Comments about ‘FAIR: Mormon immigration policy considered at conference’

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Published: Sunday, Aug. 14 2011 10:13 p.m. MDT

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Diligent Dave
Logan, UT

@Ignorance is NOT Bliss

What I am saying is what I said. Whose land is this to give?

And if you are a member of the (LDS) Church, then I hope you read more than just the last part of The Pearl of Great Price. I hope that you especially read The Book of Mormon.

The prophecy of a "remnant of Jacob" was given by Christ three times while he was among the remnant of Nephites and Lamanites who were left, after God had used the elements (volcanoes, hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, mudslides, etc) to kill off the less worthy descendants of Israel.

3 Nephi 21:12 & 13 are fairly illstrative.

And, BTW, do you assume that "illegal immigrants" take more than they give? I wot not. Did you know, for example, that without them the US would have been in the economic depression it is now entering into long ago? The Census Bureau's figures indicate that Caucasians in the US have had sub-replacement fertility rates since the early 1970's. You cannot grow an economy without growing population. Illegals have helped save this country from economic depression. They buy homes, cars, etc when & where allowed.

Diligent Dave
Logan, UT

@Ignorance is NOT Bliss

What I am saying is what I said. Whose land is this to give?

And if you are a member of the (LDS) Church, then I hope you read more than just the last part of The Pearl of Great Price. I hope that you especially read The Book of Mormon.

The prophecy of a "remnant of Jacob" was given by Christ three times while he was among the remnant of Nephites and Lamanites who were left, after God had used the elements (volcanoes, hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, mudslides, etc) to kill off the less worthy descendants of Israel.

3 Nephi 21:12 & 13 are fairly illstrative.

And, BTW, do you assume that "illegal immigrants" take more than they give? I wot not. Did you know, for example, that without them the US would have been in the economic depression it is now entering into long ago? The Census Bureau's figures indicate that Caucasians in the US have had sub-replacement fertility rates since the early 1970's. You cannot grow an economy without growing population. Illegals have helped save this country from economic depression. They buy homes, cars, etc when & where allowed.

RRB
SLC, UT

Coming here illegally is a misdemeanor and civil crime. It's punishment is deportation plus a fine and jail time. Usually the fine and jail time are ignored, that's compassion. Returning here is a felony after deportation. Working here illegally, lying on the 1-9, stolen ID's using false documentation to work are all felonies. As is hiring a person here illegally.

It's not a stone, it's a large rock that grows into a mountain as more crimes come from the initial act.

No compassion for the legal immigrant who gets his job stolen, no compassion for the person who has his wages lowered, no compassion for the higher taxes to subsidize business and their illegal labor, no compassion for those who have their id's stolen, no compassion for the businessman who has to compete with the dishonest businessman, no compassion for those waiting in other lands to come here.

And no calls for compassion for this countries poor who face stiff budget cuts. None. They are all being ignored.

This is a struggle between business and labor that threatens this nations sovereignty. And some in the Church have taken sides with business.

Common-Tator
Saint Paul, MN

Interesting comments on many sides. I definitely concur with the thoughts that one must work to change laws if inappropriate, but in the interim, must live by and sustain those in effect. To do otherwise invites the accurate label of hypocrisy.

During WW2, LDS church leaders asked members of aggressive states to work within their capability to change policy and laws that were clearly wrong but to still support the laws of their nation, even when it caused them to fight against (and potentially kill) brothers of other nations.

As for temple recommends, there is a question that asks if one is honest in all their doings. It is difficult to reconcile honesty when one is knowingly living outside established law. If one believes this law is wrong, and hence one is honest when not abiding by it, it certainly and legitimately opens the question, Which other laws are wrong, and thus I should not obey?

My guess is, none of us want to go there.

For me love is perhaps more about consistency, than in selecting which laws one will not support, and calling that "love".

Kathleen3
WARMINSTER, PA

There is nothing more repugnant than hiding behind the mantle of God or religion in order to achieve sinister goals. What other laws would the Mormons like us to violate in order to fill their temples?

Unfortunately, the position of the Mormons on illegal immigration accounts for the reason many voters will not consider Romney, Huntsman, or any other candidate with Mormon ties for any high office. Contrary to what many would like us to believe, eliminating candidates has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with the position on illegal aliens by those who practice this religion.

I M LDS 2
Provo, UT

Diligent Dave,

You "wot not"?

Seriously?

32843
PROVO, UT

crivas | 1:33 a.m. Aug. 15, 2011
LOGAN, UT
There seems to be a lot of hypocrisy around here in Utah. Do you guys remember that the LDS Pioneers moved illegally to Mexico when nobody else would accept them. Utah belonged to Mexico when Brigham Young and the other pioneers moved in. I am LDS, a legal immigrant and I love Utah, but I hate when I see people pretending to be all righteous when in fact they only see their limited perspective. Guys, please love each other

crivas, please point us all to Mexico's 1840-1865 immigration laws that support your thoughts that LDS Pioneers broke Mexican immigration law.

D Jamieson
Raymond, AB

We believe in the Ten Commandments including Thou shalt not kill but we go to war.

Ignorance is NOT Bliss
Glendora, CA

@Diligent Dave I think you are completely missing my point. Regardless of what revelation was given in the Book of Mormon, this country is still the United States of America with borders and laws governing them, and we are still a church that does have and is supposed to live by the 12th Article of Faith. Show me the gray area or what makes it right to dismiss it, please. I do feel for the people that want to come to the greatest country on earth to provide for their families and give them a better life, but not at the expense of the actual tax paying citizens of this country. You can throw out all the numbers you want about the illegals saving us from an earlier recession, but I live in Ca., where our budget takes a hit in the billions simply paying for birthing the anchor babies and then paying them all the wonderful entitlements that have been enacted. There is NO WAY they are contributing as much as they are costing us. The casting stones quote is cute, but doesn't apply when taking into consideration our A of F.

eh
TANACROSS, AK

I believe Polygamy was deemed illegal and yet was continued to be practiced by high ranking members of the LDS church. That said, having seen what life is like south of the border, it's hard to imagine any charitable person finding objection to someone trying to make a better life for themselves by coming to the U.S. Maybe I'm missing some of the points, but I don't think I'm the only one.

E

JayTee
Sandy, UT

There's nothing irrational, irresponsible, or mean-spirited about wanting your homeland to maintain its sanity and solvency. I only wish that those who want to give everything to the entire third world population were the only ones paying for it. But unfortunately, we all have to pay . . . even those who don't adhere to any particular religious doctrine.

whatnext
Clearfield, Utah

I think all of us can see that this issue has strong opions on both sides on how illeagal imagrints should be treated and considered. One individual used the example of the women caught in adultrey and was brought before Jesus. That individual pointed out that the women was told to go and sin no more, but he left out one important part this example. Those individuals who brought her before the Savior reminded Jesus what the law of Moses required when someone was caught in adultry and that was to stone them to death. At the insistance of the Pharaises and Scribe they demand Jesus tell them what they should do. Jesus said, "he who is without sin let him cast the first stone." I know of only one person who has never done anything wrong, committed a sin, or a crime and that is Jesus. If he being the only perfect person on this earth can show compassion toward another who had broken the law, then how much more should we. We may consider them illegals but they are still children of our Heavenly Father and deserve to be treated as such.

DaleC
Magna, UT

Who can doubt that 3 Nephi 22 (which is a quote of Isaiah 53) is a comfort to our Lamanite brethren for the shameful way in which they are sometimes treated by people in our community and even fellow members of their church? It ends with this solemn warning: 15 Behold, they shall surely gather together against thee, not by me; whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake.

Has the time come to separate the sheep from the goats? Who's on the Lord's side who? And who are the goats? I think 2 Nephi 6 makes that pretty clear where in verse 13 the Lord says that those who persecute fellow saints will someday bow down and eat the dust from their feet they will be so ashamed. There are also some words there about who are members of the great and abominable church. Sorry for the strong words, but if you want to fight against the Lord, you may as well do it with full knowledge.

I M LDS 2
Provo, UT

DaleC,

I find your interpretation of scripture "wrestful" and your comment completely inappropriate and out of line.

A Guy With A Brain
Enid, OK

True, there is no question in a temple recommend interview about "are you here in this country illegally" but there IS a question that asks if the individual is, and I quote: "deal(ing) honestly with your fellow man."

Liberals, and even liberals in the LDS church, can spin it any way they want, but there's no way you can honestly say you're being honest with your fellow man when you're breaking your neighbor's laws by being here illegally every day.

Maggie
Saint George, UT

This article would make sense if all who cross the border illegally did indeed have in mind a better life for themselves and family,meant no harm to this country and would be willing to learn to care for themselves.
I am Roman Catholic and my Church also came out in support of Utahs Guestworker program. Priests routinely counsel lawbreakers to surrender to the law and deal with their punishment.I am not new to a religion that asks one to keep your heart open and obey worldly laws.I have always tried to do so. However,I can tell you the nuns did not take lightly to crowding in line at lunch time no matter how hungry you might be or showing any side of greed. They did however always encourage sharing and kindness. They could turn on a dime in their determination of which was which. I am thinking perhaps some folks either never had the opportunity of this lesson ,forgot it or no longer care.

A Guy With A Brain
Enid, OK

I've given this a lot of thought and it makes sense to me that:

- we should close the border with appropriate/adequate fencing and enforce it with armed guards

- illegal aliens > 18 should be made to pay fines for breaking immigration laws; the longer they've been here illegally the larger the fine should be

- illegals should pay any/all applicable state and federal back-taxes they may owe

- English should be the ONLY language allowed in any/all government transactions and business forums (language either binds us together or allows us to fall apart)

- immigrants should sign legal documentation stating they will always fly the American flag properly if they wish to fly the flag (no more of this upside down and below Mexican flags like in that one CA high school)

- any illegal caught cheating on the fines or mandatory language tests will be apprehended and deported. No exceptions.

- children of illegals born in the U.S. must be determined as illegals too, so yes, the 14th amendment must be viewed again in its original intention

- if they'll do all this, they can stay, but they will never be granted the privilege of voting (

TheProudDuck
Newport Beach, CA

Diligent Dave,

"You cannot grow an economy without growing population."

Sure you can. You accumulate capital, which makes each member of the population more productive. The result is greater output, even with the same number of workers.

I am far from convinced that importing millions of low-skill workers into an economy where there is increasingly little need for low-skill workers (now that hundreds of millions of low-skilled Chinese and Indians have shown up to the global economic party). At some point, global population growth is going to level off, one way or the other. It's even happened in Mexico; as societies modernize away from subsistence agriculture, children change profit centers to overhead, and women have fewer of them. Societies like Japan which figure out how to cope with this shift (without doubling down on the problem by importing bodies from less-developed societies) may be ahead of the game here. Reliance on low-skilled immigrants to keep economic growth rolling just postpones things, and may make us less able than Japan to cope with the inevitable. You'll notice that Japanese don't riot when the economy hits a bump.

Maggie
Saint George, UT

In the LDS faith,where do the 10 Commandments fall.Ahead of any church teachings or guidelines or after the teachings of bible verses or prophets teachings.
Commandments 8,9,10 make it pretty simple for most of us. The Bible verses that encourage good works and care for others in need in no way encourage the 10 Commandments to be ignored just because our churches have decided to advocate social justice before Gods law. Surely there is not one educated person who believes man can live on earth fairly and orderly with out laws. When we start picking and choosing which laws to ignore,expect the end of that society to be close at hand.

snowman
Provo, UT

tobiwan: Those inalienable rights that you ae talking about are for U S citizens alone and not those who are here illegally. They have no rights here.

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