To UVWHITEKNIGHT: The problem is that to you it is exclusive because you don't
believe or want to believe what goes on within the walls of the temple. As you
stated only worthy members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
and hold a current temple recommend are allowed within its walls once the Temple
is Dedicated. The thing is that not one of those worthy members in are perfect.
Each one went before a Bishop/Branch President and then their Stake President
or his counselors and declared that they were worthy to enter the Temple. It is
a commitment deal. The standards are high, obey the Word of Wisdom, pay a full
tithe, have a testimony of the Church and of a living prophet. Did you know it
is up to the individual to declare those things. They either answer yes or no
to the questions and then declare themselves worthy. If that means it is an
exclusive club then ask yourself if the Lord is ever going to allow someone into
his kingdom if they don't believe in him. If the refuse to obey his
commandments. If they show absolutely no love to him.
People don't understand that the temple is not an exclusionary place. Anybody
can enter in, as long as they are ready and willing to make promises with God.
UVWhiteKnight, you can go, you just need to be prepare because you wouldn't want
to go into the Lord's house unprepared to meet him? In Moroni 10:32 it says,
"Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all
ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God
with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you,
that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are
perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God." This invitation
is for everyone and if we come unto Christ and become clean (deny yourselves of
all ungodliness) we can enter into his temple so that we can become perfect in
Christ. This isn't an "active Mormons only" place but we invite
EVERYONE to prepare and enter. It goes beyond being a mormon, it has to do with
our love for God and our desire to serve him.
Cats writes,It's always so sad to hear bitter, unhappy people whine.
All who wish to make themselves worthy are welcome to attend ANY Temple in the
world. You just have to humble yourself and make become worthy. It will bless
your life and, believe me, it will be worth it.Orin Ryssman
replies,I have a daughter that attends BYU (she started in August)
and having recently visited Provo I can attest that it looks rather run down.
Even more noticeable is the lack of public places and spaces like the Provo
Tabernacle once provided where the community can gather together. Now there
will be another LDS Temple, using a historic building as a facade.As
a believing and practicing Roman Catholic I reject the claim of the LDS faith
that there was any sort of apostasy and it has nothing to do with humbling
oneself and becoming "worthy".
LDS Temples are fundamentally exclusionary. If you think you can argue with that
point, it is in your best interest to review inclusive/exclusive in a
dictionary, because you are confused.People would be sad if BYU
decided to convert the Art museum into an office building. Or if the Carnegie
Hall were turned into a private, "members only" club, regardless of
the beauty of the building. Or any other number of private organizations that
can and do restrict access to their facilities.The Provo Tabernacle
was a place where non-mormons, jack-mormons, ex-mormons, and active mormons were
all welcome. Instead of that cultural breadth and unifying presence in the
community, the Provo Tabernacle will now proclaim on city's Main Street: Only
Active Mormons Wanted (In Provo, by association). A beautiful building that says
look but don't touch, unless you are the "right" type, an exclusive
club.And Cats and others, while the church has graciously maintained
the structure for the last few decades, the Church's contributions, financial or
otherwise, were neglible in the building of the structure. It was built on
contributions beyond those required as tithes.
The comment about the Church buying the Tabernacle may have been about the
Church buying the old Hotel Roberts site. It is true that that site, on the
block south of the Tabernacle, was purchased by the Church very recently. It
also appears that the Church purchased it as part of the plans for the new
temple, although exactly how they connect I do not know. However, as far as I
know there was never a suggestion that the city turn the old hotel site into a
The Church has always owned the Tabernacle. The city never did own it. The
loss of the tabernacle as a place for concerts happened last December. Whether
there is a need in Provo for more concert venues is hard to say. Whether it is
a worthwhile expenditure of funds on the part of The Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints to provide such a venue is another question.Non-BYU groups are at times able to perform in various venues at BYU. Whether
the Harris Fine Arts Center really has enough facilities to meet community needs
I do not know. If it does not, building an additional concert venue may be
needed. That said, a big use of the Provo Tabernacle was for stake
conferences. I am not usre how this void is being filled in full, but others
may be able to shed light on this topic.
@UVwhiteKnight, I was having the same thoughts. So many members of the
community who have enjoyed many events in that building will now be turned away.
This is FANTASTIC!! I have just moved back to Utah County from Vernal where The
Church did the exact same thing, turn a Tabernacle into a Temple. There are some
detractors citing that temples are exclusionary, I say otherwise. The historic
building will draw tuorists to down town Provo. LDS Temples seem to draw people
to them because of their feelings of peace when you are near them. I won't
speculate on names for the temple. Let those in authority decide that.
I am glad about the restoration/adaptive reuse. But the woeful lack
of adequate concert facilities in town and at BYU (no worthy concert pipe organ)
will be felt more acutely now. It is a shame that at a school with a music
program as large and well-developed as BYU's, organ performance majors at BYU
are having to play their required recitals at the University of Utah (which does
have a worthy concert pipe organ) and other far-away places.
Raising glorious new life from ashes
I wonder if it will have a visitors center? Would make sense with the
out-of-town traffic to the new convention center. Wouldn't have to be big.
Could also cover the history of the building and downtown Provo. Plenty of
retired folks around to staff it. Plus it would give tourists somewhere they
could go inside an not feel so left out. On Community use
topic...seems that Provoans did already get off their duffs and build a
community performance hall--the Covey Center for the Performing Arts. You can
rent the performance hall for $600 for 6 hours (at least that's what their
I tend to agree with UVwhiteknight and Oryssman. It was very classy to have a
downtown Provo center for non-denominational concerts. It would have been nice
for Provo City to pony up with the $$ to restore it as a concert hall. But
unfortunately they didn't. And that leaves Provo wanting for something like
that. But since Provo City offered to sell it and the Church offered to buy it,
Provo can't exactly complain when the church wants to turn it into a temple.One option that would have made sense is for the church to restore it
simply as a tabernacle and then build a temple in Spanish Fork or Springville.
OH well. What's done is done.
To Allen#1: BYU only has Rodgers organs in the organ lab. The individual
practice rooms are all pipe organs or hybrid pipe/electric. Digital organs have
made great strides in recent years, but any professional organist will tell you
that a speaker cannot exactly replicate the sound. Nor does the key action feel
the same. It's kind of like how electronic pianos can't replace the real
thing.To Western Rover: It's precisely because the Coalville
Tabernacle was so tragically lost that the church is now so conscientious about
its remaining architectural heritage.To InspectorC: Congratulations.
But seriously, are you hoping to get your name on a plaque or something if that
name is used?To Kevin and Oryssman: I also feel a little bittersweet
about the loss of a community center open to all faiths. Please understand that
to us, temples are about inclusion, since they are the way that our theology
explains how everyone may have an equal chance at eternal life. I know you don't
believe that, but to us, it isn't a symbol of exclusion. I hope you'll take
advantage of the open house when that time comes.
To those who are unhappy about it being rebuilt as a temple...the property and
the building belong to a church. What that church decides to do with the
building is the Church's decision and should be respected. If there are
"many" that want a new community center, get off your duffs and raise
the money to build one. Other wise, you are just a complainer, not a builder or
doer. If you are one who does not like the church and did like to
go to performances in the Tabernacle, then you are a user, for you like what the
church gives you, but you want no part of the church. That's an
interesting position...is it not?
They should have just built a strip mall to bring in more revenue. That make
bettere sense with the churches business model.
Both of the previous comments ignore the fact that the Provo Tabernacle had
previously been a center for many community events that was open to everyone.
While it is wonderful that this building will be "saved", it is truly
unfortunate that this building will only be saved to be renovated into a
structure that will now symbolize exclusion, rather than inclusion (as it once
did). And to state that it is open to all that get themselves LDS worthy
ignores the very real fact that many have examined the claims of the LDS faith
and found them wanting.
Provo Temple A and Provo Temple B? I'm sure it will be just as vibrant as we
Mormons are prone to doing things..Conference Center? Whatever it becomes, it
will eventually feel "homey and natural".
to:UVWhiteKnight | 12:36 p.m. Oct. 2, 2011The fire was a tragic
happening and a loss to the church and community but your comments suggest that
the Church is making a mistake by building a temple on the site. The temple is
at the core of our religion because of the saving ordinances that go on in
there. A temple will provide much needed relief to the Provo Temple. Tithing is
sacred and is used where it is needed most, as in temple building. As for being exclusionary, any worthy member can enter the temple. We desire
all people to come to the truth and become worthy to enter the temple. Everyone
is welcome in Zion. Even you!
To: UVWhiteKnight The new Provo Utah temple, as with all temples,
will be open to all people, including you. It is not an exclusionary place nor
are you or any others disenfranchised by the Church. It is your individual
decision whether or not you can enter. All the Lord asks is that we clean up
our lives, wipe some mud off our shoes and enter appropriately--the same thing
you would ask if I entered your home. You wouldn't want me to track mud across
your living room carpet but would kindly ask that I remove my shoes and leave
them at the door. That's all the Lord asks for His house. All are welcome in
an ever growing Zion and is all-inclusive. The only people who don't or can't
enter a temple make that decision of themselves.
To Mark C @ 8:26 AM today ---Ummmmm... just to set the public record
straight, "PROVO PIONEER TEMPLE" was MY idea; posted ~17 hours before
your comment. Sorry to disappoint you, brother!I suggested that
possible name (again, "Provo Pioneer Temple") at 3:31 PM yesterday, in
my posting on another comment-board here on the DesNews, from their FIRST
article titled "LDS general conference opens with the announcement of six
new Mormon temples". See Comments, pg. 2, post #23).But I'm
humbled to see that you and several other posters like my suggested name for the
new Provo Temple. 8^)As I also mentioned in my post yesterday
(ibid), wouldn't it be awesome if the Church would give members the opportunity
to submit suggested names for that second temple in Provo? I already have
first-dubs on "Provo Pioneer Temple"!
Sad day to be a Provoan. The loss of an beautiful tabernacle with great
acoustics, perfect for community choruses and like events was tragic.But rather than rebuild a community center and focal point, they are electing
to disenfranchise an increasingly significant portion of the population. The
tabernacle was built by the citizens of Provo, and so many are now being told
"You aren't welcome in our little "Zion"".As to
those who think that it will revitalize downtown, they clearly haven't seen the
Provo's downtown was increasingly vibrant. The last thing it needs is an
exclusionary Temple, and another massive parking lot on its main street.
Fabulous way of taking a negative and creating a positive. Can't wait to see how
the new interior is set up.
I wonder why the church chose to restore the Provo Tabernacle, when they chose
to demolish the Coalville Tabernacle, even though it wasn't burnt down? (At
least they salvaged the artwork.)
owlmaster2,That would be awesome.Whatever they call it,
this is a wonderful use for the building.
I would have thought this would be a good opportunity to get a better design for
this tabernacle. But the people have spoken and they will get what they ask for.
I like "Provo Pioneer Temple." It has a good ring to it.I
also like that the state with the second largest LDS population without a temple
is now getting one in Wyoming (61,000 members in 2009 with 16 stakes).I am, of course, living in the state with the largest LDS population without a
temple--Virginia (85,000 members in 2009 with 19 stakes).
I like the name "Provo Pioneer Temple." But, we'll just have to wait
and see. Whatever it is, I'm so thrilled I can't wait. As someone
who is a Provo native with generations of roots in Provo (my ancestor founded
Provo) it means everything to have this building not only restored, but turned
into a Temple. It broke my heart when it burned. I have spent my life
attending meetings and events at the Provo Tabernacle. Now it's going to be
even better. I thank President Monson and the Saviour for this great blessing.
I am hoping that that they will not use that 300 watts bulb inside the sound box
in that building again. They better start using LED lights where it stay cooler
and last a lot long than regular light blubs. Cheaper too.
Awesome decision. Great surprise. Can't wait to see it. Outstanding to see so
many temples being built in so many areas of the world. President Thomas S.
Monson is a true prophet.
Agree with John of Michigan...The Provo Tabernacle Temple. Could be
The Provo Center Temple, but then it might be confused with Provo Towne
Center.How about The Provo Pioneer Temple?
Naming the new temple Provo Tabernacle Temple would be like naming it Provo
Temple Temple. My idea is Provo Pioneer Temple.
Maybe, coulda, shoulda, woulda and suppose. Lots of conjecture..
ok, from an outsider I'll throw in a guess.How about the Temple be
named the New Provo Temple as apposed to the Old Provo Temple.The
way Mormons are building Temples, soon there will be one in every town in Utah
Though I grew up near Spokane Washington, I was born in Utah and remember
attending stake conference in the Provo Tabernacle as a very young boy, I've
always been interested in architecture and pipe organs, so the building made a
lasting impression on me.I too was thrilled while watching the
morning session of conference and heard the announcement. The fire was tragic,
but it goes to show each of us that even when tragedy strikes, we can pick up
the pieces and accomplish something even better after wards. I think it is too
frequent that many of us simply leave the ashes and scarred in our personal
lives and retain the soot as evidence that we have suffered. Lets all be a
little more forgiving, less bitter about past fires in our lives and replant,
rebuild, and then have glorious open houses to celebrate what we've
As a person who loves the sound of a pipe organ, I feel a pipe organ is a waste
of money. BYU replaced the practice pipe organs with Rodgers Digital organs many
years ago.The new Allen and Rodgers Digital organs are superior to
the "expensive to build, expensive to maintain" pipe organs that are
now modern day dinosaurs. Our ward house much less expensive LDS standard Allen
AP 22a is surperior in every way to the 10 rank pipe organ in our stake house.
I would not be surprised if the new temple is called the Provo Tabernacle
Temple.On the issue of BYU having a true concert hall, it might be
nice for them to build an additional concert hall, and if they could convince
the board that it does not count as academic space they might get approval.
With the Broadcasting Building finished I am not aware of any major construction
projects at BYU, so maybe building a new concert hall there will occur. I am
all for it, but that does not really matter much.
Well Chachi, until Tom Monson announces it I'm predicting no names will be
changed and your concert hall problem will remain just that....I'm
glad the existing structure will be utilized in this new temple scheme of
things.Maybe after it's finished I'll sneak down to Provo to do a walk
thru during the tours. I've actually been in a couple of your temples on
Provo City Council voted unanimously to sell 3/4 acre of public land in
Downtown Provo to the LDS Church for $500K. No bids, no auction, no public
comment period - just here, one-true church, take this public land for less than
commercial value. Just another day in Utah - where theocracy knows
1) The Copenhagen Denmark Temple is a good indicator of how size constraints
might be addressed when remodeling a pre-existing building into a temple: there,
a reinforced foundation was added, and an underground addition was built to the
side of the main building, connecting to the basement.2) The rendering
seems to show the old heater building still in existence, but you can't see
whether the brick smokestack is still there or not.3) Doubtless the temple
will help breathe new life into the Center Street area (as will the new
convention center and NuSkin project), but also the blocks just south of the
tabernacle, which are what really need it.4) Now BYU's lack of an adequate
concert hall is felt more acutely than ever. BYU has no concert pipe organ--just
the Madsen Recital Hall.5) It would seem strange if the current Provo
Temple were to retain that name while the temple at the exact center of downtown
gets a name like "Provo Peak Temple" or "South Provo
Temple." Perhaps an Ogden-style remodel of the current Provo Temple will
occur after this or Payson is finished, and it will then be renamed.
Thy dross to consume and thy gold to refine. They are taking something that was
damaged and turning it into something sacred. That is so awesome, I am so happy
for the people in the Provo area to not only have a new temple, but to enjoy
this beautiful structure.
This will be a great use of a reconstructed historic structure and will be
fondly embraced by members in the area and elsewhere.