Hey Dirk,You missed a Pac school. What about our series with
Where are all the utes? Oh, they are to busy posting on byu articles.
A steady diet of PAC opponents. Better stock up on antacid tablets and pepto.
As a rational college football fan, I will give props to the Utes - They deserve
to be in the PAC-12. Their play over the past 8 years definitely contributed to
their invitation into the PAC-12.However, rationality must also
extend to looking at the big picture, which includes the comparative strength of
the PAC-10. Here's how the PAC-10 has fared since the BCS' inception:BCS Championships by conference:SEC-------7Big12-----2ACC,
Big10, Big East--1PAC10 ----0 (USC forced to vacate)In other
words, except for a USC program which was essentially operating as a
professional franchise, the PAC-10 has won exactly as many BCS championships as
Utah, TCU, and Boise State.I think Utah may have a decent chance of
competing in this conference.
Combined 2010 records of this season's opponents:Utah - 73-76 (zero
opponents with 10+ win seasons)BYU - 72-79 (four opponents with 10+
win seasons)Utah's PAC 12 OpponentsUSC 8-5 (hamstrung
with scholy reductions)Wash 7-6Ariz 6-6Cal 5-7OSU 5-7Ariz 7-6UCLA 4-8WSU 2-10Colo 5-7Only one of
Utah's PAC 12 opponents had a better record than BYU(7-6), and that team, USC,
has no incentive to excel this season.So much for that
"quality" PAC 12 schedule.
neimfrence,Are you suggesting that a conference's strength is best
judged by the strongest team it presents each year?If you took
Alabama and put them in the WAC, would you then say the WAC is a powerful
conference?Jeff Sagarin is predicting that the Pac-12 will be second
only to the SEC in the upcoming football season. He (his computer model)
believes that 8 of the 12 teams will be in top 35 for the nation.According to Sagarin, over the past 10 years, the Pac-10 has been the fourth
toughest conference three times, third best three times, second best three
times, and the best once.Phil Steele says the Pac-10 was #4 in 2010,
and will be #3 in 2011.The SEC has been the best conference over the
last decade, but to suggest that the Pac-12 has been and will be weak just
because they have only won one national championship (didn't USC only forfeit
one of their two consecutive championships?) is myopic.
Coverage is so uneven and unfair!! No where can I find the article
"Cougars prepare for diet of quality WAC opponents".
Utah'95"didn't USC only forfeit one of their two consecutive
championships?"It's easy to understand why Utah fans are always
confused on the whole BCS/national championship thing.They're
constantly beating the BCS drum, but when it comes to citing their final
rankings, they completely ignore the official BCS poll, the Coaches Poll, and
refer only to the AP Poll, which is completly separate from the BCS.USC did forfeit its only BCS championship, but won back-to-back AP national
championships.Despite the misguided opinions of some jealous Utah
fans, the AP national champion is SELECTED in exactly the same way today as it
was in 1984, by a majority of AP voters choosing the team they consider to be
deserving of being awarded the national championship for that particular year.
btw,excluding USC, BYU has won more Concensus National Championships
(#1 in both the AP and Coaches Polls) than the rest of the PAC 12 COMBINED!
LonestarRunner,Thank you for making some valid points, but my point
remains this - you can't judge a conference's strength solely based on it's #1
challenging schedule will cause good teams to lose some of their games. The
win-loss record is important, but who they beat, and even who they lose to, also
matters.Only BYU homers would suggest that Utah's 2011 schedule is
weak. If you can't take my word for it because I'm a Utah fan, just spend 10
minutes searching for unbiased opinions of Utah's and BYU's schedule.
Moderate I already gave you the composite of the schedules for Utah
and BYU based on last year's result.Utah - 73-76 (zero opponents
with 10+ win seasons)BYU - 72-79 (four opponents with 10+ win
Cannot compare PAC 12 to independence because good teams beat up on eac other. A
7-5 record for Utah is much stronger than a 9-3 BYU schedule. Where
would BYU end up with Utah's schedule?
I, for one, will lament the end of the Utes series with New Mexico. It was
always a boring game...except those years where New Mexico embarrassed Utah.
That was fun.
Are we seriously debating strength of schedules? Wow, and Y fans accuse Ute
fans of trolling?
SwoooopByu's home schedule this year is : UCFUtah State = 3rd worst
WAC team last yearSan Jose State = Record last year was 1-11 (WAC)Idaho State = Record last year was 1-10 (Big Sky)Idaho = Record last
year was 6-7 (WAC)San Jose State = 1-12 (WAC) How sad
Nice to see jealous little brother Y fans out once again nipping at the Utes
heal. It makes me laugh every time as I know what drives their action; it's the
opposite of confidence.
LonestarRunner:"It's easy to understand why Utah fans are always
confused on the whole BCS/national championship thing."The
cougars can be just as misguided and inconsistent on the boards when it comes to
AP and coaches/BCS.Daily they talk of Utah's final AP finishes
compared to BYU's (because of selection bias---Utah was ranked in the coaches
last year, but not the AP). But then they always quote Utah's "#4"
ranking in 2008---compared to #2 in the AP. It's convienient for them to choose
which poll and when because they want to shed the program to be less than what
it is.Kinda like your post regarding the PAC-12.And some
cougar fans don't realize how the NCAA works, either:The NCAA does not
reward a national championship in Division 1-A (FBS) football. The winner of the
AFCA Coaches' Trophy, is the winner of the BCS "national championship"
game, and therefore ranked #1 in the coaches poll. The trophy does not state
"NCAA" champions as other sports do. Therefore, Div-1A remains a
"mythologic national championship". The BCS, like the AP, is voted
upon, and therefore is subject to many interpretations.We get it,
I just thought it would be fun to look at National Championships of the
opponents the Utes will be facing. I didn't know Montana State had done it
twice, but they have.Montana 2 (non-Div I NCs)USC 11BYU 1Wash. 2AZ St. 2Pitt 9Cal 5Ore
St. 0AZ 0UCLA 1Wa St. 0CO 1They have a pretty good bevy of opponents. It will be fun seeing how they
fare. I hope they do well.
MiPI think you're confused. When BYU fans cite
cumulative Top 25 poll finishes for BYU, they don't have to specify which poll,
because when BYU has been ranked, the Cougars have ALWAYS been ranked in BOTH
polls.When BYU won the national championship, they were ranked #1 in
BOTH polls.The Cougars were #7 in both polls in 1983 leading up to
their NC.And in 1996, BYU finished #5 in both polls after winning
the Cotton Bowl.Far different from Utah which finished #2/#4 in
2008, #4/#5 in 2004, and unranked/#23 in 2010.It's funny how Utah
fans don't have any problem tearing down BCS teams like Oklahoma, UCLA, Oregon,
and Oregon State, when BYU has played and beaten those teams, but now claim that
you can't use the mediocre 2010 records of Utah's 2011 opponents to judge how
difficult Utah's schedule will be, but you can use the mediocre 2010 records of
BYU's 2011 opponents to judge the strength of BYU 2011 schedule.Try
showing just a smidgeon of consistency Utah fans.The NCAA recognized
BOTH the AP championship of USC AND the BCS championship of LSU in 2003; how is
BYU has the toughest schedule of any team in America. Once we go undefeated,
Jake will haven proven all of his comments true.
A 7-5 ute will be in the vegas bowl or poin.....bowl nothing changes except your
byu116970 | 6:50 p.m. Aug. 28, 2011 Tooele, Utah You're right.
Much better to play a WAC schedule and go to the Armed Services Bowl.LOL
swoop,***It's funny how Utah fans don't have any problem tearing
down BCS teams like Oklahoma, UCLA, Oregon, and Oregon State, when BYU has
played and beaten those teams***We aren't saying that any of those
teams are bad. We are just stating that Oklahoma wasn't a top 25 team, except in
pre-season polls which don't matter. Was the Oklahoma win big? Sure, but it
wasn't like beating a top 10 Alabama or TCU team. Make sense?