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Comments about ‘FAIR: Mormon immigration policy considered at conference’

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Published: Sunday, Aug. 14 2011 10:13 p.m. MDT

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tom2
Jerome, ID

All of you self-righteous people that cannot understand how a temple recommend can be given to an undocumented alien, ask yourself how many laws YOU have broken today. How many times did your speedometer creep even one tick above the posted limit? How many times did you half-way stop at a stop sign? Those are the easy examples, but there are more. Ever drive with a loaded firearm? Ever help a friend bring down their deer? Ever burned your favorite song from a friends CD or MP3 file? Did you turn yourself in for any of those crimes? Did you confess to your Bishop? How did you answer the question about being honest in your dealings with your fellow men?

He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone. Where are those thine accusers?

tom2
Jerome, ID

Snowman: What part of 'inalienable' don't you understand? Read the Declaration. When it was written there were no U.S. citizens because there was no U.S.

RRB
SLC, UT

There is walls with restricted access around the Temple grounds in Salt Lake. They also restrict access to their property, and remove people not following their rules.

But the US cannot do the same because it's not compassionate?

The Churches principles on immigration are to love they neighbor. If a parent does not prepare their child once in a while with punishment, are they loving their child? We are all better off when everyone plays on a level field, and follows the laws.

And keeping families together is the US current policy. The children return with their parents. Just like US servicemen overseas who take family, the children move with the parents.

Business immigration lawyers interpreting the Churches statements will always try to put a pro-illegal, pro-business spin on it.

But in the end, we are in a long tern recession, and with 9% unemployment that's lasted for years, we don't need more workers. Especially those who break the law and crowd in line to get here. Let's be honest, and set an example for our children. Enforce the laws. Utah could be using E-verify and pulling business licenses right now.

Michael De Groote

SLars | 5:15 a.m. asked, "Is this the Michael De Groote that is Director of Communication and Marketing at Salt Lake Chamber of Commerce?"

Marty Carpenter is the current director of communication and marketing at the Salt Lake Chamber. I was in that position for seven years before I began working at the Deseret News in 2008.

Fred Vader
Oklahoma City, OK

tom2 asks how many laws have each of us broken today, and then asks if any have confessed those to the bishop...hmmm, what do you think would happen tom2? Think the bishop would still give them a temple recommend if they confessed to knowingly violating copyright laws, and then also admitted that they had no intention of stopping, because they don't believe the law is just? No, my guess is you wouldn't get that recommend.

That is my main issue with this article. Folks are being allowed to be completely dishonest in their daily lives, even when they have no intention of stopping. The church has a nice little lesson in the "Gospel Principles" manual entitled "Honesty", wherein we are taught that "complete honesty is necessary for salvation", but that only seems to apply to everyone except illegal immigrants.

Incite Full
Layton, UT

There are more interesting aspects of this issue that I wish FAIR would address. In particular the prophecies relating to the "Promised Land" and the remnants of the House of Israel--and just why the church may not want to disregard the needs of many of its members in South America. From a prophetic sense, the Book of Mormon talks of a remnant of the house of Israel going about the gentiles like a young lion among sheep. There are specific warnings to the gentiles when they disregard Christ and abandon Him. I see many of these social ailments making our country weak, and this remnant of the House of Israel coming into our lands to "take" our jobs is only evidence of a people willing to work harder than we are. But then my studies are not nearly as complete or exhaustive as FAIR might do... it'd be interesting--at least from that perspective to hear them discuss this angle of the issue as it relates to what's happening to global populations and America (a promised land to the gentiles and the remnant of Israel).

marcamus
goochland, va

So when J.S. avoided prosecution from unjust laws, when the Mormons in Missouri chose not to comply with the extermination order, when Christ chose not to follow outdated Mosaic law (by healing on the Sabbath or even by not casting the stone) were they ignoring the 12th article of faith. Should we condemn them in the same fashion many here suggest by condeming those without status and withholding baptismal and temple blessings. The overarching laws are to love God and love thy neighbor. If you read the church policy closely it stops at undocumented status. Those in undocumented status who are also violating other substantial laws such as fraud would be subject to increased scrutiny. The overarching theme is that the Gospel is open to everyone and we should be very careful to judge personal motivations and worthiness. If a judge of Israel declares a person worthy to enter the temple, who am I to declare that an entire group should be disallowed. The simple words of "Follow the Prophet" come to mind. Sound advice.

Ernest T. Bass
Bountiful, UT

Good thing Mexico didn't kick us out in 1847.

Tom
Cottonwood Heights, UT

When an undocumented individual goes for a temple recommend they can be completely honest. You can tell your Bishop and Stake President that you are undocumented and be perfectly honest about it and still receive a recommend. The Church see being in an undocumented status in the U.S. just as our laws state they are, it is a civil infraction comparable to speeding. I have family members that are undocumented and I am breaking the law by having them in my home and transporting them in my car. My Stake President is aware and I have a recommend. What people do besides being undocumented may have an effect on their worthiness but just being undocumented does not. These individules are some of the finest Christians I know.

bebot
SHAWNEE MISSION, KS

From a church standpoint I dont think people should feel guilty or wrong for being here illegally. I don't feel like I'm spirtually deprived when I drive 80 in a 65 nor do I when I shoot off fire crackers in my back yard. Laws are laws and commandments are commandments don't intertwine them. As great as america is it is far from the god guided land it once was. Laws, taxes, and regulations have become so overwhelming that it's almost impossible to not be doing something wrong at any given time. The red tape involved is ridiculous. Government needs to be simplified, make basic laws for everyone and enforce them equally. I can't download a free app from iTunes without agreeing to 25 pages of fine print, I can only imagine how hard it is to get legal documentation.

USAlover
Salt Lake City, UT

Just got home from London. Talked to hundreds of Londoners. The riots are being perpetuated mostly by immigrants who have been sustained and supported through entitlements. Now that the government is cutting those entitlements, the immigrant population is revolting.

Let them come legally, pay taxes and assimilate. We are currently conditioning an entire generation of immigrants that food, health care and housing is FREE in America.

Riles
Midway, UT

If you don't like illegal immigration, don't scapegoat the desperate people taking action to save their lives, work to change the socio-political climate that attracts them: free healthcare, food stamps, housing assistance, minimum wage laws, etc. If those welfare programs were abolished they wouldn't make the herculean effort to come here for a "maybe".

Bill in Nebraska
Maryville, MO

To USALover and others: Really most of the illegal immigrants to this country have jobs that most of the rest of won't do or take. They are farm laborers who work at digging potatoes, picking fruit and vegetables, working in the meat packing plants and other areas of minial labor. They work next to nothing, lower than minimum wage and employers get by with it because they are illegal. These people can't go to the labor department and complain or anything because they would be deported. Some are drug dealers and murders but the majority are not. My question when posed by and large most though that the ten were all hispanic. Really, that in and of itself is racism. You are profiling people which many people do. What would you do if you found out most were here because their visas expired and they have no way to get home. Some of the illegals are because they failed to renew their student visas.

As far as I know no one on this board is a Bishop/Branch President or Stake/District President. Therefore, as a member of the LDS Church what gives you the right to judge them.

tom2
Jerome, ID

FredVader: Have you ever been to a temple recommend interview? I guarantee if you told the Bishop that you were not perfect, he would take it as a obvious attempt at levity. No one is perfect and if you think you have to obey the speed limit to obtain a recommend, you don't understand the process.

Often in interviews I have discussed some philosophical points like this. One of the questions involves keeping the law of chastity. Christ said 'whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.' You ever had any dirty thoughts? I suppose by a strict reading of the law, you would be unworthy to enter the temple - if perfection were required. It is not. No one would ever be allowed to go to the temple if it were.

The sin of being an undocumented alien has been determined by the approving authority to be as significant as the sin of speeding or of having the occasional unworthy thought in regards to recommends.

They have asked that we consider compassion in our debate over immigration. Christ repeatedly asked the same of us. Was He was wrong, too?

TheProudDuck
Newport Beach, CA

"Really most of the illegal immigrants to this country have jobs that most of the rest of won't do or take. They are farm laborers who work at digging potatoes, picking fruit and vegetables, working in the meat packing plants and other areas of minial labor."

Who picked the fruit before large-scale illegal immigration began in the late sixties and seventies?

Cesar Chavez was (most liberals don't know this) strongly against illegal immigration -- even going so far as to tip off la migra that non-union laborers were illegal workers. He understood that you can't possibly raise wages for low-skill workers, when there's an endless supply of new low-skill workers coming in from the south.

There is no such thing as "jobs Americans won't do" if the price is right. More precisely, "if the price hasn't been lowered into the weeds by an oversupply of imported labor."

Jeff
Temple City, CA

My ancestors came to America without documentation. In some cases, the current immigration laws were made to restrict access of such people (Mormons) to America. While it is easy for me, an American Mormon, to say that I would follow the 12th Article of Faith and refrain from entering another country illegally, it is very hard for me to consider others to be hardened lawbreakers because they have tried to come to a better place.

The US process of immigration makes it practically impossible for some to come to America. There are requirements of liquidable assets or guaranteed income that are extremely difficult for impoverished people to acquire. If my family were starving or suffering from dangerous social unrest, I would not worry in the least about the entrance laws of a safe haven; I would rather risk deportation than watching my children starve or be killed by drug cartels.

I personally know hundreds, maybe thousands of illegal immigrants. Few of them fit the profiles mentioned here of lazy, cynical people coming to America to live like parasites off our plenty. The Latter-day Saints among them are all good people in a terrible situation.

DCMaughan
Grantsville, Utah

My view and 50+years as a member of the LDS church; adulterer, fornicator, wife beater, child abuser, porn addict, one who disregards speed and traffic laws, petty thief, illegal emigrant who of these is more worthy of a Temple recommend and why?

lds4gaymarriage
Salt Lake City, UT

I think it's funny that some likened this issue to the Prop.8 issue. Many felt that the Church's stand violated scriptural commands about people using their religious beliefs to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others (D&C 134:4, 1 Cor. 10:29). gays DID have the right/liberty to marry in CA prior to prop.8 hence many felt that infringing upon that right/liberty violated scripture.

Now people feel that the Church is violating it's own scripture regarding the law in reference to immigration.

Some people could get the impression that the Church feels free to ignore scripture if doing so promotes a theocratic vision that Church may have regarding how society should be. Thoughts?

DrGroovey
Salt Lake City, UT

Why do some members place the 12th AOF above the Second great commandment?

carminaburana
Provo, UT

My two cents, We are quick to judge "illegals" and if you look around you find a lot of "legals" who are no better Christians or sometimes even worse inside the church I won't mention the name or my comment won't be published. "judge not"

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