"D&C ch. 20 says the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God. That's
monotheism"Wow! I do not think I have ever read a more
laughable statement on theology in my life.There is nowhere to go
from here in this discussion. Thousands of years of the greatest thinking on the
planet have just been dismissed out of hand as so much "semantics".Stop the presses!
Dotp: the "other" Jesus . The birth of the Savior was as natural as
are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook
of flesh and blood was begotten of His Father, as we are of our fathers. (JoD
8:115). Christians believe the birth of Jesus was a unique miracle by the
Holy Spirit/Ghost). ..., she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit
.Mt 1:18. Protevangelium, And I will put enmity between thee and the
woman, and between thy seed and HER seed (sperma); it shall bruise thy head, and
thou shalt bruise his heel" (Genesis 3:15). But when the time had fully
come, God sent his Son, Born of a Woman,.. (Gal 4:4) Maryquilter. God is
without body parts. J S, Lectures on Faith, Q. What is the Father? A. He
is a personage of glory and of power. (5:2.). Brigham Y (JOD v 1 p 49-50):
"The Lord fills the immensity of space. What saith the Psalmist[139:7-10]?
Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
God[is]spirit(pneuma,) John 4:24
Sharrona, D&C ch. 20 says the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God.
That's monotheism. You can argue that you understand the oneness of the persons
of the Godhead in a way that emphasizes their unity over their distinct
personhood, but how is that not semantics?Maryquilter -- You're
mixing up the Nicean Creed with the Westminster Confession. The Nicean doesn't
say anything about "without body, parts or passions."Here
we go again, with both Mormons and other Christians misunderstanding each
others' actual teaching.
Sharrona: If according to the Methodist doctrine you quoted, " Jesus is the
only begotten Son of the Father" (which the LDS church agrees with), how
could Jesus have been a son, begotten of himself? How would Jesus be a son of
himself, the Father?? According to the Nicean Creed, God is not a physical being
and is without body, parts, or passion; i.e. some ethereal blob out there; yet
He created man in His own likeness and His own image? We are not without body,
parts, or passions. We are like Jesus and He told us that when we see Him we
see the Father. The whole time I grew up in the Baptist church I could never
make any sense of the Trilogy. Hundreds of years after Christ was resurrected a
bunch of people got together and made up the Nicean Creed. Who says they had it
right after 300 years of apostacy and twisted truths after the original apostles
died? I vote for what the Savior himself taught when He was upon the earth.
The thing is that when we follow the counsel of our prophets, seers and
revelators during conference or at other times it helps to bring us closer to
our Savior, Jesus Christ. For a time as many in Christianity believe, the
heavens were closed to revelation, visions and etc. Today, that is not true.
The heavens have been opened and today we have living prophets on the earth who
are able to give us the word directly from our Savior himself. As some one once
said, most creeds try to bring God and the Son (Jesus Christ) to the people
where as the LDS Church tries to bring the people to Christ and the Father. I
love my Savior. I have a testimony of his divine mission and his life here on
earth. I know that through him and by him is the only way that I can return to
him and the Father. There was no other person on this earth that lived or died
that could do that for us. Prophets allow the Father and the Son to speak to
the world. As Amos says, God will reveal his word only through his prophets.
atl134, My Methodist pastor back in Maryland said Mormons were Christian.Methodist statement of faith. We believe in Jesus Christ, truly God and
truly man(hypostatic union), in whom the divine and human natures are perfectly
and inseparably united. He is the eternal Word made flesh, the Only begotten
Son of the Father, born of the Virgin Mary by the power of the Holy Spirit. [uncreated creator of all else,ASEITY] By contrast, the Jesus of the LDS
tradition is not co-eternal with the Father and "of one substance with the
Father." Mormonism, The Father and the Son are not united in substance,
but only in love, will, focus, and effort. In conclusion the LDS belief cannot
be said to constitute a monotheistic theology; it more closely resembles a
tritheistic or possibly a polytheistic faith. Therefore outside the PALE
@dotp:Exactly right, I could not agree with you more . I don't
worship the LDS church, or Joseph Smith, or President Monson. I worship the
Lord Jesus Christ who died and atoned for my sins. I try to listen to the Holy
Spirit and follow his inspiration in living my life each day. Thanks for your
@dotp,Your comment supporting your choice to follow LDS was
refreshing to me. I see so many talking about all their prophets and other
'weird' things they follow but to see one just talk about their love for Jesus
Christ and how they don't care "WHAT church someone belongs to as long as
they believe in God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son, and the Holy Ghost"
is quite refreshing.You, my friend, make LDS an okay religion to me.
It's the prophets who have steered me away over the years (especially past
I have to laugh at some of the things people say about "Mormons". As
I understand it, we aren't Christians because we don't believe in the same Jesus
Christ who is the literal Son of God and the Savior of the world and of all
mankind as the other denominations do. I guess I missed when the
"other" Jesus Christ was born. We supposedly don't believe in the
same God who is our Heavenly Father as the other denominations do. Maybe we
read a different Holy Bible than other churches do although WE read the King
James version of the Holy Bible. Or is it because we read ALL of God's word and
not just the portions that please us? It doesn't really matter to me WHAT
church someone belongs to as long as they believe in God the Father, Jesus
Christ His Son, and the Holy Ghost. All are at different places on the road to
Heaven. Some are farther along than others. That's part of God's Plan. At
least that's part of the Plan as I understand it. I am LDS and I LOVE my Lord
and Savior Jesus Christ. Anything else is no one's business.
@sharronaMy Methodist pastor back in Maryland said Mormons were
Christian and would not run into any problems as far as trying to get into
heaven is concerned due to being Mormon.
In our opinion Americans shot themselves in the foot when Mitt Romney did not
become president in the last election. We hope a wiser and more prudent
electorate will vote for him this coming election.
Many comments above are inappropriate. One can not judge another as being
Christian or not. If one professes belief in Christ and tries to act
accordingly, that is Christian. Attacking the LDS church as a cult or as
non-Christian because it does not follow doctrines espoused by certain groups is
a form of religious bigotry. Virtually anyone who belongs to an organized
religion sincerely believes that his/her religion is correct, and deos not
reject candidates of other religions - unless that religion is LDS (Mormon).
That is a clear manifestation of religious bigotry.
@sharrona: Let's see, we believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son,
Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. We believe we can be saved only through
the atonement of Christ. We believe first in faith in Jesus Christ, repentance,
baptism by immersion for the remission of sins, and the laying on of hands for
the gift of the Holy Ghost. We believe in being honest, true, chaste,
benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we
follow the admonition of Paul--We believe all things, we hope all things, we
have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is
anything virtuous, praiseworthy, or of good report we seek after these
things.If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck ... It also
sounds like someone I would trust whether or not YOU call them
"Christian". There are plenty who call themselves Christians and do
not follow the precepts above. I'll let God be the judge of that.
@davemnycI respectfully must advise you that increasingly large numbers of
Catholics AND Evangelicals are seeing beyond the bigoted doctrinal differences
to which you refer. Are we not taught to judge folks by their fruit(how they
live and make Christ's teachings part of their lives). Increasingly you are in
the minority as more and more honest in heart true Christians see others for how
they emulate the teachings of our Lord, Jesus-Christ.
@NorCalCougar,"The other Christian denominations are mostly
afraid that if their flocks learn the truth about the restored Gospel of Jesus
Christ, they will lose their livlihood"They keep denying my
comments so I'll try this a little differently. 1. LDS would fear
the same thing. Religion's want to be the only true religion and don't want to
lose anyone. 2. Quite arrogant to state that if other
denominations members learn about the LDS gospel they'll leave their
denomination since yours is the only truth.3. Bunch of things I
wish I could say but this will get denied so I'll leave it be.
@FDRfanTells me everything. Folks I know who know Harry Reid refuse to
vote for him any longer. In fact Sen. Reid has lost the support of the HUGE
majority of folks who are of the same religion.
@NorCalCougar,"Please pray about this. And the next time the
missionaries come to your door, invite them in and listen to what they have to
say."I listened to them and discussed a lot of things and asked
a lot of questions. I was told to seek the truth. I did. And I have no more
questions for them ... everytime I asked questions I didn't receive real answers
like they either didn't know about certain things or were covering them up ...
Probably a combination of both. I seeked the truth, I found it, I stopped LDS.
I'm trying hard to find anything that Sen.H.Reid has to offer anybody. Seems
like he has been on-side with BO from the get-go and look where that has got us.
(Got Pelosi relieved of her duties in the House). Sen. Reid also was given a
net loss of seven seats in the Senate by the voters. The trend is likely to
continue giving Reid the prestigous position of Senate Minority leader.
TheProudDuck. "Every religious scholar outside of Utah will profess that
the LDS Church is a cult that does not subscribe to Christian beliefs. Saying
you believe in Jesus Christ does not make you a Christian church." Every
religious scholar? Tall order you just stacked up for yourself, old bean.
Catholics answers considers Mormonism a Non-Christians religion. also
Bible believing Protestant and Orthodox churches consider Mormonism a cult. The
PALE of Christianity excludes Mormonism as Christian.The Christian
Scientist Church are not all scientists and they deny the resurrection of Christ
they are not considered in the PALE of Christianity. A name can be
mis-leading.Jesus says If you do not know who I(ego)am(eimi)you will
die in your sins.(John 8:24 Greek N.T.)
@davemnycPerhaps you should begin to think for yourself instead of letting
your paid clergyman think for you. You see, that's really the bottom line. The
other Christian denominations are mostly afraid that if their flocks learn the
truth about the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, they will lose their livlihood.
So, if you turly read and know the Bible, The Church and it's teachings should
be a familiar voice to you. Please pray about this. And the next time the
missionaries come to your door, invite them in and listen to what they have to
say. Most of all, recognize the Spirit of the Lord that they bring.
davemnyc:There are not very many Christians left in this world.
Although there are several churches that claim ownership of that label, you
can't find many Christians among their collective flock. There is far too much
of this pointed finger of scorn going on. Get past that. You see, being
Christian is not a title, it is a lifestyle. You may remember that Christ
criticized the Jews for making a similar mistake when they thought they were
chosen merely because of a name. In reality, it is a way of living.So I am OK if you want the label, but please walk the walk. You may yet be
able to learn a thing or two from your Mormon neighbors. Don't be afraid to
watch them, to learn from them. Most of them are more concerned with helping
others. They read the Bible, just like you, but they are alive in Christ. Give
them a break.In fact, since you obviously know little about them,
read the Book of Mormon sometime. It will change your life.May God
"Saying you believe in Jesus Christ does not make you a Christian
church."---davemnyc Perhaps you could enlighten us as to
what makes a christian church then? If you submit your definition, perhaps I
would have a better understanding of why you say what you do. Until then, why
should anyone accept your authority on the matter?
"Every religious scholar outside of Utah will profess that the LDS Church
is a cult that does not subscribe to Christian beliefs. Saying you believe in
Jesus Christ does not make you a Christian church."*Every*
religious scholar? Tall order you just stacked up for yourself, old bean. "This country will not elect a non-Christian president."It elected John and John Quincy Adams. And Thomas Jefferson. Crack a
book sometime, willya?
@davemnyc, please provide your address and phone number. We will be happy to
send two bright young men to teach you the gospel.
Bereal | 4:32 p.m. Aug. 29, 2011MADERA, CAAnother long time favorite
of mine that I would add to the list is Senator Orrin Hatch from Utah. I always
enjoy listening to him when he is interviewed by the mediaOrin Hatch
said that Clarence Thomas was one of the most moral people that he had the
privilege of knowing. But in a book authored by the person who
"Trashed" Anita Hill says he discovered that Clarence Thomas did
indeed frequent a porno store and checked out the videos that Anita Hill claimed
he told her about. We need Mormon political figures to be more cynical than
@ davemnyc 12:55pm.You have got to be joking ... Mormons aren't
Christians? That silly argument is getting so old. Seriously, come up with
Another long time favorite of mine that I would add to the list is Senator Orrin
Hatch from Utah. I always enjoy listening to him when he is interviewed by the
trots,get over it. it doesn't take much to scare you
The "epochal" moment for Mormons was when the gospel of Jesus Christ
was restored to the earth.
A shame he asserts that Mormonism started as a dissident group rather than being
viewed as that."Mormonism may have begun as a dissident
@DeltaFoxtrot...You need to keep of the Left-wing web sites. They
will make things up as they go to suit their own needs. Their "facts"
are so far out there that they would qualify as science fiction.@
Tom in CA. You got that right! It is just that some people cannot see truth when
it is right in front of them. It takes some people along time to see that what
they are doing is just plain wrong. Others will keep doing it no matter what,
just to save face in their minds.
@truthsandwich: Misconceptions? I think most of the public has a relatively
neutral view of Mormons, the "live and let live" sort of attitude.
Yeah, they're a little crazy and extreme in their beliefs... but so are Southern
Baptists. I just hope none of them start digging deeper into LDS history and
traditions. I've read some things that are downright scary.
FDRFan:Too bad Reid couldn't help Obama in the same way.
Huntsman and Romney belong to a non-Christian religion. Every religious
scholar outside of Utah will profess that the LDS Church is a cult that does not
subscribe to Christian beliefs. Saying you believe in Jesus Christ does not
make you a Christian church. This country will not elect a non-Christian
president. When are people in Utah going to wake up to this fact. It's not
going to happen. America's Catholics and the Southern Evangelicals will not
allow a non-Christian to be elected President of the United States.
"Mormonism, it turns out, is a block on which the American idea has stood,
even if many of us are only seeing this for the first time."It
is unfortunate that there are still many who have yet to see this. I've read
that 1 in 5 Americans won't vote for a Mormon, regardless of his or her
character/leadership/political stance.As the the church's exposure
continues to increase, I'm hopeful that many of the classic perpetuated
misconceptions about Mormons will fade away.
"The Church's mission is to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, not to elect
politicians," the policy states. "The Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints is neutral in matters of party politics. This applies in all
of the many nations in which it is established."Thank goodness
someone puts this in the media. I did not see any wink winks in this statement.
Hopefully the calls for Senator Reids excommunication will cease. If Mitt Romney
gets elected I hope Senator Reid teaches his Sunday school class or better yet
assigned as his home teacher. He could help Mitt Romney become a better