them, that is.Have a
nice day now.I know, I will.
Greed vs. RINO/Wall Street ambition's. House Reform and Government Oversight
Committee Chairman Darrell Issa has questioned the need for the Energy
Departments clean energy efforts while seeking a loan from the program for a
home-state electric car company. Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa, an outspoken critic
of the stimulus and a champion of fiscal discipline, wrote letters seeking
stimulus money and took credit with his constituents. Enzis son is working as a
consultant on a part of the related project that benefitted from government
money. The K Street Project is a project by the Republican Party to pressure
Washington lobbying firms to hire Republicans in top positions, and to reward
loyal GOP lobbyists with access to influential officials. It was launched in
1995, by Republican strategist Grover Norquist and House majority leader Tom
DeLay (now in prison doing 140 years). DeLay of the House, Rick Santorum of the
Senate, and Grover Norquist took this opportunity to expand the K Street Project
by pressuring major lobbying firms to hire only Republicans in any new or open
CEO positions. "OUR" economy is being tugged between the powerful
downward force of the Koch Brother's. OWS, "tax the
crumudeonMaybe some people should stay out of other peoples
business. The audacity of some people who think they have a right to anothers
earned wealth.Now, lets listen to our dear leader as he continues to spew
class warfare rhetoric to divide a nation.
One persons greed is another persons ambition. Your concept is wonderful until
it comes to the details. Would you advocate legislation with its own unintended
@ just1voice:You are not just 1 voice. Thank you for your insight.
Ambition is the child of greed. And the mother of greed is the basic drive of
all life to survive.It is present in all creatures and all men and
women. Though it may be mitigated in some be other forces it is still there.
It is not something evil and bad, it is just life. And like other things in
life, it needs to be controlled in order to receive the full benefit.
I agree with C. Douglas Swenson statement that society should have at it, as OWS
does, with CEOs and politicians who simply line their pockets and egos with
undue rewards. "A Taste For Pork." Should they be a Vegan also, like
the middle-class has to be while they toss us under the bus more?. Rep. Ron
Paul, R-Texas, seeking tax dollars for his district from some of the very
programs he criticizes. Rick Perry, accepting more than $2 billion from the
stimulus for his state. Michele Bachmann, sought stimulus money for
transportation projects in her district while criticizing the stimulus as
wasteful. John Boehner, pressuring the administration for a clean energy loan
guarantee for a uranium project in his home state of Ohio, among other requests
for special treatment for specific companies. House Energy and Commerce
Committee Chairman Fred Upton sought a loan guarantee for a Russian-backed
Michigan company from the same program he is investigating as part of the
Solyndra scandal. The 4th form of Government is K Street that is a major
thoroughfare in the United States capital of Washington, D.C. known as a center
for numerous think tanks, lobbyists, and advocacy groups.
The problem we face today isn't so much about wealth as it is about the power
that wealth buys. We, like many other Americans, have worked and saved, played
by the rules, and were fortunate to have grown up in a solidly middle class
neighborhood with an intact families. We've been saving for retirement and
college. But in 2008, the economy crashed, setting us back at least 3 yrs in
our goals, which wont be recovered. But once again, we've been lucky. We
didn't lose our jobs, or our house (that we bought in 2006). Many have not been
so lucky.The gambling that went on with large banks and Wall Street
continues. Those responsible don't get it. They are blind to the damage they
did but mostly they simply don't care. And the ignorant think it is about
coveting when, for many, it is simply about survival.
Meanwhile, the former CEO of United Health Group has flown off to his private
island with nearly $1 billion grabbed from backdated stock options. Clearly in
violation of the law, this guy paid a "fine" of about $100 million and
carried the rest laughing to the bank. This is what people like me are
protesting, not guys like Huntsman. Viva OWS.
D&C 56:16-1716 Wo unto you rich men, that will not give your substance
to the poor, for your riches will canker your souls; and this shall be your
lamentation in the day of visitation, and of judgment, and of indignation: The
harvest is past, the summer is ended, and my soul is not saved!17 Wo
unto you poor men, whose hearts are not broken, whose spirits are not contrite,
and whose bellies are not satisfied, and whose hands are not stayed from laying
hold upon other mens goods, whose eyes are full of greediness, and who will not
labor with your own hands!Greed knows no income level, lets just
remember where it comes from, and what we should be doing with whatever we have
been blessed with.
Why do so many worry about what others have accumulated? I have what I have
because I worked for it. I don't care about being rich. That won't make me
happy. I have my family and I have time to spend with them. I believe that the
best things in life aren't things. The American Dream is that you
can start with nothing and work up from there. I may never have enough money
that I don't have to worry about bills, but I can still be happy.If
you feel like you don't have "enough," get out and do something about
it. I don't mean camp in the park and hold up cardboard signs. I mean do
something to change YOUR circumstances. Quit focusing on what other people
have. Quit complaining about not getting "your share." If you did
not work for something, you have no right to it. You have the right
to pursue happiness, not a guarantee that you will achieve it.
So Douglass how do you tell the difference between greed and ambition? You
worry that those protesting wall street may confuse abition for greed. How
about by their fruits ye shall know them? Or as a pragmatist would ask how has
the wall street system worked out, what are its results? When a wall street
centric economy has produced an increase in wealth of 245% for the top 1% over
the past thrity years and an increase of between 40% and 60% for the vast
majority of it's other working citizens..I think the distinction is clear..it's
greed. The production of wealth isn't at question here it's the distribution of
the wealth produced. The situation isn't actually as simple as
greed versus ambition but that comparison is a good marker to demonstrate how
broken our system is.
The debate over the "deserving poor" and the "undeserving
poor" has been with us for centuries. Apparently we're beginning to have
the same debate about the rich.
I applaud all wealthy people like Huntsman, Gates, and Buffett, who donate vast
sums to charitable causes; what they do is indeed praiseworthy. However, I am
not aware of any of them who is not still fabulously wealthy after the donation.
Their donations don't really hurt them or reduce them to the level of the
common man. They have not yet achieved the status of the poor widow who
"of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had." (Luke 21:4)
Maybe we should measure charitable generosity not so much by how much is given,
but by how much is kept back.