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Utah Utes football notebook: Jordan Wynn returns after fighting the flu

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  • Jenny83 OGDEN, UT
    Aug. 21, 2011 5:11 p.m.

    Byu's home schedule this year is : UCF
    Utah State = 3rd worst WAC team last year
    San Jose State = Record last year was 1-11 (WAC)
    Idaho State = Record last year was 1-10 (Big Sky)
    Idaho = Record last year was 6-7 (WAC)
    San Jose State = 1-12 (WAC)

    pathetic

  • Captain Sweatpants Hampstead, NC
    Aug. 21, 2011 2:40 p.m.

    I heard Jake once threw the ball over a mountain....

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    Aug. 21, 2011 3:21 a.m.

    @Jute19
    "@BigCougar. Do you often recommend your own comment?"

    I just did it now but it looks like 2 other people beat me to the punch. Thanks for the idea!

    @don'tMUSSwithUtah
    "Ha ha. Yeah, I'm glad you have so much faith in Jake. Hopefully he isn't too hard by his sophomore slump. You might want to check out some of his recent stats at practice though. I heard he hasn't been too godly lately. Hopefully that doesn't hurt his Heisman campaign."

    Jake went 5 of 5 and a TD pass in his only series today. Also the other day he had a 60 yd bomb to DiLuigi. Sounds like he's doing just fine. His 75 yd TD bomb to Apo last week went 65 yds in the air.

    How many times would Wynn have to throw the ball to get it that far?

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    Aug. 21, 2011 1:56 a.m.

    Pac12Utes | 9:08 a.m. Aug. 20, 2011
    Up On The Hill, UT

    @jute19

    "it wont improve until the Dnews wakes up and actually improves the system. These pages are filled with cougar trolls who love to try and stir the pot. The one that makes me laugh the most is Veritas."

    ===
    So, what you are looking for, my friend, is truth and free speech to be suspended so you can post your silly comments without no one to put you in check when you, and other Utah Fans post silly comments?

    Sweet.

    How about just keeping up and posting on topic?

  • nosaerfoecioveht NSL, UT
    Aug. 20, 2011 11:14 p.m.

    @Trublue

    "Sorry, I'm not buying the argument that the numbers are simply the result of the competition."

    Well trublue, that's because you're a Utah hater, which you would have to be to argue that numbers put up against New Mexico's defense compare to numbers put up against TCU's.

    U haters are great at selective statistics.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    Aug. 20, 2011 5:24 p.m.

    MiP

    Actual stats for the final 6 games for Heaps and Wynn

    Heaps..109/172, 1340 yds, 63.4%, 14 TDs, 3 ints, 152.19 rating
    Wynn...112/189, 1372 yds, 59.3%, 8 TDs, 5 ints, 128.91 rating

    Sorry, I'm not buying the argument that the numbers are simply the result of the competition.

    As a Freshman,
    Wynn's best game came against California(8-5) 173.2 rating;
    one of his worst games came against SDSU(4-8) 120.29 rating.
    How do you explain that if the numbers are simply competition based?

    During 2010, Wynn threw as many interceptions(3) against Wyoming(3-9), as Heaps threw against his last six opponents, COMBINED!

    6 of Heaps' 13 games have been interception free (46%).

    Only 5 of Wynn's 16 games have been interception free (31%).

    Heaps had almost as many TD passes (14) in his final 6 games, as Wynn had (17) during his entire Sophomore season.

    Wynn's QB ratings against BYU: 86.91 and 103.39
    Heaps' QB rating against Utah: 114.74

    Heaps did better against Utah's supposedly superior defense than Wynn did against BYU's supposedly inferior defense.

    btw, Heaps was nursing cracked/dislocated ribs.

  • RevK Glenwood, UT
    Aug. 20, 2011 4:55 p.m.

    Wynn will be 250 yards passing vs Montana St. 2 TD 1-int.
    300 yards vs USC 1 TD, 3 ints.
    (if he survives USC)
    280 yards vs BYU 2-ints. broken collarbone, concussion, hernia, hemroid, splattered blader, upset stomach, and the squirts.

  • Black&Blue Hillsboro, Oregon
    Aug. 20, 2011 3:43 p.m.

    KH,

    I think it is also important to look at the players the two QB's had around them. I mean mechanics, accuracy, and poise can only go so far if your receivers are not catching the ball, or if your line is not providing protection, or if you dont have a running game.

    In 2010 Utah had 10 returning starters on offense, including the entire O-line, 2 RB's, 2 WR's, and 1 TE. Wynn had the last 6 games of his Freshman year and an entire off-season to mesh with this unit before beginning his Sophmore campaign, and he had a wealth of talent and experience around him.

    In 2010 BYU had 6 returning starters. 0 RB's, 0 TE's, 2 WR's, 4 O-lineman. Jake Heaps was splitting reps with Riley Nelson until the 4th game into the season.
    You cant accurately compare these 2 QBs based on last season. As Wynn was an experienced Sophmore and Heaps a true Freshman.
    But as far as the head to head contest. Utah got the 1pt W, but Heaps outplayed Wynn and nearly pulled off the upset.

  • MiP Iowa City, IA
    Aug. 20, 2011 3:40 p.m.

    CordonBleu, I am unsure why you ommitted the three touchdowns that Wynn had vs Colorado State. CSU would have been the first of Wynn's last 6 games of 2010. You must have known this, as your other stats, including INTs, appear correct.

    In his last 6 games, Wynn had 8 TDs 5 INTs.

    Also ommitted from your argument is the opponent strength. All but one of Wynn's last six opponents finished with winning records and bowl victories. Only one of Heaps last 6 opponents did that, and it was a loss.

    Your use of the "final game" stats is valid, but since you're trying to establish a trend, lets look at the penultimate game for each of Wynn and Heaps:

    Wynn---on the road to SDSU (which finished 9-4):
    21/33 362yds 63.6% 2 TDs 0 INTs 175.8 rating.

    Heaps--on the road to "struggling" Utah (which finished 10-3):
    22/37 228yds 59.5% 1 TD 1 INT 114.7 rating.

    Unlike some U fans, I realize Heaps is a better talent than Wynn. But before we claim that Wynn's wheels have fallen off, lets ensure we haven't fallen victim to the fallacy of incomplete comparison.

  • KH Holladay, UT
    Aug. 20, 2011 3:00 p.m.

    Jake Locker COULD be a great quarterback. It remains to be seen. Being a first round draft pick doesn't make someone a great quarterback. At Washington he was a good quarterback and a great athlete. But to say he was a great quarterback is a stretch. Lets see what he does in the pros. I liked watching him because he was so athletic and I hope he turns into a great quarterback, but we'll see.

  • KH Holladay, UT
    Aug. 20, 2011 2:43 p.m.

    I stand corrected. There is one QB that was great that didn't win many games. Thanks.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 20, 2011 2:42 p.m.

    Jake Locker is another example.

    Despite only having a 7-6 record, including a loss to Heaps in Jake's first game at BYU, and these mediocre stats his Senior season:

    184/332, 55.4%, 2,265 yards, 17 TDs, 9 int, 124.2 rating

    Jake was a first round NFL draft pick (8th overall)

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 20, 2011 2:28 p.m.

    KH

    Archie Manning was the player I immediately thought of:

    Manning was the starting quarterback at Ole Miss for three years. In the first national prime time broadcast of a college football game (1969), Manning threw for 436 yards and three touchdowns, also rushing for 104 yards, in a 33-32 LOSS to Alabama. That 540-yard performance is still tied for the SEC record for most total yards in a game.

    Despite Manning's considerable talent, the rest of the team was not at his level, and the Rebels only had a record of 15-7 in his last two years. In his college career, he threw for 4,753 yards and 56 touchdowns and ran for 823.5 yards.

    In 1969, Manning was Mississippi Sportsman of the Year and recipient of the Nashville Banner Trophy as Most Valuable Player in the Southeastern Conference. He was fourth in the Heisman Trophy voting in 1969 and third in 1970. Manning was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame in 1989.

    Manning's legacy is honored to this day on the campus of Ole Miss where the speed limit is eighteen miles per hour in honor of Manning's jersey number.

  • ClassyUte SOUTH JORDAN, UT
    Aug. 20, 2011 2:19 p.m.

    KH-

    No offense, but Archie Manning for the Saints.

    I think that Heaps is a talented QB with great fundamentals that are better than Jordan's. You can definitely tell that Wynn works closely with Brian Johnson, because he has kind of inherited his "Game Manager" persona. While he might not have all the weapons in his arsenal that Jake might have, Jordan can still be a great QB as long as learns how to play mistake-free and let the defense win games for him. It worked for Brian Johnson, and i personally believe that Jordan has even more talent than him.

  • KH Holladay, UT
    Aug. 20, 2011 1:35 p.m.

    Uteanymous,

    I challenge you to name one great quarterback who never was a winner. If you can, I will admit that I'm wrong about how I measure a quarterback's success.

    Also, I didn't say that other stats are not important to measuring a qb. I only said that those stats don't matter if the qb doesn't win.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 20, 2011 12:53 p.m.

    KH

    "I believe the best measure of a quarterback is wins vs. losses."

    Then how do you explain great QBs who play on lousy teams?

    If you're relying strictly on stats and wins as the only measure of how good Heaps and Wynn are, then you're not nearly the football "expert" you purport to be.

    Try observing footwork, reads, mechanics, throwing accuracy (not just whether the pass was completed, but how close it was to being on target), throwing motion, quick release, velocity, distance, check downs, and interceptions.

    Heaps is so much better than Wynn it's not even debateable, except by biased fans who obviously don't understand what it really takes to be a great quarterback.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Aug. 20, 2011 11:56 a.m.

    I'm sure glad Jordan's 'shoulder' flu has passed.

    Pray tell, pebbles, who's whining on this story? I see nothing but U fans all worried and imploding over the latest Wynn news and O'line problems.

    14 days and it starts. Definitely a short time for an injured, insecure QB to get his act together and for an O'line to come together. Practice is not as 'rosey' as some had hoped.

  • KH Holladay, UT
    Aug. 20, 2011 11:26 a.m.

    "There's no question that Heaps is and will be much better quarterback than Wynn. Anybody who believes otherwise is either a Utah homer, doesn't understand the game of football, or hasn't been paying attention."

    SportsFan, I do know football. I've watched and played it my entire life. I believe the best measure of a quarterback is wins vs. losses. Other stats are important too, such as passing yards, td passes, etc. But those stats are meaningless unless they produce a WIN. Winning is the number 1 criteria to be a good quarterback. So to say that Heaps is and will be a much better quarterback than Wynn and anyone who believes otherwise doesn't understand football is foolish.

    Why is it foolish? Because in the one game Heaps and Wynn played against each other, Wynn's team won and Heaps' team lost. Who knows what the future holds between these two quarterbacks, but to say Heaps is the better quarterback when his team went 7-6 last year while Wynn's went 10-3 and won in the head-to-head matchup is ridiculous.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    Aug. 20, 2011 11:05 a.m.

    KH

    Jake's numbers probably would have been a little lower if Jake had played the same schedule as Wynn to finish the season. On the other hand, I believe if Jake had been named the starter after spring ball of his Freshman season, had been given starter's rep in fall camp, had BYU's focus been on one offense, and if Anae had had the confidence to take the training wheels off of Heaps and let him audible from a run to a pass, Jake would have had huge success against the schedule Wynn faced in his first 8 games.

    btw, Wynn didn't play against Boise State, so that game is irrelevant as far as Wynn is concerned.

    There's no question that Heaps is and will be much better quarterback than Wynn. Anybody who believes otherwise is either a Utah homer, doesn't understand the game of football, or hasn't been paying attention.

    You're welcome to believe otherwise, but that's not going to change reality.

  • KH Holladay, UT
    Aug. 20, 2011 10:28 a.m.

    SportsFan,

    That's great. But you missed my point. Please answer this question honestly. If byu had played TCU and Boise State at the end of the season, do you think Heaps' stats would have been the same as when he played against Utep and New Mexico?

    Please answer it honestly and you will see my point. My point is that it is innaccurate to compare Wynn's last 6 games to Heaps' last 6 games.

    Do you agree?

    I'm not bashing on Heaps. I'm only bashing on the byu poster that so ignorantly posted that Heaps is a better qb because his last 6 games of the season showed better numbers than Wynn's last 6 games of the season.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    Aug. 20, 2011 10:18 a.m.

    KH

    Competition is only part of the equation.

    Heaps started the season behind Nelson, where Jake was not only splitting time with Nelson, but he was running an entirely different offense than Riley. Heaps was also surrounded by a completely new set of skill position players, most of whom were true Freshmen and Sophomores.

    Riley is a lefty and throws a soft pass. Heaps is a righty and throws a bullet.

    Heaps dramatic improvement the 2nd half of the season was more attributable to Heaps and his receivers having more time to practice together, the receivers learning to catch Jake's bullets, and Jake and his receivers getting their timing and reads in sync.

    Jake is picking up right where he left off last season. He has experienced receivers and running backs, and an OL that has been ranked as the 10th best in the country.

    Wynn, on the other hand, is coming off major shoulder surgery from which he obviously hasn't fully recovered. Plus, he has a completely new set of skill position players who have had limited time to practice with Wynn, and new offense, and he has an OL that is iffy at best.

  • KH Holladay, UT
    Aug. 20, 2011 9:41 a.m.

    CordonBleu,

    Why don't you look at the last 6 games byu played vs. the last 6 games Utah played. There is a huge difference in competition. While byu played 5 of the worst teams in college football to end its season, Utah played TCU, @ Notre Dame, and Boise State, two of which finished the season top 10 in the nation.

    Be honest with me, do you think that had anything to do with why Heaps' numbers looked better than Wynn's at the end of the season? I think so.

    There goes another byu fan using selective stats again.

  • Pac12Utes Up on the Hill, UT
    Aug. 20, 2011 9:08 a.m.

    @jute19

    it wont improve until the Dnews wakes up and actually improves the system. These pages are filled with cougar trolls who love to try and stir the pot. The one that makes me laugh the most is Veritas. The guy is a total hypocrite. He always bags on Ute trolls, and then does the same thing.

    Wake up Dnews! Time to fix your comment boards!

  • CordonBleu Park City, UT
    Aug. 20, 2011 9:05 a.m.

    Abusive ad hominem: usually involves insulting or belittling one's opponent in order to attack his claim or invalidate his argument, but can also involve pointing out factual but apparent character flaws or actions that are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions.

    Wynn may have had one good game against California as a Freshman and he may have had some good games to start last season, but he ended 2010 struggling mightily and he hasn't done anything in fall camp to indicate that he's improved since the end of last season.

    Heaps, on the other hand, finished 2010 strong, and has looked very good in spring and fall camps.

    Final six games 2010

    Heaps 109/172, 1,340 yards, 63.4%, 14 TDs, 3 ints, 152.19 rating, 5-1, 171.69 rating in his final game

    Wynn 89/160, 1,051 yards, 55.6%, 5 TDs, 5 ints, 114.87 rating, 4-2, 103.39 rating in his final game

  • Jute19 Poop, UT
    Aug. 20, 2011 8:19 a.m.

    It's ridiculous that we as Ute fans even give these so called cougar fans the time of day. I am just as guilty. I say if we just ignore their desperate attempts to throw stones that the plague will go away and we can resume discussing the article rather than my dad can beat up your dad type of banter. Let's get ready for the season. Let's hope what Whit said in his statement about Wynns shoulder is true as well as the news about Brenner and Heimuli coming back on Monday. That would be huge. Go Utes!

  • CG Orem, UT
    Aug. 20, 2011 8:19 a.m.

    Uteology

    Nice try, but Wynn had nothing to do with the key plays in Utah's win -- the lucky bounce on the punt, the blown fumble call, and, more important, the blocked FG.

    Just as for most of spring and fall camp, Wynn was a spectator.

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    Aug. 20, 2011 4:41 a.m.

    BYU fans,

    The "girl in the picture" played only 5 minutes of good football, with an injured throwing shoulder, to take down your "reloaded" team last year. This year he might just need 6 minutes.

    Wait for it....

    Go Utes!!

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    Aug. 19, 2011 10:20 p.m.

    Rock Of The Marne | 8:18 p.m. Aug. 19, 2011
    Phoenix, AZ

    "Once again, the whiney Y fans are out like mosquitoes in the Bayou. You guys are hoot..."
    ===

    Hoot?

    Gotta love it.

    No sir, no one questions whether Wynn can put up numbers.

    It's good to see the kid back in practice. But after listening to Kyle's explanation about chronic soreness, I just hope the kid has it in him to make it through the season.
    ............

    byronbca | 2:22 p.m. Aug. 19, 2011
    Salt Lake City, UT

    "Even if Wynn is still missing reps next week, it still wont be panic button time, but that's when I'm going to START to worry."
    ===

    Kyles a good coach. Holding him out of reps in a new offense is something we'll just need to trust his judgement on. Some kids can pull it off. I just hope it's not more than chronic soreness now.

    ...................

    Why would anyone care about someone's elses hair issues? No need to get petty. It's been said. Let it go.

  • Rock Of The Marne Phoenix, AZ
    Aug. 19, 2011 8:18 p.m.

    Once again, the whiney Y fans are out like mosquitoes in the Bayou. You guys are hoot with especially the comment about "taking Utah apart in Game 3." That hasnt happened in over 20 years and that was when Utah was bad; on the other hand Utah has taken BYU apart 2 times in the last 7 years so I can see why you would want revenge; too bad it isn't going to happen as Utah's D is stud and won't let that happen. What Y reality challenged Y fans forget is the Wynn when he was healthy at times could lay one on the other team. Case in point, Iowa State last year, Utah scored 68 points on the Cyclones who later that season went to Austin and beat Texas. Also look what Wynn did to CAL in a bowl game. Last but not least, Wynn while injured and stinking it up something fierce against good teams still beat a Heaps led Cougar team.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    Aug. 19, 2011 7:17 p.m.

    DontMUSSwUtah

    "You might want to check out some of his recent stats at practice though."

    Just did; Heaps was 6/7 for 100 yards, including a 60-yard bomb to J.J today.

    Utah fans can only dream that Wynn was having that kind of success.

    After Saturday's scrimmage, Bronco will spend the next two weeks installing the game plan for Ole Miss.

    Whit will still be nursing Wynn through practices and hoping that his sore shoulder will last through training camp, let alone the season.

  • simply me SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Aug. 19, 2011 6:51 p.m.

    The girl in the picture is former cheerleader.

  • Harold Doppler LOS ANGELES, CA
    Aug. 19, 2011 6:25 p.m.

    Anyone else think he looks like a woman in this pic??

  • DontMUSSwUtah SOUTH JORDAN, UT
    Aug. 19, 2011 5:48 p.m.

    Big Coug--

    Ha ha. Yeah, I'm glad you have so much faith in Jake. Hopefully he isn't too hard by his sophomore slump. You might want to check out some of his recent stats at practice though. I heard he hasn't been too godly lately. Hopefully that doesn't hurt his Heisman campaign.

  • Pagosa Kid SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Aug. 19, 2011 5:36 p.m.

    Wait that was Jordan Wynn - honestly I thought it was a photo of a girly Ute soccer or volleyball player. Ute fans you've got to be worried if he's your QB, your leader that is going to take you into battle in the mighty PAC 12. REALLY I feel sorry for you. The Cougs will literally take Utah apart in game 3. Let the fun begin!

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 19, 2011 5:23 p.m.

    It really doesn't matter why Wynn is missing practice, the problem is when Wynn is missing practice, his receivers are also missing time to practice with Wynn.

    Chow's offense relies on precise time and being on the same page with reads. Unfortunately for Utah, there's no way to fine tune that without practice.

    13 days?

    Hardly.

    The Utes have about 6 full practices and a couple of scrimmages left to get all of the kinks worked out before Montana State and most of that time will be spent putting in a game plan for the Bobcats.

    It's almost gametime and from the looks of things, the Utes aren't even close to ready.

  • che loco Springville, UT
    Aug. 19, 2011 5:21 p.m.

    Geez, does Wynn look like Joe Dirt or what?

  • Jute19 Poop, UT
    Aug. 19, 2011 5:12 p.m.

    @BigCougar. Do you often recommend your own comment?

  • RevK Glenwood, UT
    Aug. 19, 2011 5:07 p.m.

    One thing that Wynn can look forward too this season. He will get his teeth knocked strait!!!

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    Aug. 19, 2011 4:51 p.m.

    ooohhhhhhhhhh....so it's the "flu". I heard the reason he wasn't practicing was because he was wearing his church pants and he would be in trouble with his Mom if he got them dirty.

    @papasmurf
    "If I had the flu for 2 days, slept for 36 hours over the last 2 days, and felt a little sick still, I would be rusty too. Anyone would. Even St Jake. I think that it is a good thing that he got some rest, and let his arm rest. We know what we have with Wynn, and what he will give us."

    The problem is, you just don't know from game to game WHEN he will give it to you. And puhhhh-leeeeez, a fine-tuned, hale and hearty QB like Jake wouldn't be rusty after 2 days off. It was several months between spring practice and fall practice and Jake stepped in and performed like there'd been no break at all.

    Utah's fortunes are resting on the rickety shoulder of Jordan Wynn and we all know what he will give you this year, a last place finish in the Pac 12.

  • Keisels Beard Overton, NV
    Aug. 19, 2011 3:24 p.m.

    In that photo he looks like a girl. Seriously, I was reading another article and just saw his head on the bottom of the page. I thought it was going to be a link to a story about Women's Soccer.

  • Tom in CA Vallejo, CA
    Aug. 19, 2011 2:55 p.m.

    In that photo he looks confused.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Aug. 19, 2011 2:28 p.m.

    Bummer that we're losing Jamal Smith. Hopefully we'll be able to use his newly vacated scholarship to sign a top Offensive Lineman. We'll need one.

  • byronbca Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 19, 2011 2:22 p.m.

    I've been saying since the beginning of camp that Wynn's throw count wasn't that big of a deal, but if he is still on a 70 rep throw count next week and he is missing considerable reps with the ones, then that is when it starts to becomes a real issue.

    USC is still 3 weeks away and that's enough time for the offense to develop continuity and rhythm, but I think the clock starts ticking for real next week and they will need Wynn to be healthy.

    Even if Wynn is still missing reps next week, it still wont be panic button time, but that's when I'm going to START to worry.

  • Papa Smurf UTE Herriman, UT
    Aug. 19, 2011 2:09 p.m.

    If I had the flu for 2 days, slept for 36 hours over the last 2 days, and felt a little sick still, I would be rusty too. Anyone would. Even St Jake. I think that it is a good thing that he got some rest, and let his arm rest. We know what we have with Wynn, and what he will give us. If healthy, he will be fine. He has gone over Chow's offense now on film, and studing it for about 8 months. He still has 13 days and the Montana St game to figure it out, and get the rust off. Even the scrimmage against our own D wont tell us all that much tomorrow when Wynn plays. Our D is better than most Pac 12 defenses, and he will only be about 36 hours removed from having the flu. Let's wait till the USC game, then see how Wynn plays.