Comments about ‘The folks who brought you this weekend’

Jim, you use to fight for American jobs. One big difference between the 50's, 60's and 70's, and the past twenty five years was the AFL-CIO's fight against illegal immigration. During those decades labor fought business over hiring illegal aliens.

When you stopped fighting, American labor was invaded. If the American labor movement wants to grow and build support and respect again, you need to start standing up for the American laborer.

Thank you DN for having the courage to print this. I want to see the reaction of the Tea Party, especially FreedomWorks.

Americanwithnohypen, I am continually amazed at this argument. Yes, labor unions are political and thank goodness. Why is it OK for corporations to spend millions of dollars on lobbying, entertaining Congress and elected leaders, and influencing legislation but it is not OK for the common laborer to have a voice?

Do you realize you argue against the best interest of all Americans? Let me give you a great example: The American Legislative Exchange Council-many Utah legislators belong-funded by the Koch Brothers and major corporations. They develop legislation, invite legislators to a weekend of lavish entertaining then have them push their legilsation in their states. Utah ALEC legislation-grading schools, elimination of collective bargaining, card check etc.

What do you think will happen when unions are eliminated? We are not the ones sending jobs overseas-the corporations are.

Wake up and learn that anti-union folks are getting most Americans to vote against their own best interests!

I agree with "squirt." Unions are what made America great. In the past decades as they have declined, our manufacturing jobs have gone overseas, the gap in income between the worker and the CEO has increased to pre-depression levels, and the average wage of middle class Americans has gone down.

People seem to forget that unions are comprised of workers who spend their hard earned money to come together collectively to stand up for their rights. The union doesn't control the workers, the workers control the union. For every dollar they spend in the political arena, they are outspent 10 to 1 by corporations.

On this Labor Day, I want to celebrate the workers and unions of this country. Corporations used them to become world entities but have since discarded them to exploit workers in Asia and hence weaken our country.

Shhhhh.... When the Tea Party finds out that Labor Day was a national holiday created to celebrate labor unions and the American laborer, the next bill in Congress will be to eliminate the holiday altogether.

Why is he allowed to go into the schools and spread propaganda? The reason why things cost more for businesses and consumers is because of the labor movement. Unions have too much power and are destroying our economy.

I worry that I am starting to agree with a labor leader... it almost makes me choke on my libertarian cheerios.

My one huge remaining problem with unions is their leadership - teachers unions being a prime example. From the outside all I see is an organization that is only interested in the status quo and self-perpetuation. I do not see any principled negotiation, nor earnest effort to work toward larger solutions demanded by the marketplace. All I hear (I recognize this is only *my* perception - yet my perception is my reality) is "give us more money." I'm out of money to give.

I want to take unions seriously - they have done serious work in the past. But until I hear them acknowledge the new reality of the need for true innovation (with the attendant, even inherent, risks of disruptive innovation) I will not listen to their message. I have to do more with less to be competitive -- teachers should be no different.

Unions need to quit demonizing those who disagree with them. Show you are principled participants in a larger solution (look at how well the unions have worked with Ford - well done!), rather than self-interested, reactionary obstructionists.

I guess it is good to have a lesson in history about Labor Day. It's also good to have lessons about the Civil War. But these days unions aren't the answer. In a post 9/11 world the old tactics of hollering and protecting crummy workers and threatening strikes are no longer relevent or acceptable. If you're not willing to work for the prevailing wage in a bad economy, just let someone else have the job and go file for unemplyment benefits.

Everyonwe needs to remember that the union's point of view is to "increase egg production one must strangle the hen."

There was a day when unions were sorely needed; that day has passed. We now have laws that children can't work 70 hours a week in coal mines. Job accomplished unions; now release your full-nelson hold on owners and tax payers and quit breaking your arm patting yourself on the back. (You remind me of either environmentalists or communists, who both also use the same tactics.)

Welcomethemail, I hope to add some truth to your perception. Teachers are the latest scapegoat in the corporate propoganda. Let's look at Utah. UEA talks about being last in per pupil spending, largest class sizes, fewer resources. That is why you always hear about $$. Teacher in our state talk about the difficulty they have with 45 children in a classroom;that means more money is needed.

Now charter school and choice proponents do the same thing-take scarce $ away from our strapped schools. They scream money and no one thinks anything about it. They do NOT outperform traditional schools but we keep pouring money into their coffers and they continue to demonize our teachers and the public system.

I would like you to be specific as to the demonization you refer to. Vouchers?? The public spoke on this issue not just UEA-Utahns for Public Schools, Citizens for a Better Utah, etc. etc. UEA should be advocating for students and teachers. That is what they do. Class size is an issue which does not affect charters-why not apply the same rules to all our schools-low class size, curricular freedoms? The teacher's unions are NOT the problem!

The problem is that the pendulum rarely stops in the middle. When Unions were all powerful, they pursued policies that led to the decimation of our manufacturing base. If unions-or some type of organization that performs the same function-go away completely, then you will see a continued erosion of pay and benefits and working conditions for all but the top layers of management.
I used to work for an employer who paid peanuts but had great benefits. Why? Because they were terrified that their mechanics would organize, so the mechanics had great pay, and the benefit package by statute has to apply to the whole company. If the concern went away that mechanics could unionize, I doubt the great benefit package would survive the month.
So we need a continuing tension and the at least somewhat realistic threat of unionization to keep corporations honest. But please don't let them get back to the level of power they held 45-50 years ago. Our economy couldn't take another hit like that again.

Why do you think all the manufacturing jobs are now in Mexico or China? The unions! Why do you think that a librarian in Diego can retire on $200,000+ pension and full medical for life? The union! Why do you think a checker in Albertson's makes $35/hour plus medical and then threatens to strike if asked to contribute to the medical and pension plans? The union! Here in San Diego they showed City union worker bawling because they were asked to take a 3% pay cut because of the recession when I'd taken a 50% cut and was happy to have a job.

The unions have given us nothing.

@ squirt

The old song about Utah being last in per-pupil-spending has been sung for at least 50 years. Get a new argument; that one is worn out.

FYI- Utah spends 100% of personal state income tax collections and 60% of personal property tax collections on education. It is NOT underfunded from a taxation standpoint. If you think money is the answer, look at Washington DC and their educational system.

The Davis School District raised property taxes by about 10% last year and again by about 10% this year. (You'd think they were a health insurance company!) The average worker has had to suffer in this economy, but not the education community.

Why is UEA so against educational reform? Why can't teachers ever say "thanks" instead of "we demand more?" Why do they insist their job is the only one that is "stressful?"

Public employee unions (municipal and state government employees) are the same way---they think the public can meet their demands by just having taxes/fees raised.

I have advice for both governmental employees and teachers---don't kill the goose that lays the golden egg or you'll be sorry....it is possible to do that, too!

I've decided just to put the blame for everything squarely on the consumer. It doesn't matter whether we're talking groceries, a new car, or the plumber's services. If the lousy consumer would just agree to pay twice as much for everything and quit demanding a new cell phone every year, we could all buy half as much, spend more for it, and we'd all be happy, right? Then we could all afford to pay everyone what they want, right?

Let's have a conversation.

Toosmartforyou, it may be an old argument but nothing is changing and teachers will continue to shout from the rooftops when it comes to over-crowded classrooms and lack of resources.

What makes you believe UEA is against reform? They served on the USOE committee to develop and adopt rigorous teaching standards and evaluation. Teachers will always stand against reform which is unproven and does harm to children-NCLB's focus on tests not children-one example, charter schools which do no better than traditional schools but who limit class size to 20 and have currcular freedom-apparently this model is good for charter school children but not ALL children-that is a travesty. Poverty in DC is rampant and truly devastates their system. We have tons of kids in Utah AND we need to educate them.

Corporations send the jobs overseas because they have a labor forces below the poverty line in other countries.

Buzzards makes some great points but I still can't wrap my head around CEO's making an average of $43,000 per hour. Do any of you make that much?? Why do you argue in favor of CEO's against middle class Americans?

This just might be the best Desnews article I have ever read. Congratulations, DNews! I am proud!

Im sure the unemployed celebrated to knowing that the job market will get better under the Obama administration. oh wait hes to busy running for re-election flying and driving all over the country after he tells the american they need to cut back on their expenses and traveling Im sure he expects us to cut back on groceries to so we can support his re-eletion campaign

No, squirt, businesses are usually reactionary, while trying to plan ahead by reading trends. When output can't match demand, they hire. When demand goes down, they fire.

A music-CD costs less now than 20 years ago. Why? Because consumers demand more for less. Businesses moved production overseas so YOU can "keep up with the Joneses."

You want 99cent/lb Roma tomatoes? No problem. Almost all US growers moved to Mexico years ago (where they can only lease land - illegal for aliens to own land in Mexico - huh). If you're willing to pay your local farmer $1.89/pound for them, do it. I wish more people would. Or grown your own.

It's disgusting one must SEARCH to find US-made goods now. I couldn't tell you the hundreds of times I've put something down because it said "Made in China." If more of us would do it, you'd see the trend reverse, and companies would start moving jobs back on-shore. But then again, "globalists" on both sides of the aisle WANT things like this.

The average American consumer has EXACTLY what they demanded. It's YOUR fault as much as labor or management. We're ALL to blame.

@ squirt

It's interesting that you excuse Washington DC's poor performance due to "poverty" but at the same time think that Utah taxpayer's aren't paying their fare share. I have some news for you: the economy stinks and many, many folks have suffered. School Districts think they can just raise taxes and everything will be fine. In Utah, wages are somewhat lower than the states of New York, Florida and Texas. We use 100% of personal income tax revenue towards education, higher than any of those other states.

The reason Utah does so well is it has discovered how to involve parents in education.

It would be nice if just ONCE the education community thanked the taxpayers for their contributions instead of hollering about wages, class sizes, hot buildings, stressful working conditions,retirement, health benefits,...ad infinitum.

And maybe you'd get a break if when you had a truth-in-taxation hearing the board actually didn't stack the presentation with faculty and staff that are given 45 minutes to explain (complain) while each tax paying speaker is given 90 seconds, and the outcome wasn't a fore-drawn conclusion.

Vote the School Board OUT----Which one...? Any and all of them!

Good grief.

One poster above actually had the gall to say that "unions are what made America great."

Give me a break.

Was it "unions" that left Europe in search for a better life with nothing more than hope and a willingness to work for a better life?

Was it "unions" that stood up to England in the Revolutionary War?

Was it "unions" that preserved our fledgling republic in the War of 1812?

Was it "unions" in the Whitehouse and in the battle fields that kept our nation together in the Civil War?

Was it "unions" that were the brains and the driving force behind the creativity that instigated the Industrial Revolution?

Was it "unions" that led millions of Americans to help repel injustice and maintain freedom in countries around the world during WW I, WWII and other conflicts?

Is it "unions" that inspire Americans to be the most loyal, most generous, most entrepreneurial and most adventerous and hearty people on the face of the entire planet?

Or was all this made possible by INDIVIDUALS who were inspired to believe that they themselves, as individuals, could make a positive difference in this world?

Unions? Puh-leeeease.....

To Brain:
To some extent Unions *have* helped make America great. I can only reiterate the points of the article.
Unions helped bring about the end of child labor. Unionized garment workers improved the civil rights for women. Unions (especially mine and farm workers) helped improve the safety in the workplace. Without the very real sacrifices (in terms of life and liberty) of union workers in the US, none of these things would have happened on their own - there was no profit incentive.

To the extent unions brought balance to American capitalism, they did help the American worker be the most productive on the planet, even today.

But those dangers, to some extent, no longer exist. This is why I love the Ford/UAW model. Management and the union both changed their adversarial paradigm and worked together to achieve the best possible outcome for everyone. Ford was the only major US automaker who did not get a bailout from the US taxpayer. Ford shareholders, Ford employees and Ford customers have all won.

This is a perfect example of how the new union should work in today's economy, and I don't understand why it isn't spreading.