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Published: Saturday, Sept. 10 2011 2:29 p.m. MDT

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davedave
Sandy, UT

It will be interesting to see what happens to the church's standing on gays in the church. We accept all people in the church as long as they hold to our same standards, i.e. no premarital sex. With the advent of gay marriage being legal in some states like New York does the stance remain the same. Hence hypothetically speaking two gay men or women could legally get married never having sex before are they still considered in good standing with the church? The church may have to rethink how it states its stance on gays in the church.

guswetrust
Cebterville, Utah

As a mormon, but I accept anyone no matter race, religion, sex preference as long as they are good people. (which means they are not murderers, child sex predators, sells or does drugs.) But I admit, I am almost embarrassed to tell non members I am LDS because of all the FLDS contoversy, Warren Jeffs, etc. Because my family and friends in other states that are not members do not understand that we are different than FLDS. We don't have beds in our temples, yet we have temples. It is just hard to help them understand this.

A voice of Reason
Salt Lake City, UT

"Mormons don't see Jesus Christ for who Jesus Christ really is. That's the big issue. They see him as a prophet, not the only begotten Son of God."

I guess they don't know that the Roman Empire persecuted the persons we read of in the Bible, they hijacked Christianity, then held a meeting in Nicea to 'settle' the QUESTION of the trinity once and for all. Then Rome made this law and persecuted other CHRISTIANS believing in God the Father and His son, Jesus Christ.

-------

I have a question for these 'pretend Christians' who spend their time hating us, against what Jesus Christ actually taught (Perhaps they overlooked the bit about 'loving thy neighbor', or maybe they think that by hating us they actually love us... yeah, whatever).

How does a counsel of men decide whether God and Jesus Christ are separate beings? I guess we can vote on what color of eyes He has too, right?

All evangelicals who criticize us ought to tour Temple Square, see the Christus with holes in His hands from the nails, then actually ask US what we believe, rather than assume they know our thoughts better than we do.

Henry Drummond
San Jose, CA

I'm not LDS but I have watched this back and forth for years. I think the LDS people do the right thing when they simply say what they believe rather than worrying about the media. Eventually the press gets a better balance in their reporting. Could that be happening here?

A voice of Reason
Salt Lake City, UT

Henry,

I personally believe that the press in general is getting worse at accurately reporting what the LDS Church and its members believe. This is why I think it's important to praise when people get it right.

-

Correction on my previous comment. When I say 'Evangelicals' I do not mean all of them, only the ones who fight us for our beliefs, for beliefs in the Bible, and for the same things that even those like Paul died preaching.

Petra
Sanpete County, UT

Not too long ago, a DN editor posed a question about whether or not the future of journalism will be in writing stories with intentional bias. This is a very good example of what could also happen - that, where possible, journalists fact-check their source quotes and "facts" to remove potential bias born of falsehood. It takes time and is sometimes difficult to do (especially on deadline), but we would all be better served if we knew fact and if that fact was placed within a story (as in this story's examples), not as a later "fact-checker" story which many do not read.

While intentionally biased journalism might very well and accurately represent one side of a story (as long as we all understand it's written with intentional bias), fact-checking any and all stories and their sources would contribute immensely towards educating this country as to the actual facts surrounding bias.

Bill in Nebraska
Maryville, MO

To davedave: The stance I believe will not change. It has been the same stance from the foundation of the Church. All we have to do is to continue to gain a great understanding of, THE FAMILY, A PROCLAMATION TO THE WORLD. This came out in 1995 years before the so called gay movement took hold. The Church has stood tall in all states where the vote to amend state constitutions has been given to the voter. In each it has won with a 30-0 stand. Only in states where it has been done by the courts or legislature has it been given.

Don't expect this stand to change.

BostonTerry
Merrimack, NH

The LDS Church is to Protestants what Protestants were to the established Catholic Church during the reformation.

The established political and religious leaders of that day persecuted, ridiculed and minimalized reformation leaders like Martin Luther. They mocked him to be mentally ill. Mormons are experiencing a similar situation.

When a Protestant tells me today I'm not a Christian I correct them by saying "I am very difinatly a Christian. I'm just not Catholic or Protestant."

Utes Fan
Salt Lake City, UT

"the reporter quotes a South Carolina Republican leader, who said that "Mormons don't see Jesus Christ for who Jesus Christ really is. That's the big issue. They see him as a prophet"

The Republican leader doesn't know the facts.

From The Living Christ:
"He was the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament, the Messiah of the New. Under the direction of His Father, He was the creator of the earth. "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made" (John 1:3)."

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@A voice of reason
"How does a counsel of men decide whether God and Jesus Christ are separate beings? "

Because that is what they interpreted the scriptures to be suggesting. The LDS church views it differently. Both sides of the trinity doctrine issue believe that their view is what the Bible suggests to be the case.

@davedave
" With the advent of gay marriage being legal in some states like New York does the stance remain the same."

The church stance is "no sex before marriage" and since the church defines marriage as man-woman only, regardless of what state law is that does not affect the church stance. I do think we will see the church get way less active in Prop-8 type instances though but it's not going to allow gay marriage or same-sex... sex during my lifetime.

davedave
Sandy, UT

To Bill in Nebraska:

I agree with you. I guess my point is to clarify it's statement in that we expect all members to live up to the standards of the church. I guess my point is are they against the idea that having sex outside of the confines of marriage the sin or the homosexual act the sin. I am just saying that in their statement they are being a little ambiguous and that they should clarify to non-mormons that yes we except our gay brothers and sisters but that under no circumstances including under the confines of "marriage" is it allowable in our church. And the church has changed its stance before don't forget blacks receiving the preisthood and the disolussion of polygomy.

davedave
Sandy, UT

To atl134:

I lived in the South when African Americans were given to the priesthood and I can tell you many people felt the same way........"during my lifetime". I hope you are right but you never know.

Just Thinking Outloud..
Merrimack, NH

When a Protestant leader says the LDS Church is not following historical Christianity I have to agree. That was the reason for the restoration.

If historical Christianity is the standard by which we should believe then why are these folks not Catholics? When Protestants painfully broke away from the Catholic Church- the reformers made the choice not to follow historical Christianity.

eagle651
Chino Valley, AZ

To be a Mormon you need have broad shoulders. Critics of the Church are everywhere, some of their remarks are mild and not to hurtful because they don't know and others seem to written by Satan himself.
The Lord is watching over His Church and has given us the Iron rod for guidance and comfort.
Yes,"All things were made by Him" even Mormons, but the ones with hardened hearts and stiff necks will always feel threatened and throw their darts at us.
The quality of the Church will ways stand above the critics.
Never lose faith because He is with us always, after all it is His Church.

lds4gaymarriage
Salt Lake City, UT

Bill in Nebraska
"All we have to do is to continue to gain a great understanding of, THE FAMILY, A PROCLAMATION TO THE WORLD. This came out in 1995 years before the so called gay movement took hold. "

LDS4
The Proclamation came out in response to the gay marriage voter initiatives in Hawaii and Alaska that year. It was a combination "Call to Arms" against gay marriage as well as a political position paper. The only thing wrong with the proc is the last paragraph, a thinly veiled call for people to curb the rights of gays to marry. We know, though, that D&C 134:4 and 1 Cor. 10:29 both condemn using one's private moral beliefs as justification to condemn the rights and liberties of others. Gays in CA had the right to marry before Prop.8 passed. I SINCERELY beg for someone to explain how LDS and non-LDS Christian support of Prop.8 was not in violation of those verses.

Rikitikitavi
Cardston, Alberta

I recently had the very distinct honor of wearing the yellow t-shirt we all recognize:"Mormon helping hands". This is one way of showing the world (or at least those who will take notice)that in spite of perceived doctrinal difference or differing scriptural interpretations, actions must in the end speak louder than words. Seems to me in my own naive, simplistic mind that to live as Christ taught should trump any hot air that these evangelical folks spew forth that Mormons are not Christian. Sorta the old cliche "don't just talk the talk but truly walk the walk". In the city where I was able to spend two long days in volunteer service was a Church Humanitarian couple who said that after Katrina, there were as many as 3,000 volunteers "Mormon helping hands" whose recovery efforts they co-ordinated. It is truly sad when such "out of touch" folks continue their mindless, ill-informed rants. Yet the countless folks who were served truly know that us imperfect Latter-Day Saints are just trying to follow our Savior.

The Caravan Moves On
Enid, OK

Article quote: "At one point in the story, the reporter quotes a South Carolina Republican leader, who said that "Mormons don't see Jesus Christ for who Jesus Christ really is. That's the big issue. They see him as a prophet, not the only begotten Son of God."

___

Absolutely, POSITIVELY untrue.

Yes, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints absolutely DO see Jesus Christ as the Son of God.

We see Jesus as the Creator.

We see Jesus as the Great Mediator, the one and only promised Messiah, the Savior and Redeemer of the world, and as God's only Begotten Son.

If some South Carolina politician wants to believe something false about LDS doctrine, that's his choice.

But at least readers here will know the truth.

Hawkyo
SYRACUSE, UT

LDS4, I've said it before, you speak out against the church, and its leaders. Your views are that of someone who has been blinded by the great deceiver.
And seriously, Marriage is NOT a right, and you also forget where rights come from. They come from God, not the government!

Dan Maloy
Enid, OK

Homosexual activity is simply immoral. It is wrong, it is evil; always has been and always will be. Period.

Now, before any pro-homosexual readers freak out, notice I said homosexual "activity" is wrong. There is a difference between who one is and what one does. The LDS church has been exceptionally clear that if anyone struggles with homosexual urges and desires but does not act on them they are as worthy as the staunchest, sexually pure heterosexual person. The LDS member in San Francisco called to be a clerk must be in this latter category.

But to expect the LDS church to change it's position on homosexual activity, ie, "sexual relations with one of the same sex", so-called "marriage", etc, is unwise. Why? Because Jesus Christ alone is in charge of the LDS church and He will not, no matter what fuss pro-homosexuals stir up, change His mind.

Gladly, I rejoice in the fact that God is constant and refuses to be pushed around by anyone.

(Now, having said that, let's see if this gets posted. DesNews posting police don't seem to like the word "wrong" and "homosexuals" to appear in the same post.)

Curtis Hight
Juneau, AK

lds4gaymarriage,

The Proclamation was read publicly for the first time in September 1995. The voter initiatives in Alaska and Hawaii were voted on in November 1998. There were same-sex marriage matters prior to the Proclamation but the voter initiatives in Alaska and Hawaii came later.

D&C 134:4 and 1 Corinthians 10:29 are not intended to prevent a body politic from legislating morality. The question isn't whether or not we should legislate morality (because there isn't much, if anything else we legislate), the question is "what is moral?" And answers will rarely have consensus. In this democratic republic I support your freedom of speech to influence change in people's minds about what is moral even if I disagree with your beliefs about morality. (See Jarom 1:5 and Mosiah 29 for further commentary on morality, legislation and government.)

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