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LDS public affairs chief blogs on Mormon Christianity

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  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    Oct. 14, 2011 7:20 p.m.

    @ donn

    I did not say that the Bible was written in Latin. The word BIBLE has a Latin root; biblia, which means a collection of books.

    The rest of your comments are equally intellectual.

  • Carol P. Warnick Ephraim, Utah
    Oct. 14, 2011 5:23 p.m.

    The Vanka,
    I said someone who doesn't understand how our Heavenly Father works (refering to how a father would relate to his children.) Another church was never mentioned. Are you telling me that everyone believes in modern-day revelation the same as our church does?
    If they did they wouldn't be saying that the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints aren't Christian because we believe that God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to a young boy named Joseph Smith who is a modern day prophet and revealed many truths through the Book of Mormon. I'm afraid you got it all wrong about who is being attacked here.

  • donn layton, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 3:50 p.m.

    @John InSLC In sum, an apostolic calling includes the calling of a prophet . Wrong,they are different callings:

    Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret(plan) unto his servants the prophets. (Amos 3:7)Familiar?

    Built(past tense) on the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.(Ephesians 2:20 NIV)

    And God has placed in the church First of all Apostles, Second Prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance,(1 Cor 12:28 NIV) Apostles are first in line for Church government in the N.T. .

    There are over 26,000 N.T. quotes from the(2nd c) disciples of the Apostles and early church fathers can reconstruct the N.T. less 8 verses.

    "For all the prophets and the LAW prophesied until John(the Baptist)Mt 11:13

  • JM Lehi, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 2:07 p.m.

    If what Mormons really believe is found anywhere, it is found in the Book of Mormon:

    16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.

    11 For behold, a bitter fountain cannot bring forth good water; neither can a good fountain bring forth bitter water; wherefore, a man being a servant of the devil cannot follow Christ; and if he follow Christ he cannot be a servant of the devil.

  • JM Lehi, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 2:04 p.m.

    I assert that evangelicals, generally, are Christian, and I love them.

    Some are admittedly trained to post anti-Mormon propaganda on the DN and elsewhere.

    There are also many anti-Mormon websites claiming to teach us what Mitt Romney and all Mormons "really believe." Several of these quote Orson Pratt on Babylon (editing and leaving out his reference to John). Ive oft discussed the semi-quotes posted by DN Evangelicals and anti-Mormon gay Atheists etc (creed tortures etc)but not the Pratt quote.

    Saying Mitt and Mormons believe something because someone LDS (including O.Pratt, BY etc) said it is as unfair as saying present day Mormons all believe Gentiles are unclean because their early Prophet, Peter believed it (before his vision); that all Protestants "really believe" Catholicism is an "abomination" and "blasphemy," "works" centered, etc because Luther said it; that all Protestants hate Jews and LDS because they raped and sought extermination, etc.

    Many opinions are given, and LDS Presidents have clarified that the Abominable Church is not the Catholics and Protestants. The BofM definition is those torturing, attacking, etc the Saints. It could be some Atheists, some gays, some Catholics, some Mormons etc.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 11:48 a.m.

    donn:

    Inspired statements by the Lord's servants ARE prophetic, at any time. See Revelation 19:10 ("for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy").

    Your notion that the calling of prophets ended with Christ's Ascension takes a real hit from the Apostle John, who speaks of two witnesses who "shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days." Rev. 11:3. Indeed, the angel who served as John's guide to his grand vision told him that "the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done." Revelation 22:6.

    By all measures, except yours, John was a prophet. As we can all receive revelation (James 1:5), the difference is who we are entitled to receive revelation for. Apostles were called before and after His death as special witnesses of Christ (see Acts 1:22). Matthias (v. 26) and Paul (Rom. 1:1) received that calling well after the Ascension. Paul even applied the title to Christ, who was a witness of his Father (Heb 3:1).

    In sum, an apostolic calling includes the calling of a prophet.

  • Sasha Pachev Provo, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 11:34 a.m.

    I do not understand why those attempting to defend the Church on Prop. 8 appear to do so by saying "The Church did not tell members to do it." Yes it did, as our enemies point out, but we should be proud of it. Our church took a stand on a moral issue. That is one of the many fruit by which we are known as the followers of Christ. We should make no excuses for doing the Lord's will.

  • JohnsonR bluffdale, Utah
    Oct. 14, 2011 7:43 a.m.

    @mightymite

    Thats a great point you make.

    You have obviously been siting by your computer just waiting for someone to type the word "idolatrous" so you could pull out the old dictionary and use that old quote you found in some book a couple of years ago. What you typed had nothing to do with my point... and that is...

    Basing a religions validity by who did your interior decorating is a bit silly

  • The Vanka Provo, UT
    Oct. 14, 2011 6:53 a.m.

    Carol,

    Yes, you did. You said they do not believe in continuing revelation from God. That is not true, and saying so is an attack on them.

  • Carol P. Warnick Ephraim, Utah
    Oct. 13, 2011 11:08 p.m.

    The Vanka
    I didn't attack other churches. They can believe as they choose. I just ask for the same privilage. Christ himself told his Apostles, "Other sheep have I." After he died on the cross he came to those other sheep. What happened in those days before Christ re-appeared to his Apostles? It is recorded in the Book of Mormon. If you want to read about it you will find about the event in 3rd Nephi of the Book of Mormon. I'm just stating that the Book of Mormon is another testifer of Jesus Christ and should be considered modern revelation given to another modern-day Prophet Joseph Smith through revelation. Why is it so hard that some believe that we can't have modern day prophets that proclaim the teachings of the same church that Christ himself organized. The Book of Mormon is scripture for our day and was brought forth to help us during OUR day. Read it and find out for yourself.

  • The Atheist Provo, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 5:43 p.m.

    snowman,

    "Church members were involved but not the church. And no money ( the money that the church has comes from its members) was given by the church."

    You are mistaken. Loren C. Dunn was dispatched by Church leaders to set up the "coalition" that fought same sex marriage in Hawaii and California. Church money was authorized and spent in setting up this coalition, hiring lobbyists, and conducting "research" that was used to "discredit" those who favored same sex marriage, and to "dilute" the legislation that was passed.

    Google it. You will find the truth.

  • donn layton, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 5:32 p.m.

    JohnInSLC,"In past times He spoke by the prophets but in these Latter Days by His Son.(Heb 1:1,2 paraphrase)"Ok, no parapharase.

    Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the world =*(aion, 165, eternity). (Hebrews 1:2 KJV)*God created time.

    For all the* Prophets and the Law prophesied until John.(Mt 11:13 NIV). The *Office of Prophet.

    Not prophecy but a statement. God spoke in past times but in last times, He spoke to us by the Son.

    He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these Last Times for your sake.(1 Peter 1:21 NIV) An inspired statement not a prophecy.

  • brokenclay Scottsdale, AZ
    Oct. 13, 2011 5:12 p.m.

    "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' . . . . And any person who shall be so wicked as to receive a holy ordinance of the gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them." (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 255)

    "Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil." (1 Nephi 14:10)

    "Every spirit that confesses that Joseph Smith is a Prophet . . . is of God, and every spirit that does not is of anti-Christ." (Brigham Young, History of the Church, vol.7, p. 287)

    "[F]or they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: 'they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.'" (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, 2:18-19)

  • snowman Provo, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 4:22 p.m.

    Truthseeker: That was not read in any of my meetings. Church members were involved but not the church. And no money ( the money that the church has comes from its members) was given by the church.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Oct. 13, 2011 4:05 p.m.

    re:snowman
    From the First Presidency letter to be read to all CA congregations on June 29, 2008:
    "A broad-based coalition of churches and other organizations placed the proposed amendment on the ballot. The Church will participate with this coalition in seeking its passage. Local Church leaders will provide information about how you may become involved in this important cause.

    We ask that you do all you can to support the proposed constitutional amendment by donating of your means and time to assure that marriage in California is legally defined as being between a man and a woman."

    Now, I don't know what you mean by "order." No, we weren't threatened with excommunication (at least in our ward/stake).

    The Church cannot/didn't directly donate to the Prop 8 campaign, but it did spend money for travel (hotels, airfare, car rental) for various people, audiovisual production services etc. adding up to $188,956.61 as reported by CA Sec. of State.

    The Church was involved. It never hid its involvement. So I don't know where you are coming from.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 3:36 p.m.

    "In past times He spoke by the prophets but in these Latter Days by His Son.(Heb 1:1,2 paraphrase)"

    donn:

    So to make your argument that there can be no prophets today, you paraphrase the words of a post-Ascension Apostle and yet cite them as the Word Of God. You've countered your own argument.

    If the Apostle Paul was inspired to speak the Word post-Ascension, so may Apostles today.

  • mightymite DRAPER, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 3:30 p.m.

    Re JohnsonR:

    You are sadly mistaken with the concept. Look a little deeper: Behaviour considered idolatrous or potentially idolatrous may include the creation of any type of image of the deity, or of other figures of religious significance such as prophets... This would be the true meaning of graven images. Please refer to repected theologians before you speak. Seriously.

  • snowman Provo, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 3:04 p.m.

    Truthseeker: I do not live in California but I do know that the church did not order its members to do anything about prop 8. Church members were involved but the church itself was not. It was as you said local ward members. The General Authorities did not order us to do anything.

    BoomerJeff: It wasn't me who said anything about pictures in the ward buildings.

  • JohnsonR bluffdale, Utah
    Oct. 13, 2011 2:26 p.m.

    @BloomerJeff

    What? no graven images to worship... So they did not like the mormon church cuz it was not decorated to their taste. Seriously.

  • BoomerJeff Saint George, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 1:52 p.m.

    Snowman: I was referring to the room where sacrament meeting is being held, not the whole "church building". My non-member frend thought that room was too sterile, with no pictures or the cross.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Oct. 13, 2011 1:39 p.m.

    re:BoomerJeff
    An LDS chapel would be significantly different from a Catholic church.
    I can certainly understand your friend's observations. I love the beauty and architecture of Catholic Cathedrals.
    The LDS chapels can be austere. We never even have flower arrangements in our chapel and the lights seem really dim. The burlap on the walls, well you get the picture. It is depressing!

    I've often wondered what visitors think of our sacrament meetings. Sometimes they are more gospel focused, but many times they are taylored to a narrower audience: missionary work, temples etc. We had non member visitors accompany us to church around the 24th of July. We warned them ahead of time they would hear about the Mormon pioneers.

    re:snowman
    Did you live in CA in 2008?
    It is a matter of public record how the church was involved with Prop 8.
    I can assure you through my firsthand experience there was significant involvement of the local ward members here. Leaders also repeatedly "reminded" us, during Sunday meetings, of the Churche's stance on the issue. I could go into detail but it wouldn't get posted.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 1:11 p.m.

    the good Rev. Jeffress isn't interested in the truth but he is VERY interested in keeping his "paying flock" away from understanding the truth about Mormonism. You see the more people know about Mormons the more likely they are to join with them and Jeffress knows that fact all too well - thousands of protestants leave their own faiths and join with the Mormons every year and this is $$$ out of Jeffress pocket.

  • Outsider Looking In BOISE, ID
    Oct. 13, 2011 1:00 p.m.

    When people have asked whether Mormons are Christian, or have made statements that they are not, I've always found it helpful to ask them how precisely they define their term. I believe that most of this misunderstanding is one of imprecise language. Only once I know how someone is using the term "Christian" can I best respond. The fact is, there are some real, fundamental differences in what most Mormons believe about the nature and mission of Jesus Christ (and godhood generally), and what other mainstream Christian denominations believe. So I generally don't take offense when someone asserts that I am not Christian, if all they are really saying is, "we don't believe the same thing." But if the best they can come up with is, you don't believe in Jesus Christ as the savior of the world, then we have need of a much longer conversation. This problem is only exacerbated in politics, where people never define their terms and instead opt to use a scripted shorthand where "liberal," "small business owner," and "socialist" are supposed to mean the exact same thing to everyone who uses those terms.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 11:02 a.m.

    @MidwestMom
    " How can other Christian faiths criticize the Book of Mormon when their own doctrine is outside scripture? "

    They believe that the trinity doctrine is biblical and supported by scripture. They believe that the Council of Nicaea merely wrote out a simple explanation of what always was a biblical truth.

    @CalvinR
    "When did the Mormon Church change/add/subtract anything from the Bible?"

    The belief is that the Mormon church added the Book of Mormon to scriptures which in essence is like adding books to the Bible (the word Bible in the "adding to the Bible" phrase means "scriptures" when used in a claim against the LDS church).

    Of course, as I and others already explained, that verse about adding/subtracting is in Revelation and only applies to the book of Revelation anyway so it doesn't matter either way.

    @snowman
    "no the church gave no money to prop 8."

    LDS Church's in-kind donations to Prop. 8 total $190K
    Deseret News Published: Tuesday, Feb. 3, 2009

    @believeroftheway
    "But even if we...preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you"

    Doesn't mean there can't be more scriptures, they just have to preach the same Gospel.

  • The Caravan Moves On Enid, OK
    Oct. 13, 2011 10:44 a.m.

    Well written reply by the LDS church public affairs chief.

    Detractors will freak out, if they choose, over LDS doctrines and our continued growth, but so be it.

    The Lord is at the head and the mighty caravan moves on.

  • The Vanka Provo, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 10:20 a.m.

    Carol P. Warnick

    Please stop listening to those Mormons who converted away from other religions - they are failed believers and apostates. Would you trust former LDS to tell the truth about Mormonism?

    Every Protestant preacher, Orthodox or Catholic Priest, or religious professor of theology I have spoken with (and that is quite a few) has acknowledged and even gloried in ongoing revelation from God.

    It is such a misrepresentation to say that ONLY the LDS Church believes in continuing, modern-day revelation. That just simply is NOT true! And because it is not true, the claim that LDS have the only current revelation among Christians cannot be used as evidence for the "truth" of your Church.

    Why do you continue to distort and attack other faiths just to make your Church look better?

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 10:11 a.m.

    This is only a case of the Christian world deeming themselves Christian because of their body of beliefs. When they say that Mormons aren't Christian they're misstating and basing those misstatements on differences in beliefs. It's a shame that they've taken Christ out of Christianity.

  • believeroftheWAY MELBOURNE BEACH, FL
    Oct. 13, 2011 10:02 a.m.

    If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds, 2 John 10-11; But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed, Galatians 1:8-9; But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction, 2 Peter 2:1.

  • grandmagreat Lake Havasu City, AZ
    Oct. 13, 2011 9:42 a.m.

    My heart aches for those who have had the blessngs of church membership in their lives, and I Pray they will come back into the fold. This generation has so many things that pull them away from the true teachings of the Savior that it makes my heart ache. The Early members of the church suffered in physical ways, much more than we do today, as they were driven from their homes, in Missouri, and Illinois. We are now suffering because of all the people who use this great media to run the church down. It should wake some of those people up that we have grown to a worldwide church from a small town in Upstate New York. Over 14 million strong, and with members around the world. Also, for you that run down the church, are you aware of the great humanitarian service performed by the church through its members? I Know that the gospel was restored, and that it is hard for some to understand, but to those of you who have fallen away please come home!

  • Carol P. Warnick Ephraim, Utah
    Oct. 13, 2011 9:36 a.m.

    I know it must be hard for someone who doesn't completly understand God the Father and his love and concerns for us to think that there is no modern-day revelation but I liken it to a loving father sending his children away from home and then never contacting them again. They may know that he is their father but do they know of his constant love and help for our day and it's problems? The Book of Mormon is another testament of a loving Heavenly Father who cares for our welfare and guides us through this mortal life as he testifies of his son Jesus Christ who is the example that we should follow.

  • snowman Provo, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 9:31 a.m.

    Truthseeker: Again the church had nothing to do with prop 8. The money that the church has belongs to its members and no the church gave no money to prop 8.

    Kevin J. Kirkham: The church did not order its members to do anything.

  • JohnsonR bluffdale, Utah
    Oct. 13, 2011 9:07 a.m.

    @BloomerJeff

    Have you really ever been in an LDS church? Every single one I have been in has pictures of Jesus Christ and Biblical seens all over the wall.

    BloomerJeff your pants are on fire.

  • BoomerJeff Saint George, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 8:54 a.m.

    My non-member friend visited my ward with us one Sunday. He said the chapel seemed "sterile" since there were no pictures or a cross. He said it reminded him a public school, no references to the Lord. He also left the meeting feeling like we worship "families" and that we believe families are what get mormon people into heaven, not Christ's atonement. He left feeling like we weren't Christian. It opened my eyes that Christ is often pushed aside for other priorities we think are important.

  • mominthetrenches South Jordan, Utah
    Oct. 13, 2011 8:45 a.m.

    @Europe: Archbishop Niederauer and President Hinckley were a great example of Christian allies in the causes for ministering to the needs of the community and the country, even if their doctrines did not match. I miss both of these men and appreciate your comments.

    I am glad someone is finally sending people on to the Church's website for info--I am never comfortable asking someone who is LDS to explain to me about a Baptist's/Buddhist/Jewish person's faith. I don't think we will sway the minds of many who choose to get hung up on the religion issues, but it sounds like Mitt Romney handled himself in the recent debate best by just taking the higher road and moving on rather than taking a contentious stand. The longer this goes on, the more the right-wing looks uninformed and bigoted, which is a big turn-off in 2012. I say Romney/Cain ticket for 2012--LDS/African American team of well-known businessmen? I can see it....

  • CalvinR bluffdale, Utah
    Oct. 13, 2011 8:42 a.m.

    Hold on here!
    When did the Mormon Church change/add/subtract anything from the Bible? The debate is kinda pointless cuz the LDS church has never added or subtracted anything from the Bible. Mormons, In fact embrace the Bible as a whole. Mormons don't even use the "New World" edition but the older and more traditional "King James" version of the Bible.
    The real answer to question of Mormon additions to the Bible is to simply ask for an example of just ONE change that has been made. Response there are none. Dont confuse the issue.
    What about the Book of Mormon? Oh yeah .. its ANOTHER testament of Jesus Christ.

  • donn layton, UT
    Oct. 13, 2011 8:35 a.m.

    RE: The Rock The work Bible comes from the Latin word biblia which means "A collection of books". Bibliography comes from the same word. A Holy Bible is a collection of holy books. Wrong,
    The N.T was written in Greek, Bible(Biblos)a book or scroll. Holy(Hagios)separate or saint. What makes the Holy Bible different from other books is over 200 fulfilled prophecies.

    Re: The Rock,Romans 10:9 Jesus is Lord. The early Christian statement of faith. Lord(kyrios) is the Septuagint translation of YAHWEH or Jesus is God.

    John 3:3 Born again(anothen)Born from above. Or (1Peter 1:23), For you have been born againthrough. the word of God.
    Reveation(apokalpsis) uncovering.

    For ALL the prophets were until John(the Baptist)(Mt 11:13) In past times He spoke by the prophets but in these Latter Days by His Son.(Heb 1:1,2 paraphrase)

  • Europe Topeno, Finland
    Oct. 13, 2011 3:15 a.m.

    Let us all get over this and allow each other differences of opinions on this!
    The most important question is, and has always been, Who is YOUR personal Savior?

    The best most Christian answer from a clergy with a long time affiliation with LDS is by the Catholic Archbishop.George Niederauer when SL Tribune interviewed him as ha leaving his post as the bishop to the 200.000 Utah Catholics 10 years ago.

    " If a man or woman of whatever church says to me, 'I believe Jesus Christ is my Savior and I try to follow Him and live my life according to His teachings and therefore I am a Christian.' who am I to say I know better?". Word.by word quote... I have it as a bookmarker in my Book of Mormon.

  • Midwest Mom Soldiers Grove, WI
    Oct. 12, 2011 11:43 p.m.

    The doctrine of the Trinity, three-in-one God, is not in the Bible. It is a product of various creeds. How can other Christian faiths criticize the Book of Mormon when their own doctrine is outside scripture?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 11:18 p.m.

    @Cats
    "Those who are pure in heart will hear and accept that truth. "

    So people who learn about Mormonism and choose not to join, decide they don't believe the LDS church is true, or were part of it and leave aren't pure in heart?

    @cjb
    "Many of the practices that are deemed necessary to be a christian by evengelicals were not practiced by christians historically until about 400 AD when the king Constintine mandated those practices."

    I think you will find that most who believe in the trinity doctrine believe that it was not created in 400AD, just that the council of nicaea (sp?) helped explain something that was always taught and always a biblical truth.

    @mightymite
    "Mormons need to get over this fact and just move on that it is not a Christian religion"

    According to the definition of Christian used by some. Not the case with others.

    @Hawkyo
    "Prop 8 was a multi denominational, and non denominational in some cases political action to protect traditional families. It was not a "Mormon" thing"

    The LDS church gave about 200k in in kind donations, members (2% of california) donated ~1/2 the money and ~3/4 the volunteer hours)

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Oct. 12, 2011 11:14 p.m.

    One more try
    Re:Hawkyo
    Protect Marriage was a coalition which the LDS Church joined.
    Protect Marriage also reported around half of the money raised came from Mormons, and a majority of the grassroots efforts was done by Mormons.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 10:41 p.m.

    The mormon church has been in the forefront of recognising the christianity brand as where the political power is in this country, and aligning itself accordingly.

  • mtmanmc Colorado Springs, CO
    Oct. 12, 2011 10:34 p.m.

    'By their fruits, ye shall know them.' Those who seek with real intent, ponder in their hearts, and seek with an open heart and minds. Ofter pray with real intent will receive an answer from the Holy Ghost and a burning in their bosom, that these things are true. That is the promise that Jesus Christ has made to mankind that his church. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and the Book of Mormon is True.
    That is the test, that I made some 37 years ago.
    I've spend all my life near and close to politics. Never have I seen such contention against the believes over a man's faith for the office of President of the United States nor who is a Christian and who isn't a Christian.
    When the need arises from natural emergencies. You will find The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints providing help. That is Christians in action.

  • Kevin J. Kirkham Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 10:32 p.m.

    snowman -
    The church had nothing to do with prop 8. Members of the church did but the church itself did not.

    LDS4 -
    huh? The Church had nothing to do with passing it in the same way a military general had nothing to do with enemy casualties. He never pulled a trigger. He, like the Church, simply ordered the foot soldiers to do all of the dirty work so that no blood every got on his hands. Church members, under the direction of Salt lake, gave half the money and 90% of the man-hours. You and I and everybody else knows that if it wasn't for the Church, the campaign wouldn't have gotten a fraction of what they got in $ and man-hours and without that, the campaign would have lost.

    BTW, why were members directed to send donations to a Church P.O. Box with donation slips listing their ward and stake instead of just sending the money directly to the campaign?

    The Church DID have something to do with it since it paid a fine to the IRS over underreporting the in-kind donations the Church HQ gave to the campaign.

  • mightymite DRAPER, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 10:29 p.m.

    Funny, "visit the website for more infomation." - run like a true corporation.

  • WalterClinger EAST ANDOVER, NH
    Oct. 12, 2011 10:24 p.m.

    Why the preoccupation with what others think. The LDS don't want the FLDS calling themselves Mormon. Why would the LDS not understand the traditional Christians don't want them calling themselves Christian. Its all about branding...

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    Oct. 12, 2011 9:49 p.m.

    @vail39

    One more thing on that Revelations 22 thing...

    The passage says not to take anything away. If this is referring to the entire Bible then what of the Apocrypha? These books are between the old and new testaments. The first Bible published had the Apocrypha. The Catholics put it in. The Protestants removed it. Would they not be as guilty of violating the command not to mess with the Bible as the Mormons if Revelations 22 was aimed at the entire Bible?

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Oct. 12, 2011 9:43 p.m.

    Let's get the facts straight people and not run away from them.
    The LDS Church announced it was joining a coalition of churches to oppose Prop 8.
    Though the church itself didn't provide monetary donations they paid travel expenses and other expenses which had to be declared in the State of CA, amounting to $180k-190k.
    So to say the LDS Church wasn't involved isn't accurate.

    LDS church members provided a significant amount of money and manpower to support Prop 8. Protect Marriage estimated Mormons contributed around half of the money raised and 80-90% of the grassroots effort.

    Which is why the LDS Church was an easy target by opponents.
    We can't run away from the facts.

  • April Rain Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 12, 2011 9:43 p.m.

    As a member of the church, we are taught to be honest, true, chaste, and to do good to all men. We desire to live our lives modeling our Savior, Jesus Christ as our perfect example. Two yrs before the Prophet Josep0h Smith died, he wrote the Articles of Faith in a letter to John Wentworth, asking for info abt the church. They're a good tool explaining our beliefs to others. Primary children, age 4-12, are challenged to memorize all 13 articles of faith. Quoting a couple:

    1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
    13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul. We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

    By their works, ye shall know them . .Let those who question, google to know more!

  • Hawkyo SYRACUSE, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 8:55 p.m.

    AUma, you half-truth speaker. Prop 8 was a multi denominational, and non denominational in some cases political action to protect traditional families. It was not a "Mormon" thing. Stop trying to deceive people.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Oct. 12, 2011 8:34 p.m.

    In my experience the Mormons believe the Atonement of Christ is an unlimited offering because to my knowledge they are the only Christian religion that teaches eternal progression is possible through the Atonement. All other Christian religions believe that is impossible, if not blasphemy! Yet my Bible invites us to become like God; "Be ye therfore perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect." Figurative speech by Jesus or literal"? Only you can decide whether the atonement is limited for you or it is unlimited. To me, that is the bottom line difference between LDS doctrine and other Christian doctrine. Like the author said, will it all end with multiplication tables for you are will you go on to higher "math". Good analogy in my opinion!

  • JKayDS EULESS, TX
    Oct. 12, 2011 8:03 p.m.

    mightymite..

    You come across as such a nice person.. A REAL Christian at heart!

    By what right do you or any evangelical Christian have to say who is a Christian or not... That is Jesus Christ's right to say and only HIS!!!!!!!!!!
    I believe in Jesus Christ.. he is my savior and redeemer. He is God's son and my Messiah. I love Him. I was baptized in His name and I take the Sacrament in His name.

    You may not except me as a Christian.. but your opinion means little to me.. It is what Christ thinks that is important and I know that he knows my heart and that to him I am considered a Christian and that is enough for me.

  • mightymite DRAPER, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 7:27 p.m.

    A pretty weak argument in my opinion. It is like comparing a Porsche to ten spead bike. Sure they are both vehicles but both are different in classes. Comparing or attempting to make mormons a part of Christianity is almost as obsurd as comparing Buddhists to Christianity-- sure they all believe in God, just a different one - not the Christ of the Bible. Mormons need to get over this fact and just move on that it is not a Christian religion- END OF STORY.

  • User41 Provo, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 7:07 p.m.

    My take is, that being a Christian is a very individual thing. There is probably a very significant portion of every denomination that argue as they might, will never do what it takes to be a real Christian (Matt. 7:21-23). Maybe we should all worry a little more about where we stand as an individual than where we think others are.

  • JDL Magna, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 7:04 p.m.

    Yes, we / I believe there is scripture beside the cannon of the Bible and we /I believe in continuing Revelation today.

    We / I believe that Jesus Christ is the Perfect Son of God and he suffered the pains and sins of all that he might know how to succor us / me and forgive those sins, and he died on the cross of Calvary and is resurrected that we / I might live again and he lives today as our / my Savior and Redeemer.

    If my testimony disqualifies me in the eyes of some as being not Christian, then I'll take my chances in Faith.

    I will not, however deny or persecute others who believe differently than I do.

  • JDL Magna, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 6:52 p.m.

    Just a note about Revelation, the official title is, "The Revelation (singular) of St John the divine"

    If one is to shorten the official title, it should read "The Revelation" or simply "Revelation"

    This Book contains the Revelation of John which he recorded and the warning at the end is, in my opinion, his way of saying this is from God himself and is not subject to private interpretation and the charge that to understand it's content, one must posses the same spirit of prophecy and revelation that he himself possessed when he received it.

    The New Testament is complete with references of the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit which Christ would bestow upon the believers who were received into his church through baptism by those who possessed the authority to perform it.

    It is through the Holy Ghost that we receive a sure witness of Jesus Christ, the literal Son of God, as he is the third member of the Godhead.

    Latter-day saints believe in the separateness and distinctness of the Godhead which goes contrary to the creeds of men where the Trinity was accepted as true doctrine.

  • watcher@75 SMITHFIELD, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 6:49 p.m.

    Christian has become a stereotypical label. Where once it referred to a people who accepted Christ's way of living where He accepted sinners and publicans to His embrace. Today the title Christian seems a carry over from the Crusades where Christ's name was used sacrilegiously to mistreat other people due to different points of view about God and His Holy Son. The Savior will not call people by the name of "christians." Rather, He will call His followers in His own glorious name, Jesus Christ.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 6:20 p.m.

    Many of the practices that are deemed necessary to be a christian by evengelicals were not practiced by christians historically until about 400 AD when the king Constintine mandated those practices.

    So does this mean that Jesus, his apostiles and the church they set up wasn't christian either?

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    Oct. 12, 2011 5:44 p.m.

    @vail39

    The work Bible comes from the Latin word biblia which means "A collection of books". Bibliography comes from the same word. A Holy Bible is a collection of holy books. When John instructed us not to add to or delete from his book, he obviously meant the Book of Revelations. He was warning us not to change it.

    God is always free to give us more of his word regardless of how much people try to prevent Him from doing so.

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 5:30 p.m.

    Dear Vail39: You should read a book entitled "How Came the Bible." The Book of Revelation was, by pure happenstance, placed at the end of the canon when the "Bible" was put together many years later. When it states "add nothing to this book," it is referring to the Book of Revelation specifically, not the "Bible" or the word of God. In other words, John is stating that no one should add to his own words in that particular book. A similar statement is made in the Old Testament (I've forgotten the reference). Does that mean that anything after that Old Testament reference should be disregarded?

    God loves all of His children in all times and all ages. He is all powerful. He has not lost the ability to speak through his prophets. The truths offered in the Bible are glorious, but why should we not seek additional truth and direction that the Saviour is offering us? That's why we have living prophets and ongoing revelation and scripture.

    Brother Otterson is a brilliant communicator of the TRUTH. His calling to communicate that Truth is clearly needed. Those who are pure in heart will hear and accept that truth.

  • LDSareChristians Anchorage, AK
    Oct. 12, 2011 5:27 p.m.

    vail39 posted: how does the LDS church get away from rev 22-18 where is says add nothing after this book?
    ======================
    Easy, when you understand the history of how the Bible came to be. When Revelation was written, the other books were not gathered into the Bible as we know it. It was several hundreds years later that all the books of the NT were decided and organized as the Bible we know today. If taken at face value, the verse in Revelation would preclude all the other books, as they were all added to the book of Revelation.
    The verse in Revelation applies only to the book of Revelation.

  • BobP Port Alice, B.C.
    Oct. 12, 2011 5:23 p.m.

    vail39. It says in Deuteronomy not to add to the book. Does that mean we should quit there?

  • byu rugby Crystal Lake, IL
    Oct. 12, 2011 5:14 p.m.

    Summerville-

    A question phrased that way leads me to believe that your intent is not to honestly find an answer but, to begin a fruitless debate. In that light, I can only say that like all things you believe but, can't see- it comes down to personal revelation. If you really want to know...

  • Carson Provo, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 5:13 p.m.

    Born again Christians go into the world to bring the unsaved to Christ. Yet Mormons try to convert Christians to Mormonism. If you're a Christian church as you claim then what's up with trying to convert Christians to Mormonism if all Christians are equal?

  • SportsFan7 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 5:12 p.m.

    vail39:

    It is important to note that the Bible as we know it did not exist in 90AD. What we know as the New Testament was all separate manuscripts, books or gospels (however you want to refer to them) of prophecies/revelations written mainly by the apostles. It was not until the Nicene Creed of 325 AD that the discussion began as to which holy manuscripts would be included in what is now the Bible. The debate even excluded certain gospels which may have been interesting to read.

    In other words John's declaration to NOT add to this book refers only to his gospel of Revelations. The Bible did not exist at the time of his writing Revelations. Revelations happens to be the last book in the New Testament as compiled by men during and after the period of the Nicene Creed....thus the confusion.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 4:58 p.m.

    Little old lady in the south enters the Republican primary voting booth.
    She can choose a person with the same religious beliefs she has,
    or she can vote for Mitt Romney and his "extra" beliefs.

    Mitt Romney would be better off focusing on other issues. He can argue "I'm a Christian" all day, but there will always be a group of voters that doesn't buy it.

  • LValfre CHICAGO, IL
    Oct. 12, 2011 4:53 p.m.

    @vail39,

    I've never seen that one. Good question, how do they? How do they get away with changing scriptures and new revelations?

    Ignorance?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 4:44 p.m.

    @vail39
    I left the LDS church but I can still answer your question.

    Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book. "

    Let's define something things.
    What is the prophecy? John's prophecy.
    What is the book? The book of Revelation. We can see this in that the reference to "the plagues that are written in this book".

    So the "prophecy of this book" that can't be added or removed from is a reference not to adding or removing from the bible, the bible wasn't assembled then. It's a reference only to adding or removing from the Book of Revelation itself. Since the LDS church does not do that, they are not in violation of that scripture.

  • vail39 Summerville, SC
    Oct. 12, 2011 4:27 p.m.

    No offense to the LDS church, I grew up in small town Utah was raised LDS. But now living in the deep south and studying the NASB study bible, it says that John was written around 80-85 AD and revalation was written, around 90AD. With that being te case, how does the LDS church get away from rev 22-18 where is says add nothing after this book?

  • snowman Provo, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 4:22 p.m.

    aumacoma: The church had nothing to do with prop 8. Members of the church did but the church itself did not.

  • morpunkt Glendora, CA
    Oct. 12, 2011 4:16 p.m.

    Having been raised a Protestant, I gained a testimony of Christ, but not of all the bickering churches I attended.
    Through earnest seeking, at the age of 20, I found the LDS church on my own and promptly asked to be baptized. I served a mission a year later. That was over 35 years ago.
    My testimony of Christ has been significantly and exponentially enhanced, because of it.
    Mormonism is Christianity on steroids.

  • Eddie Syracuse, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 4:12 p.m.

    All this hub-bub in the news will bring the honest in heart to the Church web-sites and many to the Church. I wish there were a way to track how many come into the Church this way, but then again it is many different things that will influence people to "investigate". On my mission, we used to love these types of things because we could always expect a hugh increase in people wanting to hear our message and it would usually involve several good families from the Church of the offending person.

    We always will have those certain people who will take anything the Church does out of context and go down a path that they just don't understand and still cannot see the hugh strides the Church is taking.

  • ute alumni Tengoku, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 4:07 p.m.

    aumacoma:
    yes. we can even handle tougher questions. that was a lay up.

  • Andy Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 3:54 p.m.

    Great response Mr. Otterson.Baptism, confirmation and the sacrament are all classic hallmarks of the Savior's gospel and his followers.

  • FDRfan safety dictates, ID
    Oct. 12, 2011 3:30 p.m.

    Whatever else happens this has been great for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. You cannot speak to anyone who will not hear but those who really want to know the truth are getting an opportunity that was otherwise not really available. As a convert, all of this confirms to me that I did the right thing.

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    Oct. 12, 2011 3:27 p.m.

    One of the most significant reasons that many do not consider the LDS people to be Christian is a basic disagreement on how one becomes a Christian.

    Many say that one becomes a Christian when the offer "The Sinners Pray": Lord Jesus, I accept you as my personal savior and invite you into my heart."

    They claim that they receive a powerful experience they call "The Born Again Experience". This event, being Born Again, is what makes a person Christian. (Romans 10:9).

    I am certain that these people do receive such a powerful experience. I am also certain it is of God. I just don't think it means what they think it means.

    The LDS people believe that one becomes a Christian through baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:37-38 & John 3:3-5) (Strict definition).

    A looser definition would be to say that any person who believes in Jesus Christ is a Christian.

    Only God can see what is in our hearts. Only He can say who a Christian is. I just hope that if I were accused of being Christian there would be sufficient evidence to convict.

  • TJ Eagle Mountain, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 3:25 p.m.

    Anyone who seriously studies what and who Jesus Christ is to the LDS church will quickly realize that the LDS are Christians in every way. All of the media attention has really turned the corner is support of the LDS church and the detractors are quickly becomming exposed as hateful and un-informed.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 3:23 p.m.

    There are limits as to how much convincing you can do. I believe the LDS church is Christian since it fits my personal definition of what it means to be a Christian denomination. With regards to the people who define Christianity as requiring believe in the trinity doctrine, well there's not much you can do about that. They might even be aware of the LDS beliefs, but if they're working from a different definition of Christianity than LDS members are using, knowledge of LDS belief isn't really going to change their view that it's not Christian. There is inevitably going to be some level of agree to disagree but mostly that just results in attacks going all directions.

  • aumacoma SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 12, 2011 3:23 p.m.

    'By their fruits, ye shall know them.' Prop 8.
    Is the LDS church the true church?

  • Europe Topeno, Finland
    Oct. 12, 2011 3:13 p.m.

    Mike,
    Just read your WP blog. Thank you for sharing of yourself. Well written... Your past is like mine.
    Jussi