TSA:Still carefully picking your stats and years to show BYU is
better in football, eh? Let's stick to the last 10 years:Top 5
finishesUtah = 2BYU = 0BCS bowl winsUtah = 2BYU N/AHead to headUtah = 7 (avg margin of victory 16.7
points)BYU = 3 (avg margin of victory 4 points)If anyone is
"delusional about recent accomplishments", it's not Utah fans.
TheSportsAuthority,All of that and STILL Roscoe has a loosing record
to Kyle. Kyle has more head to head wins, more wins as a head coach, and a
better record this year. Care to "prove" how byu is better than Utah
this year, or since both head coaches have started with those FACTS? (Kyle
hasn't lost a game to BYU by more than 7, Roscoe has lost twice in blowouts). If
Utah is such a inferior opponent, how is it that they still outperform the
kitties from down south?Final "rankings" is just a
popularity vote or beauty pageant by the media. Sure it is nice to get them, but
if you are #26 in the voting, it doesn't really make you a worse team than #24.
It is just a perceived ranking. Or is it an empirical formula that determines
exact scientific proof that said team is better?
Money, money, money. Greed, greed, greed. Go ahead all of you "tech"
freaks and figure out how to create capital kingdoms. Where will you be then?
Just remember the bottom line-In a 16 team conference 12 teams are going to be
"losers". Is that what the common fan wants? How many local fans are
going to average traveling 400 to 800 miles each week to support their schools
athletic team? What does that do to a normal family budget? Who's kidding who
Hilarious reading the naive Y fans predicting that Utah may one day get booted
from the Pac 12.This has never happened once (and cannot happen) in
the history of collegiate athletics.But apparently, Utah's rejection
is imminent.Come on Y fans... your delusion is getting loonier than
Riddles in the Dark | 6:46 a.m. Sept. 20, 2011 Olympus Cove, UtahClassless Ute Fan AP Top 25 LifetimeBYU 17Utah 5-----------------Ha ha ha!These made up
statistics are so ridiculous that you won't get a single person to bite on
three11stu | 10:04 p.m. Sept. 19, 2011 Saratoga Springs, UTNot being
bitter, as I am a fan of both the U and the Y, but where was this outrage when
Utah left the Mountain West for the Pac 12? I believe that was the start of all
the shakeup, not what is taking place now.----------------Utah did not fire the first shot. In fact, Utah didn't pull the trigger at
all. The Pac-10 did, and Utah did the only thing it could... accept the
invite.I also think super conferences are bad, and I am glad the
Pac-12 is staying put at 12. But the fact is, people are only outraged when
something doesn't benefit them.Why should there have been outrage
when Utah left? Who is the state of Utah more loyal to? The University of
Utah... or the Mountain West conference? People would've been foolish to stick
up for the MWC after what they've done to this state's teams over the last 5
years.And it's the same for BYU. There should be absolutely ZERO
outrage if BYU were to jump ship for a BCS league.
Utah fans are soooo delusional about recent accomplishments.Top 25
Finishes Last 5 YearsBYU2006 #16/#152007 #14/#152008 #25/#212009 #12/#122010 unrankedUtah2006
unranked2007 unranked2008 #2/#42009 #18/#182010
ur/#23BYU has almost as many Top 25 finishes (both polls) in the
last 5 years (4), as Utah has in its entire history (5).AP Top 25
Last 5 YearsBYU 4Utah 2Top 15 (in at least one poll)
Last 5 YearsBYU 3Utah 1Utah is the epitome of a flash in
the pan - the Utes have never even managed to string back-to-back Top 15
finishes together.BYU has managed that little feat many, many times,
including as recently as 2006-2007.Utah fans like to cherry-pick
Utah wins and BYU losses, but, the final rankings are the final word on each
season, and in that respect, Utah has proven that they're all talk, but no walk.
If the super-conferences become reality it will do irreparable harm to college
sports overall but I think that this is inevitable. If created as most
envision, the resulting four 16-team mega-conferences will have essentially
OPEC-like cartel leverage in negotiating with the networks and will see revenues
surge. From that standpoint Utah is in a good spot whether the PAC stays at 12
or goes to 14 or 16 (although they will be also-rans within their conference).
The mystery is what happens with the Big-12 and Big East. There is now a huge
push from major powerbrokers to keep the Big-12 largely intact. If this happens
then the Big East will be in trouble because it won't have Big-12
"leftovers" (Kansas, KSU, ISU, Baylor, possibly Missouri) to merge
with. BYU, on the other hand, would likely get a Big-12 invite. Most current
MWC, C-USA and WAC schools will likely maintain their affiliations. Reportedly
the Big-12 has no interest in Boise State but likes BYU and AFA. If the Big-12
dissolves then unfortunately BYU will be hard pressed to consistently schedule
quality competition throughout the season.
@ eastcoastcoug | 4:51 a.m. Sept. 20, 2011 Classless Ute fans? After all the gum flapping about Independence, ESPN $$$, exposure, &
the we are going to crack the BCS this time(really we mean it) gum flapping,
lets call it payback or put another way..Pride goeth...
@ Cougars - Wise Older Brothers | 11:00 p.m. Sept. 19, 2011 Lucky
win? Running scared?If only Will Ferrell was that funny.
@ scenic viewOnly a clueless BYU fan whose team has not been
relevant since 1984 wouldn't understand that 2 BCS bowl wins and 2 undefeated
seasons in 7 years including a #2 and #4 ranking in a non AQ conference is a
great accomplishment. BYU's biggest bowl win EVER was a 24-17 victory over a
6-5 Michigan team. So I can truly understand why BYU does not understand the
significance of our Fiesta and Sugar Bowl victories.As far as BYU:
- Blow out loss to Utah at home (their only meaningful game in 2011)
54-10! On national TV nonetheless.-Blow out losses to Florida St,
Air Force, Utah State,TCU and Nevada by a combined score of 157-56. Thats an
average of over 20 points per loss. - 3-7 against Utah the last 10
years-Will never be in a BCS conferenceSo what have you
done lately?BYU fans criticize Utah's recent accomplishments, only
because BYU has no accomplishments since...well you know.
This article would never had been written if it appeared that BYU had a seat at
the super conference table.
scenic viewhere is a tissue.
Papa Smurf UTE "Still talking about all the individual awards,
with the one team award the NC in 1984. We live in a what have you done for me
lately world, and as of late, you have done nothing."Only a
clueless Utah fan whose team has never won a single national individual award
wouldn't understand that such awards are just as much team awards as individual
awards.As far as Utah:- blowout loss AT HOME in the
biggest game in Utah history - 7-47- blowout loss road loss on national
television - 3-28- blowout loss in bowl game - 3-26- winless in the
PAC 12- winless against BCS teamsSo what have you done lately?
Utah fans criticize BYU "ancient" history, only because
Utah has no history.
patriot"Well after the 54-10 rout on ESPN I doubt BYU will have
to worry about ANY conference invites for a long time to come..."Either you're just spouting off because you couldn't come up with anything
more creative, or you're completely clueless about conference realignment.A team could lose a game 1,000 - 0 this year, finish the season 0-12,
and it wouldn't affect a potential invite one iota.
I read a Yahoo article in which all 5 writers put BYU into a super conference if
it happens. They said it is all about the $$$ and BYU with its fan base and
stadium size makes money. Include the success over the last 30 years, they said
BYU would be included.
John S. Harvey | 4:19 p.m. Sept. 20, 2011 Sandy, UT Agree.
Eight 15 team super conferences would include exactly the 120 FCS (D1 in past
terminology) exactly. It also sets up a natural playoff system which includes
every conference - 4 first round games, 2 second round games, and 1 final.
What's not to like?
I think everyone agrees that if the Big XII were to stay together, that would
potentialy be good for BYU. If it does not and four 16 team superconferences
are formed, we struggle to see BYU in one of them. But how do the four
superconferences get formed? first the Pac 12 has to invite UT, OU and their
poor sisters. If they do not, this whole superconference thing gets shot to
heck right now. It takes 9 presidents of Pac 12 schools to approve. What is
U said "no". That might help protect BYU. But why do that? we
hate BYU. I say, remember in the 70's, 80's and first half of 90's when BYU
carried the U. The U could not fill a small stadium, BYU went to bowls and the
U got money from it all. Just like OU is protecting OSU and UT is protecting
TTU, perhaps the U should consider its brother (not little or big). I think
there are already 2-3 Pac 12 presidents thinking this expansion may not be so
WOW! This rivalry just gets better and better. So much for thinking that utes
and cougars don't care about each other anymore. This love hate relationship is
pretty entertaining. The funny thing about all this...Dick. He loves to write
things that stir everybody up. Does anyone even remember what the article is
about? Does anyone care?
@ whatsinitformeWhat Utah fans are you talking about? Every Ute fan I've
talked to is very excited for Texas and OU to come to the PAC. Why wouldn't we
Hunt,The fact that Texas and Oklahoma may join the Pac 16 doesnt
really hurt at all. We will get more recruits out of the Texas hotbed where
those players may have gone to Texas A&M, or other schools that play Texas
on a regular basis. We have competed with the premeir teams in college football
for the last 15 years with MWC recruits. Just think if we were part of the Pac
16 and got even better recruits. I am not saying that the UTES would win their
division each year, and it may only happen once a decade. I however like the
chances of getting better recruits, and playing better competition on a regular
basis than being independent and playing WAC and Con USA teams. While the UTES
may not play in SO Cal every year in the PAc 16, they will still get some great
Cali recruits to compete with the Texas and Ok teams. Kids will want to play for
Super Conference leagues. That will only help with recruiting.
Growing up I would root against Utah, because they were our rivals. After I
left home and lived in the midwest and the east coast, I started to identify
with Utah through the Majerus years in basketball, and most recently since the
arrival of Urban Meyer in football. Being a native Utahn felt great when the U
was winning and I cheered for them. However, I remained a cougar fan, because
they are still my childhood team. I root for them when they're down and I
anguish when they get waxed. I still wish Utah the best of success in the PAC
and I am glad they made it out of the MWC. However, there is nothing wrong with
me feeling bad because BYU is going to get left out of any future realignment.
I'm not sure why Ute fans can't take a little pity on BYU, because they were in
the same spot just a few years ago. Do BYU fans feel jilted that they got left
out last summer? Absolutely. Is it going to mean a further diminishment of
their program if they get left out this time? Probably. But isn't this bad for
the U as well?
For Utes not wanting to see the Pac-12 expand, remember, that's the conference
that started it all, and that failed start got YOU into the Pac family.So, not wanting to see the OKs and TXs come your way is just plain tough. It's
likely to happen, because when the SEC and ACC each get to 16, the Big Ten will
also, which means the Pac-12 will, too (and probably before the Big Ten doos).
The Pac won't be left behind on this one.Remember, the Pac started
this whole thing.So, get used to the idea of playing in Oklahoma,
Texas, Colorado, and Arizona a lot, and just once in awhile in California,
Oregon, and Washington.Recruiting from Texas vs California is
probably a trade-off. Either way, you'll have fertile recuriting grounds as a
Let's everyone get this straight: the NCAA is powerless with respect to college
football playoffs because the NCAA doesn't OWN the bowls. They're individually
owned and run.That won't ever change, so forget about the NCAA doing
anything about a college football playoff. DUH!Now, as for the BCS,
it'll crumble if it continues to find ways to exclude the so-called mid-majors.
However, as long as it gives guaranteed entry to BCS bowl games, such as if
you're high enough ranked you're in, then litigation doesn't have a chance
against the BCS.Granting BCS status to conferences is legit when its
guidelines are adhered to. The MWC, if it hadn't lost its top dogs, would have
gotten BCS status and the Big East would have lost its. Past history, now.HOWEVER, if four 16-team superconferences come about, that'll minimize
the mid-major conferences as they'll have very few cross-over contests with BCS
schools. Then, that could be a litigation issue.Who knows whether
the BCS will institute a playoff of more than 4 teams.
Riddles, Still talking about all the individual awards, with the one
team award the NC in 1984. You just got beat, on your home feild no less by 44
points. We live in a what have you done for me lately world, and as of late, you
have done nothing. That is great that you beat up on the MWC teams, and were
ranked in the top 25 and had four 10 win seasons in a row. The MWC now has much
worse teams than the old WAC did. More people know that Utah has 2 BCS wins,
than they know that the Y was in the top 25 a few times, and had some 10 win
seasons. That is why people know who Boise St is as well. Had Boise done what
you did, with no BCS wins, no one would care about Boise St, or even really know
who they are. They would not even be on the college football radar had they not
played in, and won some BCS games. Super Conferences are coming, and if the Big
12, and Big East fall apart, the Y might not be part of the new Super
Dick, the me, me, me attitude is nothing new. It's been seen in the grumblings
of smaller schools for the past 35 years trying to break into the old boys'
club. Let's face it, schools like USC, Texas, Oklahoma, Ohio State, Michigan
and many others are the big boys because they were successful from the
beginning. I'm a BYU fan but BYU was a cog in this wheel when they hit #5 in
the rankings in 1996 and got stuck with the Cotton Bowl...they were screaming
and even started the early anti-BCS grumblings. So this is not new and will not
go away.mega-conferences will be formed and will probably die, but
in the meantime we'll get some sort of revised BCS playoff system out of it,
fewer conferences will facilitate that. Then the conferences will die off and
we'll be left with a similarly messy situation.I'm just glad that
BYU is in control of their future, which is also why Notre Dame is happy as a
@eastcoastcoug"Ute fans - showing once again your lack of class,
continuing to pile it on BYU even after the lopsided win. One more reason many
of us could never live in your weird little state - all these Mormons hating
their own church school and anything to do with it. "I find it
ironic that your sentence ends with a statement condemning the Mormons that hate
(not me, I just dislike a lot about it... not everything) their own church
school, yet you start the same sentence talking about how, many of you -
dividing the church into groups - could never live in our "weird little
state." It's that attitude about us and them (Utah Mormons and non-Utah
Mormons) that needs to be swept from the church, and it's that same attitude
that makes many of us Ute fans hate our own church school and anything to do
Well after the 54-10 rout on ESPN I doubt BYU will have to worry about ANY
conference invites for a long time to come...
I don't want to see super conferences. They would concentrate too much power
and money in too few hands. This is the latest effort by the BCS to shut out
the schools they don't want to let in. If the super conferences
happen, they will likely have a playoff between the champions of those 4, 5 or 6
conferences and claim they have satisfied the wishes of the fans when in reality
they haven't, because no more teams will have true access to the title than
before. The super conferences will also destroy traditional
rivalries. As teams are separated from their rivals and 9 game conference
schedules don't leave enough non-conference spots for rivalry games to
happen.I hope the college Presidents have the guts to put a stop to
all this and settle things down. Lets have a true national championship
tournament that involves the champions of every conference no matter the
prestige or lack thereof.
@Pugmanim guessing that your post was an attempt at stand up comedy?
Hunt,Respect your opinion, but think about this. Utah will continue
to get the California recruits they've always had since none of the potential
teams joining the PAC conference recruit out of Cali. In addition
Utah would have more "exposure" in the states of Texas and Oklahoma
which could be a windfall for the U program. If I'm a 4 star recruit out of
Texas, but UT is loaded at my position, I would go to Utah if I knew I could
start there for 3 years rather than battle it out with other 4 & 5 star
recruits at UT.
Harmon is just worried that his beloved Cougs will be left out in the cold if
the Big 12 and the Big Least fall by the wayside. If those conferences fall
apart, and there is the Pac, ACC, SEC, and BIG Whatever all with 16 teams,
chances are BYU may not be invited to one of these super conferences. They might
have to make what Harmon called a Mongrel conference with Boise, TCU if the Big
East falls apart and they are not invited. Who knows.
This forum is great entertainment. The powerful Ute fans, fresh off a gift
wrapped victory over BYU. Anyone can defeat a team that has 7 turnovers. Oh, and
Ute fans, as of today, you still haven't beaten a PAC 12 team. The BYU fans
voiceing displeasure over a team that seems to be confused, playing with no
confidence or emotion. Bottom line folks...I've lived long enough to understand
this one truth.....Where there's money, there's coruption and you can bet that
everyone is on the take. College football.....really the only pure form of
football being played nowdays will go by the wayside. It will be replaced with
money, greed, etc. And for the really true powers of college football.....FSU,
Florida, Texas, Oklahoma, USC, UCLA, Michigan, Ohio State,Alabama, LSU, it will
be a dog fight for supremecy each year. And for the other schools in these
Excited to see the super conferences form. I think it is the first step of
doing away with the BCS stuff and ultimately the NCAA altogether. Then
conference affiliation won't have any importance at all. College
Football fans have been getting hosed by the NCAA for years and years. I don't
mean to sound bitter, but they have been a nightmare of a "governing
body". I don't agree with the way they have handled most of what they do,
from suspensions to determining who gets to be National Champ (before BCS) to
the BCS. Hopefully in 5 years or so the Universities will fire the NCAA and
take their product elsewhere.
The PAC-12 going to 16 will only server to dilute Utah's recruiting base as you
will have 4 new teams (two that are power houses)from outside the region now
competing for their critical West Coast recruits. This is a lose lose scenario
for Utah and could set them back to the point of not being able to even compete
at the level they did in the MWC.
Truth Machine: I did not state anything about Utah...rather I was focusing on
the exposure that a superconference will garner. Although BYU has a hefty
contract at the moment with ESPN, when the superconferences form, I don't think
it takes a genius to realize how TV contracts will change to favor those
teams/conferences. Unfortunately, BYU will be on the outside looking in. I did
hear though that the MWC may reconsider their application for membership.
Again, if I was a current player or recruit, I would definately reconsider
playing at BYU.
Sports Fan,Beginning next year Utah will play it's games on Fox
Sports and ESPN. 2011 is a transition year for the Utes. I think that's a
pretty decent trade off considering that in a few years the annual TV contract
will be in the low $30MM range.Why does all of this matter so much
to you? Since your team didn't get the job done on the field Saturday, then all
we have to talk about is the battle for exposure??? I think most people would
agree that Utah's in a pretty good spot with their new TV deal.
Um, I think Dick Harmon really wanted to write:Super conferences a
bad idea for BYU.@TruthSit Down!When are you
going to realize that Edwards recruits don't play for BYU. You're
not winning awards with recruits that rush for 11 yards in games and throw 3 TD
in three games.
@SportsFanhahahahahahahaha!!!!!great stuff! 54-10.
Truth Machine,You're obsessed with using the past to prove BYU is
superior to Utah. Once you move on and just accept the fact that Super
conferences are coming and that BYU is on the outside looking in you will be
able to let go of all the angst and hate. I personally hope BYU gets in a SC,
however bashing Utah's football program won't change the current situation
(super-conferences vs. independence).That's fine if you think Utah
will finish at the bottom of the PAC12 every year, but realize your team just
got drubbed by a PAC12 cellar dweller... makes your 9:34 post look silly.
Daventry1701We can compare TV contracts:BYU has an
exclusive 8-year contract with ESPN that guarantees that at least 4 BYU home
games will be broadcast on ESPN/ESPN2/ESPNU every year, and provides BYUtv
rights to rebroadcast any BYU game shown on ESPN, home or away, and to broadcast
any home game not shown on ESPN.This year that worked out to 10
games, minimum, on ESPN, and one home game on BYUtv.Call us the
first time Utah has 10 games on ESPN in the same year.
Brave Sir Robin Advice: Every team has its ups and downs, but BYU
has had alot more ups in the last 30 years than that team up north.And even in Utah's best decade ever, BYU still had more Top 25 finishes (both
polls) than Utah.
uteeee&theblowfish The stats are correct, Utah finished unranked
in the AP poll in 2010, which is the only poll Utah fans cite when talking about
their 2004 and 2008 Top 25 ranking.Steve Sarkisian won the Sammy
Baugh in 1996 and Luke Staley won the Doak Walker in 2001, just the latest of 15
national individual awards BYU has won:Heisman Trophy - 1Doak
Walker - 1Davey O'Brien - 4Outland Trophy - 2Sammy Baugh -
7National Individual AwardsBYU 15Utah 0One
or two claims to greatness > zero claims to greatnessBYU(14-1)
also won the 1997 Cotton Bowl and finished #5 in both polls with back-to-back
wins over Top 25 teams. If the BCS had been in existence at the time, with the
exact same qualify standards as existed for a non-AQ team in 2004, that is,
being the highest ranked non-AQ team in the Top 12, BYU would have been a lock
to play in BCS games in 1996 and 2001.1997 was only 15 months before
Utah's NCAA tourney championship run in 1998.Top 15 Finishes Last 5
YearsBYU 3Utah 1
ArticunoBYU | 9:47 a.m. Sept. 20, 2011 Highland, UT Looks like
Duckhunter is back with a new name. Where's Stockton is still MIA.
The biggest question is:Where is Duckhunter and Bluto??Bwahah ahaahahahaha aaaaahahahahah!
BYU football is the premier sports franchise in america. Spirit. Honor.
Integrity. Tradition. These values will lead us into the next phase of
football dominance. It will be awesome when the dust settles and all these
so-called powers will be begging BYU to play them. It will be such an honor
that BYU will be able to pull off 3-1 and even 4-1 deals. We will rarely have
to leave LES.
Truth machine.Want to compare tv contracts bro? Or athletic
budgets? Schedules? Bowls? Enjoy reality?
uteeee&theblowfish | 9:26 a.m. Sept. 20, 2011 SALT LAKE CITY, UT @ riddles"1st of all your stats are incorrect we finished
2008,2009,2010 seasons ranked. Right off the top of my head."Actually Riddles is correct. That is why he was so careful to say
"AP" finishes. In 2010 Utah finished ranked in the final coaches poll,
but was the first of "others recieving votes" in the AP poll. However,
when pressed, many cougar fans will quote the Utes coaches poll finish in 2008
(4th) as opposed to their #2 finish in the AP, which garnered first place votes.
It's a ploy to use statistics to prove a point, which point I'm guessing is that
BYU is a better program than Utah. It's a common ploy is to use selective
statistics on these boards, and neither side is immune. But his was a correct
Truth Machine, what advice are you going to give to BYU recruits when losing by
44 points at home to a "bottom tier" PAC 12 school becomes the norm?
Brave Sir Robin "Did I miss anything?"Yes, you
missed how hypocritical Utahs fan are, whining about how unfairly Utah was
treated by not being given a fair chance to prove themselves in 2004 and 2008,
and now mocking teams that are being locked out of the same unfair system.
wookieUtah fan mathmore exposure = 1 game on ESPN less exposure = 10 games on ESPNexposure is a double-edged sword,
but even bad publicity is better than being completely ignored (how many games
have you watched on the MTN this year?)what advice are you going to
give to Utah recruits when bottom tier finishes in the PAC 12 become the norm?
@ riddles1st of all your stats are incorrect we finished 2008,2009,2010
seasons ranked. Right off the top of my head. Secondly to argue since 1992 which
is NOW 20 years the cougars one claim to greatness is 1 Doak Walker award
winner. all that What Utes have done in sametime needs not be written.Secondly I can understand Byu's angst of things to come. But I think it worth
noting, IF TV and Marketing execs project MORE people watching it after
Conference realignment. It obviously means it will be more and more exciting.
That yes rivalries will be broken but new ones will be forged. Change is hard
but for a fan of Utah this will be a fun ride!
I agree all this realignment has disillusioned me. I am becoming a bigger fan of
the NFL. NCAA football has lost its nostalgia. I have stopped watching it.
I can sum up this entire article in two sentences:"I think
superconferences are a bad idea because BYU is going to be left out. If BYU
were going to be included, I would write an article about what a great idea the
superconference is."Did I miss anything?
niners"Yes Utah is going to be in one of the 4 "super
conferences" and BYU is going to end up in a completely irrelevant
league."Utah = dependent, a champion only by associationBYU = independent, a real championUtah will have just as much
chance of winning a NC in the PAC as they had in the WAC...that is,
ZERO.Utah's only relevance will be notches on the championship belts
of USC, Oklahoma, and Texas.
The fact of the matter is that BYU will be left out of the 4-5 superconferences
but may continue their independent schedule. They will likely only play a few
key teams early on and then WAC/MWC/CUSA teams to fill the remaining portion.
If I was a current Y player or a recent Y recruit, I'd probably decommit and go
to a school where you have a chance to receive more exposure (only if you are
skilled enough otherwise you'll lose your scholarship).
Dick you must be upset because this article is really a rant. Love the idea of
Super Conferences with the 64 teams willing and foolish enough to spend the
money to become really pro-college teams and play for national championship.
The problem the conference make up of these leagues are not very super. Tell me
all the super teams in the new super ACC, and how is the big 10 super with teams
like Minnesota, Michigan State, and Indiana, the vaunted SEC with this years
Auburn, Mississippi, and Vanderbilt. Not too mention the weakest of all
Conference of Champions with its Washington States, Washington, Oregon State,
Colorado. A conference that a low mid major in terms of spending like Utah is
going to be playing for the conference championship in its first season in the
league. These are all hype. And, think of the great teams now on the outside
like TCU and BSU. Nevertheless, it is a great time to watch the fun and see it
all depends on who's ox is being gored in what is ethical or not ethical in
@eastcoastcougAre you really telling me that if BYU won on Saturday by 44
points that they wouldn't be rubbing it in? Give me a break. BYU fans were
rubbing it in when Utah lost to TCU even though BYU didn't play. Now that's
@ riddles in the darkHey buddy, everything will be okay. Yes Utah
is going to be in one of the 4 "super conferences" and BYU is going to
end up in a completely irrelevant league. or just stay independent with
absolutely nothing to play for, just like Utah State was 9 or 10 years ago. Do
you realize BYU has done absolutely nothing relevant to college football since
1990! Since then Utah has finished in the AP top ten 3 times, two BCS wins, 2
UNDEFEATED seasons and the last 20 years Utah leads the rivalry 12 to 8. We
have won 7 out of the last 10 and we also beat you 54 to 10 three days ago
(seems as if you already forgotten). Utah's last 3 wins against BYU as a
combined score of 119-50. Oh and by the way 1984 was the year the Cosby show
premiered! Wow that is a long time ago! SMU fans don't even brag about the 80's
as much as BYU fans. Shows how insecure your whole fan base is when all you
have to say is "1984".
The real issue is see with the super conferences is that it will eventually kill
football. Regional rivalry will die. Teams will start to play only other teams
in the Super conference instead of teams from other conferences. The super
conferences will then clamour just the way the BCS conferences do that the teams
from the non-Super Conference shouldn't be playing in a BCS game because they
haven't proved themselves. The next BSU, BYU, Utah, TCU will be forever
excluded from even having a chance to play for the national title. 10 years
ago, no one would have expected Boise State to be considered a national title
contender, but they are now. If SC are the way of the future, then
I say make the teams play their way into the conference. Each year the two
weakest teams in a conference should be required to dropout of the conference
and be replaced by the two strongest teams from the non-super conferences close
by. If there were 5 Super conferences, then 10 teams would drop out and 10
would be added each year. If this happened, we would see parity and
real football again.
If all goes as many predict (OU, Okie State, TTU and UT to Pac 16; ACC goes to
16 with two more, SEC adds more, etc.), it will create a 64 team super league
with all others playing essentially Division II football. There will be only
one super league in the west and that leaves BYU in the Division II league.
That will make things difficult - less money, inability to schedule big teams,
loss of fans and probably recruits. They may decide to abandon football and be
fine with the WCC which is a non-football conference. Ute fans will be
delirious over this and say it proves their superiority. Go ahead, enjoy your
day in the sun. and congratulations to a huge victory last Saturday. You had
the audacity to show up ready to play and my Coug's did not. But down the
road, I think everyone will miss something that's been great for a lot of
decades. But $$$ will rule.
BYU is the most elite program in the country. We will rise to the top. We WILL
be included in the superconferences. Dick Harmon and Bronco have said so. Greg
I predict the Super Conference will happen and within 7 years Schools will turn
against it and will go back to 10 teams. The WAC in the 90's is a good example
as Alumni, and presidents wanted out as fast as they could thus the MWC. As
smart as some of these Presidents seem to be, it makes you wonder if they are
thinking with their wallets or their brain. If am Utah, I would not be in favor
of 16 teams because if the original PAC 10 becomes unhappy with a Super
conference, bye bye Utah! 12 teams is perfect and they should keep it that way
It is interesting what a year has done to the ego of a ute fan. Just a few
years ago they were complaining about a system that kept them out of a national
championship game. Now they are praising a system that would be more exclusive
to those not apart of that system. Last year they get slaughtered at home
by TCU on national tv. Now is seems as that loss never happened and all
humility of such a kick out the window. I am shocked at some of the
comments that delight in the possibility of BYU getting left out of a bigger
conference or in success as an independant. Why all the hate? Is this still
left over animosity from the dominance of BYU in the 80's and 90's?If so,
I guess it is not just the BYU fans who cannot let go of 1984.
Well, my Rebels or Lobos won't make it any way you stretch but I too think that
this super conference idea is absolutely stupid. If you are only going to play
the 3 teams in your pod every year, and then only 2 from the other pods, why
have a conference? The logic here is lost and you've destroyed everything in
the process. Sure doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy. I still like the
regional approach to things and the rivalries it produces. I don't very excited
with TCU being in the MWC or Hawaii joining next year. Everything just becomes
too disjointed. Just seems like we've been down this road before and it didn't
work then....and I don't think it will work now.
BYU left the WAC high and dry - twice!- and bailed on the MWC because they could
get more money and exposure as a bachelor. BYU's awareness/complicity of the
WAC's attempt to raid the MWC, because it would have benefitted *them*, was
rewarded with WAC defections of Fresno and Nevada, and later, Hawaii, to the
MWCCommenting on MWC teams vowing to not play BYU again, Tom Holmoe
flippantly said "they'll get over it". This is like the guy who
declares to all the women he's dated that he intends to remain a bachelor, until
the truly right offer comes along, declaring "but there are some of you I
wouldn't mind going on a vacation with, when you're done crying".BYU is like the political "climber" at the office, positioning
individualistically, only to cry foul when a merger happens and blocks their
path to the top floor. Crocodile tears. Boo-hoo.
The assessment is correct that super conferences are a bad thing and they are
driven by ego and $$$ - the very same thing that caused the Utes to go to the
PAC 12 and the Cougs to go Independent. If we are throwing super conferences
under the bus we have to say the same thing about the moves made by the U and Y
This really started a number of years ago with ND signing their exclusive
contract with NBC. That started the ball rolling. Schools wanting to be part
of a conference and collecting money and yet thinking they are larger than the
whole and wanting their own networks. I know many will not want to hear this,
however I feel ESPN is one of the biggest contributors to this whole thing.
Unfortunatly money is the issue. It takes money to run businesses and college
athletics are businesses. Yes rivals go away, things change, however budgets
must be met and it takes money to do that. No realignment in sports is not
always fair, may not work etc. but then life is not fair and many of these
things happen every day in the real world, so until somebody comes up with a
perfect solution that makes everybody happy, this will continue to evolve.
This is what happens when you abdicate your responsibility as a governing body.
The NCAA has little authority to do anything of meaning in college football. The
BCS could stop this by granting AQ status to the MWC and signing a contract
guaranteeing the AQ status of all other current conferences despite expansion.
This would level the expansion playing field. Super conferences will demand two
BCS bids (anyone think the SEC will let only one team get an automatic bid or
the Big 10?) to represent the conference. Scheduling anyone outside the
conference of 16 members will become virtually impossible. Then you have other
issues such as former "in" universities like Baylor being out while
former "outs" like TCU are now included. This will get a whole lot
uglier before it gets better. There could be massive litigation involved.
Football is BIG business now with billions of dollars attached that the
universities desperately need. Also, some state legislatures may also threaten
actions in order to protect universities. The selfishness has only just begun
and it looks like a lawyers bonanza.
We can thank the system (BCS) that has created this behavior. Everybody wants to
be BCS eligible. Therefore, everybody is willing to do what it takes to be able
to play for a legitimate BCS bowl. Lets go to a playoff system and scrap the
BCS. This would eliminate the current rush to super conferences.
Classless Ute Fan Call us when you've actually accomplished
something on a national scale, like become a perennial Top 25 team, or won a
national individual award (of any kind), or had a single player inducted into
the national college football hall of fame, or won a Heisman Trophy, or, the
creme-de-la-creme, won a concensus national championship.Over 50
teams have played in BCS games since 1998.Only 13 teams have won a
concensus national championships since 1984.You do the math and tell
me which is more prestigious.AP Top 25 Last 5 YearsBYU 4Utah 2AP Top 25 LifetimeBYU 17Utah 5
Dick - congrats on writing an article on expansion without mentioning BYU.
Things must be pretty bad there.Ute fans - showing once again your
lack of class, continuing to pile it on BYU even after the lopsided win. One
more reason many of us could never live in your weird little state - all these
Mormons hating their own church school and anything to do with it. Signing off for the season...
BYU went "Independent" Dick, so why all the commotion about the Super
Conference?Hypocrisy getting the best of you?
Super Conferences, and the BCS, are terrible for college football. They cater
to the privileged, not the talented and deserving. Utah should know this more
than anybody when they were kept out of NC game in 2008 simply because they
weren't a "privileged" team. Boise St. is a college football
powerhouse and they get kept out of the NC game because they are labeled
"Non-AQ." What about the Big East? Their so-called champion went to
a BCS bowl simply because of a label when 30 other teams were more deserving
based off of performance. It's all a big joke people. Let go of the pride and
open your eyes! The idea that anyone is more deserving simply because they
belong to one of these conferences is absurd (Did I mention the Big East???).
To say that only 64 schools are deserving of ever competing for a title is
ridiculous. Who's to say that USU could never compete for a title? We all saw
what they did to Auburn. Alabama could become New Mexico. San Jose St. could
rise to power. The story of college football disappears and greatness ends with
super conferences and becomes a joke.
1. This will happen because of the money involved2. There are 64
slots in 4 superconferences of 16 each. That means 2 current BCS teams are on
the outs.3. Because of #2 that is why you see Syracuse and Pitt
jumping from the Big East.4. The two Texas school and OK schools
are actively negotiating with the Pac 125. The Big East is in talks
to merge with the Big 126. The SEC and Big 10 are already
contacting teams from the Big 12 and A&M is jumping to SEC.Is it
a good idea? Maybe not but you can pinpoint the BCS and this current merger
climate on one thing, the mythical BYU season where they beat no one and claim
to have some national title.This is the payback BYU, no one likes
you.As for "Utah's Lucky Win", I will take the U blowing
out BYU any way I can get. You are the one living with the heartache of the
loss and your efforts to conceal it are sad.
Cougars - Wise Older Brother***Despite the lucky win Saturday, it's
hilarious to see the kids on the hill are still running scared of their big
brother, hoping that he'll just go away.***Let's evaluate your
statement. First, a 44 point win is not normally considered lucky. Second, 7
wins in the last 10 years (3 of which were huge blowout wins), again, not luck.
Last, the 3 wins that BYU has in that time was on last second plays or OT, which
by my definition is lucky. So, it looks like BYU was the lucky team to beat Utah
at all in the last 10 years.Utah was founded in 1850, BYU was a
private high school bought in 1875. So Utah would be the wise older brother.
Number of students, I think that BYU has a slight edge. So, you need to change
your name to maybe bigger but definitely not wise older brother.
I don't see Texas A&M as the villain here. Everything I've seen would
indicate that Texas likes to throw its weight around and now the conference they
manhandled is crumbling around them. It looks like they are going to have to
give in on some things or try to make it as an independent. It will be
interesting to see what happens.
Dick u are not Fooling anybody the only reason u don't want it to happen is
because you are scared to death that your beloved cougars will b left out in the
cold. Poor attempt to try and bring up other lame excuses.
Syracuse coach Jim Boeheim. "Everybody knows why we are doing this
football and money."It's interesting because 30 years ago
schools made X amount of money. Twenty years ago, they made 2X. Ten years ago,
they made 6X. And you know what? They're going end up breaking even, just like
they did 30 years ago. At the end of the day, there's a school with a
billion-dollar budget and they're talking about making an extra $4 million. What
does that really mean when your school's budget is a billion dollars? --------While schools make 2x, 6x, 15x, 20x, according to a study
cited on PBS the average college scholarship falls $3,000 short of covering
BASIC academic and living expenses. Meantime, the Athletic departments build
fancy digs for donors, arena-temples to the football and basketball gods, and
pay coaches $5 million per year while many "student athletes" graduate
with degrees in basket weaving. How very, very Roman of us...
I agree with Harmon that this "superconference" idea that seems all
the rage right now could in fact turn out to be a big mistake after people get a
chance to see how it actually works. It is not beyond the realm of possibility
that the PAC 16, if it comes to pass, may not be all everybody thought or hoped
it would be, and in 10 or 15 years, maybe less, schools are looking to get out
of the deal in just the way Utah and BYU decided they wanted out of the
"superconference" WAC. And if that happens, Utah might just find
itself once again on the outside looking in.As a Ute fan, that
worries me. Things are moving a little too fast and furious right now, and I'm
not sure people really know what they're getting into.
I think Harmon ought to remember some of the stuff BYU was trying to pull at the
time it made the decision to go independent. BYU's sports administration was
engaged in a lot of behind-the-scenes maneuvering to get teams from the MWC to
jump ship and go to the WAC. Had these efforts been successful, the MWC would
likely have imploded the way people are saying the Big 12 will probably implode
if Texas and Oklahoma leave. And had that happened, does Harmon suppose anyone
at BYU would have shed crocodile tears for schools left in the dust such as Air
Force, CSU, or others?And then of course we should all remember Utah
and BYU packing their bags in the middle of the night to ditch the WAC when they
and the founding MWC schools got that enterprise going.Simply put,
neither Utah nor BYU - and particularly not BYU - has any business critiquing
other schools who "hypocritically" abandon oaths of allegiance to
conferences or sister institutions "at the drop of a coin."
Cougars - Wise Older BrothersYou aint seen nothing yet. Youll be
screaming about "running scared" when we wont schedule byu anymore.
Losing to BYU will be embarrasing and beating them means nothing. No reason to
play. Welcome to the new order.
Good conclusion - I agree that super-conferences are not a good thing - Except
Dick Harmon wrote it. Any semblance of objectivity goes out the window when
Utah and BYU are discussed.
Daventry1701"Yes...it sends BYU to football oblivion but thats
just an added bonus."Despite the lucky win Saturday, it's
hillarious to see the kids on the hill are still running scared of their big
brother, hoping that he'll just go away.
Bad idea or not, the move by the ACC picking up their 13th and 14th schools, and
maybe two more, along with A&M wanting to go to the SEC with their blessing,
BCS superconferences will happen.Whether it ends up as four 16-team
BCS conferences, or five mix-sized BCS conferences (with the Big East and Big
XII combining) remains to be seen.BYU's best hope for inclusion in a
BCS conference is if it ends up with five mix-sized, such as some at 16, some at
14, and some at 12.If it evolves into four 16-team superconferences,
BYU will have to make independence work.Keep in mind that the only
reason Notre Dame has remained independent in football is that they've had the
Big East to park their other sports in. Could be a issue for them if the Big
Hypocrite. Has this guy forgotten that Utah is in the PAC precisely because of
conference expansion? Typical of the new guys, they get in and immediately want
to shut the door to others.
Super conferences are great for college football!!!! Youll have 4 conference
champions taken from championship games. If the BCS goes to a and one format
(which theyll have no choice) what you'll have is essentially an 8 team playoff
in college football....Amongst those BCS conferences. This pushes it in the
right direction. Yes...it sends BYU to football oblivion but thats just an
You're right Dick. Utah would be much better off in the PAC 12, rather than in a
PAC 16 not-so-super-conference. Unfortunately, Utah doesn't look like they have
the guts to stick up for what's in their own best interest.
When BYU announced its independent, it was "me, me, me, me" as
well.And now, it looks like BYU may be standing on the sideline
watching all of these super-conferences being formed.Utah, on the
other hand, will wait to see what the new Pac-xx looks like.
Not being bitter, as I am a fan of both the U and the Y, but where was this
outrage when Utah left the Mountain West for the Pac 12? I believe that was the
start of all the shakeup, not what is taking place now.