Do what is right let the consequence follow.
If Mormons or members of the Church of Christ of Jesus Christ aren't Christians
and don't deserve the freedom of Religion or benefits of the first amendment,
then those of Jewish faith, Buddhists, Hindu's, Ba Ha faith, Muslims, etc.
shouldn't be given rights either. What's the country becoming, another fascist
state?Our Country was founded by people of different faiths - Puritan,
Quaker,and many others. That is what makes this country the best in the world.
This man's comments goes to show, we still are able to voice our
opinions... but true Christians would not put any one down because of their
faith or beliefs. As Jesus said ( paraphrasing) if thy enemy hit thee on thy
right, give him thy left. We should do unto others as thou would do to thyself.
I have met many evangelists who are wonderful people. It's a shame that
this comment represents the majority or does it? That's up to you.
This wrangling of faiths reminds me of my Baptist friend who told me the story
of someone dying and reporting to St. Peter at the gates of Heaven, where he was
led by several large halls of people enjoying their eternal reward, but when
approaching one room, St. Peter said to pass by quietly. After seeing a large
community of folks dressed in white, he asked St. Peter who were they? Oh,
those are the Mormons, they think they are the only ones up here.
More correctly put, Mormons are not Protestant Christians. They are not
protesting reformists of Catholicism. They are the restoration of Christ's
Church after the world-wide dark ages of apostasy.
'Pagan: Not all Mormons identify as republican.' - Freedom-In-Danger | 4:24 p.m.
Oct. 10, 2011 And I never made that claim. However, can
we agree that majority of Mormons in Utah vote Republican? I would think one
look at our local goverment, even redistricting can support that claim. And I'm sure there is plenty of room for discourse among the LDS faithful.
Semantics aside, regardless if Democrats treat blue-dog conservatives the same,
which, you have yet to support, the fact remains that the Republican party AS A
WHOLE, has yet to support the LDS faith. Example number one: Mitt
Romney running for Republican presidental nomimnee in 2008. Example
two: *'Polls: Mormonism won't hurt Mitt Romney like Perry might' -
By Hal Boyd, Deseret News - 09/06/11 Today. It's not
like Romney kept his faith a secret. It was only after Chris
Christie made public that he was not running for the Republican party has this
issue really peaked.
LDS Liberal: A good Mormon might also know that the LDS Church has stated that
one can be a member of most common political parties and be a good standing
member of the church.No one gets refused temple recommends for being
republican, democrat, conservative, or liberal. I think there are dramatic
problems within the republican party that entirely incompatible with LDS
beliefs. I also think the same thing about liberalism. While no party is
perfect, one would do better to forget them, and focus on following what is
right.Pagan: Not all Mormons identify as republican. Although
putting that aside, there is a problem that I think you misunderstood. If I knew
that being Mormon was right and true, etc. I would be Mormon, even if other
Mormons hated me for it. Just because other people treat the LDS Church well,
doesn't change how members should treat others and how members believe. Unlike
some groups and movements, I don't need people to agree with me, in order to
tolerate their views. Many democrats have treated blue-dog conservative
democrats just as poorly.
Fischer also said: "We need a president who believes in the same creator
that the Founders believed in."The founders believed in
Providence. They believed in God and his protecting hand, but not all of them
worshiped God as the Evangelical Christians do. I think Fischer needs to study a
little more American history before he makes such remarks.als
Atheist -Jesus Christ is the God of the Old Testament too - a lot of
destruction of the wicked by God in that book as well. The Jesus of the Book of
Mormon is not inconsistent.
'Like many in the religious "right" they have gladly accepted help
from Mormons in advancing their causes but then turn on them with hateful
bigotry when it suits them.' - ksampow | 1:41 p.m. Oct. 10, 2011
*'Fox News host: Romney not Christian' - By Hal Boyd, Deseret News - 07/17/11 Funny how that works. *'Trump on Obama's Birth Certificate:
'Maybe It Says He's a Muslim' - Fox Nation - 03/30/11 I do not
pretend to be Mormon, or vote Republican. But I will never
understand the support Mormons give the Republican party, when the Republican
party gives them nothing in return.
I am shocked that a leader of the A.F.A. would voice such religious bigotry. In
the past I have subscribed to their e-mail lists and signed many of their
petitions. Like many in the religious "right" they have gladly
accepted help from Mormons in advancing their causes but then turn on them with
hateful bigotry when it suits them.
Dennis - could please hip me to what "cult" like activities are? I eagerly await your response.
It is never a good idea to take the comments of a few individuals and generalize
those to represent a large group to which they belong. Too many of the comments
above do exactly that. No group is that homogeneous.
How in the heck do you go from "I don't believe you're a Christian" to
"you therefore don't have ANY First Amendment rights"?I
mean, how in the world does this guy make that jump in foolhardy logic?Just where in the Bill of Rights does it say "BTW, these rights are only
applicable to you if someone else thinks you're a Christian"?I'd say what I REALLY think about this guy but I don't think the DesNews
posting police would post it....To Mitt and other good people around
the world, no matter what your religious preference, stay the course. Stay the
According to the first paragraph of the article, Fischer said, "Latter-day
Saints aren't Christian and are therefore not entitled to First Amendment
protections." Why do you have to be Christian to be protected by the First
Amendment? I thought you just had to be American. What am I missing here?
As a good LDS member -- this is one of the very reasons why I can't be a
Republican, and question why other good LDS members choose to be Republican.And then there are the 1,000 and 1 other reasons....
I agree with Brian Fischer that the next President of the United States should
be an authentic, genuine, believer of the Christian Faith. That person is Mitt
Romney, and him alone. Let Fischer and his cohorts drown in their falsehood and
BMW | 5:48 a.m. Oct. 9, 2011 San Antonio, Texas Canuk-Who does Glenn
Beck speak for? Well...himself? Whew...I wouldn't want him speaking for me. If
Glenn wants to make a difference he should run for a political office and not
sell books to(prey) on Utah repubilicans. Are you saying that I
can't declare that I am a proud member of the Church of Jesus Christ and Jesus
is my Savior? Who the heck do you think he was talking for?
Let's not panic folks. Mr. Romney knows better than all of us combined just what
he is up against in securing the G.O.P. nomination. I'm sure he knows it is no
"slam dunk". He also knows just how to maintain the President-like
image while others self-destruct. He knows what battles to pick and so far he
is staying on topic:it's the economy!!! He truly possesses the ability to win
these folks over more and more every day in spite of the bigots in their midst
who continue to embarrass themselves. There truly are countless true
Christians among the born-again congregations who will vote for the right and
not the hate-filled orators who presume to speak for them.
Bryan Fischer, one of the anti speakers is on the board of AFA, American Family
Association. I paid dues to AFA for many years. The founder of AFA, I think
Bryan's father, assured me personally the AFA was not anti-Mormon. I asked him
this because shortly after I joined I received an anti mailing. I will never pay
another penny to that organization.
isred,I am not a republican. I am conservative. More importantly, I
support President Thomas S. Monson as a prophet of God here on this Earth. I
find no problems or doctrinal conflicts with every statement the Church has
released regarding issues such as, Abortion, Freedom, Same-sex marriage,
immigration, good stewardship, and many other things.Almost everyone
I have ever met or come across that professes to be a liberal member of the
church, has disagreed with the church on at least one and often many of these
issues.I don't really find anything humorous about this. You may
think I'm wrong, and that's fine. I can only share my personal experiences. But
in my eyes, I can't imagine a valid reason to laugh at other members of the
church. It does not seem appropriate to me. Perhaps I am again wrong, but I do
not believe so."Liberal" can be interpreted several
different ways with different outcomes. One can absolutely identify as a liberal
and be a good standing member of the church. However, one cannot stand against
what the church proclaims to be the truth of God and also claim to follow God's
Dennis:Your core statements- You need to realize your
"cult like" activities will appear "cult like"."If you don't think I'm right on target" then you're wrong.There is no argument in this. If going to church, reading scriptures, praying,
and putting ourselves to work for helping others- is odd, then I'll gladly be
odd.Even if one picked apart every last thing The Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints believes, I would hardly view such things as odd in
comparison of the nearly abandoned moral standards we see around us today.It wasn't long ago that there was a common understanding of religious
freedom and widespread respect for our families. Today we find a growing trend
of acceptance of infidelity, abandoning responsibility, and other things that
only bring harm to our loved ones.While the LDS Church is in the
world, we are not of the world. Just because some have stopped believing,
doesn't mean we have to.Cult literally means different. I'm a bit of
a geek myself, but that is a good thing about me. I believe in God. I believe in
freedom. I believe in family. If that's different, I don't mind. :)
als Atheist: Yes, there was great destruction following the death of Jesus
Christ. If people should read 3 Nephi 9 then they also ought to
read 3 Nephi chapters 11-26 which speaks of Christ's ministry among the people
of the Book of Mormon where he ministered to and blessed the people.They should also read Moses chapter 7. Here the Lord speaks with Enoch prior
to the time of Noah and the flood. The city of Enoch or Zion was taken off the
earth. Over the residue of the people who remained the Lord wept for them. Great judgements have fallen upon the wicked, but the Lord takes no
pleasure in their destruction.
I don't agree with the words of the pastor. But part of me can't help but
chuckle a little at the right in the LDS church getting a taste of their own
medicine. The far right LDS are always quick to tell
liberal/moderate members that disagree with them that they aren't true followers
of the prophet, but can't take it when someone else launches a similar charge at
Filo Doughboy More distracions and feigned offense. How disingenuous.
Instead of going to your Bible to see why Biblical Christians are warned about
false teachers and teachings, you continue to cling to the counterfeit: another
gospel, another Jesus. (Galations 1:6-8)LDS4Sorry, but as has
been shown, the Athanasian Trinity comes from pagan/Greek origins and not the
Bible. It teaches another gospel, another Jesus. (Galations 1:6-8). Requiring
a belief in it to be considered Christian is "adding to" the word of
God. The Bible contains no such requirement. You are simply "teaching for
doctrines the commandments of men." (Matt.15:9).Neither Pastor
Jeffress nor Evangelicals own the copyright to the title "Christian".
Devout LDS look forward to the day when our Christianity is judged since it will
be judged by Christ per Biblical priciples and not principles from those
"(d)esiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say
nor whereof they affirm." (1 Tim. 1:7). That verse is best illustrated by
those who try to explain the Athanasian Trinity to someone who actually knows
the Bible. It's a hoot!
You really can't complain about the perception of the outside world.When
you involve yourselves in "cult" like activities you have to be ready
for the criticism. If you don't think I'm right on target, you need to take a
look at your behavior and think about what "others" perception may be.
How ironic. Baptists allow a man salvation if he says "Jesus save me!"
But Pope Fisher decides that he is the judge of orthodoxy? How Baptist is that?
Tolerance of others' faith is difficult, because everyone wants to be true to
their own beliefs, go figure...
The idea that Bryan Fischer, a bigot of the worst kind, holds such sway with the
far right fringe of the Republican party says a lot. Romney, a moderate to his
core, and the only GOP candidate who could viably beat Obama, should put a
permanent end to pandering to such people.
Folks should bee careful about throwing stones. The anti-mormon zealots who
constantly parrot the "yer not Christians" line could equally be
gratuitously dismissed by a quote from the Bible: " 21Not
every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of
heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy
name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful
works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart
from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:21-23) Kind of
sums up the fate of intolerant bigots who have the temerity to tell others what
the "are" and "are not." I suggest they follow another
biblical passage: "Judge not that ye be not judged" (Matthew 7,1)
Grace" They changed the sacrifices that went on in Israel's holy
temples to marriages and baptisms" Hmmm Does that mean that all other
"Christian" religions still do the same sacrifices that were done in
Israel's temples? I would love to come observe that. Do other religions accept
and believe branches that have broken off from the main stream? Does every
person in the world who believes in Christ believe in the same person? When you
think of "mother" Do you think of the same person as I do? The I
guess whoever you think of isn't your mother because you aren't thinking the
same thing as I am. Who can say the "Christ" they believe in is the
same Christ that walked and taught in Galilee and suffered in Gethsemane for our
sins? What makes what you believe any more accurate or true than what I
believe? Each of us is free to believe what we believe.
Well Read should read up!Who does he think comprise the tea party?
Certainly not the far right. they are never out of line. They are courteous,
well signed, and united in their love for our freedoms and constitution. Mitt
Romney is a center line Republican who loves freedom and the constitution. He is
the man for our day.He is Mr. Fix It in business and in repairing the huge
damage done to our country by Barak Obama and the left wingers.
No, Filo DoughBoy, good question. Honest people would reply.Mormons
will not let you call yourself a fellow LDS just because you claim a vision,
rewrite the Book of Mormon and go around doing lots of great charity. Yet they
insist that Biblical Christians let them claim that title based on those very
actions from 1830 on. They changed the sacrifices that went on in Israel's holy
temples to marriages and baptisms. They added books and ordinances and food laws
to heaven's requirements. They changed the nature and DNA of God, humanized Him
and gave man deification potential. Instead of ruling with Christ, we get to
become ones. They propagated the God of the Bible's heaven with the same
polygamous principles as Islam, yet they are upset that followers of the
original Christ (first revealed and written about from 40-90 AD), don't say
you're one of us.They won't acknowledge the FLDS as fellow Mormons,
even though they follow all of Joseph's teachings. Yet they wanna join our
ranks? They made that distinction in 1830.So, no. LDS will not
allow us into their church, temples or heaven, just because we tried to crash
Anthracite, you are somewhat correct, they don't get into the knitty gritty with
each individual religion. Instead, they just lump all Christians together, call
us all bigots because we don't all follow "their" way of thinking, and
so forth. The left-leaning media make all Christians look bad, and like we are
all leaning in one direction, that we don't think, that we're all hateful. I'm
sorry, but I take issue with that.As for myself, I am LDS, mostly
pro-gay, but feel that everybody's opinion counts and so to me, meeting in the
middle is where it's at. But nobody (on either side) wants to meet in the
middle.The problem is A) our two-party system and B) PRIDE.
"You're wrong, and I'm right." I cry bull on that.
It would be easier for an elephant to pass through the eye of a needle than for
a "God Maker" to become president of the United States.
From an Amazon poster:QUOTEThe problem is that when someone says,
"Mormons aren't Christian" there's a huge gasp from the listener. The
listener doesn't hear that the LDS church is doctrinally different.The
listener hears that the LDS people don't believe in Christ. That is inaccurate.
Ask any LDS person if they believe in Christ and they will say, "Yes".
Why don't people just start calling the LDS church non-orthodox Christians
(or Restorationist Christians as found on religioustolerance dot org)? Throw it in our face that we don't believe as you do, but accept the fact that
we do believe in Christ.END QUOTEI agree 100 percent with the
I feel that Pastor Jeffress chose the wrong place to express his personal
religious views on civic voting, although I understand his message. Part of the
problem with his position is that we can't judge a person's sincerity when
they're seeking office, or even their claim to be a born-again believer (i.e.,
spirit-filled). This wasn't the RNC, but the Values Summit, so he could express
his values. He has also supported Senator Lieberman because of his Biblical
positions.But he was speaking to a target group: Evangelicals
supporting Romney, who are ignorant of Mormon doctrine, thereby assuming that he
is a Biblical Christian. Because Romney and most Mormons continue to insist
that they are "Christians just like all you Christians", the lazy
public don't do their homework. They don't read every LDS prophet's insistence
that all other churches are wrong, and that "the LDS Church is not part of
the historic Christian church", (Pres. Hinkley on Larry King, 2001)If voters ask for full disclosure of a candidate's religious beliefs,
they should be given. If he refuses to define his religious terms, then
it's research time. Southern Baptists consulted LDS teachings in light of the
NeilT:Read all the article and research all of Jeffress'
comments:1- He never said anything about non-evangelicals being unfit for
presidency. He said he would vote for Romney if he gets the Republican
nomination. He only qualified his opinion that Christians should vote
Christian, if a qualified candidate has Biblical policies. His example was
Pres. Obama claiming to be Christian but espousing unbiblical policies.2- He spoke as a pastor, to evangelicals, his personal opinion, to which he
said Perry probably did not agree. I don't think this was the proper venue, but
he didn't break any constitutional laws Had he kept it in his pulpit, there
would be no flap. Just like all of my LDS family prefer Romney over others more
conservative, they trust "their own".3- He only speaks
for himself and made that clear. Don't lump all evangelicals into one person.
We don't quote Warren Jeffs for all Mormons, or for all FLDS.4- He
was reiterating what the So. Baptist Convention has officially stated for years
re: which churches or groups they consider outside Biblical teachings. You're
just one of many who qualify per your own statements: Only LDS are right.
Enough with the "no religious test" comments. Everybody knows that
refers to LAWS that require a religious test. Individual voters and
organizations like this values group CAN and DO use religious tests in
evaluation of candidates.And please stop bashing Baptists in
response to this pastor's comments. Isn't that the eye-for-an-eye approach?
"You bashed us Mormons, so we're gonna' bash you back!" That'll show
'em!If we LDS want to be understood on our own terms, we must first
seek to understand others on their own terms.How many of us have
truly taken the time to learn about the doctrines and history of the Baptists?
Have we learned from official publications and representatives of the Baptist
religion, or have we just listened to what other LDS have told us? We expect
others to learn of us through the Church website, by reading the Book of Mormon,
by watching General Conference, and by participating in the missionary
discusions.How many of us have watched Baptist broadcasts with a
sincere heart, with real intent? How many of us have participated in Bible Study
with a Baptist pastor?Treat others as we want to be treated.
To Als Atheist. You're comments are a gross distortion of LDS beliefs and
aren't even worthy of a rebuttal. There is no salvation in the law of moses.
That is a core of LDS doctrine and does not contradict any scripture. How can
a church which helps millions of people through it's humanitarian services,
social and welfare program be defined as a cult. Satan does not go about doing
good in the world. Latter Day Saints do. God has never sent destruction
without first sending prophets to warn people. The idea that God delights in
human suffering or destruction is ludicrous. It is evangelicals that believe in
literal heaven or hell. Christians make no allowance for non-believers who had
no opportunity to be born again in this existence.
Well, Paul won hands down. He had 600 people come and listen to his talk, they
voted and walked out. They listened to no one else. The people in charge are
saying it's a false vote and can't be validated. So even they are not relying on
it. Romney was way down, so Perry's minister had a real effect. I wonder if Beck
had spoken before Romney if he would've gotten the cold shoulder. Beck made no
bones about what church he belonged to and the Jesus was his Savior. He got a
standing ovation. I wonder if he changed any minds. I know he doesn't support
anyone, but his testimony of Christ might have helped.
"No religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office
or public Trust under the United States." I think that you
clearly do not understand the intent of this line.Regardless of
Religion or race, etc etc one cannot be excluded from being on the ballot.People are free to use what ever criteria they choose in their voting
preference.Including Race, Religion, height or weight, hair color or
favorite ice cream flavor.
Sometimes I ask myself, does anyone actually ever read the first amendment? The
first sentence reads, Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . . Though the
founders were by and large Christians, they did not specifically put in the
term, Christian religion. I believe the First Amendment applies to all
law-abiding Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, Confucianists, etc.,
etc. In my understanding, that is the whole point of the first part of the
First Amendment. I believe it is very inapropriate to say as did Bryan Fisher
as referenced in the article - that the First Amendment protects only
Christians. I try to follow Jesus Christ. As such, I feel it is my duty to
strive for tolerance and respect for those who choose other religious creeds.Also, Joseph Smith added further clarity to freedom of religion in the
Eleventh Article of Faith: We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God
according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same
privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
Nobody gets to look objectively at what is a cult or religion or whatever,
because people who believe do so as a matter of faith and therefore objectivity
and proof aren't necessary. And that is exactly why religion needs to be kept
out of politics. Romney should have told the world his religion was none of our
business, and stick to his platform. Instead, they all chose to walk out into
the muck, and sooner or later they all get covered in mud.
The scariest part of this whole issue is that there are persons with some
influence out there actually claiming that religious freedom should not apply to
everyone, just to evangelical protestants. The thing that makes the US great is
the mix of cultures, faiths and ethnic origins - there is (or used to be) a
place for everyone. If this intolerant attitude gains influence in government,
that whole "constitution hanging by a thread" thing will have become a
This wouldn' have anything to do with Romney being the frontrunner would it?
Just a thought. When I was in Elementary school a friend and his family visited
Georgia during the summer. He told me that some people there thought Mormons
had horns. I couldn't believe people could be so stupid or uniformed. Believe
it.I find it interesting that evangelicals claim to revere the
constitution and yet conveniently ignore it when certain parts don't fit their
agenda. Doesn't the constitution make ir clear that anyone can serve in public
office regardless of their relgion or lack if it. Evangelicals have made it
clear that if you don't embrace their version of christianity you are unfit to
be president. A thought about the tea party. There are times they
have been uncivil and some of their followers do have bigoted views. I can
More distracions and feigned offense. How disingenuous. Instead of going to
your Bible to see why Biblical Christians are warned about false teachers and
teachings, you continue to cling to the counterfeit: another gospel, another
Jesus. (Galations 1:6-8)So how will you react if I start a
little "group" with my own revelations, scriptures, and artifacts and
tell you that we are now the true Mormon church? You'll just roll over and let
me join your party?
Is there an article anywhere on this site that actually lists the results of
this summit? I tried searching for santorum and only got something from before
the vote. There's two articles about Romney and another with Romney's remarks. I
understand that the anti-Mormon stuff will be highlighted in this newspaper, but
come on... at least report the results too. If there isn't any reporting of the
results that just makes the paper look biased to not note that Romney got
decimated in this straw poll (I had to use a different site to find them).
this Preacher Fisher will not even be a foot note in history and will dry up and
"No religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office
or public Trust under the United States." -U.S. Constitution, Article VI.
Mormons are ignoring one important thing: from the evangelical perspective, your
religion IS very cult-like, and the Jesus you preach IS alien to New Testament
Christianity. Try to understand where evangelicals are coming from (that is what
you demand of everyone else - learn of Mormonism, you insist).3
Nephi 9 DOES present a distasteful picture of Jesus, destroying entire cities
then threatening survivors with destruction if they don't worship him. There is
nothing like that view of Jesus in the New Testament, and it directly contrasts
with the living Jesus' life and teachings of peace, love, and mercy in the NT. A
POTUS who believes in the angry Jesus could do unspeakable things.The 3rd Article of Faith DOES say salvation (may) come to mankind "by
obedience to the laws and ordinances", which directly contradicts
everything Paul wrote: there is NO salvation through the law (Torah), and the
promise of salvation given to Abraham was given 400 years BEFORE the law was
given. Focus on rites, rituals, laws and ordinances IS very cult-like and
dangerous for all the reasons Paul gave.These are just two examples
of the evangelical perspective on Mormonism. They are not trivial.
Who cares what people call you? Just respond with kindness and go on with your
Latter Day Saints will either allow these remarks to prove that we believe in
Jesus Christ and prove it by our actions, or that we do not believe in him and
rant and rave about the continued attacks on our beliefs. I agree with how
Romney handled the situation. His speech was patriotic, articulate,
conservative, on point, and complete. He needed to say no more and he needed to
address no further issues. There comes a point in everyone's life that they must
determine what they believe, regardless of who or what comes after them. I,
personally, believe in Jesus Christ and will continue to do so. It seems to me
that Romney has done the same.
It is of great concern that people who profess to be followers of Christ would
spend their efforts spreading propaganda against the LDS faith, rather than to
focus on bringing a worthy and experienced leader in to meet the task of
literally saving our country from imploding. This reminds me of
those in the book/movie "The Help" who considered themselves Christian
and treated other humans with such disdain. Though it isn't much consolation
during this serious contest for president, all people will someday meet the Lord
at the judgement bar and will become more enlightened as to the consequences of
their misdirected actions. With the influence and notoriaty of
Jeffress and Fischer, it seems they could be doing so much more to advance the
Lord's kingdom, rather than spreading lies and encouraging hate. A very sad
Jeffress said, "Do we want a candidate who is a good, moral person? Or do
we want a candidate who is a born-again follower of the Lord Jesus
Christ?"Yes, born-again Christians and good, moral people are
Okay I've seen examples of superiority complexes and self righteousness within
some of the members of various religions over the years. I've always likened it
to sports rivalries. But to say that someone is not entitled to First
Amendment protections simply because you feel they don't have the same beliefs
that you do? That is beyond ridiculous.
Tell me what about the tea party is extreme?OK KM1)
they love candidates like Bachmann and Palin. The rest of us know
that those 2 are not presidential material. That is EXTREME.2) The
T.Party is fine with shutting down the govt to make a point. Reasonable
people pay the bills for things that they bought in the past. That is
extreme.3) The T.Party demands that taxes are not raised from the
lowest levels in 50+ years. They would be mad at a deal that
includes $10 in spending cuts to $1 in tax increase. That is
EXTREME4) Their stance that ALL GOVT Regulation is bad is EXTREME.
Fix the problems but dont shut down the EPA or the FDA. THey do much
good. We need a party that ONLY wants to tackle FISCAL
issues. THat is Not the T party.
Canuk-Who does Glenn Beck speak for? Well...himself? Whew...I wouldn't want him
speaking for me. If Glenn wants to make a difference he should run for a
political office and not sell books to(prey) on Utah repubilicans.
What? These are fine words from Fischer. (today only perhaps) The elephant is
really invisible if this is the worst they have on Romney's faith but not a
clear statement against Romney."immediately proclaimed that the
next president must be of 'sincere, authentic, genuine, Christian faith'"
"We need a president who believes in the same creator that the
Founders believed in."To those that know Mormons, they will
hear these words and include Romney.
Let me get this straight. Mormons aren't Christian because they believe in the
Biblical Christ and they do not accept the non Biblical Christ described in the
man-made creeds written hundreds of years after Christ. Mormons aren't
Christians because they love Jesus and strive to keep his commandments and
believe there are favorable eternal consequences for those that diligently
strive to follow Him. "Real" Christians believe that all you have to
do is "accept" Christ and you are home free. Striving to obey
Christ's commandments is a waste of time and has no eternal consequences.
@annewandering:"Texas governor did not say that Romney was not
a good follower of Christ."He may not have said it but 10 to 1
he was nodding in silent agreement.
Let the truth be known. This pastor is a surrogate to do the dirty work for
Perry. He makes the claim. Perry denies believing in it. But the damage gets
done.Let the truth also be known. The preacher industry of the Bible Belt
feels their business is threatened by other growing religions, especially the
Mormons. It translates into lost dollars.
What happens when you can't argue your way out of a challenge to your believs
using knowledge? Values!
One more reason why any candidate endorsed by the Toilet Paper Party will not
get my vote. Extremism is by definition opposed to conservativism.
The TP is extreme, just as dangerous in my view as the far left.
I saw that pastor Jeffress on Fox saying that we are a cult because cults are
founded by men, rather than by Jesus as he claimed his church was. He also
stated that we are a cult because we believed in an open canon.His
first claim is laughable because the Southern Baptist Convention, to which he
belongs, was founded over the issue of whether clergy could keep slaves. The
SBC said that they could and broke away from other Baptists. The Catholics
would also laugh at his claim that Jesus founded.As far as an open
canon, the early Christians believed in it enough to allow the writings of the
apostles to be given more weight than the hebrew prophets. A number of
Protestant theologians also admit that the verse in Revelation allegedly
forbidding adding to the bible refers only to the Revelation and not the Bible
as a whole since it wasn't assembled as a whole for another 200 years.Since the doctrine of the Trinity is a mixture of Christianity and Greek/Pagan
philosophy, Evangelicals really should be careful with calling others a cult.
The phrase Pot-Kettle-Black comes to mind.
well readYou and other extremist leftist call names at the tea party
saying they are "extreme and radical." Tell me what about the tea
party is extreme? Is it that they want to slow down or stop the out of control
spending by our congress? Is that so radical?
BH, Great comment! Personally, I am ashamed of what many people have made the
Republican party into. I am an old style conservative that believes that
liberalism and conservatism are being twisted today to counter our freedom.
Mainstream television and online media and their worshipers aid this fallacious
logic and I find it very displeasing.Phranc, I can easily see where
you are coming from. There are certainly those that think that all Islamic
persons are terrorists and want to destroy our freedom (even against their own
religious leaders cautions). I know people who are very intelligent, capable,
and mostly kind- yet hate all immigrants, anyone Islamic, and so on. It's
hypocritical and wrong. I hardly view the idea as conservative, if you read my
above rational... I think this is sadly one of these 'twists'.I
personally believe there are far more threats from the 'main stream' that demand
agreement from 'party members' and a lack of representation in favor of
non-representative popular acceptance- and many other problems in our broken
system.Peter, while I personally find Romney the logical choice in
many regards- I also agree with your small government premise and voting on
It seems to me the Republican Party is on the verge of making sure that the
American Voters re-elect President Obama. There has never been either a far
right or a far left candidate for president elected President. I do not believe
it will happen in 2012. If the Republican party does not quit
pandering to the T Party - they will lose the election and possibly control of
the house. History has shown that the united States has always been
governed either center left or center right. The thinking American
voter are getting very tired of the T Party who have brought the government to
the brink of a shut down twice. Threatened once, and will probably again try to
shut down the government in November when the continuing resolutions will need
to be passed. If they do in will probably assure that the Republicans lose big
in 2012. My opinion!
"Elephant" is appropriate. The donkey doesn't make an issue of such
There was no reason to respond. All he had to do was ignore it and move on. A
response only feeds the trolls that have nothing of substance or validity to
offer anyone. Politicians have large egos. Sometimes those egos get in the way.
Mr. Romney needs to ignore ignorance.
To suppose that Mitt Romney is something other than what he represents himself
to be is nothing more than mystifying. As has been alluded to before, when
anybody else does something it is all right but boy when a Mormon comes along
look out. Give me a break! Religion aside,there is a standard and if one
represents the standard as it ought to be, then look out you are in fact in for
a good experience. And Mr. Romney does in fact represent that standard and he
does it well.
Isn't it unfortunate that we need to vote for someone based on who can beat
Obama instead of someone who is founded on Constitutional principles, i.e. small
central government, etc. I think that the GOP has many good candidates that
will help right the ship economically. But, who can win this race that will
downsize big government? Are the people ready to return to self-reliance and
independence, relying less on government dole?
@voice of reason because so many people that visit these threads
seem to unjustly fear islam and think the Islamic religion is going to take
I am proud of Romney for not sinking to their level. I think Romney gave a
fantastic speech and I would definitely have given him a standing ovation if I
had been there. Romney is our country's best chance to regain what we have lost.
Phranc: It seems to me the LDS church and its members have far more
to fear here in the US from the christian right then they ever will from the
islamic religion or atheists.Great observation Phranc. Persicuting
Latter Day Saints by right wing "Christians" fulfills biblical
prophecy. We who believe and serve in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day
Saints should feel complemented by their verbal persecution. They obviously
think even less of non believers and our Jewish and Muslem brothers. Are we to
be considered infedels too?
A Christie Candidacy Would Cripple Romney - If Christie runs, though, it would
be a calamity for Romney. While it is fashionable to paint the Republicans as a
party of extremists, the truth is that the GOP is variegated. Are Mormons
Christians, in your view? Should the fact that Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman are
Mormons influence how we think of them as candidates?. 1. Though you were
reared Mormon, you have described yourself as not overly religious. I can
imagine that is doubly unhelpful in winning the votes of evangelical Christians
who figure so heavily in the Republican primary season: on the one hand, many of
them have been taught that the Mormon church is a cult on the other, many of
them are looking for a candidate they regard as godly. How do you persuade
conservative evangelicals to vote for you? More question's for Romney.2. If not religion, what do you use as your guide in deciding what is right
and what is wrong?3. Was your religion a factor in your decision to
support gay marriage and civil unions?
It was a just a matter of time that the negativity turned to this. I don't
think anyone is surprised. But you know what, if it wasn't his mormonism, it
would be something else. There is always going to be a group, a certain part of
the population that feels the need to judge and dislike another group based on
any number of reasons. If you are the governor of New Jersey, it is weight.
It could be anything. Age, race, ethnicity, religion, career, home state,
school he went to..... the color of his shirt.So I really don't
worry too much about these types of things. Someone is going to dislike you.
Not much you can do about it. In this case it is self righteous
evangelicals.... which is fine because I don't see them as being too Christian
either. Works out well that way....
Gov. Perry's silence is just fine. It clearly shows that he is a bigot if he is
not willing to denounce his minister buddy who is willing to deny Mormons and
other people of Religion a basic right! Gee Wiz why not stand silent on this and
other matters Gov. Perry? Can't you figure out without your handlers what the
right thing to do is? Sure Gov. Perry don't defend fellow Americans. But then,
don't figure on getting the nomination either! You need to carry every state you
can. If the Republican Party truelly has a big tent then someone's religion will
not be an issue. This is great, fundamentalist Christians who support Perry and
believe this minister speaks the truth are in fact similarly guilty as was
President Obama of sitting in Rev. Wrights congregation and never saying
anything about the vile words of hatred he spewd. Look at what we got! If you
want to learn English ask a English Professor. If you want to learn Math ask a
Math professor. If you want to learn about Mormonism ask a Mormon. If you want
to lose the election Mr. Perry ask your minister to speak louder!
annewandering, thank you for the correction. I actually did know this but I
copied the paragraph and simply removed everything but the quote and the wrong
name by mistake. Pastor Robert Jeffress is the correct reference.I
believe Perry said something along the lines of 'It's not my place to judge
others, that's for God to do'.-------Phranc,I actually believe that there is a great deal of the evangelical world that
would embrace either LDS teachings, or at least would embrace the LDS Church as
a 'Christian neighbor' (so to speak...) if they understood our position and not
what others would make it out to be. If one reads the Bible, they can find it's
words. If one reads a criticism of the Bible, they will find only words used
against the Bible. If one truly wishes to understand the beliefs of the LDS
Church, whether to inquire or to simply be informed, they would do best by
learning from the Church and not those against the Church.Question:
I've never seen Islamic attacks on LDS views. Some atheists have, as I believe
atheism, unlike agnosticism, is inherently 'anti-theism' and 'against others
beliefs' ... but why Islam?
Glenn Beck at his talk to the same forum said that he held no grudge about what
was said. Then he said "I am a proud member of the Church of Jesus Christ
of Ladder Day Saints and Jesus is my Savior." At the end of his talk, he
received a standing ovation. The talk was worth hearing. Thanks Glenn for
not skirting the issue and declaring what you believe!
Comments by many associated with the Republican party, such as those made by
Fisher and Jeffress, are the sort of thing that have made so many like myself no
longer want to be associated with that party any longer. I am still a strong
conservative, but because of people like this I would never call myself a
Republican. These people teach hatred in the name of Christ. And then they
have the nerve to stand in judgement of others, such as the faith of Islam,
stating that it is a religion of "war and violence and death". I would
challenge Mr. Fisher to look at some of the terrible things that have been done
in this world in the name of Christianity.Bill Bennett hit the nail
when he said "they must not 'give voice to bigotry,' arguing that ugly
distractions like these would hurt the GOP." Thank you, Mr. Bennett, for a
voice of reason on a time when there seems to be so little.
Mr.Romney should really come to his senses and cease courting the support of
people who are,for the most part,certainly not going to vote for him..And I have
quite a bit of personal experience with evangelicals in which to state an
informed opinion...I grew up Catholic around such spiritual zealots and quite
often felt the brunt of their intolerance,bigotry,and downright hatred..Among
the nicer things I was called "Timmy, are nothing but a no-good papist
reprobate who,if you do not get yourself saved,are doomed to eternity with
Lucifer and his demons"...Actually I cleaned it up quite a bit so it might
be printed..My point is this,southerners,mostly,hate Catholics,Mormons,and
Minorities and they are very resistant to change and if Mitt Romney thinks they
are going to support him,when push comes to shove,he is certainly engaging in
delusional behavior..I do pity him as I think it is inherently wrong to judge a
person by personal religious belief..He needs to stand up to these people,shun
them,or they are going to cut him off at the knees..
Do the leaders of the LDS church and Mormons in general still think that the new
Tea Party dominated GOP is where they belong. Quit fighting the Democrats on
homosexuality and imagined socialist agendas made up by the propaganda and think
instead about when and where the new ultra-right wingers would intern the
non-christians. According to the leaders of the Tea Party
Republicans no Mormon is fit to be president and no Mormon is protected by the
first amendment.About time the Tea Party showed their true colors.
To a Voice of Reason. Texas governor did not say that Romney was not a good
follower of Christ. That was the minister. Go back and check and not the comma.
Not that I support Perry because I dont but I had heard he actually defended
It seems to me the LDS church and its members have far more to fear here in the
US from the christian right then they ever will from the islamic religion or
From the article - Texas Gov. Rick Perry, said yesterday that Romney isn't a
"genuine follower of Jesus Christ"If one's definition of
being a "genuine follower of Jesus Christ" is by spending one's time
criticizing other people for their believing in Jesus Christ- then I suggest
there is a serious difference in how some people are defining
"genuine" and "follower". One cannot say "I follow
Christ" and their actions not reflect such words, but reflect personal
Doesn't it kind of remind you of the question about satan? It givesperry
plausible deniability, but the damage is out there.The EPA is shutting
down power plants (28 giga whatever), prices willskyrocket, people will
die; fast & furious is killing Americans and a couple of hundred
Mexicans thanks to this admin letting guns walk across the border (2,000) with
our tax money; solydra is a mess, but "not all companies will succeed"
the Pres says, but it's not his money- 1/2 billion that is - no apologies,
nothing; 7 billion was thrown out on Friday to other solar companies or
the money would have go back to the gov!But we are concerned about
"how many angels can sit on the head of a pin".