Readers' forum: Christian characteristics


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  • OnlytheCross Bakersfield, CA
    Oct. 19, 2011 3:38 p.m.

    Big Rich, Orem Utah:

    I agree that the Lord's position is filled. And that's why evangelicals call LDS the very same, identical, word-for-word adjective that Joseph Smith did. The only difference here is that any non-LDS who quotes those Mormon prophet's statements, right out of your own official Church books, cannot get them posted here. I've tried. I've been nice, academic, civil, but honest. And- zero. No such honesty is allowed. It's like the Berlin Wall.

    I have tried to help each side understand what Joseph Smith meant when he called all of Christianity an "abomination", all their creeds wrong, and their Bible "corrupt". I turned 60 this year and half of my life was Mormon, so I know exactly what was taught znd what I taught (the list is long) in every church position I held. Not to mention 4 years of seminary, 3 of Institute classes, 2 at BYU, and another 14 years of temple-worthy activity and teaching.

    I receive no respect here solely because I am a former Mormon. I am not "anti-Mormon" or full of hate, as has been alleged about evangelicals. I will not lie about Mormonism's past.

  • WestGranger West Valley City, Utah
    Oct. 18, 2011 8:45 p.m.

    There are aspects of true Christianity within both major political parties. What matters is how well you apply your moral/ethical principles. Organized religion is generally a place where at least high principles are taught and people are admonished to live good lives. However, it is up to the individual to live up to high moral principles, regardless of their religious, human secularist or, atheistic beliefs.Too many people point fingers instead of looking in the mirror, the action that can actually leads to significant changes for the better.

  • BigRich Orem, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 5:24 p.m.

    When asked if Mormons were Christians, the Reverend Billy Graham said that it wasn't his place to decide, it was God's. We can all have our opinion, but in the end, the only one I care about is the Lord's. Anyone who tries to assume his position is a pipsqueak.

  • IndependentLiberal Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 3:05 p.m.

    LDS Liberal

    BTW - The Pharisees were the ultra-Conservatives 2,000 years ago.

    Actually it was the Sadducees that were the true aristocratic ultra-Conservatives 2,000 years ago.
    But I see your point!

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 11:12 a.m.

    @Owl: LDS Liberal speaks the truth, if you don't agree you call it whining.

  • Owl Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 11:07 a.m.

    LDS Liberal | 2:44 p.m. Oct. 16, 2011
    Farmington, UT

    If there was ever an example of whining, read the post from LDS Liberal.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 10:09 a.m.

    Would LDS ever vote for an atheist candidate even if that candidate had a platform they agreed with on every issue?
    I doubt it.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 9:59 a.m.

    Gildas | 9:36 a.m. Oct. 17, 2011
    Jesus does not at all fit in with today's idea of being a Christian.

    ...I wish that liberals would read his words - ALL of them I mean.


    I did, that's what made me a Liberal.

    BTW - The Pharisees were the ultra-Conservatives 2,000 years ago.
    The more things change, the more they stay the same.

  • Cora Smith BOUNTIFUL, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 9:36 a.m.

    higv. Attitudes like the one's you bring to this table are the reason for division. Most people don't worry about if Jesus and Satan will be shaking hands. Most people want leaders that will do the best for all of our citizens regardless of religious or non religious ideas. Religion does not belong in American politics. I will tend to my religious beliefs and my morals and my God, but I wont stand on a soap box to proclaim things that have no basis in reality for many Americans. They don't want to here it. I don't care what religion anybody belongs to, I will vote on the persons ideas for America.
    Some of the curent crop of republicans ware their religion on their shirt. I wont be voting for them.

  • Gildas LOGAN, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 9:36 a.m.

    Jesus does not at all fit in with today's idea of being a Christian.

    His statements about only coming to the House of Israel, no the Gentiles, not giving that which is holy to dogs etc I am sure that he would have riled up today's liberals who try and define Christ for us.

    Yes he did turn the other cheek but he also cleansed the temple twice and called the Pharisees many choice apposite names, labelling them (Oh How could He!!) hypocrites, blind leaders of the blind, a generation of vipers etc. He even referreds to his main man, Peter, as "Satan". How on earth did poor Peter get over that one? Oh that's right he was not one of us pc clones.
    The people themselves he called an unbelieving and adulterous generation. I wish that liberals would read his words - ALL of them I mean. Conservatives would also have some of their beliefs challenged in doing so. He transcends all our philosophies, ALL of them.

  • Lane Myer Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 9:35 a.m.


    What I believe about Jesus must be different than what you were taught. The Jesus I was taught about loved everyone - including Jesus. I feel that he would not only shake his hand, but would give him a big hug! It is Satan that would turn away - not Jesus.

    Jesus does not like what Satan does, but he still loves him as a brother.

    What were you taught?

  • camotim Council Bluffs, IA
    Oct. 17, 2011 9:27 a.m.

    I happen to find that many people who are Christians do not always act in a Christian way. To see one of these people I need not go any further than the mirror in this LDS House. I have enough problems in my life that judging others Christian fidelity is not something in my pay scale.

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    Oct. 16, 2011 3:28 p.m.

    Jesus said I am the way the truth and the light no one comes to the father except by me. Is that narrowmindedness on his part? IF Jesus himself says something than ask him if it is true. How do people know what Jesus would do without asking the only source of truth.

    Thing is the Lords house is a house of order and not confusion so he will not tell one person baptism is essential and another it is not. Or one person needs to keep these commandments and another person doesn't.

    WE can be civil to people that don't worship like us. Invite them but don't persecute them. However truth is independent of what people choose to believe. You can't change truth by not beleiving it.

    Jesus and Satan will not shake hands. If everyone chose to find out the will of the FAther and Son and choose to beleive it everyway this world would be a great place. Including the ordinances he asks us to participate in by the proper authority. We cannot however do what Jesus says without offending the Devil. Impossible.

  • Demosthenes Rexburg, ID
    Oct. 16, 2011 2:55 p.m.

    A big "AMEN!"

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Oct. 16, 2011 2:44 p.m.

    From all the hyper-sensitive whining I've been reading from some LDS members over the last few days - I'd have to agree, some Mormons are not very Christian at all.

    Showing Christian characteristics means showing ALL of them.

    For example -- Jesus also said, "Turn the other cheek." & "Bless them that curse you".

    So - Ask youself -- WWJD?

    If you are a true Christian - then stop your whining and get over it.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 16, 2011 1:16 p.m.

    Rifleman, how is it that people who have non-Christian religious beliefs, or no religious beliefs at all, still love, honor and care for their parents and their children? What makes you think it's necessary for a person to share your particular religious beliefs in order for them to be a good and loving person?

    Higv, you're saying that people who disagree with your religious views - which conveniently encompass your political views - are under the influence of Satan. Really? How can you engage in a meaningful adult discussion with people who have different religious and political opinions with that idea in your head?

    Isn't this whole "God is on my side, not yours," attitude the very problem Mr. Larsen's letter identifies?

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 16, 2011 11:21 a.m.

    What would Jesus do? He certainly wouldn't rob Peter to pay Paul. He's suggest that people get married before having children, and he'd suggest that fathers live in the same house with their wives and provide financial support for the children they helped create.

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    Oct. 16, 2011 9:56 a.m.

    People use what would Jesus do all the time to justify any position they take wether he would or not. Of course he is kind to people. He does punish sinners who don[t repent. Wants us to willingly help people.

    It is not organized religion that causes problems. Since the days of Adam Satan said beleive it not and people beleived it not. He himself said no one comes to the father but by me. It is people not believing what he says that causes problems. True religion does not persecute. Listening to the one that says believe it not. Not religion.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 16, 2011 9:09 a.m.

    Mr. Larsen makes some important points. I hope readers will process them carefully and dig a little deeper into this rich vein of thought.

    Where human beings are concerned, which is more important - the label, or the contents?

    Is claiming to be Christian a guarantee that you are honorable, caring, just, charitable and thoughtful?

    Is being honorable, caring, just, charitable and thoughtful a guarantee that you will be called a Christian?

    A moment's thought makes it clear that the answer to both questions is "no."

    If the religious labels you carry with you and apply to others are not useful in predicting those behaviors that are most important to us as citizens of this great nation, why then are we expending so much energy on this pointless and divisive issue of a person's religious labeling?

    Thus the wisdom of the constitutional prohibition of religious tests for public office.

    Shame on those who use a candidate's religion, including the lack thereof, as a basis for praise or attack.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Oct. 16, 2011 8:29 a.m.

    And Clark if you know people who don't attend any church, and don't profess any religious beliefs who none the less are still very kind and considerate, they would probably appreciate it if you wouldn't call them christians.

  • EJM Herriman, UT
    Oct. 16, 2011 8:09 a.m.

    Great letter and on the money. So why is it then that people still use religion to do the opposite? I still don't understand.

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    Oct. 16, 2011 8:07 a.m.

    Of course Jesus was kind to everyone. Did chastise people that needed chastised as well. But I don't think he lost his temper to speak. But Jesus was aslo baptized by proper authority, A man of prayer, observed the sabbath and did the will of the father totally.

    Joseph Fielding McConkie in a book he wrote told of someone that said his Uncle was the Most Christian man he meant. But realized though generous his life did not resemble Christ very much in quiet a few ways. Of Course Christ is generous. But being a true follower of Christ requires more than kindness. It is thinking what he thinks doing everything he asks us to do.

    We do not persecute people who think diffrently than us. Treat them with dignity. But a true follower of Christ does the will of Christ totally.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Oct. 16, 2011 6:07 a.m.

    You are right, but the trappings of organized religion make this virtually impossible. Churches say they are the true ones, and the competition for business is keen.