@NavalVetYou lost us at..."Heloo, allow myself to
introduce myself, I'm NavalVet".
Mizzou takes big step toward the SEC this afternoon.The governing
curators at Missouri unanimously gave Chancellor Brady Deaton the authority
Friday to move the school out of the Big 12 if he decides that is in the
school's best interest. He gave no timeline for a decision but indicated that a
move, if it happens, would not take much longer."We're not
looking at a long time frame," Deaton said, adding that any move would
anticipate playing in another conference beginning next season, not in 2013 or
farther out.While Deaton avoided saying that he favors leaving the
Big 12 or identifying the SEC as a potential landing spot, it was clear that the
SEC is the target."We've provided information to the SEC,"
Deaton said at a news conference following a two-day curators' meeting, sitting
alongside athletic director Mike Alden and other school officials.
Lots of Ute fans (or BYU haters) are sure worried about what goes on at BYU?!?
Why do you even care? Geez half of these posts in the BYU articles are ute
fans. I have nothing aginst Utah, but I can't even remember the last time I
even read a ute article.As far as Big 12, I disagree with Harmon, I
think that ship has sailed. The offer was close to the table, but something
messed it up, it is what it is. I hope and pray that I am wrong, but I think
First of all, Iʻm a Dick Harmon fan and he had credibility with me
because heʻs been right so many times before, so I think his opinion
has a lot of weight.As a fan, I want to see BYU Football to compete
in the best scenario possible, even if it means they have as miserable of a
start as Utah has had (and this year they would be a mediocre Big 12 team).
Whether that is as an independent or in a conference doesnʻt matter so
much to me--as long as theyʻre playing challenging opponents. Having
said that, they need to be in the Big 12 because:1. They are not
Notre Dame and they will always struggle to fill a full season with challenging
football opponents.2. Fans want to see Texas, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State
at Lavell Edwards stadium.3. Some of us (at least I) want to see Kansas,
Kansas State and Texas come to the Marriott Center for basketball.4. I can
only assume the BCS payout exceeds what we could do with with an independent
ESPN deal.Sunday play in non-negotiable. BYUtv replay coverage is
"Utah hasn't beaten a really good, double-digit win team since the Sugar
Bowl in 2008."BlueCoug:And the last time the y beat
a top five, double-digit win team, away from LES, was...? (Hint, it's not OU
in '09--they finished 8-5 and unranked. And it's not TCU in '06, their highest
ranking was 21st.) I won't wait up for you to get back to me on
that.And, FYI, the Utes are playing Cal in SF tomorrow,...just to be
@Go Red. You still don't get it! So, let me make things a bit more clear for
you. See; 0-3 in this condition is not a score. If it were, by having the
"0" in the position it is would mean that it relates to the previous
team's score position (54). Therefore, in this situation, where Utah (winning
by a score of 54-10 in the first ) would be the loser in the second score - by a
field goal.Thus what you stated above was a dumb conclusion.But the 0-3 (as I mentioned before) is not a score. It is (in this case) a
record! A lousy record for that matter. It is a "poor and winless
record" relating to the utes pac-x performances this season - thus far!There; do you now have a better understanding of what Riverton Cougar
was saying? Great! Glad I could help. Have a good day.
"Get your facts straight...your Ute's had a losing record to BYU during the
WAC/MWC alignment era...It was BYU that taught Utah to be competative [sic] in
football once again rather than the losers they had become during the 1970s and
1980s." -- "SLC BYU Fan"I have to laugh at Y fans,
such as the one above, who would babble unsubstantiated crackpot theories like
Pres. Boyd K. Packer sabotaging the cougars' only shot at joining an AQ
conference because he's a Utah State fan, but then demand rival fans to
"Get [their] facts straight." Typical hypocritical coug.And a typical "cherry picking" coug too. While it's true the
cougars had Utah's number during the '70s and '80s during our stint in the WAC,
the Y who had a losing record to the U amid the era of the MWC alignment; losing
58.3% of the time.And finally, the Y did NOT teach the U to be
competitive in football. That would have been Coach McBride. And it would have
been Coach Meyer who raised our national profile. If we had learned anything
from you, we'd be an irrelevant, unwanted, no-BCS bowling Indy-WAC team.
@riverton cougarYou asked the hypothetical question: "What's
the difference between 54-10 and 0-3"? Uh, I would think the difference
would probably be that in one game, both sides fought closely, and it came down
to a game-winning field goal. The other game was obviously a laugher, where one
team annihilated the other team in such a way that it could not be considered a
fair contest.It's interesting that you happen to choose both actual
scores of games in which the Utes beat BYU.
I disagree Dick, if Missouri stays, BYU is not in. If Missouri goes, then we
have a conversation, but I don't think it's a sure thing even then. Not this
year at least. BYU is demanding too much out of the deal.
I am not sure if BYU would be invited to the BCS league like the Big 12, when
its scheduling teams that are FCS and not playing teams from a BCS league. Why
did BYU go independent, so it could play FCS school or teams from a non BCS
conference? BCS league would only want to to bring another school if it could
generate revenue for their league and being a religious school is not relevant
as Baylor University is the Big 12. Hopefully BYU (while being independent) will
schedule only teams that are from a BCS conference and nothing less. BYU made
the choice to go independent as it left the MWC which was a non BCS conference
however not a conference of FCS schools. If BYU wants more Cougar Club
donations, higher ticket sales, advertisement sales, increased cable revenue
with ESPN, or more sports apparel sales, they better schedule only BCS level
As nice as Big 12 Conference is, I am not confident BYU would be invited because
BYU elected to be independent versus staying in a NCAA Division I football
conference. Than BYU scheduled a number of non BCS teams to play against as an
independent. Scheduling football games with teams from non BCS leagues makes no
sense or claim you want to play the best team as an independent. Big
12 has a religious school in its conference, Baylor University. So religion is
not an issue. The bigger issue for any conference is diving the revenue pie by
adding an additional member.BYU elected to leave MWC conference for
independence but in turn scheduled weak opponents to justify its desire to play
in BCS bowl and/or be invited into a BCS league? If BYU is going to stay
independent and not join a BCS league than please at least play teams from a BCS
league and nothing less. You can't use the excuse of an existing conference
schedule when your independent.
"BlueCoug..............BYU beat a mightily terrible 1-5 Oregon State team
by 10 and somehow you're thumping your chest?"Jenny83, what's
the difference between beating Oregon State on the road by 10 points and beating
an FCS team at home by 17 points?Ute fans talk about how Utah is
good because they are a BCS team, declaring the superiority of BCS teams, yet at
the same time say how much OSU (a BCS team) stinks. So.... BCS teams are the
best, but some BCS teams are terrible?I know, I know... 54-10 blah
blah blah. What's the difference between 54-10 and 0-3? It's easier to prove
one game to be a fluke than it is to prove 3 games as flukes.
Hilarious!Look at Cougar fans grasping for lolly pops!You will
never, ever get over the fact that Utah got into a power conference first.Go ahead and make fun of Utah's Pac 12 schedule. Anything is better than your
How's that Heaps for Heisman campaign going?
If BYU doesn't get invited to the big 12 it will most likely be due to geography
and population. The big 12 decides to go east and not west and that's it BYU
will be left out. I think that is likely to happen. As sad as it is I think we
are not getting in. We are pretty far west and we are the only good option for
the Big 12. Why expand west for one school?
BlueCoug..............BYU beat a mightily terrible 1-5 Oregon State team by 10
and somehow you're thumping your chest?
JohnInSLCJust so we're even more clear:Utah hasn't had a
road win against PAC 10 with a winning record since 1996.It's no
surprise that Utah started the season 0-3 in the PAC 12. Utah has always
struggled against good PAC 10 teams, especially on the road.And, no,
beating California in the Poinsettia Bowl isn't the same as beating California
in Berkeley.Utah hasn't beaten a really good, double-digit win team
since the Sugar Bowl in 2008.
To say that BYU has not been invited is to skirt the issue. Of course we all
know that a formal invitation is extended after negotiations. Very few schools
officially apply to a conference without reassurances that they'll be accepted.
Likewise, almost no shcool is invited into a conference until the conference
knows that the invitation will be accepted. The real question for Holmoe to
answer is whether certain demands have been made by BYU which would make an
invitation highly unlikely. Of course, he can't say, "we've been talking
to the Big 12, they've shown genuine interest, but we are unwilling to bend
here, here, and here. So our discussions ended after that and they went after
TCU knowing that they wouldn't be making any demands whatsoever." As I've
said before, if the hang-up was a refusal to play on Sunday, fine. If it was
anything else, they're crazy and deserve to be relegated to indefinite
BlueCoug:Just so we are clear: To bag on the Utes you
take their performance for THIS SEASON and compare it to 32 y seasons to reach
the conclusion that the cougies would be competitive in the Big 12minus. So you
cheerfully ignore Utah's recent record against the Pac-10, with wins over SC,
Oregon, Oregon State, Cal, etc., and ignore the fact the Y lost THIS SEASON to
an overrated Texas team and has yet to lose to a certain future member in
TCU.Get the money back you paid for that statistics class you
JohnInSLCNice try, but LaVell earned got PhD from BYU and Norm
learned his passing attack at the feet of LaVell while he was coaching at BYU.
Neither Utah State nor Utah had passing offenses that even remotely
resembled the passing attack LaVell developed at BYU. Whittingham, and many,
many others learned how to coach from LaVell.williaryYou
obviously don't understand that the quest was for another national championship,
NOT simply an undefeated season. Get back to us when you have one of those
Waterford Crystal Football trophies in your trophy case emblematic of the
pinnacle of college football, not just a hilltop.
SoonerUte"The Big 12 is a tougher league than the Pac 12. Utah
is a better team than BYU. You can laugh at how Utah is doing in the Pac 12, but
they are a great indicator of how BYU would do in the Big 12."Unlike Utah, which is struggling with the big dogs of their new conference,
BYU is 4-1 versus the big dogs of the Big 12, Oklahoma 2-0 and Texas 2-1. Since
1980, BYU is 8-4 versus current Big 12 teams. The Cougars aren't worried about
being competitive in the Big 12, that's a given.
"Utah had to hire former Cougars in order to become truly competitive in
football."Right back at you sls. The U's current
coaches were tutored by Utes, because after 50 years of futility the y had to
hire a Utah Man (or two) to find relevancy. Ask LaVell where he got his masters
degree. Ask Norm where he got his bachelors degree.Wake up! Your
Ute-borrowing days of success are over.
@slsIt's too bad that coach turned down BYU, as he was their first
choice.Maybe he could have led BYU to Perfect Their Quest. Like he did at Utah.
@Tom in CABYU lost to that soon to be 0-4 Utah team, on their home
field, by MORE THAN 6 TOUCHDOWNS!If Utah is as bad as you think
they are, what does that make your Cougars?And lets not even get
started on the Cougars record against ranked teams, winning teams, and in Bowl
games.You know, the type of teams you'd be playing weekly in the
Pac-12/Big-12.BYU has it perfect. Stay independent, schedule 7 WAC
games a year, plus someone like UCF, maybe beat 1 bottom tier BCS team a season,
and get the 8-9 wins your fanbase requires. Quality of quantity.
Something BYU fans could care less about. They'll take 7 wins over dogs any day
of the week.
Utah had to hire former Cougars in order to become truly competitive in
football. Even the invitation to the Pac 12 came after a BYU grad became
president of the U of U. Of course, he didn't hesitate to move on when he got a
better offer (from Washington).
Not only is the Utah loss an indicator of how BYU would do in the Big 12, the
Texas loss is as well. The Longhorns have lost to OU bad and Okie State bad. I
don't see Texas beating Baylor, A & M, Texas Tech, or Kansas State. I'm not
sure they beat Missouri or Kansas either. They probably don't play all of those
teams but again I would be shocked if Texas is better than 7-5 when the year
Tom in CA responded to "In the Big 12 byu would be eaten alive most
years."Sort of like every year utah being eaten alive in the Pac
whatever??? Soon to be 0-4. Exactly, Tom. The Big 12 is a tougher
league than the Pac 12. Utah is a better team than BYU. You can laugh at how
Utah is doing in the Pac 12, but they are a great indicator of how BYU would do
in the Big 12.
"So when BYU is in the Big 12, then the Cougars could play the utes for a
national championship."Still dipping into the Mendenhall/Hypes
N/C Kool-Aid, huh Tom? We don't buy that drink in Salt Lake, because we DO play
with the big boys.
To Tom in CA and SLC BYU Fan: 54-10. That is the present and the future.
Expect the Y's third loss in a row next year in Rice Eccles Stadium. Then hear
Holmoe cry his way out of continuing a series that will no longer be a rivalry.
Let the Y delude itself by beating bottom dwellers in the WAC that they are a
good team. 54-10 speaks for itself. "Fans" like you are what keeps
BYU on the outside looking in. And to all you Y fans that think Utah fans care
where you go; well, talk about delusional. Maybe Chris B. is right afterall...
Perhaps BYU should apply to the Big Ten...Goodness knows they'd be
an upgrade over the Golden Rodents in pretty much everything except ice hockey
(which is pretty much all anyone up here cares about anyway...just sayin') :)
It just came to me:These utah trolls are so paranoid and terrified
that the Mighty Cougars will end up in the Big 12, that it is literally driving
them to the nut house. Once it is official, it will feel like a massive sucker
punch to them.
@Tom in CA | 1:33 p.m. Oct. 20, 2011 "Sort of like every year utah
being eaten alive in the Pac whatever??? Soon to be 0-4."Tom,
sort of like every year Y struggling to compete with WAC teams. Sort of like
every year the Y getting dominated by a team you say gets eaten alive in the
As a Ute fan I am hoping BYU gets the invite to the big 12. I think BYU going
independent was a big mistake and the fact we would have a PAC 12 and Big 12
schools in the state would benefit us all. You know, National Championship and
the strength of schedule thing? Could you imagine Rivalry Week with a PAC 12
school VS. a Big 12 school. It's a win/win for everybody!Look at it
this way, we will have allot more swagger when we beat BYU as a Big 12 team than
we do now beating them as a Independent. This will also help teams like Dixie,
Southern Utah, Weber and Utah States, the Skyline Meat Squad, La Tech and many
others who will come away with a win when they play BYU. This is great for the
entire state of Utah, nay the entire USA. OK now I will be serious.
BYU going to the Big 12 is a good thing. Good luck on that Cougs....
"40 years of WAC legacy means nothing outside of Provo."Unless, of course, you are Miami, SMU, Michigan, UCLA, Oregon, Pitt, etal.UtahMan4evr 12:39 pm - another little brother with the red-headed
@Ironman: The rest of the Big 12 can do Sunday events as they so choose, just
not to involve BYU with such. Just like shopping, just don't show up at a store
on the Sabbath. Patronizing is old schol rhetoric that is no longer
preached.@UtahMan4Ever: Get your facts straight...BYU has been
around longer than Utah State (1875 vs. 1888), and your Ute's had a losing
record to BYU during the WAC/MWC alignment era (1962-2010) going 20-29 against
the dreaded TDS. They might have won all but a half dozen of the prior games
(there were 2 BYU wins...1942 & 1958...and 4 ties). Keep in mind that
between 1972 and 1992 BYU won all but 2 games against Utah. It was BYU that
taught Utah to be competative in football once again rather than the losers they
had become during the 1970s and 1980s.
"In the Big 12 byu would be eaten alive most years."ET:Sort of like every year utah being eaten alive in the Pac whatever???
Soon to be 0-4.
So when BYU is in the Big 12, then the Cougars could play the utes for a
national championship. Oh wait, I meant Oregon or USC.
Its funny how many Ute fans are posting on this article, do you guys still feel
inferior or afraid. The fact is that BYU got a Pac 12 win before Utah did, now
that's history, Utah won't beat Cal this week, and after you guys made fun of
BYU going to the Macaroni Bowl next year, where do you think you guys are going
to end up this year, if you can even get a bowl invite, and the Pac 12 may not
fulfil its bowl obligations, how sad.
As was stated, BYU being independent in Football is a good thing, they are a
national program, can recruit nationally, and should play nationally. The
firesides before games on the road have been very well received as the spirit of
BYU spreads across the country. The big 12 is not such a good idea if you want
to keep BYU as a national football program like Notre Dame.
Here's what Lenn Robbins of the New York Post wrote:"BYU,
Louisville and West Virginia, in that order, are on the Big 12's radar. BYU has
had conversations with the Big 12. "If the league goes to 12,
BYU Louisville and West Virginia would all get invites."But to
add more teams Missouri has to leave, and that will probably be announced
tomorrow since their board of curators is meeting today and tomorrow in Kansas
What is this big brother/little brother nonsense, especially that being mouthed
by BYU fans? Utah, and for that matter, Utah State were established long before
the school down south. And except for a period in the mid-70's to mid 80's,
Utah football has owned BYU. Is it the paranoia associated with being a Y fan?
You guys all seem to carry chips on your shoulder. As for membership in the Big
XII, who cares. At the rate it's going, it will be a non-AQ conference in a few
years, probably replaced by the MWC. Now wouldn't that ne ironic?
statman:Idaho State is no Montana State by any stretch. Montana
State has won all of its games since Utah and is powerhouse in the lower bowl
subdivision. Lest we laugh at that, just ask Michigan when they lost to
Appalachian State or VA Tech when they lost to James Madision. Boise State and
Nevada (formerly Nevada Reno) came from this lower subdivision and they beat BYU
on a regular basis.Even as a Cougar fan, BYU's schedule is
laughable. Texas might end up 7-5 when it's all said and done, Ole Miss is the
worst team in the SEC, TCU is down. And Utah is 3-3. These were the tough games
on BYU's schedule. Since BYU couldn't beat Utah or Texas, their
season becomes basically meaningless. I think going to the Armed Forces Bowl
was a given.As for piling on the Utes, they will win three to four
games in the PAC-12 when it's all said and done BYU's victory over Oregon State
will be just another lackluster win over a less than stellar opponent. If BYU
could actually beat TCU or even Hawaii on the road, I might be somewhat
The Birmingham newspaper says that Alabama now supports Missouri's bid to join
the SEC, but only if they play in the East Division. Well, we'll see what we
bballjunkie:So the Y didn't want Chase Hansen of Lone Peak or Nate
Fakahafua of Highland. If the Cougs are "too good" to go for these
recruits, I have to question their recruiting acumen...
For those of you up north. There could possibly be some movement on the part of
Missouri today or tomorrow. Their grand poobahs that oversee such stuff are
meeting in Kansas City and it's expected they will begin the withdrawal from the
Big 12 and await their invite to the SEC. Now, anybody with any brains at all
knows that, like TA&M, they would not start withdrawal papers if an invite
was not actually waiting for them. The risk of failure would be far too great
and there wouldn't be enough pie to cover all the faces. Kansas City Star still
says Louisville, W VA and BYU with Cincinnati as a dark horse.
I think you would hear others talking about BYU and the Big 12 if there were any
serious talks going on - ESPN, etc...It would be a nice move for the
Y but I seriously doubt BYU will ever get invited. I hope I'm wrong.
"Here we go again. Rambling off a semi-impressive list of BYU football
accomplishments.40 years of WAC legacy means nothing outside of Provo.No conference has officially invited you in all that time."It
obviously means more in Salt Lake than it does in Provo because the majority of
the Ute fan base comes over here to post about it. Why don't you go
post on the boards of your new rival Colorado? They're more your speed anyways.
I am not saying that Harmon is wrong, but he has been wrong more often than he
has been right. If I were him, or any Y fan for that matter, I would wait until
something concrete comes out. Not from Deep Shades, Chip Brown, Dick Harmon,
etc. Harmon is a poor prognosticator, and until Holmoe is up in from of the
camera with his awesome argyle sweater stating that the Y is now in the Big 12,
no one should believe anything any beat writer, blogger, radio host etc. has to
say. There are too many things going on in conference re alignment to believe.
Very well put Ernest....Byu is barely beating teams that are some of the worst
teams in the nation.
There is a much larger LDS-fan base in the west than in the south. Have no idea
why Big-12 is even a consideration.Oh, I forgot, it's all about the
BCS now, isn't it? I remember the years when we cheered for the likes of Wilson.
We were thrilled when the Cougars received even a small amount media mention.
Today everyone is spoiled. Have to have giant media coverage, a spot for the
biggest bowls, and money.Love the Cougs, but I think the program
should re-consider their purpose, and asks themselves the question, "Just
because we can, does it mean that we should?"
Dick:Thank you for your insights and continued journalistic
excellence. However, I respectfully disagree with your conclusion in today's
article.BYU will not be in the Big 12.The Cougs don't
practice or compete on Sunday. Many of the Big 12 teams practice and compete on
Sunday. The Big 12 will never accept BYU football only to avoid the Sunday
issue with the other sports.BYU is not interested in practicing and
competing on Sunday. BYU is not interested in the Big 12. The Big 12 is not
interested in BYU because of its Sunday policy. The sentiment is mutual. Let's
call it mutual respect.BYU will continue as an Independent in
football, exactly how the university likes it. Its other sports will continue
in the WCC that still honors keeping the Sabbath day holy.All of you
Sunday sports lovers now have a choice. You can send your sons and daughters to
the other school in the state that joined the PAC 12 which now competes on
Sunday, or you can send them out-of-state to conferences such as the Big 12.
Don't let BYU's antiquated standards get in your way :-)
Still don't want to see BYU in this conference for reasons already stated. Now
that TCU is in there, I definitely don't want to be in that conference. It's fun scheduling big teams like GT and ND and playing them year after
I've said it before and I'll say it again, byu's peaks and valleys would be
lower, much lower, in the Big 12. You want 10 easy wins a year, stay
independent.San Jose State and other bad teams still move the ball and the
WRs still get behind the DBs. In the Big 12 byu would be eaten alive most years.
One of the few very well written articles on the subject. Well done, Dick.I don't care if BYU stays independent or goes Big-12. I have other
things more important filling my life. Holmoe and his group are well aware of
the advantages and disadvantages and their necks are very much on the line --
they are taking this seriously. My two bits is of no consequence.Go
BYU. It's a great ride.
In the absence of authoritative information, the naive will make uninformed
accusations and shallow conclusions. Let it play out.
Chris B - Two things: Iinvitations to BCS conferences have little to do
with how a team performs on the field. Can't win a game in the conference. Are
you referring to the 0/3 Utes?
some BYU fan bragged:"There are only 4 NCAA sanctioned polls
for the NCAA D-1 Football Championship.(Coaches, Writers, NFF, FWAA)Only 19 programs of the 120 D-1 teams have ever won all of them in the
same year."Obviously, BYU has a football program to be proud
of. Some of their fans leave less to be desired. Why be so insecure that one has
to put down another program to boost their own seemingly unstable sense of
self-worth? That goes for Ute fans as well. Finishing an entire
season undefeated is a great accomplishment in any conference. But to be honest,
it was a lot easier, and still is, to finish undefeated in the WAC, as it was,
and still is, to finish undefeated in the deeper conferences.Also,
is it worth bragging about winning a mythical national championship by beating a
6-5 Michigan team that had to play a substitute at quarterback for the entire
game? Jim Harbaugh was injured for that Holiday Bowl game. BYU had
much better teams in the 80s than the one that is credited for winning the
I have read numerous places that IF the Big 12 decides to expand that West
Virginia and Louisville are on their short list. For some reason or another Byu
is no longer in the picture. Is that what other people are hearing?
My comments might get swallowed up in the pages of comments here.But
this Ute fan hopes that BYU makes it into the Big 12. It would be great for the
state of Utah, and both programs, BYU and Utah would benefit.Imagine
the possible scenario: BYU hosting and beating Oklahoma down in Provo, while on
the same Saturday, Utah hosting and beating USC in Salt Lake City. Wow. I can
only salivate at this and all the other possibilities.
@TrueBlueThat game can be played all day. You select 6 years, I
select 4 years, or 2 years, or 1 year.Fact:Utah, clearly
being the "smaller" portion of the States fan base according to BYU
fans, has been the only team from the state of Utah invited to a BCS conference.
Regardless of what Dick Harmon says.Utah's 2 BCS wins are a much
bigger accomplishment than anything BYU has accomplished on the football field
since Ronald Regean was President. Not even debatable.How's that
for "modern history?"
@blutoYou present irrelevant facts, outdated facts to
"prove" your superiority. Why don't you mention the entire history of
the rivalry? Did you forget that Utah owns BYU 55-34-4? Over the past 20 years
Utah leads 12-8, and over the most recent 10 years, Utah is 7-3.All
of your stats are always on the 1980's, and focus on the individual honors by
the BYU players. The last time I checked, football is a team sport. The only
stat that has any relevance is the W as opposed to the L at the end of the
game.And for this year, the Utes again own bragging rights:54-10
JohnInSLCHow about this "modern history":In
the last 6 years:Top 15 FinishesBYU 3Utah 1Conference ChampionshipsBYU 2Utah 110+ Win SeasonsBYU 4Utah 3AP Top 25 FinishesBYU 4Utah 2Head-to-HeadBYU 3Utah 3OverallBYU 55-17Utah 53-18Utah own's the leather helmet era.BYU own's the
Here we go again. Rambling off a semi-impressive list of BYU football
accomplishments.40 years of WAC legacy means nothing outside of Provo.No conference has officially invited you in all that time.
Wow. An article about absolutely nothing because absolutely no news exists on
the subject. Thanks for that, Mr. Harmon.
grandpaJ said:"Hey Jenny83. I was looking around Rice Eccles
the other day for that National Championship banner and I was saying "it
must be around her somewhere. Is it over there? no is it over there? no. I just
couldn't find it anywhere, then I remembered where it was......its in Provo, I
had almost forgot. In answer to your question.......Utah is the little brother,
after you win a National Championship, we can talk about birth order."Interesting you bring that up. I was listening sports radio on the
internet from Oklahoma the other day. They brought up the fact that BYU was a
paper tiger, and would have been beat by any team in the top ten that year. It
was a fraud title, they said. Imagine how you will be treated if you join the
folding Big 12.
Harmon:Too bad there's no meat on that bone. Your vaunted broadcast
partner has seen to that. Blue-toe:There you go again, citing
history from the middle ages, while ignoring ancient and modern history in your
head to head football comparisons.Overall:Utah 55BYU
34Ties 4Last 10 years: Utah 7 (avg victory margin 16.7
pts), BYU 3 (avg victory margin 4 pts) BCS Bowl victories:Utah
2BYU N/ATop 5 finishes:Utah 2BYU 0No.
1 draft picks:Utah 1BYU 0(Yeah, go ahead and pick on Alex
Smith now)Player awards this year:Utah, Nat'l Defensive Player
of the WeekBYU, Nat'l 5 star QB Epic FailBYU is still the
"big brother", eh? As Ducky would say, LOL!
U less than Y"Have you not been paying attention to anything
the last few decades??"In the last 6 decades, since 1962:BYU has won multiple national awards -- a national championship, a
Heisman trophy, multiple Outland, Doak Walker, Davey O'Brien, and Sammy Baugh
awards, 7 National College Hall of Fame inductees, 23 conference championships,
and 17 AP Top 25 finishes.Utah hasn't won a single national award,
only 6 conference championships, and only 5 AP Top 25 finishes.Clearly, BYU is head-and-shoulders the best overall program in the state.Utah has 2004 and 2008... and NOTHING else.BYU has a legacy
program.Utah has a johnny-come-lately program.btw,
Michigan's "overrated" 6-6 team would have destroyed that overrated
8-4 Pittsburgh team Utah played in the Fiesta Bowl. Michigan was a win over Ohio
State from playing in the Rose Bowl in 1984. If not for the silly BCS AQ bid,
Pittsburgh wouldn't have sniffed a BCS bowl.
ContinuedI am not saying that this has much to do with BYU and Utah, but I
do think it may be the reason for what we constantly see from crisb, hedge and
several others here. Their team has everything; Money, membership in one
of the best clubs and invitations to fancy parties. But they just cant get over
the fact that their (perceived)foe does not care(is not jealous). Their foe(who
would gladly accept them as a friend) just moves ahead on their own path and is
perfectly content to accept what they earn. But they are extremely jealous and
even angrier that their foe is not jealous. So they lash out at their foe and
are miserably frustrated because of their foes indifference. Why are you not
happy with your own good fortune their foe says. Because I am of noble
blood(BCS) and you are a commoner(non-BCS) and Im not suppose to want to be
you.I am pretty sure I have it all figured out.
I saw a movie recently that I think explains the comments of the heaviest
trollers we see on all the BYU articles, usually before BYU fans have a chance
to read them.In the movie The count of Monte Cristo, Fernand Mondego has
everything but he is obsessed with jealousy of Edmond Dontess, a second mate on
a ship in which Mondegos father has some ownership interest. They have been
friends since they were young. Mondego got a horse for his birthday but was
furious when Dontess was happier with his much smaller humble gift. Mondego
wanted Dontess fiancé only because he was jealous that she belonged to
Dontess. The kicker is that the fact that Mondego was constantly jealous of
Dontess and Dontess was not jealous of Mondego, drove Mondego crazy. I am
not saying that this has much to do with BYU and Utah, but I do think it may be
the reason for what we constantly see from crisb, hedge and several others here.
@Bluto | 7:29 a.m. Oct. 20, 2011 Have you not been paying attention
to anything the last few decades?? The Y is not even #2 in the state of Utah.
They lost the right of #2 after getting stomped in logan last year, and needing
complete luck to beat the aggies this year at home. Utah St. #2 to Utah, Y #3 to
Utah, and #2 to Utah st.You can start talking pecking order when the
Y has reached let alone won a BCS bowl game. Until then its obvious who the top
dog in the state is. That would be the team that has two undefeated seasons, and
two BCS bowl wins in the last 7 years! I know your going to say 84 nat title,
yes we realize when you were 2 they beat an overrated 6 - 6 Michagan team in the
holiday bowl don't bother replying we know already.
Of course they will get invited. They are the #1 choice for the Pac-10, Big-12,
Big East, you name it. Everyone wants BYU and their global fan base. And their
tradition is nearly unmatched. Any conference would be lucky to have them.Of course the truth based on facts that have already happened don't
match BYU's self indulsion. Here's who has been looked at before BYU:Pac-10. Texas, OU, CU, Utah, OSU, TT, anyone from the Big-12.Big-12.
TCU, Louisville, WVU, etc.Any other BCS conference, BY Who?Time for Cougar fans to face the facts. The only conferences that have openly
"clamored" for BYU and their history, tradition, fan base in South
America, HDTV truck, have been 1)MWC, 2)WAC and 3)WCC.That's the
company BYU should keep. It's where they belong.
I've looked at BYU's 2013 football schedule. If this is an indication of home
schedules to come that is a good sign after just two seasons of Independence.While I'm tired of reading Deseret News articles on the Big 12, I'm glad
this garbage is dragging out and hope it continues for another year while
Missouri figures out what their options are (I say figures out because both the
Big 10 and SEC currently do not want them). This will give BYU more
time to work on Independent scheduling as well as basketball scheduling to
figure out if the current arrangement is viable longer term.
Jimmer 47 points HA HA !Jimmer 40-footer on National T.V. every night for
an entire month HA HA !
I wonder if Tom Holmoe is going to take that sweater with him to the Big 12?
The Big 12 is no more stable today than it was 2 months ago.BYU
would lose exposure (be on TV less) and recruiting would drop off (no more
national footprint). If they go to the Big 12, it's only for the money.
@grandpajYou will not find a banner denoting BYU's National
Championship.Banners are for wannabees. (see Utah's
"tattered" Fiesta and Sugar bowl banners)At BYU's Legacy
Hall You will however, find 5 finely crafted N.C. trophies.The
Coaches Waterford Crystal Ball & UPI TrophiesThe APThe Walter
Camp andThe MaCarthur TrophyThere are only 4 NCAA sanctioned
polls for the NCAA D-1 Football Championship.(Coaches, Writers, NFF,
FWAA)Only 19 programs of the 120 D-1 teams have ever won all of them
in the same year.BYU is one of those teams. Utah fans,
when you have equalled these achievements, which BYU took 40 years to do, then
you can talk Big Brother smack, until then, that's just your delusion.
My concern is that we all know what is the desire of Missouri, TCU, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Boise St., West Virginia....etc.It didn't work out
for all but it did great for others.I just didn't see the presentation
from BYU. It's like trying to bid for the Olympics without telling
anyone in case you don't get selected.
The trouble with independence is now BYU has something to lose if they go to a
big conference. They are not in the position to dictate terms and there are
plenty of other schools with fewer demands and more to offer. Meanwhile BYU's
fans are threatening to storm the Bastille if Tom Holmoe can't find a way to
match Utah's deal and make it happen anyway. What's an Athletic Director to do?
The answer is clear. Hold a press conference and be vague.
Mizzou is going to the SEC, according to the NY Times.New Big 12
North Division:KansasKansas StateIowa StateBYULouisvilleWest VirginiaGood exposure across the nation and a
realistic chance for BYU to get to the Big 12 championship game, plus a lot more
money than the Pac 12 or independence. Worth the wait!
AQ = euphemism for BCS. BCS used to have a dirty connotation in the state of
Utah and now it's considered the big prize. Even our Utah attorney general has
backed off on his attempts to bring an antitrust lawsuit against the BCS, which
we all used to think of as "the great and spacious building." Funny
how a principle reflects differently with a new angle of vision...Does anyone else think this is ironic? Was all our previous anti-BCS rhetoric
just jealous huffing and puffing?
Right. This coming from the guy who wrote that Kyle Whittingham would be the
coach at BYU. Does anyone know if Mr. Harmon is a Cougar Club member?
@Jennyu83Oklahoma St. has beaten Texas 2 straight years. It doesn't
matter. Guess what? Okie St. will not only always be Oklahoma's little
brother but Texas' distant little Cousin as well.Utah is #2 to BYU
as Michigan St. is to Michigan, as Wazzu is to Washington, as Oregon St. is to
Oregon, as Auburn is to Alabama, as Indiana is to Notre Dame, as Tulane is to
LSU.....Capiche?It's not about a snapshot in time. Utah's entire
Football legacy is 6 years old. From 1957 to 2000, Utah never won an outright
Conference Championship in Football.In that same period and up to
the present BYU/Players has had or won...1 Consensus National
Championship23 Conference Championships1 Heisman Memorial Trophy2 Outland Trophies4 Davey O'Brien Trophies7 Sammy Baugh
TrophiesA Doak Walker Trophy15 Consensus All-Americans60+
All-Americans7 College Hall of Famers5th winningest Coach in NCAA
Football History2 NFL MVP'sA Super Bowl MVP2 Super Bowl
winning QB's148 NFL playersThis is how a Brand and Legacy are
established. Not6Years! In this State and Region, only BYU has the
Brand and Title of Big Brother.
This is nothing more than another act or talk of it involving one thing and one
thing only, completely forsaking fans financial abilities to attend away games 5
or 6 times a year and it's called "GREED"! Go ahead, go for the
bigtime gusto leaving local fans of sporting events with their only option
because of travel costs, ticket costs ect, and that would be to become couch
potato's watching from afar! Isn't the old greenback and the quest for it great?
Isn't that what has lead to the demise of our great country? Oh well the
"instant gratification" generation bus rolls on. This new high tech
world sure gives one a warm fuzzy feeling doesn't it? Oh well my days are
numbered and I thank god I was born when I was (1940) and don't have to deal
with the future too much longer, particuarly as an involved fan. Go for it
"wonderful ones" join the rat race!
Dick, I appreciate your opinion, you have access to more valid information than
the lions share of the rest of us. I too have been contemplating this issue, yet
my opinion tends to drift another direction. In the BYU Aims is a statement that
reflects a major part of why BYU is supported and who really pays the bills, it
states it is ever more important that those who are admitted use their talents
to build the kingdom of God on the earth. Furthermore, the most important and
vital goal or aspect of this university is to "to assist individuals in
their quest for perfection and eternal life." BYU is owned and operated by
the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The large majority of resource
support, including financial for BYU, is church tithing dollars. Tithing is
sacred. Therefore, I surmise that given these aims, the primary purpose for any
BYU auxiliary program is to exemplify standards of the church and promote the
influence of its teachings. So, BYU with its BYUtv in place will stay
independent, which provides the autonomy for a wider audience and exemplify the
churchs beliefs, supported by sacred funding.
I think that BYU is missing the boat looking at the Big 12. It is a league with
one big bully that has a average football team at best, and 8 other schools with
buised egos some of which BYU would have difficulty week in and week out
competing with in either football or basketball. I think the real opportunity
is the Big East-still a BCS AQ status conference. With Air Force and BSU in
play with conference a little creativity, while protecting the Y brand could
provide a western division with 6 teams in an eastern conference and 6 in the
western conference and agressively pursuing top teams from the ACC, SEC, Big 10
and maybe even the PAC-12 to join to grow it to 12. The Big East even though
its caliber of teams is only competitive with the MWC-note the former MWC member
Utah 0-3 in PAC-12 play dominated Pittsburgh a title contender in the Big East,
dominates media because it is the East media market's league, and favored by
BYU's media partner. It is a great opportunity to take advantage of TCU's
Another non-story about BYU and the Big 12 (though I did learn that being a
lawyer or an MD certifies that you understand football)
Dick, didn't you write this story, last wee? The week before that? Three weeks
ago? Maybe even again four weeks ago? Must be a slow news day.News
flash: The Y won't be joining the Big XII minus three. There's no need, they
already have a Texas with it's own unique demands why would they want another?
Hey Jenny83. I was looking around Rice Eccles the other day for that National
Championship banner and I was saying "it must be around her somewhere. Is
it over there? no is it over there? no. I just couldn't find it anywhere, then
I remembered where it was......its in Provo, I had almost forgot. In answer to
your question.......Utah is the little brother, after you win a National
Championship, we can talk about birth order.
Utes win 7- 10 games in LES and destroy the Y by 44 points this year. Who's the
54 - 10 ha ha
Things you will NOT see in a BYU BIG 12 Agreement1. You need to
prove yourself for 3 years. If we do not feel you have proved yourself you can
be kicked out immediately2. You will be the only BCS conferance team in
history to play all your games for NO PAY during your first year in the
conferance.3. You incur all the shared expenses of other teams during the
first and all other years during your probation.4. You will be the only
BCS Conferance team in history to only receive a 50% share during the second
year of play.5. You will receive a thank you for playing a key part in
enabling our conferance to obtain a 3 billion tv deal.6. You will keep
your mouths shut when the conferance promotes itself as being an equal sharing
fan32"BYU is now irrelevant to Utah"Which of
course explains why every single BYU article is inundated with Utah
naysayers.Face it, BYU is still the most important game on Utah's
schedule. Utah fans would rather be perennial cellar dwellers in the PAC 12,
than to be prerennial losers to BYU.
I couldn't imagine commenting on every Utah story that appears online, heck I
don't even read them. It's pretty flattering to have so many Ute fans put forth
so much effort here. Good job to you naysayers one and all! Little brother
syndrome is alive and well in Uteville!
All this utah talk is foolish- utah will be lucky to get back to the Vegas
bowl...let alone any bowl this year!BYU's issue comes down to one word:SundayIt will be hard to accommodate some of BYU's unique requests-
Those saying it will never happen because of Sunday play and broadcasting rights
obviously didn't listen to Tom Holmoe's comments last week.
Additional comments re Missou: Big 12, don't let the tail wag the dog! You
need to stand up .to Missou and not let them push you around
Dick had absolutely nothing to say. That article was a complete waste of time.
Dick, Holmoe broke silence because he had to. Fans were about to tar and feather
him. If BYU was going to the big 12, why did they just book wash. State? We know that the reason for booking Boise State for the next 30 years was
because BYU is now irrelevant to Utah and Boise State is our new rival.
Independence may be with us for a while. Hope they can keep LES full. They would
be expanding LES if we got into the big12.
I am wondering who Missou is delaying their decision as to whether or not to
exit the Big 12. At least it seems to me they are. Do you all think maybe they
have nowhere else to go - that maybe they have not been accepted by any of the
other conferences? Or maybe they are trying to fake the Big 12 into relieving
them of the exit fee by delaying their decision - it that possible? If I were
the Big 12, I would go ahead and make my decision and make invites to that team
or those teams they want to add, and then tell Missou they are the last man out
- they lose out on a travel partner, they get the leftovers on all decisions
made by the league with regards to the teams in the league.
Well, I think Mr. Harmon's opinion is simply that - an opinion. And just like
noses, everybody has one.And as far as his comment that BYU was
misled by people at the MWC, I don't know. I am sure, however, that BYU
supporters ought to be a little careful about pointing fingers since their
school administrators were not completely spotless in regards to some of the
behind-the-scenes efforts before BYU declared independence. Those efforts, if
successful, would almost certainly have led to the complete implosion of the
Mountain West Conference.
All these jealous trolls suddenly popping up in Big 12 country are hillarious.
They must really be clueless if they think anybody is going to buy their act
when they're spewing the exact same talking points our little brothers on the
hill have been spouting for months. Panic is once again setting in as BYU's
imminent invitation to the Big 12 approaches.
Being invited has nothing to do with it. Its whether they have given off a bunch
of negative vibes that tells the Big 12 they arent that interested. In truth, especially in the south division, I am not sure BYU can compete in
the Big 12. Plus, the other teams there dont have as many BYU fans in their
areas so it is not as appealing to BYU as the Pac 12 would have been. The west
coast recruiting wouldnt be helped. Another reason why BYU fans
worried is because they dont know if BYU AD wants BYU sports to go to the next
level. Is image more important than compitition? Also, constant losing could
get pretty old. Perhaps this will drag out another 2 years and then
the BIG 12 will go to 12 teams again. BY then, BYU will know how the Independant
thing is working. They want that time to see how it goes.
Chris B. is a "wolf (cougar fan)" in "sheep (ute fan)"
clothing.Mark it down.....
@ ChrisB"No. No one wants you. Get used to it. Weak program getting
worse every year. Get used to fighting weber for recruits."I was
beginning to wonder if you'd ever come trolling BYU articles again. I guess the
recent Pac 12 failures put you into hiding and the Pitt win brought you back?
Anyways, it'll be interesting to see how the Big 12 shapes up when or if BYU is
Dick has a 50/50 chance of getting it right, so a pretty bold prediction
considering the odds...
Do you folks think, like I do, that these trolls come on these BYU articles just
so they can see their names in print? Maybe that gives them some power. They
must lack self-esteem. I think that is the answer, so let's not respond to them
- let's ignore them completely. If no one responds, we will not hear from them
again. They like to see the responses their blogs bring!
Why focus on teams that don't face each other this season when on October 29th
the 2-5 Beavers make their way to SLC for the chance to go .500 against Utah
schools? Why focus on what isn't happening rather than what is? I mean really
folks..... Apples and apples not apples and oranges.... GO BEAVERS!
Actually Big XII great Pac-12 just a step above the Big East.
Dick Harmon says BYU is going to the Big-XII.Tom Holmoe says they've
not been invited.Slow week for news, I guess.
@statman, did BYU schedule Montana St.? They gave Utah a better challenge than
BYU did. It is great that BYU is trying to upgrade their schedule. I think that
Montana St. annually destroys BYU's bowl-bound Idaho St. squad that they are
playing this Saturday.
Chris B: When it happens, what are you going to say, then? I will never, ever
respond to another one of your blogs after that day, & I will encourage
anyone and everyone to never respond to you either. Not just you, but the rest
of you Ute trolls that seem to have nothing better to do than to sit on these
BYU articles and spew your negativity.
Comments? Montana State.
@txusmcret1493, I totally agree with everything you stated, except that BYU
doesn't deserve anything. They are a struggling football program that has done
ZERO on the national stage in nearly 30 years, like their basketball program
that hasn't EVER done anything of note EVER. 1984 created the BCS that we know
today. That debacle last century was too bad and quite a shocker in the minds of
many millions of sports fans. BYU will remain alone, as you stated sir.
Move along Cougar apologists. Focus on the tough game this weekend with the
mighty ISU Bengals! I think this game will come down to who has the best water
boys and equipment managers. Any thoughts?
SLC BYU Fan said:"The Big 12 presidents/chancellors 4 years ago made
a decision to change the championship finale of their league basketball toruney
to Saturday knowing it could come to BYU replacing Colorado in the league
line-up. They have the data to back up it's been a great choice thus far, but
FOX TV Sports wouldn't listen and blocked the BYU application a couple of weeks
ago in favor of TCU.Missouri to the SEC when they really want the
Big Ten? Don't bet on either."FOX Sports has a seat on the BIG
12 board of regents? Whatever. You are giving them more authority than they
Whatever to that guy whose name gets to much air time. But one thing
is for sure if you are a fan of the State of Utah you would love for BYU to be
in the BIg 12 so that you had a constant flow of guests leaving money here from
Texas and California (plus the other States). And once both schools
have more clout they can demand the same deal USC has with Notre Dame and play
the Big Game in November were it belongs. Lets face it folks we
really do love to "hate" each other and I for one already miss not
having the Utah game still pending. (and I mean "hate"in a sports way
so no comments please about how we don't hate anyone - that just shows how lame
you are) I can wait but I sure would love to get this behind us -
but I agree do it right or don't do it at all.
No way BYU is getting into the Big 12. I know the bias' in the southwest because
I live in Texas. Holmoe is trying to save his shirt and the Utahman, Dr.Samuelson. As much as I would like for BYU to be in an AQ conference and as
much as BYU deserves to be in an AQ conference on merit, there is too much going
against them, including biasis against the LDS Church, Sunday play and the BYU
I've been excited about this topic for the past few months, checking the news
daily to see if things are going to happen. However, as a huge BYU fan, I don't
see this thing coming our way. I'm gearing up for a long history as an
Independent school. Let's be honest, that is just who we are. We're different
and we kind of like floating alone on things. Would I love to be in the Big 12?
YES!!! However, I just don't think it will happen any more.
Chris B,I understand your worry about BYU and going to the Big 12...BYU = Never loosing a recruit to the utes that they want.Better
conference than the pac 12.Longer nights curled up on moms kitchen floor
sobbing.More "mark it down" worthless predictions.Another
several years with nothing else to do but post on BYU articles.Heres
to another 20 years + Chris..lol
Jeff in NormanDude, proof read your posts before submitting them. I
can't understand you.
I don't care where BYU goes. just hurry up and decide what you want to do. chris
b...why do you always have to comment on byu's articles.
Jeff in Norman,I think we know who will have the Tantrum, should
BYU go to the Big 12.
everyone seems to be running away from the big 12 colorado, nebraska last
yeartexas a&m and now missouri. oklahoma and oklahoma state looked at
leaving and byu fans think this will be the greatest thing for their athletics
programs as they have been waiting weeks for an invite
@Chris BWhat's the point of going to an AQ conference if you can't
even win a game in that conference?
I don't have any sources and I say that BYU is out of the Big-12 expansion
picture. See how easy that is was. This coming from a reporter who had a
tantrum on national television when BYU was invited by the PAC-10. I wonder how
much bigger the tantrum will get if BYU happens to not get an Big-12 invite and
is asked to speak on national television again.
The Big 12 presidents/chancellors 4 years ago made a decision to change the
championship finale of their league basketball toruney to Saturday knowing it
could come to BYU replacing Colorado in the league line-up. They have the data
to back up it's been a great choice thus far, but FOX TV Sports wouldn't listen
and blocked the BYU application a couple of weeks ago in favor of TCU.Missouri to the SEC when they really want the Big Ten? Don't bet on either.
Chris B gets an F-When The most trusted reporter in BYU history
speaks Charles Schwab listens.
Sorry Chris but your namesake won't be demanding the 2 for 1 game deals both BYU
and Utah can demand from Utah State for scheduling. And even Utah State might
not be getting any visits from their bigger brothers in Salt Lake and Provo
after 2014 when your Ute's are under contract to play in Logan one last time.
The rivalry might go into hiatus for 5-6 years as both schools get used to their
BCS league environments...but it will be back as a Pac 12/Big 12 showdown which
will add a new dimension to it that all the fans on both sides will back up and
enjoy.The State of Utah will be the crossroads of two great BCS
leagues in college football sooner than you think, and BOTH Utah and BYfanssn
will be the winners in league realignment!
Enough BYU Big 12 chit chat............"Show me the money!"
There may not have been a formal offer, but they were definitely negotiatingand
the Big 12 was definitely interested. Something scared the Big 12 off in those
discussions. Holmoe is keeping mum so as to not risk future negotiations. But
I'm afraid that ship has sailed. There won't be an offer, IMO; it has to do with
broadcasting rights and Sunday play. The broadcasting network for the Big 12
don't want to have to deal with the baggage BYU brings. I truly, truly hope I'm
Harmon's partly right. BYU will end up in the Big 12, but only if Missouri's
rumored move to the SEC occurs. TCU was invited in part to try to keep Mizzou
in, and the agreement about equal revenue sharing was also a ploy to keep
Missouri and the other schools with wanderlust in the fold.Some
schools in the Big 12 are not too eager to invite BYU for reasons that have
nothing to do with either business or the quality of athletic programs. But if
Mizzou leaves the remaining schools in the Big 12 will go with the best option
available and that is BYU. If Missouri stays, it's anybody's guess whether BYU
will be invited.
Chris B I suggest you have a little warm milk and some cookies and try and get
excited about your Utes having any kind of chance to go bowling, outside of a
party at Rancho Lanes in December.
Oh Chris B... get a life. Getting nervous about BYU going to the Big 12.It's alright, little brother. We'll still play you. We won't pretend to
be too good for you now like you've tried to do to us.There, there
Always the classless little brother, Chris B. is once again so eager to post on
a BYU-related article.Nice to see you didn't disappoint, Chrissy....
Tom Holmoe's senior year at BYU was 1982, not 1984. Friendly fact check.
Great article, thanks!
No. No one wants you. Get used to it. Weak program getting worse every year. Get
used to fighting weber for recruits.