Jake2010 asked "Just a concept here...... How can something currently 9
members strong stay at 10 members for 2012 if one leaves while one comes
in?"Just a math problem here, and math is hard, but...ISU, Mizzou, KSU, KU, OSU, OU, UT, TT, BU + TCU = 10
"Why doesn't the Big 12, which has ten teams with the addition of TCU, swap
names with the Big Ten, which has 12 teams. It's so-o-o-o-o-o
confusing!"Spitvalve:Because if they did, and then
decided to expand, THEY'D be the only erroneously-named conference instead of
the other way around. And if they don't expand, they've got company.
won84 you are embarrassing. You took this way beyond the discussion of the Big
12...do not criticize a veteran on his service, especially when you clearly have
Why doesn't the Big 12, which has ten teams with the addition of TCU, swap names
with the Big Ten, which has 12 teams. It's so-o-o-o-o-o confusing!
WON84:"...your posts tend to be a bit 'lite' for someone who's
user name implies he or she may have served in the armed forces. Most of the
comments seem more indicative of an individual who probably hid in the corner
while his fellow comrades handled the combat."...said the
Indy-WACer who never served.Do you know how I know you never served?
Because anyone who HAD served would have known how pathetic your conclusion
could be. I never suggested I served in the cougar Navy or the Provo Navy; I
served in the U.S. Navy. And any current or prior U.S. service member who had
ever graduated from basic training knows that falling all over oneself in
venerated homage to the Y is neither a prerequisite, condition, nor consequence
of Armed Forces duty. Our oath is to defend our the constitution, bear
allegiance to our nation, and obey the orders of the CIC; not Samuelson, Holmoe,
or Cosmo. You obviously didn't know that.I have to laugh at all
those how had never served a day in the military would/could impugn the service
of one who had. That is SO cougarnation!
WON84:The DNews does not permit links, but if you were to google
ESPN's "TCU discusses Big 12 invite", you will see the opening,
"TCU athletic officials and the board of trustees spoke Thursday about an
invitation to join the Big 12, and the trustees are expected to meet Friday or
early next week, according to sources close to the negotiations." So in
THIS case, TCU was invited, but had not yet accepted the invitation. Therefore,
this plainly infers that the Big XII's expansion model is:-(1)
Invitation first-(2) Acceptance of invitation at some point
afterthefact.Since there was no invitation to the Y, we may conclude
that it was because the Big XII preferred TCU. Since the most recent reports
now available suggest the Big XII's next favored opponents are West Virginia and
Louisville, we may reasonably conclude the Big XII is happy with their station
of not inviting the cougars. Case closed.
"Actually, it was the Big XII who was very happy to not align themselves
with the Y."Naval Vet, please provide a link to support that
claim. It's telling that the Big 12 was talking Arkansas, ND, and
BYU as initial expansion targets. None of the three ever actually publicly
declined an invitation to the Big 12 but, all simply reaffirmed being pleased
with their current situations. Then, despite months of claiming the Big 12
didn't want TCU, suddenly they were invited to join the conference.What it really seems like is you have an unhealed emotional wound sourced by
BYU. And speaking of the "WAC-lite", your posts tend to
be a bit "lite" for someone who's user name implies he or she may have
served in the armed forces. Most of the comments seem more indicative of an
individual who probably hid in the corner while his fellow comrades handled the
combat.Just my $.02.
Bluto:"BYU ESPN 10 games....Your perjorative [sic] tags are
nothing more than phony constructs and you know it."And
SPEAKING of "phony constructs", you cougar fans have been so in love
with the Y's ESPN contract that you've all forgotten that ESPN isn't the only
sports media outlet available broadcasting college football games. DESPITE the
Utes not having much in the way of televised games scheduled in the preseason,
the ONLY game I was NOT able to watch back here in Philadelphia was our game vs.
Montana State. BTW: Next year, EVERY Utah game will be
televised.Yes, we are 0-3 in Pac-12 play, but that would ALSO be vs.
opponents who are currently 7-1 in Pac-12 play, and 13-3 overall. That's also
known as a "front-loaded schedule".SCOREBOARD! 54-10! 7 of
the last 10! Have fun down there in the WAC!
Just a concept here...... How can something currently 9 members strong stay at
10 members for 2012 if one leaves while one comes in? This is far from over....
This said, there is a football only tolerant conference out there that BYU would
fit in with rather nicely even though it isn't much better top to bottom than
the WAC or MWC... It still has the BCS AQ status.
I'm amazed at all the fairweather BYU fans that think the BYU and Church brass
don't know what they're doing. I bet the brass are more competent than you
think.None of us know what's going on behind closed doors.BYU will end up doing what's best for the school, whether it's remaining
indepdendent for another year or two to let the B12 settle down, or remain
independent "forever." The brass will make the correct decision based
on all the "facts" available, most of which we fans will never hear
about.I'm happy either way because the B12 and independence each
provide pluses and minuses. BYU can be successful with either situation.And for you trolls who think otherwise, why did ESPN make such a
long-term contract with BYU if the school is as irrelevant as you like to think?
Bet that sticks in your craw.
If I were the B12, I too would look East for expansion. It's simple: Louisville
and West Va are already BCS schools, whereas BYU and Boise St aren't. Also,
picking up the Eastern time zone provides more eyes than does the Mountain time
zone.That said, if Missouri leaves, BYU's in, UNLESS Cincinnati is
considered a better get by the B12 than BYU.HOWEVER, there's the
issue of WHEN teams can join, with the Big East teams having that 27-month
delay. So, if Missouri leaves this year OR the next, BYU's the obvious quick-fix
for the B12 to remain at 10.If the B12 should ever want to expand to
14 to keep up with the SEC and ACC, which are headed that way, that allows BYU
an easy in, as there won't be enough left of the Big East to choose from.
Bluto:"After watching the In-Fighting, and the likes of T.
Boone Pickins etc. I think BYU is very happy not to align themselves with this
bunch."Actually, it was the Big XII who was very happy to not
align themselves with the Y. As for your "sour grapes"
spin, it is very well possible that the reason Holmoe and the rest of your
"powers that be" can get away with their failures is because enablers
such as yourself will always support whatever bad decisions they make, and then
make their excuses FOR them. I've read far too many comments from Y fans over
these past few weeks to believe you all are satisfied playing WAC-lite football
schedule. Some of your fans were asking questions and/or requesting Y
administrators keep them in the loop as to what they were doing, and why they
were doing it. Of course their pleas for explanations and accountability were
ignored. And why wouldn't they be? What are fans going to do if they don't
explain themselves? You all will just continue "supporting" them and
every decision they make; as if they could do no wrong.So get used
to the WAC.
"BYU may have better academics than any other school in the west . .
."Still Blue:A bit bold (some may say delusional), don't you
think?"ESPN is much more important in introducing the church .
. ."Steven:Is that the "introduction" the Church
really wants, right before/after the beer ads?
Bluto:The Big East - West Division scenario you have constantly
repeated sounds interesting. One fly in the ointment--BCS AQ status would not be
a sure thing.With only 6 BE members from this year, a
"new" Big East's AQ status would be still subject to the byzantine
formula of points and the records of all its members. In fact, the MWC may have
a better shot at AQ status than a "new" Big East in 2014.Ouch! Leave for more attention, all the while secretly craving BCS inclusion.
Then watch New Mexico and UNLV get in to the BCS club while your nose is still
on the outside of the glass looking in! Now all you've got left is
the knowledge that your ESPN/BYUtv/WAC TV schedule won't outdraw reruns on
TVLand. Gary Patterson had it right, "Be careful what you wish
for."As Ducky says (frequently): LOL!
Oh the humanity. It feels as if we are on the Voyage of the Damned. Trapped
upon a ship with no place that will accept our band of refugees. Meanwhile we
must endure the endless and mindless dribble from some BYU and Ute fans in the
following ways:Utes:We beat you so badly that now no one
wants youWe are the Great and Powerful Members of the All Powerful Pac
12We shall recruit while you use your stadium for intramural flag
footballCougars (some);Have a little faith, Holmoe is
perfect and has all the answersWe want to be on the outside looking inI have it on good authority that SLC wants to kill BYU sportsWe must
keep our promise to the WCCThere are more important things than football
(yeah we know)This is the bottom line. The Utes moved up. The
Cougars moved. Most Cougars want into the Big 12 (remember they have great bowl
tie-ins 2nd place to the Cotton Bowl, 5th to the Holiday Bowl for example). But the powers that be choose to leave us both blind and adrift. Never
knowing a real home. Sad.
Sorry y, Big XII was looking for football programs.
Dear Jenny,Several of us are considering a pity party in the near
future for the despondent Ute fans. You're invited.0-3
No one wants BYU. :(
Definitely disapointing. I have been watching BYU football since the Tommy
Hudspeth era and while today's news is disapointing, I am sure there will be
better days. Lets be honest though, while it may take a few years for Utah to
get competitive in the PAC12 it's going to take a few years for BYU to get some
Bluto....How did your team do against a Pac 12 team on Sept. 17th......That's
what I thought.
When the whole talk about possibly going to a BCS conference began I was very
bummed out. Independence is by far the more attractive option because it allows
the University to best serve its mission and to play games across the US. We don't need conference affiliation to make ourselves feel good. We
don't need to go to a bowl that has been labeled as BCS either. BYU with its
affliation with ESPN is much more important in introducing the church than
selling out to the Big 12 would be. That isn't what is important. It may be the
end all of joys for other programs, but not so for BYU. By staying independent
BYU has shown that some things are more important than what the rest of us
thought was important when it comes to football.
I don't know the details but I think the BYU admin bombed on this one. They are
going to regret not bending over backward to get into the Big 12 in a couple of
years. Independence will bring irrelevance unless BYU can schedule the big name
games AND win, both of which seem a lot more difficult now than they did at the
beginning of the season. I've been a BYU fan all my life but I'm going to have
to find other teams to watch while I continue to cheer for BYU. The games
against SJSU just don't do it for me unfortunately.
Good, now that's settled, lets get back to football.
Still Blue after all these years:The uncomfortable truth is that BYU
was not considered for PAC expansion for a number of reasons, but one that never
gets mentioned in these parts is California's recent Proposition 8.UC-Berkeley & Stanford consider themselves to be the vanguard of civil
rights, and Prop 8 is viewed as a civil rights issue.Of course, the
opposite opinion is that those in favor of restricting civil rights for gays and
lesbians are simply engaging in religious freedom.If the PAC sees
the issue differently than BYU, they can invite whom they choose, or not issue
invitations, accordingly.USC was founded as a religious school, so
it seems a little disengenuous to attrib religious discrimination to the entire
byu is in in 2013. I know it for a fact.
Believe as has been printed that OU's AD and President are not in favor of BYU
joining the B-12. No reason given but they also seem to be looking eastward and
not to the west. Still the sticky problem of sunday sports activities has to be
considered; not for football but for volleyball, baseball, etc. Of course, it
had EVERYTHING to do with football. Just maybe BYU should have stayed in the MWC
(fat chance with the.mtn TV contract) despite making big bucks with BYUtv
reruns. Going Indy means tough going for all sports other than football and even
FB has scheduling problems. Forget the B-12; they'll never take BYU.
If reports are true, BYU had a shot at the Big 12, but they decided to play
hardball on some issues. They didn't realize the Big 12 wanted them to HELP the
conference and add stability during a time of uncertainty. Now that the
conference is stable (due to the Big East imploding), BYU is not as
attractive.IMO, the BYU administration made a big mistake, but
independence might still work out OK.Of course, if independence
scheduling proves too difficult, BYU, Boise, AF, USU (assuming they start
winning these close games) and the rest of the best western non-AQs can create a
NEW 8-10 team conference with enough high ranking teams that they get AQ status.
The AQ formula is known, and by the time the review comes up you can probably
workout the math and set up the right teams' invites. Just make sure Thompson is
not invited as commish.
@Naval VetYour Utes aren't even mid-majors in their own conference,
they are the bottomfeeders, along with Washington State.BYU ESPN 10
games. Your perjorative tags are nothing more than phony constructs and
you know it.0-3 Pac 12. Really lighting the World on fire?
BYU is not now or ever, going to send their Non-Revenue Olympic sports to
another League, other than the WCC.They are very happy with this
arrangement, Basketball notwithstanding.They love the Association, the
Short-Travel and the the huge BYU Alumni Bases on the West Coast.After watching the In-Fighting, and the likes of T. Boone Pickins etc. I
think BYU is very happy not to align themselves with this bunch.Remember,
Oklahoma named their Athletic Center after Barry Switzer. 'Nuff said!I think BYU would have gone instantly, had they been allowed to join as
Football only.Which is why the rumors of a Big East, Football-Only
Western Division is worth looking at. The Big East already has Basketball only
schools.Rename the Big East the Continental Conference.Eastern Division:UConnRutgersWest VirginiaSouth
FloridaCincinattiLouisvilleWestern Division: (football
only)BYUBoise St.Air ForceColorado St.HoustonSMU12 team BCS League or 14 teams, then add Navy
& CFUChampionship game in Yankee Stadium for BCS berth.Other programs...BYU-WCCAir Force-Missouri Valley WAC-Boise St.Colorado St.Houston SMU
It's probably all for the best that BYU stays independent. Based on how they
played at home against the 9th best team in the Pac-12, they are not ready to
join the big boys yet.
to Executorloh: What the Pac 12 will prove, if they move towards more teams is
that they don't want BYU for religious reasons. Its a very secular conference.
BYU may have better academics than any other school in the west, but any other
school will get an invite before the Cougs. Boise, SDSU, Fresno, Hawaii,
anyone else. And if academics are measured only by how much grant money a
school can suck out of the fed's, that's a brutally poor way to determine
academics. What every high school counselor in the state of Utah knows is that
if you're not really smart, don't apply at BYU, but you can at Utah.
@ Portland Trail BlazersTCU is affiliated with the church The Disciples of
Christ, weather or not they inforce the standards as heavily as BYU is not the
point. TCU is a religious school affiliated with a specific religion. Gifford
said the Big 12 was religiously intolerant, which is obviously not true
considering they just invited a school affiliated with the Disciples of Christ.
Does this make enough sense to you or should I write another paragraph
explaining it as if you were a 3 year old instead of a 5 year old as I just had
PAC:Nah, we don't comment on byu's desperate efforts to regain
relevance just to "bolster" ourselves. For that, all we need do is log
on to the BYUtv archive to watch the Beatdown in Provo.1. Oh look, there it
is--on the front of the "Football' page! Thanks!
PTB -- same with Baylor?
I hope this ends all of the speculation for at least a few months. I'm tired of
it and I wasn't ever all that desiruous of BYU leaving independence anyway. I
want to see how that plays out over the next several years.
With the Big12 recovering from its near-death experience, it is becoming clear
that if the Pac12 were to ever grow beyond 12 teams, it will have very few
options. With the ACC, SEC growing to 14, the Big12 may in the future if it
sees fit as it raids the Big East, is the Pac12 going to get left behind? There
are no more AAU members within a thousand miles of California and sadly Boise
State is half the research university of BYU.
BYU honorably pulled out of negotiations to possibly be on the invitee list.
After seeing Utah struggle with depth issues as they climb into the Pac-12, BYU
looked themselves in the mirror, said "Utah beat us by 44 points on our
home field, and look at the issues they are having stepping up a level,"
and correctly ran the other way.Very smart move. BYU
needs to schedule 7-8 wins a year with WAC games to satisfy their fanbase. They
don't care who the wins are against, they just need wins.
Well, this really comes as no surprise to me. I've said it all along:
mid-majors forever. And with that said, I have to laugh at the multitude of Y
fans who mocked me for saying that.
Big deal. An invitation will happen when it's time. Plenty of conference
alignment to happen in the future.Now it's time for every despondent
Ute fan after 0-3 and losing Wynn to an injury again to bolster themselves by
commenting on this article. If it makes you feel good... go for it.
We're here for you.
Best for BYU to stay independent for at least another year. AFter seeing what
Oklahoma did to Texas and looking at how tuff Okie state, K state and A&M
are best to not jump into that bees next next year. they will have a much
better record by sticking with next years schedule.
@truecoug1, perhaps but, I listen to 105.3 the Fan in Dallas and even the
extremely pro-TCU talk show hosts (Greggo in particular) have stated that TCU
got their invite because BYU all but, pulled out of discussion with the Big
12.Now, we really have no way of confirming exactly what happened
given BYU is run much like North Korea but, I think the truth lies somewhere in
the middle.Nonetheless, BYU needs to worry a lot more about
Independent scheduling and less about where they may fit with respect to a
sinking conference. I sure hope the athletic department didn't spend the time
some of us have debating on here over conference affiliation.
The Big 12 can expand East or expand West, but there isn't too much enthusiasm
to do both. TCU preserves both options and leaves the door open for BYU.
BYU stands about as much chance of getting voted into the Big 12, as Mitt Romney
has of getting the "evangelical" vote for the GOP nomination.
Regardless of whether Missouri leaves or more "openings" are created
in the Big 12, bible belt bias would exclude BYU, even if BYU on paper, should
be preferred to other candidate schools.
@ninersIf you've ever been to TCU's campus (I have friends that
attend school their), TCU feels just like any other public school such as
Arizona , Kansas, Syracuse. You might as well call University of
Arizona, Arizona Christian University...you clearly know nothing about TCU or
BYU. The CHRISTIAN name means nothing to them. TCU is very different
@gifford vanburen"So I guess the BIG 12 goes to show that it is
just a religiously intolerant as it's west coast brother."How
do you figure that? they just added texas CHRISTIAN university. Haha, just
because BYU got left out don't make excuses that make absolutely no sense...
Great News! I've always said that BYU needed to stay independent. The BIG-12 is
just not what it used to be. TCU? Yea, that's a comforting addition! I have a
feeling someone else in that conference will soon become unhappy. Let this Indie
move get somewhere! With ESPN, the Cougars are where they need to be. I have a
strange feeling that somehow, someway BYU will come out on top when everything
Reading the article, I don't think that the OU's president's view of BYU has
been soured at all. He said he would prefer looking east for expansion from a
geographical standpoint, but said that they had great choices both in the east
and west.My opinion of this whole deal (and obviously this is coming
from blue-tinted glasses) is that TCU got the invite ahead of BYU because if
they didn't get invited now, before they became full-fledged members of the Big
East, then the Frogs would have to wait the 27 months before they could switch
conferences. I think BYU may be the contingency plan to take Mizzou's spot if
and when they leave.It sounds like the Big XII anticipated Mizzou
staying for 2012, but now if Mizzou leaves after next year, BYU is the best
candidate to take their spot if the Big XII wants to get back to 10 schools
immediately, since any of the Big East schools wouldn't be able to join for 2+
years.All of this is pure conjecture on my opinion, just like all
the other rumors out there :)As it stands now, bring on
What BYU needs to do is an independent is start making new rivalries with teams
that you can play every year like Notre Dame does with USC, Michigan, Purdue,
etc.BYU needs to have and make rivalries with schools they can play
against every year such as TCU, Hawaii, Notre Dame, Boise State, a southern Cal
school--maybe UCLA, an east east school--maybe it will become Georgia Tech,and
maybe another school like Kansas State or Minnesota.
I am happy to see them stay independent for at least another year or two. If
football does go the superconference rout, which I don't think will happen for
several years at the earliest, BYU will be in. There are several schools in each
major conference who deserve to be there far less than some who are not there
@Gifford, it has nothing to do with religion at all. It more than likely has to
do with BYU pulling out of discussion with an unstable league. Check ESPN dot com. Missouri has now been granted another year to drag this
mess on as they decide what they want to do. BYU wants no part of that and even
as a fan who would prefer them in an AQ conference, I don't either.I
do however believe the difficulties with BYU from the previous discussions have
soured OU's President's view toward a future invite though. Sounds
like they had best get to work on Independent scheduling.
So I guess the BIG 12 goes to show that it is just a religiously intolerant as
it's west coast brother.
I have it on authority from a pay site that quotes an article that was posted on
a fan blog three months ago which claims to have talked to a person close to the
negotiations with special inside information about the contract details. BYU
has the invitiation in hand, and will accept this weekend or the next but
definitely before the Mayan calendar runs out.
So little TCU with its insignificant fan base jumped ahead of everyone in the
Big-12 invite queue line. Good for TCU!