Re: Lane Myer | 4:44 p.m. Sept. 19, 2011"the Republicans motto: Spend
and don't tax - just run up the deficit!"No, the Republican
motto is "Don't spend money you don't have, and [put a little aside for a
rainy day."Those who under stand interest earn it while those
who don't pay it.
@ tom jr.,I was agreeing with you, and liked the perspective of your
last paragraph that I referred to. Sorry if my comparison to my mortgage sounded
otherwise.I was just making a feeble point at how tough this is
going to be to fix.
As a person who makes over $250,000 and one who runs a small business I simply
offer you this. As my profits increase, I hire more people. I then pay payroll
tax on these people. If my taxes were to be increased, then my profits would be
decreased. I would be forced to lay off one or more people ( I currently employ
14 people with a business that did $1.3 million worth of business). We can
pretend this, that, and the other, but I personally am not willing to pay 3-7%
more in taxes and take a loss of $15-20,000 in profits. This is how small
businesses work. We are the backbone of the US. Not too many loopholes for the
non-uber rich upper middle class, so I have to pass on my losses to others. Keep
my taxes where they are! As it is, I work January to May for the government, I'm
not willing to throw in June.
If we went to a true flat tax the rich would be squealing. The flat tax
proponents all want their own little pet deductions for businesses that the
average joe doesn't get (kind of like things are now). Tax me on my increase
and tax the the millionaire on his increase and don't give any of us any
deductions and I am good with it.
Re: JoeBlow | 4:42 p.m. Sept. 19, 2011 You really sure you want to
hear the honest answer? In the New York 9th US House District a novice
Republican with $200,000 beat a well known Democrat with $500,000 where
Democrats have a 3 to 1 ratio of registered voters. Even Bill Clinton's
personal pleas couldn't save the Democrat.People are worse off today
than they were 3 years ago and don't believe Obama is able git-r-done. The
proof is in Bob Turner's election and you'd better believe Obama is losing sleep
@what'sinitformeThe Boston University economist is saying that we
need massive tax increases or massive spending cuts to close the fiscal gap.
Selling our souls to China, for example, is simply increasing our debt load.
He's talking taxes and cuts, not selling more debt instruments.The
President's current recommendation is to cut $3 Trillion in spending over ten
years. Projections are that we will spend $1.5 Trillion more than we take in
for each of ten years, or that we will add $15 Trillion to our current $15
Trillion dollar national debt, or $30 Trillion in ten years. Obama's cuts will
make that only $27 Trillion in ten years, which should make all of us feel
better, especially the boys and girls at S&P.The answers are
MASSIVE cuts, and/or MASSIVE tax increases. Our people in Washington are
proposing band-aids when amputations are needed. We are in a profound fix.
You will never solve the problem by 'taxing the rich', there aren't enough
'rich'. Over 46% of Americans pay no federal taxes. Obama is always saying
everyone should have skin in the game. To solve the problem we have to put a
limit on spending by government and overhaul the tax code, drop the personal and
corporate income tax and either have a national sales tax or a consumption tax.
We also have to get a Balanced Budget Amendment to the Constitution. Obama's
plan is really just a campaign speech. By the way, where is the media on his
plan to reduce Medicare benefits? I listened to the speech and I heard him, so
where is the outrage? We don't see an add show Obama pushing an old person over
a cliff in a wheelchair. It is class warfare, not math!
wer | 1:21 p.m. Sept. 19, 2011 South Jordan, UT It used to be
"tax and spend". Now it's "spend and tax".---------------Which is better than the Republicans motto:"Spend and don't tax - just run up the deficit!"
"Since nothing else Obama has tried has worked the time has come to dust
off the old playbook and try this tried and true strategy."3
easy questionsCan you tell me what shape the economy was in when
Obama took over?Can you tell me why it was there?Can you
tell me who was in charge when it got there?Honest answers only
@ tom jr.,Interesting post. Especially your last paragraph.So, fixing the U.S. debt problem would be like me trying to figure out how to
pay off my mortgage. Either I suddenly cut all of my spending outside of
critical stuff for the rest of my life, or I get another job.Or, I
just sell the house and live however I can (renting) for the rest of my life.The equivalent to that for the U.S. would be to sell its soul to the
rest of the world (kind of already doing that, heh), then just happily go off
into the future debt-free, but owned by the rest of the world.This
debt issue simply proves that you can't tax and spend your way to prosperity,
like liberals think you can.
Rifleman | 2:12 p.m. Sept. 19, 2011 Salt Lake City, Utah Tax the
rich. Something every middle class voter should be in favor of. Since nothing
else Obama has tried has worked the time has come to dust off the old playbook
and try this tried and true strategy. Time to punish the greedy rich people for
their industry and hard work ethic. -------------Find
out how many jobs were created during Clinton's 8 years in office - he raised
taxes on the rich.Compare them to how many jobs were created during
Bush's 8 years in office - he cut taxes on the rich.These are the
latest figures we have to compare the differences.Guess who wins
I love to see people try to defend the Uber rich. It goes like this: Q: Please
remind me again why the super rich shouldn't pay more taxes? A: b/c The bottom
50% doesn't pay taxes. Q: But the bottom 50% don't have any money. A: Well,
if the super rich keep getting taxed it will never ever trickle down. Oh, I
see clearly now.
This from Laurence J. Kotlikoff, Boston University:We're broke for a
reason. We've spent six decades accumulating a huge official debt (U.S. Treasury
bills and bonds) and vastly larger unofficial debts to pay for Social Security,
Medicare, and Medicaid benefits to today's and tomorrow's 100 million-plus
retirees.The government's total indebtedness -- its fiscal gap -- now
stands at $211 trillion, by my arithmetic. The fiscal gap is the difference,
measured in present value, between all projected future spending obligations --
including our huge defense expenditures and massive entitlement programs, as
well as making interest and principal payments on the official debt -- and all
projected future taxes.To grasp the magnitude of our nation's insolvency,
consider what tax hikes or spending cuts are needed to eliminate our fiscal gap.
The answer is an immediate and permanent 64% increase in all federal revenues or
an immediate and permanent 40% cut in all federal noninterest spending.
@common sense in Idaho,Can you tell me where I can find a copy of
this debt plan? Are there any evidence of BO trying to reduce debt
in any form?
According to the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, it is true that ONLY 38
percent of "tax units" which can be singles, couples, or families
are projected to have zero or negative income tax liability in 2009. About 60%
of these households make < $20,000 per year.Being exempt from
income tax doesn't mean youre exempt from federal taxes. Everyone
who works is liable for payroll taxes, contributions to Medicare and Social
Security that come out of every paycheck. There are also excise taxes on some
goods and services, most notably the 18.4 cents per gallon tax on gasoline. The Congressional Budget Office found that earners in the lowest
quintile, where most of those with no income tax liability fall, shouldered 4.3%
of the payroll tax burden in 2005 and 11.1% of the excise taxes. Their effective
tax rate (in those categories, according to the CBO, was in fact significantly
higher than the rate of the top quintile.
For those liking the idea of taxing everyone the same, like a flat tax (say
10%), you're not thinking clearly.The poor and the lower half of the
middle class wouldn't survive on their low incomes if they paid that much tax.
They currently don't with today's tax system, and barely make it as it is.And, the richer half of the U.S. already pays more than 10%. So a flat
tax would simply make things worse for the poor and better for the rich, the
exact opposite of what you want!And even making it so the poorer
people don't pay the full 10% still doesn't let the richer off the hook.The tax code needs rewritten, not replaced.
Tax the rich. Something every middle class voter should be in favor of. Since
nothing else Obama has tried has worked the time has come to dust off the old
playbook and try this tried and true strategy. Time to punish the greedy rich
people for their industry and hard work ethic.
Hey BLUR, let's eliminate taxes on the wealthy completely. That's what you are
proposing. Right? Then let's raise the taxes on the poor people of the
country.Thus more jobs will be created.Brilliant.It needs to be fair and balanced. A middle of the road approach.
Everyone paying their fair share.Get it now??
richie:o's talk for next weekbush badbush's faultinherited a terrible economyrich badnon taxpayers goodspending is goodcutting expenses is badgovernment grows jobscapitalism is bad
Increase taxes on the rich and at the same time give corporate welfare to my
political buddies. Mr. Obama may be really intelligent but he isn't very smart.
His plans and actions continue to run the economy down the drain.For
you Socialists out there, how many of you have gotten a job from a homeless
person or somebody living below poverty level? My guess is none. How many of you
have gotten a job from somebody including corporations that had incomes of over
$250,000? My guess, all most all of you. The more money the rich have the more
they will spend and the more jobs that will be created. When did you get the
stupid idea that the rich stuff their money into mattresses? Tax
warfare on the rich is nothing but economic war on yourself.
It used to be "tax and spend". Now it's "spend and tax".Anybody who thinks he is trying to do anything other than get
re-elected, just raise your hand.Thought so...
Re: FDRfan | 12:37 p.m. Sept. 19, 2011 The Democrats were in control
of the House when Obama said "We dont mind the Republicans joining us. They
can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back. Now that Republicans are in
control of the House and timid Democratic Senators and Representatives are
siding with them Obama may be wishing he'd been a little less divisive.If you want something from somebody it always helps if you are nice.
I think every one filing a tax return ought to pay at least some money ($5.00 or
more) to the US Treasury, even those getting earned income credit. But the
President's tax proposal and jobs bill should be passed. He was elected
President by a substantial margin of American voters yet the obstructionist
Congress, who represent only the wealthy few, have managed to block his every
move. We can do nothing but hunker down until election 2012. Hopefully, a 3rd
party will emerge and represent the values and economic interests of the middle
Here goes more American jobs. Thanks to the GOP. State-run Chinese companies
are pouring billions of dollars into development projects in a region long
considered Americas backyard the Caribbean. "Ross Perot was fiercely
against NAFTA. Knowing what we know now, was Ross Perot right?." Efforts
to reduce the federal deficit are critical to the future of our nation. These
cuts, however, must be part of a more comprehensive plan that will encourage job
creation in the private sector in order to put unemployed Americans back to
work. The plan should include comprehensive tax reform that will lower both
personal and corporate tax rates, as well eliminate tax loopholes. In addition,
Washington needs to reduce the number of government regulations that are
strangling private sector growth and job creation. They want to cut Social
Security and Medicare benefits for baby boomers, calling these old-age
subsidies. We didn't borrow from our retirement fund. Our congressmen did. Cut
the programs they created from our retirement fund, not Social Security and
Medicare. Tax the ultra-rich. What are you scared of?. NO MORE Corporation
KICK-BACKS and trips from lobbyists and bureaucrats?. I think so.Like it or not, "My Views."
@Spring street "So any ideas of how to get our elected officials attention
and get them to focus on reasonable changes?"I think you have
summed up the problem of our age. I've said before that we don't need
"get-out-the-vote" campaigns but voter education campaigns. Let's not
encourage people to vote who don't care. I think the way we reward seniority in
congress is part of it. People defend Orrin Hatch because of potential
committee assignments, but we need new blood. The current system encourages the
go along to get along mentality and kicking problems down the road. We need a
way to reward the politicians who make the difficult choices. Finally I think
we have to change the view of what the role of government is in our lives if we
want lower taxes. We can only accomplish lower taxes with a smaller government
that does less for us. People talk a lot about compromise but the only
compromise we ever get in Washington is an ever more progressively-sized
government with a continually conservatively-taxed people. The numbers don't
What is Obama's plan for next week? I don't even watch him on TV anymore. When
are the people going to put the hammer down on this community organizer. He
couldn't balance a check book.
Obama is just another liberal political hack. He would have us go back to the
old Roosevelt era of taxing the wealth up to 90%. We need a tax system that is
fair and uniform across the board; i.e. 10% for everyone....no credits or
deductions across the board. What is fair about taxing someone 30%, 40%, 50% or
whatever amount someone could conjure up and say it is fair? That just defies
logic or common sense. We are alread overtaxed significantly when the local
city/county, state, federal taxes are added up. The aggregate total of these
taxes are already confiscating up to 50% of our disposable income. The question
to be asked is how much government can we afford? Government spending at all
levels of government is out of control, and all of this is exasperated by the
growing unionism in the public (government) sector. I am sick of it. We can't
afford it. It needs to be reined in and soon, or this country will sink.
The real Carnak could at least see into the future and divine answers that had
been kept in a mayonnaise jar on Funk and Wagnalls' front porch since noon
yesterday. He did not exaggerate the inaccurate statements of those
whose job it is to provide misinformation about this Administration. "60% of Americans pay NO taxes" is something you cannot document
because it is not true.
@KM...I mean how many jobs will be created. Republicans always say
that taxing the job creators is bad policy. Well, I am willing to believe that
if they can demonstrate that the previous "Bush" tax cuts actually
created jobs...quantify please and show us studies that indicate for each 1% of
taxes cut at the upper levels, X number of jobs will be created. Unless the
facts/studies are there we just have empty Republican mantras.Why
would want one want to read the tax book? The tax code has been created mostly
to give the rich tax breaks. What is fair to me that we each pay in varying
degrees according to our ability to pay. What you want is equality and equality
in tax burdens is not necessarily fair in my opinion. The President
divides our country? Really? I thought it was all the Republicans who
questioned the President's citizenship, have called him a communist, socialist
and now advocating "class warfare" that have divided the country. Sal
Alinsky is one of the great leaders of the nonsocialist left, so I am confused
by your point.
I totally agree with Obama on everyone doing their part. Everyone should pay
tax. If stimulus checks are mailed out, everyone should get one. Enough with
the 46% of earners who are getting a free ride to live in this wonderful
country. Let's all roll up our sleeves and start paying our own way.
Seems like a reasonable place to start. Not sure why so many on this board are
so opposed to closing loopholes that are only available to certain groups or to
the wealthiest of Americans, and at the same time went to extract a few dollars
from those who can't even feed their family now. It frightens may that so many
in this state believe that to consider asking the wealthy to pay a little bit
more in taxes is such a horrible idea. Before anyone goes crazy please don't
tell me they already pay 80% of the income tax. They have 90% of the money so
they are getting of light. They wealthy are not creating jobs right now, they
are simply getting wealthier, and the republicans want to cut their taxes so
they can have all the money not just most of the money. I am in what is left of
the middle class, the FICA break helps me, but notice the republicans are
against that, because it really doesn't help the wealthy, because they pay no
FICA taxes on their income over $100,000.
Before asking the people already paying 90% of the total tax revenue (that's
right people, the top 5% of earners in America pay over 90% of the total tax
revenue collected by the Treasury) to pay more, how about a plan to have the 60%
of Americans who pay NO tax, pay atleast some tax.
justgordonDon't you mean how many jobs will be 'saved or created?'
Also, you sound like you are all for fairness. If that is the case
then you believe that everybody should have some skin in the game no matter how
little or much they make. Have you ever read the fair tax book? It sure would
be better than the tax system we have now, that only divides us and is used to
buy votes from dependent people.Why does this president always
divide our country by race or class? Sal Alinsky is alive and well, and lives
in the white house.
Allright Real debt reduction finally instead of mean-spirited tea party cut
welfare and social programs the evangelicals don't like only.
spring street | 11:00 a.m. Sept. 19, 2011 "We have tried the
old throw the bums out many times but frankly it gets us nowhere." How hard
have we tried w/senator Orrin Hatch in his 34th year.
If the President's plan is "class warfare," then surely the
Republican plan to gut Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid is genocide on the
Middle Class.The 50% that don't pay any income tax is a fabrication.
The majority of Americans who do not pay income taxes are single mothers with
children or singles who work part time or at minimum income jobs. The correct
percentage is closer to 38% and most of those people are the result of the
earned income tax credit championed by the Bush administration.Why
shouldn't the rich pay at least as much in taxes as I pay? If tax cuts really
do produce jobs, how many jobs exist because of the last two "Bush"
tax cuts? How many jobs will be created for each 1% in taxes we cut? Make
Republicans cite some reliable study on both questions.
@knayrb01 - the troops will not be unemployed. Most of them are active duty and
will just retrun to home station like they always have. Those that are in the
National Guard or reserves will return to the same jobs they had when they were
initially deployed. USERRA law guarantees that these troops can return to their
previous job. In any case, we have been rotating active duty and guard troops
through that region for the last 8 1/2 years. It's a pretty standard procedure
by now. Besides, the Status Of Forces Agreement signed in 2008 by President
Bush mandates that we will have all troops out by the end of 2011.
@richard saunders I agree, I think we need to look at how we do
business from top to bottom. I think any ends to the tax cuts need to come with
fiscal responsibility and the added revenue actually needs go go towards that
end. So any ideas of how to get our elected officials attention and get them to
focus on reasonable changes? We have tried the old throw the bums out many times
but frankly it gets us nowhere. There is so much bad information out there its
hard to wade through it all and try to find out whats really going on. Its far
to easy to just find an answer that already fits our preconceived ideas and stop
looking. Its going to take a far amount of discipline by the voters to get the
right information and then try to hold their elected officials accountable.
""We can't just cut our way out of this hole," the president
said."Then why did you dig the hole that deep, Mr. President?
Wasn't it deep enough as it was before you came along and decided to make it a
For the last unbelievable time Obama's plan does include spending cuts. READ
THE PLAN. For goodness sake. It's a balanced approach to cutting the deficit.
Increased revenues and spending cuts. Who here doesn't get that?That's what it's going to take. Let's get on with it. No more bickering
while the country flounders.Also to the poster who said what about
the unemployment rate if the wars are ended. Why don't we start another two or
three wars? Think of the additional employment we will have. Pure genius.
Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell, Senate Republican leader, said the proposal would
hurt corporate investment in an already stagnating economy caused by the Koch
Brother's. He lies. State-run Chinese companies are pouring billions of
dollars into development projects in a region long considered Americas backyard
the Caribbean. China announced this week last it will provide $1 billion in
loans to Caribbean nations to finance infrastructure projects. The loans will be
made available through the state-run China Development Bank, Chinas Vice Premier
Wang Qishan said in Port of Spain, capital of Trinidad and Tobago. China's
wooing of the Caribbean is part of a global push by Beijing promoting loans and
investment while seeking natural resources and political influence in the
developing world from Africa to Latin America. U.S. Tea Party non-leaders
criticized President Barack Obama's proposal for a new tax on millionaires,
calling it "class warfare" and predicting it will face heavy
opposition in Congress. Obama is expected to propose a "Buffett Tax"
on people making more than $1 million a year as part of his recommendations to a
congressional super committee seeking long-term deficit savings. Taxing the
ultra-rich - great idea.
@spring streetI think we can have an adult conversation about this. I,
personally, would hate to see any sort of tax hike be part of the equation,
because it has been promised before as a way to balance the budget, but only led
to more spending. BUT, if I am serious about balancing the budget, and I think
I am, expiration of the Bush tax cuts has to be part of the plan. (they were
never meant them to be permanent anyway). Everything has to be on the table.
Military spending, the entitlements, some social programs will have to be cut or
eliminated. We need overhaul and reform of the tax code. I think this should
be our baseline. We have to agree that everything has to be part of the
process, and then we can argue about amounts and timing and what makes us most
solvent in the future.
Withdrawing all those troops from Iraq and Afghanistan means that all those
troops will be unemployed. Was that calculated in the equation? Taxing the rich doesn't help because there isn't enough rich to make much
difference. The rich will pass the cost onto the middle class anyway by
reducing income of workers or charging more for products. Obama must cut
programs and people need to quit relying on the government for day to day
One of the proposals of this plan is to change the way depreciaition of private
jets is calculated. This is sure to wreck the economy.
I listened to his speech and he really has no idea what he is talking about or
he knows he is lying. Liberals have to agree that his speech was very
misleading. Buffets income tax rate is higher than his secretary's. It's his
captial gains rate (15%) that is lower than his secretary's, but all the money
he uses to invest to get captial gains has already been taxed at a very high
35%. He is not being honest.
@Whatsinitformeright because letting the ultra rich keep more of
their money has really helped our economy over the last 10 years, right? NOT!Look I said it on the other thread of the same article and I will say it
again here. We can go back and forth exchanging empty rhetoric (yes my comment
above included) all day or we can grow up and realize any recovery is going to
have to come from a combinations of cuts in services, increases in taxes and
reforms of the system, but somehow I doubt this thread will ever get to a place
we can have adult conversation about what we need to do, what do you all think?
Prove me wrong, please prove me wrong I really want to be wrong about our
ability to come up with realistic solutions.
Tax and spend. Yup. That's definitely the way to prosperity. It's a time-proven
process. Right?The more you tax your citizens, no matter their
income, the more money they'll have to put back into the economy. Right?Yup, that really makes sense, doesn't it?NOT!
$1 of the "spending reduction" comes from reductions that already were
going to occur (Iraq and Afghanistan).As for raising taxes on the
wealthy and corporations: "'It's only right we ask everyone to pay their
fair share,' Obama said."So, is it fair that nearly 50% of
income earners do not pay federal income taxes? Obama was quoted as saying
everyone should pay their fair share but he only wants to raise taxes on the
wealthiest. I'm not opposed to tax increases on the wealthiest but we should
also do something about the 50% who do not pay. People have a difficult time
feeling responsibility for things that they receive for free (the federal
government). It's easy to want the government to do more when you do not have to
foot the bill.Raising corporate income taxes is not a good idea
though. We need to reduce corporate income taxes and streamline all of our
taxes. Both Jon Hunstman and Mitt Romney have good ideas about addressing the
deficit.Pres. Obama's plan is an okay plan but it's not the best fix
for the problem. At best it delays the consequences of our fiscal
irresponsibility a few years.
just can't wait for buffet to be paying the same taxes as his secretary and for
o's buddy jeff at ge to start paying taxes at all. you gotta love o and his
continued class warfare and lack of reality. this is really going to get the
economy going. libs better push hillary to run....did i really say that? c.o.
gone in 15 months. wish it were sooner.