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What others say: Religious bigotry

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  • BobP Port Alice, B.C.
    Oct. 15, 2011 12:24 p.m.

    Obama alienated the GOP with his hardline of forcing Obamacare through. It cam back to bite him.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 15, 2011 11:54 a.m.

    Is religious bigotry any different the equal rights bigotry?

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Oct. 15, 2011 7:53 a.m.

    We carry on no end about porn, but it's religion that's ruining our country.

  • Fact Check Pleasant Grove, UT
    Oct. 15, 2011 2:06 a.m.

    @CougarBlue

    The House passed a budget on Feb 19, 2011, in a 238-189 vote. The Senate has not produced a budget in over two years.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 11:43 p.m.

    lost in DC | 7:38 a.m. Oct. 14, 2011
    West Jordan, UT
    Gee, even the LA Times says "Twenty-seven percent of Democrats said they wouldn't support a Mormon for president, compared with 20 percent for Republicans"

    I thought dems were supposed to be more tolerant and open-minded. I've always known that was not true.

    ======================

    H-E-L-L-O,
    "Democrats" elected Republican Mitt Romney as Governor of Massachucetts.
    And Harry Reid is the highest ranking Mormon in America today....Thanks to those very same sort of Democrats.

    Proves once and for all that polls mean nothing.

    Yes, Democrats ARE more tolerant and open-minded.
    Certainly much, Much more the Republicans are being to one of their own.

    So, I guess you're still wrong.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 10:37 p.m.

    I'm curious....

    Just How many of the "Religion Doesn't matter" folks actually supported New York City Muslims seeking to build a cultural center?

    Did you stand up against Religous Bigoty and Intolerance then?

    As I very clearly recall -- NO, you did not. You were part of the persecutors. Now, it's a different story.

  • Hellooo Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 10:15 p.m.

    Romney will not be elected, but it will not be because of his religious beliefs. Rather it will be his inability to generate any passion for his vision or ideas for America. Listening and watching this candidate is about as inspiring as watching a card board cut out being held up as a sign.

  • Phranc SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 9:04 p.m.

    where in the world did you get that from George's post tom?

  • Tom in CA Vallejo, CA
    Oct. 14, 2011 8:29 p.m.

    aghast:

    So how poor does one have to be to meet your threshold of "worthiness" and earn your vote??

    By default, then, you believe Obama is connected to the "90%" and therefore, will deserve your vote. Do I have that right?

    George (Bronx NY): Are you saying Romney should go around thumping on his Book of Mormon? And I like how you describe him as "right wing".

    Romney/Rubio 2012

  • ksmith Sacramento, CA
    Oct. 14, 2011 8:19 p.m.

    I vote for someone with high standards and values, ie. honesty, morality, NOT on someones religious beliefs.

  • Ranch HUNTSVILLE, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 5:09 p.m.

    His "values" include discriminating against GLBT Americans.

    They also include corporate consolidation and downsizing (i.e., laying off 1000's of employees - some "job creator, eh?).

    Two distinct reasons NOT to vote for Romney.

  • George Bronx, NY
    Oct. 14, 2011 4:52 p.m.

    well you pretty much answered that question in the negative didn't you Tom?

    Do you really think Romney is not openly mormon? Do you remember what happened to Huntsman on these threads when he would not declare to the world he was mormon? I have to wonder if we would be having this same conversation if Huntsman was the front runner and not Romney, past threads indicate we would not.

    Should Romney's religion matter? absolutely not, Romney's religion makes no difference to me but his right wing politics do.

  • aghast SYRACUSE, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 4:43 p.m.

    Sorry, I am not going to vote for Romney, or Huntsman, based on two criteria. The first is that they are both dis-connected with 90% of the citizens in this country by one factor - wealth. They were both born with those "silver spoons" and have never worked for anything in their lives. My second criteria is because they are "Mormon" as am I, and I am not confident in their character as being rich to uphold the values of the church that I hold dear, in fact I am afraid that if either is elected, their faults will become the church's and not their own.

  • Tom in CA Vallejo, CA
    Oct. 14, 2011 4:35 p.m.

    "Would mormon voters support an openly gay candidate?"

    Why do we have to be "openly anything"?? If one is gay, why not just shut up about it, and go about your business.

    If you are gay, so what, I don't care.

    Romney is not "openly Mormon", i.e., he doesn't go around announcing his religion. He is quiet about it, unless someone else wants to harp about it.

  • Phranc SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 4:21 p.m.

    let me ask you this lost in DC, how do you feel about huntsman (also LDS)? Even though we do not see eye to eye I actually have a great deal of respect for him as a statesman and would actually consider voting for him given the chance.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 4:20 p.m.

    RE: David King "This is more about religion than we would like to admit. " In the United States almost everything is about religion.

  • CougarBlue Heber City, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 4:07 p.m.

    Dear Well Read. No he doesn't pass bills, but he signs them and his party his party never did submit a budget for Congress to pass, therefore they keep passing these stop gap measures. The Republicans are to blame for not doing this since they regained the House.

    He, President Obama, can enforce the law and his stance on illegal aliens borders on being a traitor. Telling his border agents to not jail them unless they are criminals. Apparently in his eyes being illegal is not a criminal act. He also needs to fire Gaitner who is doing his policy bidding and putting us further into the red. His attorney General lied to congress and he should fire him.

    He can set the tone and his continue pointing the finger at others is setting a negative tone. Instead of asking both side to work together he points out that Republicans are stumbling blocks, ignoring those in his party who are resistant to his demands.

  • DSB Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 3:39 p.m.

    Since Mormons have voted in national elections for over a century, it's fair to say Mormons are open to voting for qualified candidates of any religion. I don't think any candidate has been bold enough to stand by a commitment to atheism, to a non-Christian religion, or to homosexuality, so it's pure assumption and self-righteous elitism that causes anyone, such as 10cc, to imply that Mormons are too close-minded to vote for anyone except those of the perceived club 10cc thinks we desperately want to join.

    But, I'll take your bait and give you an honest answer. I wouldn't vote for anyone who lacked the humility to acknowledge a higher power that might be invoked for the blessings of divine providence on our nation. I think that's a pretty large circle, but of course would exclude an atheist, for me.

    That's my religious test, and despite the ridiculously ignorant claim that my having a personal religious test represents a trampling of the constitution, I have every right to vote according to any motivation I see fit - atheists have every constitutional right to run for President. I just wouldn't vote for one, and that's my right.

  • Phranc SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 3:24 p.m.

    The day an LDS politicians stands up and supports the issues important to me such as LGBT rights, a women's right to choose, ending the tax cuts for the rich, regulating commerce etc... I will vote for them in a heart beat, the problem is the second they do you will claim that they are not really a mormon (reference your comments above about bush being a lib). so you tell me whose really biased?

  • Kalindra Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 14, 2011 3:17 p.m.

    @lost in DC

    As the article states it is unclear how many people would not vote for a mormon because they believe they are a cult or for other reasons. I suppose it never occurred to you that democrats maybe less willing to vote for a mormon because the mormon church and the ht mormon politicians tend to aline them selfs with the far right when it comes to issues that democrats find important? it seems the argument I keep hearing from Romney supporters is that people should vote for Romney based on his stance on the issues and now you are trying to tell us that democrats intolerant if they vote based on the issues if he is a mormon which is it?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 1:02 p.m.

    @lost in DC
    "the gallop poll you cite does not refute the fact that more dems will not support a mormon than repubs - it may explain it, but it still shows dems are more biased against mormons than repubs"

    Thankfully I was only trying to explain where some of it may be coming from rather than refuting the fact. It seems to me that Democrats disagree with Mormons on a more political level. For instance, a liberal agnostic friend of mine from California went from having a neutral view of the church to having a very negative view of it after Prop 8. Now she might be running conformancy tests on LDS candidates where she'd need to know if they would automatically conform to any position from salt lake on issues like gay marriage if the church were to get involved on such an issue since there's now precedent. Harry Reid disagreed with church involvement and his fireside was then protested into cancellation. Others call for his excommunication. Republicans seem to disagree with Mormons on a religious level (Mormons are very conservative on average so unwillingness to vote for Mormons is probably not based on political issues).

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 12:47 p.m.

    atl 134,
    the gallop poll you cite does not refute the fact that more dems will not support a mormon than repubs - it may explain it, but it still shows dems are more biased against mormons than repubs

    ECR
    the support numbers you post should not surprise anyone - bush was not conservative, so he would be more likely to garner dem support and BO was the most liberal senator when he was in the senate and he has not moved at all to the center, so of course he will garner very little repub support.

    The fact BO garners very little repub suport is a good thing because the vast majority of BO's policies and his objectives are destructive to the American way of life. I'm GLAD the repubs are trying to obstruct BO destructive policies.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 12:45 p.m.

    atl 134,
    the gallop poll you cite does not refute the fact that more dems will not support a mormon than repubs - it may explain it, but it still shows dems are more biased against mormons than repubs

    ECR
    the support numbers you post should not surprise anyone - bush was not conservative, so he would be more likely to garner dem support and BO was the most liberal senator when he was in the senate and he has not moved at all to the center, so of course he will garner very little repub support.

    The fact BO garners very little repub suport is a good thing because the vast majority of BO's policies and his objectives are destructive to the American way of life. I'm GLAD the repubs are trying to obstruct BO destructive policies.

  • I see nothing! Casa Grande, AZ
    Oct. 14, 2011 12:20 p.m.

    Yes, why are religious people so bigoted towards others? Would mormon voters support an openly gay candidate? Or would they say thier religion keeps them from doing that?

    I think we know the answer.

  • Brother Chuck Schroeder A Tropical Paradise USA, FL
    Oct. 14, 2011 11:19 a.m.

    2nd repost, of "The Real Truth", Re: "Religious bigotry".

    LQQK, I'm now going to tell you the truth, and yes, the truth shall never be covered up, if you don't believe me, ask Utah's icon "poster boy" Glenn Beck. WHEN a Mormon, is running for a public Office, (in this case Romney and Huntsman), for The White House, they should never be pampered as if they are some sort of special Utah pampered poodle types, because they are LDS, they are open for public criticism, and if the heats to "HOT" for them, (as the Utah sympathizers puts it), then these runner's needs to quit right now, and, get out of the kitchen. If they are so sensitive now about a "cult" word, right now, then when a real conflict erupts while in Office, they'll never be able to handle it, and could get us all killed. Or this time, really crash America beyond any bandage quick fix that could last our lifetime. America's don't want RINO wimp's running the show in The White House, so the middleclass has to pay for their error's and mistakes.

    I told ya'll I would tell you the truth. Are you scared?.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Oct. 14, 2011 11:17 a.m.

    Idablu - I could have sworn this article was about religious bigtry, but since the DN montior totally rejected (didn't write me a nastigram) my comment addressing that subject but whole-heartedly printed your concern about President Bush's support from Democrats, let me comment on your question.

    "Did the Democrats even try to support the president??" Why yes, yes they did. The following chart shows how:

    Average Democratic Senate support for Bush: 45.5 percent.
    Average Democratic House support for Bush: 36.8 percent.
    Average combined Democratic support for Bush: 41.1 percent.
    Average Republican Senate support for Obama: 8.8 percent.
    Average Republican House support for Obama: 2.7 percent.
    Average combined Republican support for Obama: 5.75 percent.

    Much to my chagrin, much of George Bush's policies would not have been put in place without Democratic support in the House and Senate. I'm not happy about that but at least they're not obstructionsists. That label belongs to just one party.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 11:15 a.m.

    @idablu
    "Which party has almost brought the country to its knees with an unsurmountable debt which resulted in a downgrading of our credit rating."

    The downgrade was due to three factors.
    1. too much spending (give that to both parties since both are responsible for building debt, and the largest deficit deal on the table was the 4 trillion dollar one Obama was trying to get... but hey give that to democrats if you want)
    2. too little taxation (republicans are blocking that)
    3. too much partisanship and too high a risk of defaulting on the debt (Bachmann WANTED us to crash into the debt ceiling, that ones' on the tea party)

    So 2 of the 3 biggest reasons for the debt downgrade are republican ones.

    Oh, by the way, S&P ratings are junk. The next business day after the downgrade when the DOW lost 400 points... what were those people putting money into that day? US treasuries, the very thing that just got downgraded. Nobody cared that it got downgrded, they still wanted those now AA+ plus treasuries.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 11:14 a.m.

    Rifleman said: Not that I particularly favor Mitt Romney but he pulled Salt Lake City's fat out of the fire when the 2002 Winter Olympic Games were headed for financial disaster. Most people have forgotten the scandal that threatened it.

    Not how I remember it, he just showed up for the credit and to save Governor Levitts from being brought in (rightfully) to the scandal that wasn't anything lobbyist do everyday at the capital there in our fair state.

    But back to bigotry-poor perry's wife says they're being tortured by everyone because her husband is the "most" religious, even his own party is attacking him.

    The right wing teahaudist have now excluded even there own whether it be mittens or perry or anyone else because of the mixed message of "manifest destiny" for the country.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 11:08 a.m.

    @lost in DC
    "I thought dems were supposed to be more tolerant and open-minded."

    Gallup polling shows Democrats are more willing to vote for blacks, women, jews, catholics, hispanics, atheists, homosexuals, people married three times...Republicans have Mormons and 72 year olds (the elderly one being the only one that conservatives had over liberals in 2007; yes even liberals in 2007 were more willing to vote for Mormons than conservatives... maybe Prop 8 caused the reversal).

    Notice anything about the categoriees Democrats are more willing to vote for? Those are constituencies that are primarily Democratic. The Mormons and elderly... primarily Republican constituencies. I think a few of the respondants are treating the question as "that category tends to be the opposite politically as me... so I probably wouldn't vote for them".

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 14, 2011 11:00 a.m.

    Re: JoeBlow | 10:18 a.m. Oct. 14, 2011
    "When have we ever had one of those?"

    Not that I particularly favor Mitt Romney but he pulled Salt Lake City's fat out of the fire when the 2002 Winter Olympic Games were headed for financial disaster. Most people have forgotten the scandal that threatened it.

  • David King Layton, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 10:58 a.m.

    @Rifleman | 9:46 a.m. Oct. 14, 2011

    "What Mormons want is someone who understands the US Constitution and has some basic concept about how to balance a checkbook."

    Mitt Romney will likely win 80 to 90% of the vote here in Utah. Is he the most likely to understand the US Constitution and balance the nation's checkbook? When asked if he would need Congressional authority to launch an attack against Iran, Mitt Romney stated he would have to "talk with (his) attorneys". Where does Romney find justification for bank bailouts in the Constitution? I've searched Romney's website for a reference to the Constitution and I couldn't find it. You might have better luck.

    If we Mormons only wanted someone who "understands the Constitution and has some basic concept about how to balance a checkbook" we might see more support for Ron Paul, Champion of the Constitution and who has never voted for an unbalanced budget and pledges to balance our nation's budget. It is telling that we do not see such support here.

    This is more about religion than we would like to admit.

  • idablu Idaho Falls, ID
    Oct. 14, 2011 10:33 a.m.

    Re; Well Read

    All those who lay all the countries problems at the feet of Bush are being very unfair. Bush did not legislate. Congress does that. The president can suggest. Put forth ideas for bills. He does not pass bills. He does not raise taxes. Nor does he lower taxes.

    Look at the record of the congress during the Bush administration. Did the Domocrats even try to support the president?? Which party has almost brought the country to its knees with an unsurmountable debt which resulted in a downgrading of our credit rating. Which party wants to ignore the warning signs and increase our spending and debt even more!?

    In order for the country to progress the Congress and the President must work together. Fiscal responsibility is the solution. The far left and the democrats did not compromise with Bush and won't do it now. The Democrats (and to a much lessor extent, Republicans) have no fiscal conscience. THAT is the problem!!

  • JoeBlow Miami Area, Fl
    Oct. 14, 2011 10:18 a.m.

    "What Mormons want is someone who understands the US Constitution and has some basic concept about how to balance a checkbook."

    When have we ever had one of those?

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 14, 2011 9:46 a.m.

    Re: 10CC | 8:04 a.m. Oct. 14, 2011

    Why in the world would Mormons care if the president was Sentologist, Muslim or Buddhist? There is nothing in the US Constitution that suggests religious belief is a prerequisite to be a president.

    What Mormons want is someone who understands the US Constitution and has some basic concept about how to balance a checkbook.

  • Well Read SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 9:45 a.m.

    All those who lay all the countries problems at the feet of Obama are being very unfair. Obama doe not legislate. Congress does that. The president can suggest. Put forth ideas for bills. He does not pass bills. He does not raise taxes. Nor does he lower taxes.

    Look at the record of the congress since Obama has been president. Have the Republicans even tried to support the president?? Which party has almost brought the country to the brink of default twice? Almost a third time?? Which party may also do the same in November then the continuing resolution needs to be approved??

    In order for the country to progress the Congress and the President must work together. Compromise is the solution. The T Party and the republicans do not compromise. THAT is the problem!!

  • Rikitikitavi Cardston, Alberta
    Oct. 14, 2011 9:34 a.m.

    @10cc
    Get out your pencil and I will start your poll: As a Mormon I will vote for the most qualified person given the needs of the country as I see them with no regard for his/her religion if any. ("it's the economy, stupid")

  • StandAlone South Jordan, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 9:22 a.m.

    At this point I'll take a small government atheist for President. Anybody but what we have now. I'm appalled at how many people have made such a stink over Mitt Romney's religion. His religious beliefs are at the bottom of my "concern" list. I just want a boring but effective President, in 2012 I'll be voting with my wallet.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 8:04 a.m.

    It would be interesting to see a poll of Mormons to see how willing this population would be to support a Scientologist for President. Does their tolerance extend to other less historically represented groups? Muslims? Buddhists? Or is this mostly just an issue of LDS looking to join the mainstream, getting into the "club" of accepted religions?

  • EJM Herriman, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 7:59 a.m.

    My whole argument here is that in our state one of the biggest litmus tests is whether or not someone is LDS, when it comes to voting for them. Should it? No, but it does. Should it at the national level? No, but it does. Does it come with the territory then that folks that are LDS (Mr. Romney and Mr. Huntsman) should address it? Yes. The scrutiny is unfair but it is what it is.

  • liberal larry salt lake City, utah
    Oct. 14, 2011 7:44 a.m.

    Who ever wrote the title to this editorial got a little carried away with the headline "Religious Bigotry". You can't always gauge a person's motivation by the results of a poll. In a 2010 survey by Gallop, 90% of Mormons self described themselves as "very" or "moderately" conservative! This was the highest of any American religion asked. It is not surprising that Democrats wouldn't vote for a Mormon since LDS voters are so homogeneously Republican, that it is almost like asking Democrats, "Would you vote for a conservative?"

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 7:38 a.m.

    Gee, even the LA Times says "Twenty-seven percent of Democrats said they wouldn't support a Mormon for president, compared with 20 percent for Republicans"

    I thought dems were supposed to be more tolerant and open-minded. I've always known that was not true.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 14, 2011 6:26 a.m.

    I'm much more interested in electing a President who can guide us out of the financial mess we are in, and not so much in electing a President because of his personal beliefs, if any, in God.