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Kathleen Parker: Why worry about Mormons? They seem to be best candidates

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  • DSB Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 10:08 a.m.

    It seems pretty obvious that people who resort to claiming that Jesus would align politically with liberals, or conservatives, or Democrats or Republicans, are abjectly ignorant of the goals and motivations of their political opponents, have run out of debatable ideas, and clearly know much less about Jesus than they think.

  • @Charles the greater outdoors, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 5:10 p.m.

    Dear LDS Lib: it's sad to see someone like you so confused about the doctrines and principles of the gospel. Conservatives do nothing that you state. In fact, it's the Dems who enact the policies that you deplore. How you don't understand this is a mystery but so be it.

    There truly is no hope for people like you. The hate, anger and vitriol that you have pent up inside you is astounding. Your posts aren't of a loving, kind, tolerant nature at all. How is that following Christ?

    How do you not see that Democratic policies restrict freedom and liberty? They take the ability of me to decide how I want to live my life and what I want to do with my money.

    How much I make or who I give it to or how I spend it is not your concern. But through your government mandates you make it your concern.

    Others have tried to help you see the light but I'm afraid that your hate, anger and intolerance run so deep that you'll never find peace in this life.

    For anyone to live the way you choose is sad.

  • EJM Herriman, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 4:11 p.m.

    I guess my complaint is when here locally it is used to justify voting for someone, rather than voting on the individual regardless of their religious background. It would be foolish to think that being of the dominant religion here in Utah would be a hindrance to someone seeking public office. It is, in fact, worth more than a few points at the voting polls. Yet, there are people of the LDS faith who have run for office using their church background as a qualifier who are all about themselves and not about the people who are voting for them. Power is an incredible narcotic, regardless of religion. My point here is this: Just because a person is of any particular faith doesn't make them better, or worse, than someone else. So why are we so concerned about it?

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 2:58 p.m.

    atl 134
    I misspoke,

    I should not have said "less willing" the term used in the articles was "unwilling".

    Pagan,
    picking and chosing - again - to create your spin.

    My criticism of your source was not because it was from the UK, but was because it was an opinion piece.

    just to repeat, so you will have a better CHANCE of understanding - I am not criticising WHERE your OPINION piece came from, but rather the fact that it was an OPINION piece.

    BO is not responsible for ANY deaths while he has been CIC? He's not responsible for ANYTHING? playing the tired race card again - boy, you ARE getting desparate.

    and I'll inform you - again - we made money on the bank bail-out (TARP).

    But we all know in 2315, when who knows who will be in the white house, it will still ALL be bush's fault.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 2:45 p.m.

    Pagen summed it up nicely on the first page.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 1:37 p.m.

    @lost in DC
    "However, there have been a couple articles in this paper in the last week reporting on polls indicating dems would be less likely to vote for a mormon than repubs, purely on religion."

    That is true but what does that mean? Less likely doesn't mean unwilling and a few years ago conservatives had higher rates than liberals of not being willing to vote for Mormons. So what caused the reversal? I'd say Prop 8 has a lot to do with it. While 2% of California, LDS members contributed half the funds to the Prop 8 side and 3/4 of the volunteer hours while the church openly supported Prop 8. Democrats generally disagree with most Mormon politicians because it's a conservative church, which probably means LDS candidates generally face a political test from Democrats... where Democrats are less likely to vote for Mormons but not unwilling, they just need to make sure they aren't conservatives and will stray from the average Mormon's political position first. Republicans on the other hand, politically match with Mormons very well and their less willing position towards voting for Mormons seems religious in nature rather than political.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 1:26 p.m.

    @Richard Saunders
    "Jesus certainly taught us to be compassionate, merciful, and to care for the needy, but I can't find a scripture where he says, "Now go lobby Rome for a more progressive tax structure.""

    He does not but he also didn't ask for insurance cards from the people he healed. You know... what about 4th Nephi when they have "all things in common"? That sounds a lot more like Sweden then the US and after all... the United Order was basically a gov't system that is much much more socialist than anything Republicans pretend Obama to be.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 1:17 p.m.

    'You post a quote saying bush's greatest regret was the intelligence failure. so he admitted their was a failure.' - lost in DC | 12:58 p.m. Oct. 13, 2011

    No.

    'A' intelligence failure is not...

    'HIS' intelligence failure.

    Acknowleding someone ELSE'S failure, is not taking the responsibility...yourself.

    Your criticizing a news source...because it's from the UK?

    I'm sorry, should I post something from Fox News instead??

    *'Obama's TARP Slush Fund' - David Asman - Fox Business - 02/24/

    *'Univ. of Maryland study finds Fox News viewers to be misinformed on key issues' - By Ryan Witt - Examiner - 12/17/10
    'Over 40% of respondents said President Obama started TARP even though TARP was signed into law by President Bush on October 3rd of 2008.'

    No WMD's in Iraq.

    *'US gives up search for Iraq WMD' - BBC News - 01/12/05

    'Mr Duelfer reported last year that Iraq had no stockpiles of chemical or biological weapons at the time of the US-led invasion nearly two years ago.'

    And is that how you 'take responsibility'?


    By placing blame on the first black president, call him 'boy', an OBVIOUS racial term...

    instead of the one who STARTED the war in Iraq?

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 12:58 p.m.

    LDS Lib,
    I appreciate how much you know about me. You must be the finance clerk in my ward and know that I have never donated a nickel to anything in the church.

    You must also review all my tax returns and KNOW that I never make ANY charitable contributions to any non LDS charities.

    And since I accept Christ's admonition to "let not your left hand know what your right hand is doing" when giving alms, I'll not bother to set you straight.

    Do you accept Christ's admonition to "judge not"? I guess I can read most of your posts and determine that answer for myself.

    Pagan,
    you're quoting a UK newspaper editorial piece as fact? You crack me up!

    You post a quote saying bush's greatest regret was the intelligence failure. so he admitted their was a failure. how is that not taking responsibility? and Iraq never used chemical weapons? tell that to the dead Kurds and Iranians.

    When you post the number of war dead, why don't you tell us how many came after January 2009, when your wonder-boy took over.

  • Richard Saunders Provo, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 12:24 p.m.

    @LDS Liberal
    Here's what I think:

    "I see absolutely NO difference between totalitarian Theocratic regimes of ultra-Conservative Muslims -- and ultra-Conservatives Christians."

    I make no defense of either group. Please note that I didn't say Jesus was a conservative, I said he couldn't be classified by our current political labels.

    "BTW - Christ was crucified by the rich, pompus, ultra-Conservatives of his day -- NOT the Romans."
    He was crucified by the Romans because certain groups desired it, but did not have the authority. Remember that only the Romans had the power to execute, and under Roman law, blasphemy was no crime. His official "crime" was inciting rebelling and speaking against the current leaders. I believe this shows the danger of collusion between a big, powerful government and rich, powerful special interests.

    My point was not that Jesus more closely aligns with the conservatives of today, but that it's very difficult to extrapolate spiritual teachings to fit only one ideology and view of government. I never said I would prove Jesus wasn't a liberal, just that there is not enough evidence to align him with the politics of Pelosi, Reid, and Obama.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 12:15 p.m.

    lost in DC | 11:25 a.m. Oct. 13, 2011

    LDS Lib,
    you crack me up! conservatives have always been about personal responsibility,

    ===============

    Yep - I've got mine, boo-hoo to those less forturante. Go get your own -- you're poor, sick, needy because you are just lazy!

    I choose to follow a Liberal's path --

    Life is like a sinking ship.
    We are all doomed. Not one of us is saved.

    Everyone does their their best to swim to a life-raft.
    Only one person is able to make it into the lifeboat [methaphorically Christ] and he pulls a poor sap like me/you into the boat for safety.

    Then he turns and says to do likewise to help the others. [Liberalism].

    I see ultra-Conservatives "personal responsibility only" types as those who once finding THEMSELVES safe and secure,
    begin kicking down others trying to pull themselves up into the boat. Forgetting who it was that helped and blessed them gain their safety and security and then commanded to help others likewise.

    King Benjamin had some harsh words towards people like that.
    The Savior said, to them is the greater condemnation.

    You go your way Brother, I'll go mine.

    ~ Peace

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 11:25 a.m.

    ECR,
    you say dems elevated clown prince harry to the highest office in the senate. That is true.

    However, there have been a couple articles in this paper in the last week reporting on polls indicating dems would be less likely to vote for a mormon than repubs, purely on religion.

    LDS Lib,
    you crack me up! conservatives have always been about personal responsibility, while libs such as yourself have always been about having everything done for you (Lucifer's plan). Yet you try and twist it around the other way. What a card! HAHAHA, boy, you are funny.

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Oct. 13, 2011 10:44 a.m.

    Romney or Huntsman I believe will lead in the center. Romney likes to misslead (lie) so I'm not crazy about him. Last debate he said he asked why Obama didn't ask for his advice about health care? Turns out Obama did and used 3 of Romney's health care advisors. He's also still saying the economy is Obama's fault. Now that's just plain deceptive or he's dumb as a rock. I know why most republicans say it but Romney was brought up better than that.

    To me a good mormon politician is an oxymoron in the first place. You can either follow the christian religion or be an American politician. Choose wisely.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 10:36 a.m.

    Richard Saunders | 9:29 a.m. Oct. 13, 2011
    Provo, UT

    The War in Heaven was fought because Lucifer proposed "Forcing" everyone to Choose the right, always.

    Sounds more like Conservative than Liberal.

    I see absolutely NO difference between totalitarian Theocratic regimes of ultra-Conservative Muslims -- and ultra-Conservatives Christians.

    For example:
    Banning drugs and alcohol,
    Banning smoking,
    Banning vulgar media,
    Takingaway Healthcare from the poor, Elderly, and the needy,
    banning abortions,
    Shunning the poor and needy,
    Intolerance of others; race, sexual-orientation, immigrants, religion,

    While some maybe good ideas - it strips away Freedom in the process.

    I fought against that plan.
    I STILL fight against it.

    Alma taught the wicked MUST be allowed to committ their wickedness.
    He understood priorities and knew FreeAgency came with risks.
    I accpet them as well.


    BTW - Christ was crucified by the rich, pompus, ultra-Conservatives of his day -- NOT the Romans.

    He associated with the poor, the lepers, and the Non-Jews.
    Classic Liberal.

    BTW - Lucifer the other 1/3 were cast out for "Rebellion", not their Plan.
    (beginning with a closemind and an unwillingness to compromise)
    Another characteristic I see more of coming from the ultra-far-right-wing.

  • Hellooo Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 10:17 a.m.

    The difficulty with Romney is not his religion, but his devotion to certain principles, and not social principles. This is very important because Mr. Bush was devoted to certain social principles, but in most was as liberal as any Democrat with regard to social spending or for that matter government involvement in state and social life. Mr. Romney with is support for "Romneycare" and his current economic revival plan show that he is much the same. The middle right know that the country has moved so far to the left that the middle is seen by them as far right, and it wants a candidate that will bring such policies into office. Mr. Romney and Mr. Huntsman will not do this. No mame these are neither the best or brightest, but they the most establishment and to some degree offer almost no difference from the current administration. Mr. Cain is by far the most clear thinking candidate, with the clearest understanding of the absolute need for change we can believe in, not just more of the same old Republican policies that to a large extent are responsible for the problems facing the country.

  • Richard Saunders Provo, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 9:29 a.m.

    @LDS Liberal
    "Sounds to me like he [Jesus] was a Liberal"

    I've seen you state this several times, but I just don't think there is enough evidence for such a claim. Jesus certainly taught us to be compassionate, merciful, and to care for the needy, but I can't find a scripture where he says, "Now go lobby Rome for a more progressive tax structure." It was always a personal responsibility.

    He didn't tell the rich young man to sell all he had and give it to the Centurions, who would then apply it to various social programs. It was to be given directly to the poor.

    I assume you are LDS (as LDS liberal is your name) so you know that the war in heaven was not fought because Lucifer couldn't get behind a single payer healthcare system. It was that he wanted to take away our agency and keep the glory for himself. God gave us agency, and if he meant for us to be free, why surrender that right to government? God's plan is to exalt and perfect individuals, not governments. I'm not saying Jesus was a conservative, either. Only saying deity defies political labeling.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Oct. 13, 2011 9:16 a.m.

    Irony of the Day: Mormons, the most family-oriented of people, are unelectable on the "family values" Republican ticket because they are evil cultists. Mitt and Jon ought to move over to the Democratic party where the sane people are.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 8:42 a.m.

    Red Headed Stranger | 7:25 a.m. Oct. 13, 2011
    Billy Bobs, TX
    We Mormons are Christian in belief and thought if not action. If I am not a Christian, it is because I fail to live up to His standard.

    ============

    Like:

    Everyone is Equal,
    Turning the other cheek,
    Blessing them who curse you,
    If they take your coat - give them your cloak also,
    Feed the Hungry,
    Care for the sick & the Elderly,
    Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasars [cooperate and pay your taxes],
    How nearly impossible it is for the rich to get to heaven,

    Sounds to me like he [Jesus] was a Liberal.
    Does that make you a Liberal too?

    I'm trying to be, that's why I consider myself Liberal as well.

  • Gildas LOGAN, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 8:25 a.m.

    I think Romney is pretty good as candidates go and, Canuk, I too hope he is in transition to something better. I think he means well and is genuine in his desire to help ordinary people, most of us. He could be better informed on some things, especially the difference between "defense" and pre-emptive strikes, military bases in three quarters of the world's nations etc.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 8:21 a.m.

    Kathleen Parker [a Liberal] wrote a very nice and accurate article defending Romney and Huntsman's religious faith.
    [As did the other lame-stream Liberal media outlets.]

    Why do those in the GOP, trample article VI of the U.S. Constitution regarding "No test of religion for those seeking Government office"?
    Aren't these the same characters who still think Pres. Obama might be a secret Muslim?

    Stop trampling the Constitution!
    You're the one's making it hang by a thread.

  • Canuk SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 8:02 a.m.

    I think Ronald Reaqan changed some of his views from being a Democrat to becoming a Republican. Is it not OK for Romney to change his views?
    I wanted Rubio/West to run but I didn't get my wish. However, I will proudly vote for Romney if he gets the nomination.
    We can't have another 4 years, or we won't have a Constitution left - Obama has gone around it and now he is trying to get his jobs bill through by going around the Congress, because all of his demanding a vote NOW didn't work.
    It's nothing but another big money bill for the unions, and it isn't a jobs bill. Get the EPA out of the way and let the entrepeneurs have a chance to make jobs!

  • Red Headed Stranger Billy Bobs, TX
    Oct. 13, 2011 7:25 a.m.

    We Mormons are Christian in belief and thought if not action. If I am not a Christian, it is because I fail to live up to His standard. Call me a fool. Call me a hypocrite. Call me a selfish jerk. And you would probably be right, but please don't say I'm not a Christian.

  • Red Headed Stranger Billy Bobs, TX
    Oct. 13, 2011 7:24 a.m.

    Cain replied:

    "I'm not running for theologian in chief. ... I am not going to do an analysis of Mormonism vs. Christianity."

    But Mr. Cain by making the distinction "Mormonism vs. Christianity" you already have. Mormons are Christians. With respect to Jesus Christ Mormons believe:

    1: The being known as Jehovah in the Old Testament was born later on earth and named Jesus.
    2: Jesus was the creator.
    3: As a man he lived a perfect life, performed miracles, taught life-giving principals, and choose and empowered representatives.
    4: He took upon Himself the sins of the world, acting as a stand-in to receive punishment for those sins, so that we will not bear the full punishment. Ultimately He was brutally killed to complete this sacrifice. On the third day He came back to life and through coming back to life we also some day will come back to life.
    5: We Mormons as Christians celebrate these acts by trying do do the things He did both symbolically (through baptism, the sacrament and other ordinances) and trying to live and love and give as He did.
    6: We believe He will come again.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Oct. 13, 2011 5:18 a.m.

    Great article and right on the money.

    I am, however, concerned about Mr. Cain's comments, "I am not going to do an analysis of Mormonism vs. Christianity." Isn't kind of like saying "I'm not going to do an analysis Dick Butkus and football players"? While Mr. Cain's statement seems to be supporting the idea that the religious test has no place in American politics, he's still promoting the same incorrect concept about Mormonism that Pastor Jeffress spewed in his introduction of Governor Perry and in subsequent comments since then - that Mormons are not Christians.

    Liberals, as a group, reject many of the social positions of the Mormon Church but it is the most conservative and most "religious" of the Republican party who display their disdain for Mormons because of theology.

    Liberals/Democrats have placed a Mormon in the the highest office in the Senate (Harry Reid). Let's see how high the Republicans/Conservatives are willing to go.

  • Gus Talwynd Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 2:22 a.m.

    Romney's problem with social conservatives and Tea Party Republicans is much more complicated than just his religion. Certainly, evangelical Christians despise his LDS beliefs, and they will figure largely in the Republican primaries throughout the South. However, his changing positions from when he ran for governor in Massachusetts and his first run at the presidency and now when he is trying to distance himself form those positions without being identified directly with the Tea Party is most revealing.

    Perhaps this is why only 25% of Republicans want Romney as the Republican nominee for President. Romney has in several debates, performing better than any other candidate, but he still can't break the 25% barrier. The majority of Republicans want a more conservative candidate -- anyone but Romney!

    Although religion plays a significant role in the hostility toward Romney by evangelicals, they and Tea Party people remember his earlier, more centrist attitudes. They fear that he won't be the president they want and be beholding to them. They are concerned that, when faced with the realities of the presidency, he won't measure up to their standard. Also, to draw in the Independents, he will have to move to the center.

  • educated_conservative Springville, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 1:06 a.m.

    Well said, Kathleen.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 12:16 a.m.

    I agree that Romney and Huntsman are the best qualified among the current crop of GOP candidates to lead the nation.

    Anyone other than those two will guarantee President Obama's reelection.

    So here's my question - how will the GOP, fully in the thrall of Evangelical Christians who judge people by how frequently and loudly they shout Hallelujah, manage to offer either of these gentlemen to the nation without alienating their "base?"