Who is Bryan Fischer anyway? Never heard of him until I read this article. His
opinion doesn't matter anyway. The supreme court interprets the Constitution.Besides what authority does Fischer have to tell a religious group if
they believe in Christ or not? I didn't realize that Fischer has all of the
rights and patents to Jesus.I wonder how much money Fisher makes, by
attacking people? Is it as much as Al Gore with his fear mongering? or Michael
Moore and the vitrol he spreads?
love bomb sounds great. If most Christians would only read the Book
of Mormon they would understand that Mormons are Christian. Some
understand the BoM only as interpreted to them by those who, like Judas, betray
the Saviour for a little silver or some other gain. Good Christians the world
over have often misunderstood what memebers of the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter Day Saints really believe. Sometimes they think they know, and say they
"researched" it, but rarely take time to read the Book of Mormon. I hope they read. Examples of misleading things believed about
LDS:Don't worship Jesus.(although teh BoM testifies of Christ with
the sacred Bible)Don't believe Jesus is God.Worship Adam
(in spite of all BY said to the contrary.)Support polygamy (not just
Abraham, JS, etc, but Jeffs types, this in spite of LDS getting all the
blame for passing "one woman" 08.)The BoM has no evidence
(it has mountains)Joseph Smith was proven a false prophet (not)LDS are primarily racist Americans (although most LDS arent white
Americans, BoM "white" represented religiosity (see FAIRlds)and early
LDS were attacked for teaching free blacks would "outshine" highest
Bryan Fischer definitely has an interesting take on the first ammendment. First
of all, the term Christian/Christianity isn't in the first ammendment. Second,
it doesn't make any attempt to exclude certain religions. Third, the first
ammendment also guarantees freedom of speech and freedom of the press. Does
Bryan believe that freedom of the press only belongs to Christian publications?
And does he believe that we are only free to speek about Christianity? If so,
I'm interested to see if his speech covers any topics other than Christianity.
One thing that Mitt should remember "Give not that which is
holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample
them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." Matt 7In
other words - don't engage!! Those whose hearts are unholy and bigoted will
never change their thinking anyway so don't try otherwise you will just get
trampled in the mud. Besides who is this guy anyway and why does he matter. The
target is NOT Romney - it is Obama for the vast majority of the GOP and
independents and for the nuts on the far right like this guy - who cares?
Mitt will speak to those reasonable people he feels he might reach with reason.
This Fisher guy is seems to lack ability to reason. I hope Mitt speaks to
clearly explain his vision for, hopes for America. Fair-minded folks will have
a chance to hear it, and compare it to whatever Mr.Fisher says.
Sometimes, freedom can be a double-edged sword. Romney should invoke Voltaire:
"I may not agree with what you're saying but I defend to the death your
right to say it!" Didn't Romney win the straw poll at this convention a few
years back? Well, let's just press forward, march on and carry on!
I write only to note that Bryan Fischer's argument that the framers intended for
religious liberty to be extended only to Christian groups is wrong. In his notes
opposing aid to only Christian groups in Virginia, Madison, the father of the
First Amendment, pointed out that aid limited to Christian society and churces
would require that courts determine what is and what is not Christian, setting
up by their fiat a standard of orthodoxy on the one hand and of heresy on the
other, which would be destructive of the rights of religious conscience (free
exercise of religion). Later, Madison argued, wisely I believe, that preference
for Christian groups would make it less appealing for religionists of other
faiths (he specifically mentionened Islam) to come to this country where they
might be converted to Christianity not by government but by believers. He argued
that Christianity needs only equality not the false props of government to make
its case. I join Madison in wondering if Mr. Fischer is so insecure in his faith
that he needs government to privilege it. I believe God will do that if only
there is equality and nonpreference.
Bravo, madisonian moderate.Besides, Mitt Romney has ALREADY
addressed the issue of religious freedom for all in his "Faith in
America" speech at the Bush Presidential Library during the LAST
presidential election campaign. Anyone who wants Romney's views on the issue
can look it up on the internet! Besides, the Mormon Articles of
Faith affirm belief in relgious freedom for ALL people. It is the American
view, the unalienable right to "liberty" endowed on us by our Creator,
contrary to Bryan Fischer's "established church" view that was
rejected by Article VI of the Constitution, and the First Amendment. There is no reason Romney needs to get into a personal attack on anyone, even
those who criticize Mormons, even though such dissension would entertain and
gratify people on the political Left. As Joanna Brooks noted,
Mormons do NOT go in for arguments with their critics. When anti-Mormons picket
new Mormon temples, they take lemonade and cookies out to the picketers. When
anti-Mormons picket Church Headquarters during General Conference, the Mormons
say "thanks for the tract" and walk on past. The Mormons
out-Christian the "Christians", so Mormons grow while Baptists shrink.
The election is about economic policy, medical insurance, foreign affairs,
energy, etc., not about theology. Bryan Fischer is not involved in any of those,
thankfully. Let him have a frenzied tent meeting with the fundamentalists and
leave sane people alone.
1. Mormons get all bent out of shape when some other group who believes in the
Book of Mormon tries to call themselves Mormons as well.2. *sigh*
You cannot convince people that their logic is wrong by appealing to a book that
they don't believe in anyway.3. Mormons may not know anything about
Bryan Fischer, but he has serious cred amongst evangelical Christians.
Fischer's fanbase isn't voting for Mitt Romney.The comments to this
article make me realize, more and more, that Utah Mormons simply are too naive
to understand national politics.
From a certain standpoint, Bryan Fischer could be considered a professional
bigot: he makes a living by promoting one view and denigrating all others. He's
not a lawyer, and his argument about religious freedom wouldn't stand up in
court, and I'm sure he knows it. But he also knows that, whether he goes to
court or not, he can take this argument to the bank because there are people who
support the things he stands for with their pocketbooks. Fortunately, he
doesn't have a monopoly on public opinion.
I think Romney must respond to this criticism. The disinformation being spread
by this Pastor hurts the image of the Church and makes the missionaries' jobs
tougher. Romney must stand for the truth. Though we have 14 million members,
only 20% in foreign countries have remained involved. And here in the U.S. its
40% at best. We can't stand idly by while others slander our beliefs or we will
see the membership numbers continue to decline.
To junkgeek:Regardless who Bryan Fischer is and what credibility he
holds, his views are bigoted to say the least. Further he has no more knowledge
of what members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints than we know
what Muslims believe.Secondly, just because some group who believes
in the Book of Mormon does not make them Mormon as to be Mormon, you MUST be a
member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The same thing is
true for Protestants, Baptists and such. You don't refer to them a Catholic
even though they all are sects of the Roman Catholic Church. The same with any
evangelical as they are all sects of the Roman Catholic Church, but not one of
them refer to themselves as Catholic.Your comments helps me to
understand even more than many people have no idea who we are and what we
believe in. Most of the differences between us and mainstream christians is
THEOLOGICAL, nothing more, nothing less.
junkgeekand you are so smart and utahans are so dumb. Says a lot about
texans and why perry is considered by many to be a typical texan, arrogant,
braggart, everything is bigger and better in texas......all hat and no cattle.
let them vote for obama instead. lots of bigots still exists in the country.
Just walk away. No need to engage in talks with the man. That is what he wants.
Ignore the ignorance and stay on point.
"The same thing is true for Protestants, Baptists and such. You don't refer
to them a Catholic even though they all are sects of the Roman Catholic
Church"They are not sects of the Roman Catholic Church. All of
them are Christain sects though. As for who is Mormon... well some define Mormon
as LDS only, others use Mormon for any book of mormon believing faith much like
Christian is used for any bible believing faith.
junkgeek,This really has nothing to do with the LDS Church, it has
to do with a bigot trying to redefine the First Ammendment which is the biggest
reason America was created by the Founding Fathers, to be seperated from
bigotry.This bigotry demonstrated by Fischer is a disgrace to this
Anyone who criticizes Romney's Mormon faith must be asked to first explain their
opinion of the way Obama's faith might have been influenced by 20 years of
attending Rev. Jeremiah Wright's church, and if that should have disqualified
him from running.Or, will we see the usual media double standard
where liberal Democrats get a pass, while conservatives are hammered
relentlessly based on rumors and innuendo repeated often enough that it becomes
a self fulfiling prophecy?In my opinion, only a very few extreme
religious zealots would oppose Romney based on theological difference with the
LDS faith, while the vast majority of voters (if allowed accurate information on
which to judge) would decide that he has the moral foundation to be an excellent
Yawn...he continues to handle the religion issue the way he should. I belive
people can decide for themselves. People who are inflammatory right-wingers
continue to look more and more biggoted and short-sighted as time continues to
pass. Most Christian groups find statements like these embarrassing and
discriminatory, even though they might disagree on whether or not the LDS faith
fits into their definition of what a Christian is. He'll stick to the point to
gain as many voters as he can with a message that should appeal to that crowd if
the religion thing doesn't bother them too much.
In agreement with DN Subscriber. I support Obama, and if moderate and more
liberal Americans voted for a President whose Church curses America, and who is
married to a person embarrassed to be American well.... : )There
were no rants in the last Conference (go to Mormon org if you want to hear the
sermons/talks and know what Mitt's Church is teaching).Mitt's Church
teaches that the Constitution was Divinely inspired; that America has a special
mission; that we should let all worship (or not worship)how they choose; that
Jesus, Lord of all, teaches us to love all our neighbors and rejoice to be
persecuted and accused of all manner of evil falsely, for they likewise
persecuted Him; He also taught that all people are saved by grace through faith
and will be rewarded for their works-especially their kindness and willingness
to understand others; that we should be involved in making the world and our
nation a better place etc etc. I'm still not sure how I'm voting,
but I hope that most Americans are open hearted enough to not judge Mitt for his
faith in Christ, even if he isn't a perfect person.
Seems like a dream come true for the Obama re-election people - Republicans self
destruct again through religious bigotry on the part of the right wing of the
party.If they keep up the bigoted efforts they might as well wrap
the election in pretty paper, put a beautiful bow on it and deliver it to
President Obama with a smile on their faces.
I would love to see this guy say these things to an apostle, and try to have an
honest discussion about it. But I love how the church doesn't engage in these
silly conversations as well. Just ignore the guy, and he won't get any benefits
out of it.
Mormons, when informed that they're good people but can't be voted for because
they're 'not christians' probably feel the same as gay people do when they hear
mormons talk about how they treat gays with dignity and respect but then vote to
keep them from attaining equal rights.
@ Liberal Ted Im not LDS but most of my family and most of my friends are. the
world is full of people like Bryan Fischer they hate everything they dont
understand so in their world all they know how to do is attack anything they
disagree with. and I hear all kinds of negitivity about the LDS faith and other
religions. its clear Fischer does not like Romney so now he has a another shot
to get the attention he wants so attacking Romney and the LDS faith is getting
his name in the papers. I was suspended for telling my ex boss how ignorant he
was about trashing the LDS faith but after my attorny was through with him he
regretted every word he said. I dont care what religion Romney is the only
reason I wont vote for him is I disagree with his politics his religion is of
absolute no concern to me at all my choice is based on politics and nothing
"Will Romney take advantage of his opportunity to denounce Fisher?"Not a chance. And that is his problem.The LDS that I know
are very very nice people. But, will not confront. Just not their nature. Romneys religion is most likely a central force in his life. This force
was brutally attacked.Should he respond? Should he defend his
faith? HECK YES. Stand up for yourself.Do it forcefully,
convincingly, and respectfully.But NOT doing it says a lot about a
person. It says that this person can be trampled on and spit on and not defend
himself.Those are not presidential qualities. Fight back Mitt.
I would like to say this was a very interesting article, but sometimes the
churches statements and this authors statement that the church no longer
supports plural marriage is untrue. A man can't have two wives while he is
living, but can be Sealed in the Temple to multiple wives if he loses his first
spouse, second spouse, etc. The churches statements at the time of the
Manifesto were that the laws of the land prevented the church from continuing
the practice of plural and Wilford Woodruff was shown in vision what would
happen to the church if the church continued the practice. The church still
believes in plural marriage in the Celestial Kingdom. Please advise me if I'm
incorrect in these assertions.
Interesting view, Fischer, especially given that Jefferson and Washington both
believed in Christ, both prayed, both anticipated an afterlife, and both of them
never found an organized church to belong too.
Actually, Romney did indirectly criticize Bryan Fischer. Fisher has blamed
homosexuals for the Holocaust, suggested banning Muslims from serving in the
military and has strongly attacked Mormons, who, he claims are not Christians.
He has argued that the constitutional right to free exercise of religion doesn't
apply to Mormons, declaring, "The purpose of the First Amendment is to
protect the free exercise of the Christian religion."Romney did
not address Fischer by name or specify which of his remarks were offensive. But
his remarks were clearly aimed at Fischer, "Our value ennoble the citizen
and strengthen the nation. We should remember that decency and civility are
values too. One of our speakers who will follow me today, has crossed that line,
I think. Poisonous language doesn't advance our cause. It's never softened a
single heart nor changed a single mind."
Americans everywhere, be strong. Wake up. Don't surrender to bigotry and
misinformation. If you want to know what Mormons believe, you have our websites.
Do your research there. If you disagree with our theology you are
not compelled to accept it. But don't sit there and lie about our faith and
acceptance of the author and finisher of our faith, Jesus Christ. We are as
forever indebted to Him and to His sacrifice as any person on this planet, if
not more so. We will have your back, and your blind side. Will you have ours?
The religious sects of Jesus day thought that he and his followers were a cult
too. Seems persecution has followed them even to this day.
Don't dignify this guy with a response. If people in the South refuse to elect
one of the most talented leaders in the country, then America deserves what it
To gottscheer,Do you recognized LDS as authoritative to the extent
that our sealings are eternal and thus multiple sealing are valid in Heaven?
Does the government? Does anyone other than LDS? The laws of the land
pertain to here and now. That is all the government is concerned with. They are
not concerned with a "non tangible after life".No LDS
practices polygamy here and now. That some might in heaven one day is
gnightjohnboy,Although the LDS Church is against gay marriage, they
have fought for gays and lesbians to have many other equal rights that every