Comments about ‘All for one and one for all: When mainstreaming isn't working’

Watch what happens now as the state adopts the new common core in math and english. All secondary students (7th and 9th graders this year) are being grouped into two levels of math. My youngest was grouped into the "high" level and is bored silly. Before this year the 9th graders had nine different classes to pick from in math ability. Now ALL 9th graders choose between just two classes. The students who have spent years actually doing their homework and learning mathematics will continue to be held back by the kids who don't and won't do what is necessary to learn. Be it the kids fault or the parents, the teachers will continue to get the blame.

Teachers will always get the blame, but it's a systematic problem. While the article gave a nod to 19th century one-room schools, it didn't even begin to explain why they worked: High-achieving students worked with the teacher to help slower students, discipline was maintained with the help of the parents, students knew that what they learned in school was important, and children skipping school or loafing in their studies would face severe consequences from their parents. The curriculum focused on teaching children what they needed to know to function as adults, i.e. "the basics", and any expansion of that was taken care of on a one-on-one basis with the teacher. District supervisors maintained limited oversight, intervening only when a teacher requested help for a particular problem. My grandmother was, at 16, the youngest teacher in Bexar County, Texas, back in 1917-1919. She was successful in teaching 23 8-18 year olds. Can we let teachers do what they were trained to do, and put parents in charge of discipline? Can our principals and superintendents focus on supporting and enabling teachers to teach? Not in this day, I'm afraid.

My oldest just entered jr high, and I thought this was what all her tests were about last year? Placement tests.

"cosmic lights" brings up a good point about the math. I was shocked to learn that my 7th grade daughter was placed in an 8th grade honors math class! When I talked to the guidance counselor to see if that was an error, he explained about the new common core, which sounds pretty watered-down, and her test scores apparently place her in there. Hmmm, we'll see...it will be interesting to watch. Bless the teachers, who, in my opinion, seem to always get the short end of the stick!

cosmic lights, perhaps part of the problem with the 7th through 9th math is that 9th grade belongs in High school. If 9th graders were in high school they would be able to take a higher level of math, preparing them for college.

It makes it tough when I have to teach 3 different lessons in the same classroom at the same time. Try that with a room of 35 twelve year old kids.

Yeah I'm overpaid.

My thanks to all the teachers out there that genuinely want to teach my children! I can't say that I know the best formula for the classroom or even if one formula would work for every classroom, but I do agree that parental support at home makes a huge difference in the classroom.

It must be an overwhelming challenge to teach many students of differing abilities using the overly standardized curriculum it seems we have with the 'no child left behind'. My sister has taught for 42 years and hates that program because she feels all she does is teach little kids to take these specific tests. It seems gone are the days when you can teach children according to what you observe as their teacher and use the skills you studied in college and have gained over the years. Everything seems so formulated.

It makes sense to me when more advanced students can help teach those who are slower in their learning abilities rather than just sitting when they are finished.

My daughter subbed in Jr. High schools in Davis County and was frustrated with certain students in each class who had been allowed daily (with their regular teacher) to constantly interrupt class by swearing at teacher and creating an environment where others could not learn. Students thanked her for automatically sending disruptive kids to principal instead of allowing them to ruin class each day as was the norm there; unacceptable in my book.

Balanced,

You are right on the money. Parental support makes a HUGE difference. It doesn't even have to be a big deal. Just the fact that your child knows education is important and that he/she has parents that are there for them if they need help is a big factor in the success of a child.

I didn't mean for my above post to sound so negative. I really do love my job and the 12 years olds make me laugh every day. There are plenty of things I would change about how our schools are run but I can't think of anything I would rather do than work with our youth.

This teacher would like to thank all of the great parents we have in Utah. It makes my job a pleasure to do (most days!)

Utah is woefully underinvesting in education. We are duped by slighltly above the national average statistics for our schools. When adjusted for demographic differnces, Utah schools are actually doing WORSE than average.

Three key problems include:

1) We have WAY too many young, inexperienced teachers teaching WAY too large of classes.
2) Our high school language, math and science curriculums are not helping enough students become PROFICIENT and college ready in key subjects such as writing, English and Literature, foreign language, statistics, algebra, calculus, geometry, chemistry, physics and biology.
3) We accept sloppy work as normal and acceptable instead of holding our students to high standards.

We live in a knowledge economy folks. To compete and thrive, our students can no longer afford to float through mediocre schools and expect to have a reasonable shot at maintaining the lifestyle they are accustomed to. We have WAY too many multi-level marketers, real-estate wheeler dealers, salesmen and training/seminar lecturers. We need to turn out more graduates who are capable of creating real value through science, medicine, engineering, teachning and innovation.

Here's an idea, lets send some of our Utah legislators to classrooms for one week and see how they fair. Lets send a few teachers to the capital and see how they fair.

I think we all know which party would be pleading for their old jobs back.

Two points;

All should be taught at their own pace. That is my argument against age stratification in school. Instead, stratify by level of achievement in base curriculum. That way students gain success in areas that they naturally gravitate towards, and can get extra help when they are lagging in other areas. In addition, the desire to keep up with their friends will push them to apply themselves.

Why do we insist that children are taught as generalists, when we as adults are specialists. The whole system needs to be upended, and allow parents to choose a school and system that best works for their child. School vouchers, school choice. Our kids are not infrastructure, and should not be serviced by government contractors, which is essentially what most teachers are. Hooray for the good teachers who take the time to do it well, too bad for the kids who get the ones spending too much time leaning on their shovel, cause we are stuck with them.

Wonder if it will spread to Ogden City Schools? Or if my kid will be left behind again because his teachers are "too busy to help one student" and "have too much to do to contact parents".

Practically, you cannot teach multiple lessons to the same group of students. As a public school teacher with eight periods in a day, I was assigned to teacher seven periods. Within these seven periods, there were three distinctly different subjects in science for high school. The new administration wanted multiple lessons within the same periods. The new type of evaluators were teaching one period a day with the advanced placement students which numbered about five. During a previous summer school, I was assigned to teach first and second semester parts of one subject and then given a second subject to do likewise which meant four distinct preparations and then within that umbrella, there were multiple individualized lessons. Is this madness or what? This led to early retiremenmt.

Keep up the great work, Utah Teacher! I don't mind hearing a little venting. It helps me to better understand your side of the fence and how we (parents and teachers) can come together to raise well-educated, civil and moral citizens of this great nation. I just hope parents out there are more a part of the solution than the problem and that legislators don't sabatoge all of us for their gain.

The sad part....is that it is only going to get worse. When students are allowed to change classes because it is "too hard" (and we are talking core classes)....and they have been allowed to do this in the past, then we are looking at trouble. We are raising a generation of kids who for the most part have been prevented from struggling and overcoming. Yes, some classes are not easy. Learn to overcome. There are great teachers out there who want to help but when you have students who think they don't have to work that great teaching won't matter.

Quick thought while I'm on recess. I taught a split class (two grades at the same time in the same classroom. I had 25 students from fifth and sixth grade. I had an aid for half of the day, but she was not allowed to teach anything to the children. she could guide their practice, but the teaching, (rightfully so) was all up to me. I had reading levels in that class ranging from 2nd grade through 9th grade. Math ability levels were spread nearly as far as the reading. I would literally hop back and forth between fifth and sixth grade core teaching and guiding both through the day. I was worn out at night. I gave my all for those kids which was a heck of a lot more than others had given them. The reason for splits is that there is not the funding to make smaller class sizes so they make two half classes. I didn't receive extra money for the extra teaching, just a pat on the back. until Utah changes a lot in their attitude about education, problems will still exist. Class sizes for elementary should be no more than 25.

One major difference exists between the school in the 1880's and 2011. In 1880 the kids that did not want to be there were NOT IN SCHOOL.

It is remarkably easy to teach a diverse group of children when they all WANT to be there and know that if they fail to perform they WILL NOT be there much longer.