Comments about ‘At BYU, Lieberman says Romney nomination would test American fairness’

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Published: Tuesday, Oct. 25 2011 5:20 p.m. MDT

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procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: ". . . I bet that every person who has been in the work force in this State would have a factual story to tell about how certain people . . . were given favoritism . . . ."

I've been in the workforce in this state and I don't have a story about "certain people" [you mean Mormons, of course] receiving preference over others.

In fact, during a stint in labor law, I found just the opposite -- people in authority, not of our faith, giving unlawful preference to those they thought were also not affiliated with the predominant Utah religion.

Interestingly, in 2 of those cases, those being unlawfully favored fooled 'em, and really were [lapsed] Mormons -- not that any of us could have known, but it was ironic, all the same.

So, is your premise that it's OK for people to discriminate against Mormons, since Utah Mormons discriminate against our non-LDS neighbors?

Interesting, but you'll have prove both assumptions by someone other than me.

As you said -- "Too bad people can't be fair in their decisions huh!"

Huh, indeed!

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'So, is your premise that it's OK for people to discriminate against Mormons, since Utah Mormons discriminate against our non-LDS neighbors?' - procuradorfiscal | 3:19 p.m. Oct. 25, 2011

Discrimination is not acceptable.

It is also not reasonable to claim discrimination does not exist due to the experiences of one person, who is anonomys.

In the SLC 2009 discrimination report, the percentage of African American persons who lived below the poverty level...?

30%.

The per month average of LGBT persons who had to file a complaint due to housing and employment discrimination in SLC...?

Three. Per month.

So, please. Do not claim that Mormons do not discrimination because of your one, example.

Heck, I can't even mention Prop 8 because the Deseret News cannot stand behind the stories they publish.

Oh, and that SLC 2009 discrimination report...?

It can all be found on the website.

Page, 19.

DSB
Cedar Hills, UT

I've probably written comments challenging The Atheist more than once. I daresay we probably don't agree on a lot of things. But, I wholeheartedly agree with his comments on this thread, and I'm happily and enthusiastically LDS. I'm not ashamed to admit that I would probably never vote for an atheist, because I believe it's extremely important for the leader of our country to invoke the blessings of Providence on our nation.

That said, my candidate of choice does not have to be LDS, and the specific religious affiliation is not my primary concern. I do happen to like Romney's track record on economics and leadership, and he's clearly intellectually superior to many other Republican candidates. I also like his family orientation and non-profit service. I'm honest enough to admit that the personal values formed by our common religion is an advantage as I consider my options.

I think anyone who tries to tell me that I'm Un-American or trampling on the Constitution for having this "religious test" is far more Un-American than I, for presuming to tell me what I can, and cannot, consider as a motivating factor in my vote. That's my constitutional right.

BigRich
Orem, UT

@Pagen. My apologies. My remarks were actually directed to atheist and I mistyped who it was.

defibman
Syracuse, UT

So Pagan, do you believe the same about Obama? That you will vote for him because of what he has done? I await your response.

Z
South Jordan, UT

@Pagan, given that SLC is the LEAST Mormon city in Utah (with the possible exception of Park City), poverty numbers and discrimination reports from SLC alone are a pretty poor case for Mormon discrimination.

Do individual Mormons discriminate? Certainly, but the same can be said for any population group. One can also find individual Mormons, Jews, Catholics, Pagans, etc., that are friendly, caring and neighborly.

Pulling out the broad brush may be an effective way to stir up controversy, but it is rarely accurate.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'That you will vote for him because of what he has done?' - defibman | 4:08 p.m. Oct. 25, 2011

*'Osama bin Laden Killed: 'Justice Is Done,' President Says' - By DEAN SCHABNER - ABC News - 05/01/2011

'Osama bin Laden, hunted as the mastermind behind the worst terrorist attack on U.S. soil, has been killed, President Obama announced tonight.'

*We have been waiting for this moment: Libya confirms Gadhafi is dead MSNBC 10/20/2011

SIRTE, Libya Deposed Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi has been killed, the Libyan prime minister confirmed Thursday, following news of his capture and reports of his death.

*'Obama announces total Iraq troop withdrawal' - By Ben Feller - AP - Published by DSNews - 10/21/2011

'WASHINGTON President Barack Obama on Friday declared an end to the Iraq war, one of the longest and most divisive conflicts in U.S. history, announcing that all U.S. troops would be withdrawn from the country by year's end.'

Yep!

Oh, and as for the economy...

*Senate Republicans likely to kill Obama jobs bill By Andrew Taylor AP Published by DSNews 10/11/11

How can Obama create jobs...

when the Republican party votes 'no' on anything that would make jobs?

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'Pulling out the broad brush may be an effective way to stir up controversy, but it is rarely accurate.' - Z | 4:15 p.m. Oct. 25, 2011

Then why, is it tolerated?

*'Buttars used 'black baby' remark again, officials say' - By Rodger L. Hardy - DSNews - 07/05/08

'At an earlier legislative session Buttars said in referring to a bill, "this baby is black ... it's a dark and ugly thing."

*'Gays greatest threat to America, Buttars says' - By Aaron Falk - DSnews - 02/19/09

Discrimination is not acceptable. Weather it is directed FROM Mormons or AGAINST them. Neither has any place in our society.

It was never my intention to claim otherwise.

However, I WILL point to the three elections Buttars won, in 2000, 2004 & 2008 to show that discrimination does EXIST...

and is sometimes, supported.

We, you and I, need to make those people accountable, for their actions.

speed66
Heber City, UT

Lieberman was pandering to the crowd. Shocking. Did he ever say anything like that away from BYU?

People will make their decisions on their own criteria and feelings. Pretending that the average voter is well-informed is simply an act of wishful thinking. While those on this thread may follow politics, most people have trouble naming the countries - even continents - in which we are currently involved in active military action.

Romney's problem isn't that he is LDS. If he gets through the Republican primaries, his faith will be inconsequential. His track record and casual relationship with the truth is his Achilles's heel. Republicans may vote for Romney but many will do so reluctantly. What they will do is vote against Obama...sad that so often it comes down to voting against someone rather than voting for them. For most Dems, Kerry was the Romney of his party.

The real talent in the GOP are laying low and looking to make waves in 4 years. In the meantime, we are left with a choice between Perry, Romney, Cain and Paul. It's like showing up at the end of the close-out sale - nothing but misfits left to choose from.

hotchow
PROVO, UT

Trident, I hope we can have Pres Obama give a talk at BYU so we can add another warmonger to your list!

Cats
Somewhere in Time, UT

I can't believe that anyone even engages some of these bitter, unhappy, anti-religious posters in discourse. I don't even read their posts anymore. I skip right past them. There are sad, lonely, unhappy people who spend all their time spewing their emotional problems all over the internet. That's all it is. Nothing more. It's tragic.

Senator Lieberman is a good man. He tries to live his faith and is a man of great character. I'm so glad he came to BYU. Those of us who try to follow God and believe in the moral values laid out in our Constitution need to unite and continue the fight to save our country.

Palintram
Holladay, UT

Pander to the crowd. I'd guess Joe's about as knowledgeable re mormonism as the rest of the world is. If you find solace in his assurances that you're all ok, you should ask yourself why you think his opinion matters.

coleman51
Orem, UT

Joe Lieberman should know whereof he speaks. The history of the Latter-Day Saints is not unlike the history of the Jews. Persecution and bigotry have always been what we and the Jews have had to drink. Perhaps now, after we have broken the race barrier for a President, we can now break the religion barrier. Then we can claim as a nation that all men are created equal and deserve equal respect and dignity.

Moracle
Blackshear, GA

Once again, Pagan has succeeded in making the whole comments section almost completely about him and his opposition to things Mormon! Congratulations!

I've heard (don't know if true or not) that the Mormon haters have a contest amongst themselves to see who can rack up the most response from others who post in this comment space.

Like a bird on a limb, waiting to pounce upon the first movement it sees in the grass, some must anxiously wait for the online news -- in order to be among the first posting some anti-LDS morsel for others to attack. Then they succeed in making the comment section mostly about themselves and their down-on-Mormons comments. (See? Even I am doing it.... dang! Fell for the trap!)

But, it IS cheap entertainment, and that's worth something, I guess, isn't it?

defibman
Syracuse, UT

@ Pagan

You may be interested in an article by a life-long Democrat from CO.
"Barack Obama is setting a record-setting number of records during his first term in office: Largest budget ever. Largest deficit ever. Largest number of broken promises ever. Most self-serving speeches ever. Largest number of agenda-setting failures ever. Fastest dive in popularity ever! Wow! Talk about change.

Just one year ago, fresh from his inauguration celebrations, President Obama was flying high. After one of the nation's most inspiring political campaigns, the election of America 's first black president had captured the hopes and dreams of millions. To his devout followers, it was inconceivable that a year later his administration would be gripped in self-imposed crisis.

Of course, they don't see it as self-imposed. It's all George Bush's fault !

George Bush, who doesn't have a vote in congress and who no longer occupies The White House, is to blame for it all."

Continued

He broke Obama's promise, to close the detention center at Guantanamo in the first year.

defibman
Syracuse, UT

@ Pagan continued

"He broke Obama's promise, to put all bills on the White House web site for five days before signing them.

He broke Obama's promise, to have the congressional health care negotiations broadcast live on C-SPAN.

He broke Obama's promise, to end earmarks.

He broke Obama's promise, to keep unemployment from rising above 8 percent.

He broke Obama's promise, to close the detention center at Guantanamo in the first year.

He broke Obama's promise, to make peace with direct, no precondition talks with America's most hate-filled enemies during his first year in office, ushering in a new era of global cooperation.

He broke Obama's promise, to end the hiring of former lobbyists into high White House jobs.

He broke Obama's promise, to end no-compete contracts with the government.

He broke Obama's promise, to disclose the names of all attendees at closed White House meetings.

He broke Obama's promise, for a new era of bipartisan cooperation in all matters.

He broke Obama's promise, to have chosen a home church to attend Sunday services with his family by Easter of last year."

Continued

defibman
Syracuse, UT

@ Pagan continued

"Yes, it's all George Bush's fault! President Obama is nothing more than a puppet in the never-ending failed Bush administration.



If only George Bush wasn't still in charge, all of President Obama's problems would be solved. His promises would have been kept, the economy would be back on track, Iran would have stopped its work on developing a nuclear bomb and would be negotiating a peace treaty with Israel. North Korea would have ended its tyrannical regime, and integrity would have been restored to the federal government.

Oh, and did I mention what it would be like, if the Democrats, under the leadership of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, didn't have the heavy yoke of George Bush around their necks? There would be no earmarks, no closed-door drafting of bills, no increase in deficit spending, no special-interest influence (unions), no vote buying ( Nebraska , Louisiana ).

If only George Bush wasn't still in charge, we'd have real change by now."

Continued

toosmartforyou
Farmington, UT

I have my doubts about whether several posters comprehended the point of the speech. It seems to have spiraled downward into one's own vendetta against religion, race, war or any number of perifial things that have little to do with the either context or content of what was actually said.

But that's another great thing about politics: ignorance is bliss and closed minds qualify to be thought of as being "ignorant."

VST
Bountiful, UT

@Cats said,

"Senator Lieberman is a good man. He tries to live his faith and is a man of great character."

I wholeheartedly agree with you. It is sad when an individual like Senator Lieberman is denigrated when all he is doing is promulgating the idea of fairness towards all candidates by the voting public, regardless of their religious preferences. The founders of the Constitution were obviously in full agreement with Senator Lieberman when they mandated the religious preferences of candidates cannot be used as a "litmus test" when they drafted Article 6 of the Constitution.

FDRfan
safety dictates, ID

Mitt Romney should kiss off the far right and BYU should do the same to the Big 12. The Lieberman types should be Romney's focus and BYU should stay independent with its own TV network. Does being independent from the world apply here?

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