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Comments about ‘FAIR: Mormon immigration policy considered at conference’

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Published: Sunday, Aug. 14 2011 10:13 p.m. MDT

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DCMaughan
Grantsville, Utah

DrGroovey:
Loving ones neighbor need not include condoning their illegal behavior. The 12th Article of Faith and love thy neighbor as thyself do not countermand one another.

patrick campbell
Salt Lake City, UT

Given the resounding pro-12th AoF I'm reading about here in the comments, what are we supposed to do about the 10th AoF? Can they both exist? I'm asking here, not preaching...

DCMaughan
Grantsville, Utah

DrGroovey:
Loving ones neighbor need not include condoning their illegal behavior. The 12th Article of Faith and love thy neighbor as thyself do not countermand one another.

DCMaughan
Grantsville, Utah

Carminaburana:
Perhaps they should be judging; judging themselves and holding themselves to the self same standards.
I think illegal is illegal; be it immigration, taking something that does not belong to you, not giving back the extra change that a casher mistakenly gave you, obeying traffic laws; honesty is honesty.
I know in my temple interview I was asked if I was honest in my dealings at work. Hows that fit in with an unregistered worker?

BobP
Port Alice, B.C.

When they come before God to be judged many of the Pharisees i have read here will be told to depart from him ye worker of iniquity.

When the Savior and his Apostles broke the Sabbath to gather and eat a little grain the Pharisees said: "Crucify Him."

Kami
Bountiful, Utah

My church is not going to tell me to support someone who is in this country illegally. PERIOD.

XelaDave
Salem, UT

I love all the AofF quotes and scripture quotes about law and order and then these are the same people that demean the Pres. and others in front of their children show unflattering pictures tell jokes, etc.- so the parts of the AofF and scriptures that apply to the lawas you like are all great but if the Pres. or others comes from a party or whatever that you do not like then you can demean and criticuize and even go as far as teach this in church classes as someone did this last Sunday to my daughter but all of that is OK and it honors and sustains our country- hypocrasy at its best

Cowboy Joe
Encampment, WY

Kami,
Your church is not telling you to support something illegal. The last time I checked it is the church of jesus christ not the church of kami. You still have your agency and can act in the manor you chose.

Timj
South Jordan, UT

I'm always surprised about how many church members on these comments oppose the stance their church takes on the issue. I might not agree with everything every church leader has ever said, but I'm not going to call church leaders as a whole "misguided" or "naive." With so many members disagreeing with the church on this issue, I'm a bit surprised so many stay and complain and so few actually leave.

Wildcat
O-town, UT

Thank heavens there are reasonable people like Dr. Groovey and MormonDem. We must put ourselves in the shoes of the illegals who come over. Most of them are coming over to escape terrible conditions. Given the same situation, we would probably attempt to come over illegally, too. Many people on the anti-illegal immigration issue look at these people with hatred and view them as less than people. We must remember there but the grace of God go I. Sometimes the laws are not good laws: remember the extermination order in Missouri? Yes, we must work to change the laws and uphold the law while treating people with dignity and respect.

Here are some ideas. First, control the border, that is the most important issue. Then, give people a pathway towards citizenship, there are illegals who are in the military or exemplary citizens, they should have the chance to become citizens. If there are criminal records, they can be deported. Crack down on businesses who exploit immigrants for cheap labor.

We should agree with the compassionate stance of the church. We can uphold the law and love our neighbors, too. Hatred, contention, and divisiveness are of the devil.

RichardB
Murray, UT

Does being poor give the person the right to trespass, to steal, lie? Aren't stealing and lying two of the Ten commandments? Will we allow America's poor the same rights? Or are we making excuses to justify lawbreaking?

Those who defend the 12th article of faith fail to notice that the Church wants us to follow the law, and people to immigrate legally, something the lawyer left out, or was edited. Using lawyers that represent business in immigration for the article seems like a very narrow view.

The LDS Church is sitting on the fence with this one. They lean to one side when calling for compassion to the lawbreaker, but nothing to the victims. And asking that families stay together is out of control of them and the government. That ultimately depends on the actions of the family.

We have over a million people each year that come here legally. They are the honest, hard working people.

We are dealing with an attempt to flood our labor markets and destroy our standard of life. Will the Church remain on the fence?

RichardB
Murray, UT

@Wildcat

Most of us don't hate the illegal alien, we resent their illegal actions. Stealing, lying etc have kept many out of the temples, but when they do it, it's OK?

The double standard is difficult to look past. So is the fact that the Churches statement talks about the 12 million here, and our need for compassion to them, yet they supported HB 116 which dealt with those here, and those to come.

Plenty of poor come legally. We ask all to come here legally, to wait their turn and not crowd in line. I see nothing wrong with that.

Many come from Mexico that have the 12th best economy in the world, and who's wages rank in the top 50 in the world. Can we honestly call them poor compared to the rest of the world.

People don't need to leave the Church if they disagree. Not sustaining the leadership was devised for this purpose, and is to be used in situations like this.

Fitness Freak
Salt Lake City, UT

Why are advocates for illegal immigrants so racist?

Or do they believe we should extend the same "hand of friendship" and the accompanying benefits (free education, welfare, food stamps, wic, etc)to ALL the worlds peoples?
Is there a requirement somewhere that one must sneak across the desert for the "freebies"?
Is the offer open to my 20 million Asian friends, 20 million African friends, 20 million Russian friends, etc.?

Should we just keep asking American citizens to provide for WHOMEVER manages to sneak in?

Should we just wait until we too become a third world country?

Maybe then they won't be so interested in coming!

Arm of Orion
Cottonwood Heights, UT

I wish I could say that I am surprised at the way many members of the church are acting right now. Sadly though I am not. They don't seem to understand the whole of the Church's position. In the which they call for the enforcement of current immigration laws and the eventual change of the law seeing that they are terrible. Not only that but these same members continue to judge their brothers, which is also against Church counsel. My friends the issue of their status according to God is not for you to decide nor judge on. For remember the counsel of the Savior, "Judge not lest ye be judged likewise."

Furthermore, the creation of borders and immigration laws are really artificial ways of separating people from each other. Sure there are some reasons to have clearly dfined borders. Mostly for the purpose of geoverning but if people want to move why not allow them to through a decently regulated process.

Most any attorney who deals with immigration tells you the system is broken and the courts and regulators are bogged down with the claims. So I say why not make it easier for people to move?

Wildcat
O-town, UT

@RichardB,

I said many people look to immigrants with hatred. I am not making a blanket statement and saying all or even most, but there is a portion (considerable) that do have hatred towards immigrants.

In my suggestion, I said those that have criminal records (lying and stealing) would be subject to deportation. I think there is a good portion of these immigrants that are exemplary citizens. They serve in our military. They work jobs and pay taxes. These people should have an opportunity to citizenship. Many of them came here with their parents at a young age and through no fault of their own are here illegally. I think more of the blame lies with employers that exploit immigrants for cheap labor and directly hurt our citizens--primarily immigrants who come in legally. These people then appeal to base emotions of others to get themselves out of the spotlight. I agree with you about coming here legally, but if we don't secure the border first--it's a moot point.

I don't think their economy ranking matters to them, just their situation. I support the first presidency--but members are free not to sustain them, should they choose.

RichardB
Murray, UT

@Arm of Orion
The laws (1996) are not broken, they are just not being enforced by the Federal government. They work for those willing to stand in line. We can't take millions of people in each year, so lines are needed. They do need to be distributed more fairly, as 36% of our green cards in the past 10 years have gone to Hispanics. They comprise only 7% of the worlds population. We need to be more fair to Africa and Europe which are shortchanged.

The Churches stand says that the Federal government has the right to control it's borders. Let's not forget, God created the Nations after the Tower of Babel.

So many in and out of the Church look only at the illegal act of immigration, and try to downplay how serious it is. They ignore the identity theft, the loss of jobs and wages, and how it affects our families, the added tax burden, and the impact on people around the world wanting to come here legally. Illegal immigration is all of these things, and they must be included in any discussion.

Flooding the market with illegal labor should not be condoned by anyone.

DaleC
Magna, UT

Today I had 2 trees cut down. The laborers were Hispanic and 3 of 4 did not speak English. I worked along with them for about 2 hours (and I am quite fit) and then I had to stop. I guess some here would say that white people would take those jobs, but I don't believe it - not even at 3 times the wage.

JBrady
Murray, Ut

@Wildcat
They all have to lie and steal to work here. It's against the law to work in the US if someone does not have a work visa or residency card (green card). That's stealing and lying. So is stealing a social security number, persons id, etc.

@DaleC
My husband is "white" and has a landscaping business that includes cutting down trees. He has been in business for 20 years. If a person is in shape, any race can do it. It's the person, not the race.

Wildcat
O-town, UT

@JBrady,

Do you think that children who followed their parents into the country were knowingly breaking the law themselves? If you were in a desparate situation, would you not break the law, i.e. Jean Valjean stealing a loaf of bread when he was starving? I don't know about you, but I really can't answer that question (I just hope I don't face that dire of circumstances that some people do face), but we should try and understand the circumstances if we are truly going to solve the problem.

You have mentioned the criminals (who should face deportation), but what of the immigrants who serve in our military or work jobs and pay taxes? There are positive contributions that are totatly disregarded, and there are jobs that are worked that would not be worked by others.

There are some legal citizens that are more of a drain on society than some illegal immigrants. Is legal slothfulness better than illegals who make a positive contribution? The point is there are millions of immigrants here that we have to deal with, and we should do it in a dignified and respectful way. It is a complex problem and requires a thorough solution.

Mike B
TUCSON, AZ

Our immigration problem is a wonderful problem. Stand back and think for a moment that Mexicans risk death walking through the deserts of our southwest, Cubans risk death on rafts and orientals risk suffocation in containers. Do we ever remember what a wonderful country we have that people are willing to risk so much to be a part of it. Did you ever hear of anyone trying to sneak into Russia or East Germany or Cuba, never. We build fences to keep people out and they built fences to keep their people in. Let us not forget how blessed we are.

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