Wow. You all make me proud to be Mormon. Do you not realize that in her
country she would be stoned if she went out looking like your daughters? Even
modest under YOUR standards? Is that to be applauded? Educate yourselves,
people. Educate yourselves.
UT Brit, I got the sarcasm too.May I say I enjoy your posts. You
make a lot of sense.
@John AdamsWell it looks like you have extremely bad reasoning and
comprehension skills. I work with Muslims, I laugh with them, I have them round
to my house for dinner and their kids play with my kids. You will find
that Muslims are more concerned about supporting their families, keeping their
jobs and providing for their future than world domination. You know, like
everyone else.@mom of three*sigh* I am a member, read
Champs de blé's explanation above.
@mom of threeThat was UT BRIT's whole point: You don't watch
anti-videos, read anti-literature, or speak with uninformed people to understand
a religion. You're absolutely right: you do speak with religious scholars,
active members, read their actual scripture, and listen to discussions from
their leaders. Any person who does this will see how good a religion Islam is,
despite the actions of a few wackos claiming to be practicing the same religion.
"i just love how people that are not members of our faith feel
like they know more about what we practice than we do." Again
you hit it dead on. That's exactly what people who are defending Islam are
trying to say.John Adams and Cinefan (I'm almost certain you are the
same person), I'm not going to beleaguer this argument with you any more. Any
person with a decent amount of intelligence will be able to see your posts for
what they really are. Have a nice day.
to UT BRIT. no, if you want to find out about the LDS faith, talk to the
missionaries, LDS bishops, active members or read the book of mormon. you don't
read anti-LDS literature or books by ex-members. they are full of false
statements. check out the lds website for true statements about the church. i
just love how people that are not members of our faith feel like they know more
about what we practice than we do.
This will be my last comment on the subject. Allow me to quote Pat Condell from
his YouTube video "No Mosque at Ground Zero"."Any
religion that endorses violence is incapable of delivering Spiritual
enlightenment. How obvious does that have to be? And it has no right to even
call itself a religion. Without the shield of religion to hide behind, Islam
would be banned in the civilized world as a political ideology of hate, and we
have no obligation to make allowances for it any more than we do for Nazism.
It's a bigger threat to our freedom than Nazism ever was. Yes, both are
totalitarian and both divide the world unnecessarily into us and them, the pure
and the impure, and both make no secret of their desire to exterminate the Jews.
"But we were are all, more or less, on the same side against
the Nazis, whereas the Islamo-Nazis have got plenty of friends among people in
the West who ought to know better."
@ UT Brit | 5:07 p.m. Sept. 21, 2011 You apparently support the
Islamification of Britain and you compare Islam to The Church of Jesus Christ of
@John AdamsDo you check in your closet and look under your bed for
muslims at night?@cinefanWatch "Godmakers" for
all you need to know about the LDS church.
* "I get to be different," Kergaye said. "I'm OK with that."
*Not "I'm stuck with being different" or "I hafta do
this." She's decided to live in the world but not of the world and she's
happy with that. What a cool attitude. :)
@ Champs de blé | 12:35 p.m. Sept. 21, 2011 I seriously doubt
that Cinefan's faith or philosophy advocates in any, way, or form the total
elimination of those who do not think and/or worship the way he might.Since you missed what the Muslim leader told the Atchbishop, let me repeat it
for you: "Thanks to your democratic laws, we will invade you. Thanks to our
religious laws, we will dominate you." Get the picture?It is
painfully obvious from your reply that you have little understanding of Islam
and its tenets. If they had their (and they are working on it), you and I and
eeveryone else would either convert to Islam or die. If you think that religious
freedom, then I urge you study the subject in greater depth.
@CinefanThe French are a highly irreligious society that has
attacked Christianity and Judaism as well as Islam. I wouldn't be using them as
an example of how the US should act if you care about religious freedom in the
world. I love the French, but this is one of the few things that I despise about
their culture. They are a very nationalistic society that is not very open to
things "un-french." You have the freedom to keep
attacking Islam on this site, as do others. I will warn you, however, that by
attacking one faith you are attacking religious freedom as a whole. You may find
yourself at the butt of your own philosophy one day if the tide ever turns
against your beliefs.
Candide: Your claim is way off. Modesty is about morality, not domination. But
there is one good point to your argument: modesty for males is becoming rare.
Men need to be modest also. Society sometimes has a double standard. Men should
not go around in public without a shirt. There are even public swimming pools
that won't allow men to wear a t-shirt with their bathing suit.
Reflecting on the retreat of Catholicism and the rise of Islam in France,
Archbishop Giuseppe Bernardini, an Italian Franciscan who heads the Izmir
archdiocese in Turkey, and who has lived in the Islamic world for more than 40
years, has recounted a conversation he once had with a Muslim leader, who told
him: "Thanks to your democratic laws, we will invade you. Thanks to our
religious laws, we will dominate you."Islam Overtaking
Catholicism in Franceby Soeren KernAugust 18, 2011
@ atl134 | 6:38 p.m. Sept. 20, 2011 Bury your head the sand. That is
your prerogative.Please, watch the film "Islam: What the West
Needs to Know". It's free on Google.
As long as people have their agency they can practice their religion any way
they please within the law.ANyone who think banning this expression
is allowing government to take steps in banning practices of other religions.
If you ban Muslim wear, they will ban garments next. Keep government out of
religion and keep religion out of government.I applaud this young
lady, especially living in Utah where I have heard many ugly comments from my
fellow LDS about Muslims. Brothers and sisters, Jesus said love everyone, not
just who you pick and choose.
@Cinefan"Islam is not a religion, per se. It is a governing doctrine
that dictates religious beliefs along with social behavior, including laws,
penalties and punishments, not by God, but by men if the laws are not obeyed.
Islam is a form of government, not a religion. The United States already has
government under its Constitution."It's a religion. You can
have a theocratic gov't that institutes Islam (as nations before have done with
christianity, or even the utah pioneers for that matter with mormonism), but
that doesn't change the fact that Islam is a religion. You want to classify it
as something else so that you can justify your anti-muslim prejudices.
CJB, this girl isn't doing any damage to future children by dressing like this.
She chooses to dress the way she does, she would only be doing damage to other
children if she forced them to dress a certain way. If she feels comfortable in
the way she dresses, who cares? That is her choice.
I fully support this young lady for standing up for what she believes in.
Latter-day Saints should understand better then most how hard that is in modern
times, and not challenge her and make life more difficult for her. I hope she
keeps this up, way to go!
Islam is not a religion, per se. It is a governing doctrine that dictates
religious beliefs along with social behavior, including laws, penalties and
punishments, not by God, but by men if the laws are not obeyed. Islam is a form
of government, not a religion. The United States already has government under
its Constitution.If Muslims want to live and work in America and
worship their prophet and God, that is not a problem. But when they try to go
beyond their own personal worship and demand that we change our society and our
faith to accommodate them, then that is where we need to draw the line. It is
not we who should change, it is they. Muslim worship is protected
under the First Amendment, Islamic law is not. Until Muslims, and our own
government, can accept that, then Islam cannot be considered a religion and
Islamic culture does not belong in the United States of America.from
I admire this young lady for sticking to her beliefs. It cannot be easy. And
then a lot of the commenters on here are ganging up on her and her family for
what they believe! We do not know her family, but because they are
different from us they must be bad. Yet some commenters on here will be the
first to cry foul when the Mormons are criticized, because "that's not what
we believe!"I just wish a lot of our LDS Youth (and some of the
grownups!) had this young lady's conviction to her standards.
There is nothing "admirable" about this. A "modest choice"
here is a violently enforced oppression in many countries.The girl
should feel lucky that she can choose to uncover her face and hands, much less
engage in team sports. She wouldn't have that choice elsewhere.
I've got to agree with the French (and the Australians), this kind of dress only
continues to advance the stereotype of women as second class citizens. It has no
business in the "free" nations of the world and ought to be
prohibited.It has to do with religion and culture all right,
religion and culture focused on keeping women subservient.
Give Me A Break | 10:13 a.m. Sept. 20, 2011 Pullman, WA "...I
am always grateful to women who leave it all to the imagination. Such women help
my imagination, and the imaginations of so many other men, to not wander where
it has no business wandering. It is a delight"Give Me, this is
not a gender issue. Women also have imaginations. Yet many men are very
immodest in their dress. Heck my young adult male neighbor across the street,
who is also mormon, does all of his yardwork shirtless with his jeans looking
like they are about to fall off. I see MANY males in the church wearing pants
on Sunday that look like they are about to fall off as well.
@ custer: Kind of like the double standard of women having to wear shirts while
men are allowed to go topless, huh?
Muslin women/girls wearing head scarfs is a cultural decision. Covering of the
hair for all women is not commanded in the Koran. Millions of devout Muslim
women go about their lives with out any hair covering.Also--what
does a women covering her hair, have to do with modesty?And--why
don't Muslim males have the same standard? Why only women? This girl is running
around all covered-up, while her male Muslim soccer friends wear no such attire.
Looks like a double standard to me.
I'm the only Mormon in my family and among my group of friends. It's really
tough to stick to your faith and practices. Especially because you know people
are watching you. I love how this young lady is able to practice her beliefs
with such devotion and with a cheerful attitude. It's absolutely wonderful and
it inspires me to be a better Latter-Day Saint. Well done!
@mapledonTerrorism is radical, and I claimed that the idea of most
Muslims being extremist was false, not that there aren't any extremists. There
are something like 1-1.5 billion muslims in the world and over a million in the
U.S. If radical Islam was so prevalent then one would think we'd see much more
terrorism. It'd really be helpful if everyone just visited a mosque once. "What is occurring in parts of the Muslim world today (Egypt,
Libya, Syria, Yemen, etc.) must be peaceful?"Last I checked
those four nations had/have dictators and the fighting there was started by
those dictators themselves, though in the case of the latter two the opposition
really hasn't fought back yet. What are you going to do next, criticize the
American revolutionaries who fought against England for independence?
@ cjb: So because some women are "forced" to wear this
"garb" and because some future girl may want to make a choice
different from the one this girl has made, we should remove this girls choice
and force her to wear clothing that conforms with your standards?Do
you not see the fallacy of your position? Do you not see that us forcing her to
deny her religious standards is no different than someone else forcing her to
adhere to those standards?Either way, force is used and choice is
taken away. It is just as wrong one way as it is the other.
@atl134, "The word peace is necessary because there are people such as
yourself and cinefan who want to believe that most Muslims are some sort of
radicals."I take it that you see no correlation between Islam
and radicalism. Right?So what we've witnessed over the past 25+
years with the spread of Islam and--shame on me for bringing up this
word--terrorism isn't radical? What is occurring in parts of the Muslim world
today (Egypt, Libya, Syria, Yemen, etc.) must be peaceful? The storming of the
Israeli embassy in Cairo last week was simply an expression of an idea? Thanks for the insight.
@MapleDon"The "peace" adjective is never applied to
Judaism, Christianity, Sikhism, Buddhism, etc"If people thought
those other ones were violent then I imagine you'd see the word peace there too.
The word peace is necessary because there are people such as yourself and
cinefan who want to believe that most Muslims are some sort of radicals. None of you know anything about this girl's family other than that they
are devout and let their daughter play soccer and yet we're supposed to assume
that they're some sort of radical extremists?
Sure there could be those who force their women to wear such clothing, but there
are also many women who choose to do so. I am always grateful to women who leave
it all to the imagination. Such women help my imagination, and the imaginations
of so many other men, to not wander where it has no business wandering. It is a
cinefan, thanks for the tip. Very interesting film.It's interesting
how Islam is the only religion that we are told over and over (by the elites and
the media) is one of peace. The "peace" adjective is never applied to
Judaism, Christianity, Sikhism, Buddhism, etc. However, evidence is
clear that "peace" for Islam only comes through control and the
elimination of opposition and freedom. No other religion is more violent and
intolerant than Islam.Yet, we bend over backwards to
"applaud" Muslims.Though some of you pat yourselves on
your backs for handing out praise, I'm not impressed. Just the opposite.
"Foolish" is actually the adjective I'm thinking of.
This is great.
Way to go, DN! I hardly ever choose to comment on articles, but I'll make an
exception for this one because it just made my day. I love learning about people
who stand up for what they believe in-- it makes me want to set an example as
well. Love the majority of comments here, too (unusual, I know)!
Living in the South, we have seen Christian Pentecostal youth - both young men
and young women - wear clothing for modesty with their school basketball or
volleyball uniforms. All people should be free to live their faith in our
country without ridicule - whether Muslim or Christian.
Colorado Reader, I agree with your point.
Love this article! We should focus on and praise the dedication of our youth
cjb, are you LDS? If so, then you should probably understand and not criticize
somebody else for wearing special religious clothing.
Imposition of modesty standards is just another way that men use to dominate
women. Islamic men are not required to cover themselves in the same way that
women are. Why is that? Women are made to feel that there is something wrong
with their bodies and themselves and that they need to hide themselves under
layers of clothing. We should be promoting equality between the sexes and not
celebrating discriminatory practices. "Modesty is a vastly overrated
I also applaud the Deseret News for upholding religious expression for people
who are not Mormon.
Good for this young lady! I wish some of the girls I see at church with skirts a
foot or more above their knees would learn from her example.
"Good for her. She should love it here. I think her Mormon friends and team
mates can understand her better than most."Some of her Mormon
friends could also take a lesson from her. I am SHOCKED at what some Mormon
girls will wear and still think themselves modest. I guess the standards don't
always apply to everyone. I am glad this girl stands firm. I really respect
and admire that. You don't have to agree with the "extreme clothing"
to admire the commitment and obedience to her beliefs.
Good for Serene. And good for her teammates and the athletic association, too.
Religious tolerance is an example of true patriotism.
"This seemingly happy girl doesn't realize the damage she is doing to
future girls that don't want to be different but just want to be like everyone
else."Oh sure, criticize the very obviously moderate
Muslim family that I'm sure finds the notion of honor killings to be abhorent.
What kind of message does that send to future girls? 'Sorry but we're going to
assume the worst of your family because you don't conform to what we want?'And do I really have to remind you that the majority religion in this
state has articles of clothing that are required to be worn too?
I could not disagree more with cjb, and I applaud this young woman living her
religious convictions even when others who obviously don't understand the
religion criticize and suggest that you are doing damage to the future of women.
What a silly comment, cjb.
As a practicing member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I
"claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates
of [my] own conscience, and allow all men [all people] the same privilege, let
them worship how, where, or what they may." I respect this young lady's
decision and commend her coach and teammates, who have been supportive of her
decision to practice her religion as she sees fit. That is as it should be.
Readers may want to Google "Islam: What the West Needs to Know" and
watch the video.It certainly is an eye-opener.
Leave her alone. She'd be considered immodest in Afghanistan and crazy in
Beverly Hills. Everyone has their own standards. As long as she's comfortable,
whose business is it but hers?
The word 'modesty' seems to be little understood in the clothing that many young
girls, and also women wear these days. One can well admire and applaud this
young Moslem girl for her adherance to her standards and religion.
I hope we see the extreme clothing some Muslims wear change over time to a more
appropriate reflection of the purpose of the clothing. Modesty is to be
applauded and respected, but when you see the extreme covering of hair and head,
and often times (though not in this case apparently) the entire face with the
exception of the eyes, there is a sense of fanatacism that is, I believe,
unhealthy for girls and women.The purpose of the clothing is modesty
according to the Muslims I know, and can be achieved with much less than the
full covering of head and face. The limitation of color has to do with humility
which again, can be achieved without only black or white. There is a strange
line that is crossed when it changes from a reflection of someone's belief in
modesty and humility and becomes a verdict judging a particular girl's or
woman's worthiness to exist based upon how severely she adheres to a dress code.
I have personally seen this happen, right here in Utah, where women are
disgraced and live in fear because of husbands who demand a bizarre standard.
Good for her. She should love it here. I think her Mormon friends and team
mates can understand her better than most.
You go, girl!
France is right, such dress ought to be discouraged.The problem is
that many women are forced to wear this garb. There have been several honor
killings on teen girls that didn't want to live the Moslem religion. This
seemingly happy girl doesn't realize the damage she is doing to future girls
that don't want to be different but just want to be like everyone else.If she wants to be different let her do charity. Let her excel in her studies
and then help her class mates in their studies. Wearing these clothes only draws
attention to herself.
This young lady is to be applauded. Her attitude is magnificent and this to me
is an example of how things should be. We are all strong united, regardless of
our faiths. Excellent article.