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Comments about ‘FAIR: Mormon immigration policy considered at conference’

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Published: Sunday, Aug. 14 2011 10:13 p.m. MDT

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Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

RichardB,

Just as a point of clarification, Mexico does not have the world's 12th best economy. Using per capita GDP estimates from the CIA World Factbook - the US is #11 at $47,200 while Mexico is #85 at $13,900. Most Central and South American Countries rank below Mexico (and illegal immigration does not just stem from Mexico).

If you do not wish to sustain the prophet or other leaders over this, that is your right. But I lament your choice. I do not think the Church's stance ignores the problem rather it tries to inject a moral imperative into a political issue.

Last year I had the privilege of attending the Saints Unified Voices concert (with Gladys Knight). I came away with the very strong impression that the Church is the Lord's and that he and only he gets the right to say who should be invited in. I don't ever want to be in the position of preventing someone from receiving the gospel who the Lord has determined should receive it.

Millsap fan
Taylorsville, UT

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints always has and will obey, honor, and sustain the laws of the land. But I'm glad that the church has made it's intentions clear. The whole subject of FAIR is about love and respect. Try being in the shoes of some of these immigrants. I regret admitting that I used to be the typical anti-immigration, zenephobic until I went on a mission to South Africa and saw that the same thing happening in the US happened there but with people from Zimbabwe (a country terrorized by it's evil dictator) and I realized that most Zimbabweans just like Mexicans or other Latino's just want to have a better life and they are willing to work hard to do that. I have worked with many and they are good people. Though I don't believe in illegal immigration, it's a tough situation and we shouldn't be so quick to judge them. Try smiling and saying OLA! :)

SLars
Provo, UT

I have family members in other countries and have seen the plight of people there. There are poor in every part of the globe. But Love and respect is a two way street, following the law shows a love of your fellow man, and respect for the country. Why do so many have a problem with asking people to wait their turn? Some countries have short lines, some are long, but this country can only accept so many each year. It's only fair when people stand in line and take their turn.

Are Gods laws for everyone, or just a few? I can't see all the calls for compassion for those here illegally, while they ignore others hurt by their actions. This to me is not the way of God. Jesus told us to forgive, but the person breaking the rules should not continue doing it. Allow them to go home and come back legally.

I question the Church ignoring their members who hire people illegally. That confuses me.

JBrady
Murray, Ut

@wildcat
Children brought here have a program to help them get right. Between 18 and 18.5 they can return home and come back legally on a student visa or residency. They are moved to the front of the line.

People here illegally cannot legally serve in the military. And paying taxes does not excuse criminals from paying for their crimes.

@Twin Lights
GDP shows the income of a nation, GDP per capita shows what the person produces, not what they earn. You need to search GDP of countries to show the countries worth. The three ranking standards list Mexico at 13 or 14. US is one or two.

Gabe801
South Jordan, Utah

It says right in the Book of Mormon and the Bible in general to obey the laws of the lands. For the church to stand up for them is hypocritical. Obviously this is a tough subject and we should feel compassion for illegal immigrants. But the truth is with them here our American Jobs are being taken away, why should it be our American citizens struggling to survive? The Govermnent needs to resolve this issue quick.

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

JBrady,

GDP shows the income of a nation. GDP per capita does not actually show either what a person produces or what they earn. If it measured productivity, then the Qataris would be about 3.8 times more productive than we are in the US. Per Capita GDP simply helps look at the gross income (GDP) of a country vs. its population and is an indicator (though not a perfect one) of the general standard of living.

GDP vs. Per Capita GDP is sort of like the difference between how much a single household earns (GDP) versus how many people make up that household and the income per person (Per Capita GDP). You and I may have the same income and live in the same community. If you have no kids and I have seven, our standard of living (absent any other factors) is quite different.

SLars
Provo, UT

@ Twin Lights

A quick check of your point shows you as incorrect. Gross domestic product refers to the market value of all final goods and services produced in a country in a given period. This is the measure that is used to determine a nations wealth, and Mexico is one of the wealthiest, highly producing countries in the world.

GDP per capita shows the gross domestic product of countries per capita, i.e, the value of all final goods and services produced within a country in a given year, divided by the average population for the same year.

It is not a measure of how wealthy a country is. It takes all that is produced, and divides it by the population. It is a measure of productivity per person, not income, or value of a nations wealth.

Mexico is a rich country, with food programs to feed the poor.

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

SLars

This is my last post.

If we use GDP vs. Per Capita GDP to measure the relative strength of an economy (that is, how its populace is faring economically versus those of other countries) we get very odd results.

Again using the CIA World Factbrook and excluding the European Union (which is, of course, not a country) the US is #1 and Mexico is #11 just below France and Italy and right above South Korea, Spain, and Canada. Does anyone honestly believe that the average Mexican lives about the same as residents of France, Italy, South Korea, Spain, and Canada? Of course not.

The same is holds true for China (#2) versus the US. Does anyone think that the average Chinese citizen lives about as well as the average US citizen? I doubt it.

The issue is not simply the size of an economy but also the countrys population. Only considering both data points can give us a (relatively) accurate picture.

The argument that Mexico is the 11th largest economy simply addresses the wrong issue. The issue is how the average Mexican is faring and he or she is not in 11th position in the world.

MTaylor
PROVO, UT

We are suppose to question.
I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. --Brigham Young, "Eternal Punishment," Journal of Discourses,

Twin lights, what you are looking for is the standard of living index, or Human Development Index. Mexico is ranked as a "very high human development country". In the top 25% of all countries. 75% of all countries in the world are worse off than them. With it's strong economy it could do much better, if the people stayed home and fought for their rights, instead of coming here and demanding citizenship.

chans
WEST VALLEY CITY, UT

Does this mean we can choose the laws we want to live. I would like to get SS numbers for my two dogs and have them as dependents. Its identity thieft but that is what an illegal has to do to work in the US. I speak spanish because of a mission and work in a trade made up of illegals. They do take jobs and the food off of Americans table. The problems is in Mexico and the solution is there. The Church should try to change things there.

MTaylor
PROVO, UT

Back in November the Church supported the Utah Compact. "Immigration is a federal policy issue between the U.S. government and other countriesnot Utah and other countries."

But along comes HB116 and they quickly change to "The federal government's obligation to secure its borders." and let Utah run it's own immigration system and make policy with other countries?

confused?

Like it or not, the only way to be fair is to force people to right the wrong that they may have done. It's their responsibility to do this, not society. People cannot right their wrong by having the laws changed. When we are told to stop sinning, and sin no more, do we ask that the sin be changed?

The only way for everyone to be treated fairly is for us to force them to go home and come back legally. However there is a roadblock, a 10 year block on citizenship and visas for being here past one year illegally. We need to give them a 90 day window to return home, without this punishment.

They pay for their wrong, people in line are served, and Americans can return to their jobs. It's not evil, it's fair.

friedeggonAZstreets
Glendale, AZ

This world is upside down now. It seems that in order to have any rights now you have to be a criminal. I know plenty of people who are illegal that get government assistance and plenty of Americans in need who can't. It's disgusting.

Illegal is illegal. I don't get how people can say it's not right. The US made these laws and other countries have border laws too. Why is America always getting a bad name for upholding its laws?

Oh, and I'm not a racist. I'm brown and proud of it. My parents came here on green cards and became naturalized Americans. If my parent's could do it the right way; then others can too. And don't say...it's too expensive. My parents lived check to check and some would consider our family poor by the standards of wealth. They saved their money and living within their means.

snowman
Provo, UT

tom2: The declaration was written so this country could be free. Those illegals have no rights here

snowman
Provo, UT

RRB: No one is restricted from visiting temple square. They are only removed if they are causing problems. Thousands if not millions of people from all over the world visit temple square a day.

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