Readers' forum: Send more government money


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  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Sept. 12, 2011 7:05 p.m.

    Bingo, to this letter!

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Sept. 12, 2011 6:29 a.m.

    re: Irony Guy | 4:36 p.m. Sept. 11, 2011

    The problem in Texas is not a federal matter. It is not enumerated in the Constitution. Amendment 10 gives clear direction on what should be done. It should be left to the States and to the People.

    Those who demand that the Federal Government do something clearly violate the Constitution.

  • KM Cedar Hills, UT
    Sept. 11, 2011 8:58 p.m.

    joeblow - basics

    Should we spend more than we have?

    How did people survive before government reliance became the norm?

    And lastly, does your family not love you enough to care for you in your hour of need?

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Sept. 11, 2011 8:35 p.m.

    @ Joeblow Good points you make however, wouldn't you agree with the following?

    #1: If I send my kids to a private school, should you be forced pay for it? I would argue that our kids will get a better eduction at a private school and therefore who can rightfully deny them getting the best education possible? Futher, I would argue that given a tax credit for private schools, most parents would opt out of public schools. I know I would!

    #2: If I am lazy, irresponsible or abuse my health, (drugs alcohol, etc) why should you be forced to pay for my healthcare? Is that really compasionate or is it enabling?

    #3: It used to be that families cared for their parents who couldn't take care of themselves. Now we have a bankrupt and corrupt ponzi scheme called S.S. and Medicare which denys health care everyday to some people. Which system is really more compassionate?

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    Sept. 11, 2011 8:19 p.m.

    Mountainman 6:00 p.m.

    So I suppose by your logic we should stop giving tax money to the military and let them be "self-sufficient." After all, they've been the biggest government program in the history of the world.

    At least be consistent...

  • JoeBlow Miami Area, Fl
    Sept. 11, 2011 7:46 p.m.

    Well, lets take it down to the basics

    1) should only parents with children be forced to pay for schools?

    2) should we turn people away from hospitals who cannot pay?

    3) what do we do with the old people who have not saved enough money to live on?

    These are 3 SPECIFIC questions that should be able to be answered with SPECIFIC answers for those who believe in complete "self reliance".

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Sept. 11, 2011 6:00 p.m.

    If the government forces me to give to the "less fortunate", is that really charity? Or is it just another form of dictatorship? Shouldn't charity be voluntary and not forced?

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Sept. 11, 2011 5:28 p.m.

    @ Salwart Unfortunately, you missed the entire point. But some people find self reliance a difficult concept to grasp. Easier to believe the world owes you a living.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Sept. 11, 2011 4:36 p.m.

    I'll never understand your thinking, Mike Richards. In your world, the people of TX would be putting out empty coffee cans in the grocery stores and hope for some spare change out of the goodness of our individual hearts. The idea of government is to "promote the general welfare," i.e., to combine as a civilized people to help each other deal with risk. This can be done in a sensible, foresighted fashion--exactly as our nation's founders envisioned. Surely they didn't expect that when one part of the country was in trouble that the national gov't would sit smugly on its couch insisting "we have no jurisdiction. Sorry."

  • JoeBlow Miami Area, Fl
    Sept. 11, 2011 4:15 p.m.


    Maybe, before we send money, we should ask Michelle Bachmann if those fires were part of Gods wrath on Texas for some unnamed transgression.

    She seems to have insight into those kind of matters.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 11, 2011 4:13 p.m.

    Mike Richards | 3:16 p.m. Sept. 11, 2011
    South Jordan, Utah
    Hypocrites come in many forms.

    In times of crisis, it's easy to see where people would ask for help.

    The greater fault lies with those of us who could help, even a little, and instead sit back and mock their cries for help.

    Gov. Perry asked the wrong people for help. Now that we know of the desperate circumstances of the good people of Texas, what are WE going to do about it?


    Funny you should mention that.

    Utah recieves MORE $$$ for the Federal Government, than it ever pays into it.

    Utah Tea Partiers are every bit as must the hypocrites and the Texas Tea Partiers.

    BTW - what are YOU doing about it.
    All that talking, where the walking?

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Sept. 11, 2011 3:16 p.m.

    Hypocrites come in many forms. Gov. Perry needs to grow up. Those who think that Washington should wipe our noses need to grow up.

    We have a Constitution that limits what Washington CAN do. We must never ask for anything not delegated to the federal government, nor do they have the right to offer anything not delegated to them.

    In times of crisis, it's easy to see where people would ask for help. What's even more telling is that WE know of their crisis and sit smugly on our couches finding fault with them for being desperate. The greater fault lies with those of us who could help, even a little, and instead sit back and mock their cries for help.

    Gov. Perry asked the wrong people for help. Now that we know of the desperate circumstances of the good people of Texas, what are WE going to do about it?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 11, 2011 1:55 p.m.

    National security is one thing that conservatives think is a legitimate gov't expense and natural disasters are part of that. It's not hypocritical to ask for federal help... though it does make Gov. Perry look like an idiot for slashing the firefighting budget in his state and the state should've been contributing more.

  • JoeBlow Miami Area, Fl
    Sept. 11, 2011 1:13 p.m.

    "Did I get the logic of this argument right? "

    Yes, I believe that you pretty much got it right. And, as I said, I don't really blame Perry or Christie because they have people in need and the state cant help.

    But, help me square that with "I want to make the federal government as inconsequential in your lives as possible"

    When Perry cuts budgets and the state is unprepared to a crisis, I can assure you that they are happy for the Fed govt to step in.

    So, yes, he is a hypocrite.

  • Stalwart Sentinel San Jose, CA
    Sept. 11, 2011 12:50 p.m.

    To Mountanman - Translation: The Republican Party has the mindset of a six year old. Awesome, thank you for the breakdown.

  • KM Cedar Hills, UT
    Sept. 11, 2011 12:17 p.m.

    What David believes...The government has an unending amount of taxpayer money to redistribute where it sees fit (vote purchasing), that we are helpless without the federal government in our lives.

  • Hellooo Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 11, 2011 11:59 a.m.

    Love the rants against the tea party. It is great to bash grass roots people who are trying to get involved. Nice to see all the Progressive support here. And, please no one can ever say Mr. Bush was a conservative. He was a big government liberal, which is what the Bush family has always been. His father was the most liberal representative of the republican party and this is the reason he was selected by Mr. Reagan, a political pragmatist, to bind the party together so as to be united and win the Presidency.

  • liberal larry salt lake City, utah
    Sept. 11, 2011 11:30 a.m.

    Conservatives love to TALK about fiscal austerity, and responsibility, but when they get into power, (like the Bush years) they can spend money as well as any Democrat. They also show a perverse love of debt by not only increasing spending, but cutting taxes at the same time. There seems to a disconnect stemming from a case of "entitlement mentality", the idea that you deserve public services without adequately paying for them.

    In Mr Perry's case, he is in the paradoxical situation of hating government, while at the same time drawing most of his paychecks from the Airforce or from his work as a politician.

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    Sept. 11, 2011 11:05 a.m.

    Let me get this straight. If you are against the tax laws that require the people of your state to send so much money to the federal government and speak out against that but to no avail; then you turn around and demand that as long as we are sending all this money to Washington our state needs to receive its fair share back, then you are a hypocrite?

    Did I get the logic of this argument right?

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Sept. 11, 2011 11:01 a.m.

    Americanwithnohyphen - You missed the whole point of the letter. No one expects governor Perry to single handedly fight all the fires. The letter writer was simply delineating the hypocrisy of Governor Perry's philosophy that the federal government is always bad....until he needs them. What would be better is if we all stopped the hysteric rhetoric and acknowledged that we live in a big country and that while we love our freedoms and want to be protected from an overzealous government hand, there are, in fact, times when the government needs to lend a hand. It is the process whereby we can all participate in giving the helping hand to those in need by spending our tax dollars on that need. Yes, it would be best of we could just personally help the needy but sometimes we can't do that - logistics, cost etc. - so the government organizes the help that we can't organize and we get the privilege of helping, even though we haven't personally picked up a shovel or carried a sand bag.

    That's all the letter writer is suggesting - that Governor Perry acknowledge that sometimes that is the appropriate action and the government CAN help.

  • JoeBlow Miami Area, Fl
    Sept. 11, 2011 9:20 a.m.

    I do not fault Gov Perry for seeking assistance. I do fault him for his hypocrisy.

    And Chris Cristie was certainly quick to demand Federal Govt action.

    Yes, we need to curb government spending.

    But be sure to understand, spending cuts have consequences. There is usually a price to pay.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Sept. 11, 2011 7:06 a.m.

    Ok, here;s the difference! I recently asked my friend's little girl what she wanted to be when she grows up. She said she wanted to be President some day. Both of her parents,liberal Democrats, were standing there, so I asked her, "If you were President, what would be the first thing you would do?"
    She replied, "I'd give food and houses to all the homeless people." Her
    parents beamed with pride."Wow...what a worthy goal." I told her. "But you don't have to wait until you're President to do that. You can come over to my house and mow the lawn, pull weeds, and sweep my driveway, and I'll pay you $50. Then I'll take you over to the grocery store where the homeless guy hangs out, and you can give him the $50 to use toward food and a new house."
    She thought that over for a few seconds, then she looked me straight in the
    eye and asked, "Why doesn't the homeless guy come over and do the work, and
    you can just pay him the $50?"
    I said, "Welcome to the Republican Party."

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Sept. 11, 2011 1:35 a.m.

    Great letter.

    Another suggestion I'd make, is that the Tea Party people are against all government programs, handouts, and other entitlements... Except for the ones they want. Then they're perfectly fine, necessary, and legally constitutional.

    Just ask Bachmann, who doesn't need SS since she's independently wealthy.

    Yet, when it comes to farm subsidies, which greatly benefit her, they're completely necessary and constitutional.

    Hilarious the double standard by their ilk.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Sept. 11, 2011 12:52 a.m.

    So much for pretentious t-party rhetoric. Now Perry the hater of the American government whines that that same government isn't helping his burning state to his satisfaction . . . only a year after he himself cut Texas' emergency services budget by 75%! This is called hypocrisy squared. If TX did secede from the Union, Perry would be first in line for some foreign aid from the good ol' USA.