Comments about ‘Secrecy has its place, but not in redistricting’

The present environment in Washinton is also very prevalent in Utah. This state has changed drastically in the past 20 years and has lost it's civility and mutual respect and the desire to educate everybody living here. The local church leaders go along with this atmosphere and encourage it. Thus leaving the people to become very unneighborly towards each other. We have decided that greed for money and fast profit is far more important than the desire for education and neighborly kindness. Utahns have lost their moral direction very badly and it will take decades to get it back if they ever do.

"It may be physically impossible to draw a contiguous district that is both one-fourth of the state and majority Democrat."

If Utah wants more open and even handed government it is going to have to elect more Democrats. The complete domination of one party, Democrat or Republican, will almost always lead to abuses of power.

All the public hearing and citizen input were just a smoke screen. In the end they met behind closed doors and did what they were always intending to do.

This is the result of a one party system. When will Utah learn that it is not in their best interest?

The Truth is out, The Republicans have broken the Law in this endevor and they will not be charged with breaking the Law.

Voting records should have no place in the redistricting process either. Base the rolls on population and communities, not how they voted.

Utah politicians; the new definition of slimy.

so Evenson, are you a Democrat? If the Dems want to have their way, they should present to voters reasons to vote for them. So far they have failed in that respect. Also to address the so called "Super Committee" in Congress, we shouldn't leave the fate if the free world in the hands of so few. We should vote people into Congress that will do the hard job that they are elected to do, not pander to lobbyists and other special interests.

Utah is a de facto one party state. Consequently, the people's business is de facto discussed, negotiated and decided in the (secret) party caucus and just rubber-stamped in public. Consequently, it is imperative that all caucus meetings be open so the people can see what their elected representatives are doing. The "family fights" SHOULD be public knowledge.

DR Hall, I've never heard a local church leader promote the things you claim. Nor have I heard in the news, of any other church leader in Utah promoting anything like what you are claiming they have done.

"Also, few people are complaining about the way the state House and Senate districts were drawn."

That is exactly what most people are complaining about. I don't know where you have been, but the concerns most people have are that neighborhoods and communities in Salt Lake County have been split up just to give Republican candidates the advantage in future elections.

People choose to live in certain areas because of the values of their neighbors. I have more in common with my friend who lives a mile away than most people in Paragonah, but I am now in the same district with the people of Paragonah. My friend just a mile away is now in the same district with people in Vernal. That doesn't make much sense other than silencing the more liberal voters of Salt Lake County.

Rumor has it that a lot of this nonsense was done to get Wimmer into office. Well, I may possibly be starting an early campaign "Anybody but Wimmer for Congress" soon.

Dr Hall, shame on you for accusing the Church leaders of things they have not done. I have never heard one single Church leader promote this type of attitude. The Legislators have brought them on themselves, without anyone making any statement. They have quit representing the people and have become more concerned with their petty ideas and preserving their incumbency.

We need to vote every single one of them out in the next election. Cleaning house is the only way to correct the mess they have caused.

To "Larry | 6:08 a.m." what law was broken? Are there laws that prevent the GOP or DNC from meeting as a group to decide on the policy that their group can agree with?

So, no laws were broken. The latest redistricting plan was debated and presented to the Legislature, and voted on in accordance with Utah law, so what is the problem?

@Larry, you incorrectly stated "The Republicans have broken the Law in this [endeavor]..."

That is not accurate. Although I personally do not condone how this was done, (aka, using a closed caucus to resolve redistricting disagreements within their own caucus), holding a closed party caucus does not violate any constitutional provision or legal statute. Open meeting laws do not apply when it involves a political party caucus. Closed party caucuses among Democrats and Republicans are legally held, not only in the Utah legislature, but also in the U.S. Congress and in all other State legislatures throughout the country.

As for gerrymandering districts for political advantage, it also is not constitutionally or legally prohibited. Political gerrymandering has already been challenged in the U.S. Supreme Court, and subsequently dismissed by that same Court in 2004. In that decision, the Court deemed that political gerrymandering is a political issue (should be addressed by Congress or the respective State legislatures). In other words, it is not a legal issue.

I wholeheartedly agree that no one at this point can prove that the republicans have done anything illegal. But setting the standard that what they have done is ok because no one can prove its illegal, sets a pretty low standard.

My Mother always taught me that right was right no matter how few people were doing it, and wrong was wrong no matter how many people were doing it. She never mentioned the law one time when she tried to teach me what I should do. I would hope that no one would say it is right to make decisions that affect this state for the next ten years in a closed party caucus.

It is correct that the constitution was drafted in secrecy but not by one party. It also must be said that after the constitution was drafted in secret, there was a two year debate before it was passed as the law of the land.

After most of us had gone to bed,the redistricting maps came out of the closed party caucus and were approved in about twenty minutes. That may be legal, but it certainly isn't right.

The Utah Legislature no longer represents us. It only represents the minority who show up at Republican Caucuses.

We, the majority, the disappointed, must either show up at the caucuses in March or vote for Democrats. Otherwise minority rule continues.

As Representative Mike Morley says, "This is not a democracy."

@Fred44,

Nowhere in my comment did I say what they did was OK. I am not advocating a new (low) standard.

But I am also a realist. Sometimes politicians will be politicians, whether they are Democrats or Republicans. My Representative here in Bountiful (Jim Nielsen) was not one of them - he openly advocated on the legislative floor that his caucus should NOT go to a closed session. I agree with his position.

Utah Sen. Mike Lee

"...I am not aware of any situation where a legislative committee responsible for matters of such profound sweeping importance operates in secret...".

If that quote is accurate, the most telling part might be:

"...I am not aware...".

They didn't do anything that isn't being done across the country especially in heavy Democrat states. Get over it, just part of politics.

VST

I was not referring to your comment directly. Many have made the "legal" argument. My concern is we condone behavior that we know is inappropriate, or in the case of many republicans in this state, we condone behavior locally by republicans that we criticize at the national level or in other states when its done by the democrats.

I fail to understand why reasonable people in the republican party refuse to stand up and say that something is wrong. I will give your representative credit to a point for stating it was wrong, but I would give him a lot more credit had he refused to be part of the closed caucus. That would have made a significant statement.

I still go back to why can't our republican super majority do their business in the public eye? What are they afraid of? It is not a lawsuit, that was a lame excuse provided on a platter by the democrats. This is not a new concept for the republicans, every year the majority of the debate on the state budget and most of the significant bills that come from the legislature occurs only in the republican caucuses.

i believe all redistricting should be done in secret and by a non-profit chosen by lot---i believe that could work as follows---

every state would form a blind trust to support a non-profit redistricting company or committee---if multiple companies wish the redistricting work (not likely because very limited market with no control), then lowest bidder should apply
when any state needed redistricting a rep from each of the 50 companies would meet with the governor of that state and participate in a double blind draw---
first all reps would draw a number from 1-50 from a common container
then the numbers would be returned and the governor would draw one to perform the redistricting---
the "winning" company would do the job and the legislature would confirm---

voila!
no possible gerrymandering because no ones knows who will do the work---
no undue influence because it may not even be the states inside company---
no personal position or "skin" in the effort---
state retains control by the confirmation vote---if not confirmed then the company will look at concerns and either adjust or justify their position---